transformyself

Got this from another thread and it's always confused me.

I stood up to my AH when he started verbally abusing me. That put a stop to it. All though he still had a mad temper at times, if he starts yelling, I say, I'm hanging up now," or get away from him immediatly, so those incidents dont' happen often.

Does this mean he can "learn," or that I"ve taught him my boundaries?

This is a quote from the other thread. Thank you keepinon:

Here's where my confusion comes in, and I hope some of you folks with training can answer the question:

Why can't other women do what I did? is it truly dangerous to create a boundary? To stand up for yourself? I did it with a plan, slept with my phone for a week, had my important papers ready to go and an overnight bag, but I stood up to that emeffer.

AFter I called the dv hotline and the lady told me I had lost my boundary somewhere along the way, that's why he could threaten me, I stood up for myself. I told him, "you will never speak to me this way again or I'm calling the police" Sure it took a while before he believed me, but he would raise his voice and I would stand up and say, "don't talk to me this way!" or something like that. Eventually he stopped, when I moved out, that put an end to it.

Why wasn't I killed? Why didn't my standing up to him escalate the situation, instead of de-escalate it?

I'm not implying in any way that these other women are not in danger, or that there aren't totally psycho men out there that would kill women, it's happened to my friends, I know there are.

I think perhaps my situation was one where my AH isn't one of those guys, just a drunk who I allowed to cross my boundaries. I wasn't strong when this was happening, I was crying all the time, depressed, and he was still talking to his affair partner and lying to me. I was beaten, until that domestic violence worker told me I had lost my boundaries. I don't blame myself, or the other women who are in this position.

I will add that she responded in that way after I asked, "How did this get this way? Normally I'm so strong."

ok, after that long rant, here are my questions:

why did standing up to and creating boundaries with my AH de-escalate his abusive behavior, when we're told it could get us killed?

Thanks!

transformyself

I need to add, too and can't believe I left this out, that my sister just left her abusive husband who has hit her and is a very scary guy, very controlling and manipulative. She enforced boundaries, told him she wouldn't talk to him in person, just texts and email and moved out with their son.

That stopped the behavior, all though she is still afraid he'll snap and come over to her place. She sleeps with her phone too.

Maybe the difference is my husband was never physically violent with me?

1lastchance

its the difference in the person some get more violent than others and some are just plain dangerous. I watched my sister go through this. the man she married when she found herself 18 and pregnant was the most evil person I ever had the misfortune to know one minute he was a great guy the next he was plain evil. they were only together a year and I saw him rip her hair out,drag her behind his car at 7 months pregnant and break her jaw I was only 12 and helpless to do anything about it but I knew he was going to kill her sooner or later this man needed no provocation at all. then when my nephew was born the baby was only 2 months old and he pulled this sob's beard and he threw his own infant son on the floor thank god he didn't hurt him but I never heard a baby scream like that and I never want to hear it again. we found our way out after that stole the car when he was gone moved out of state and never looked back it was scary an infant a 12 year old and an 18 year old with nowhere to go but staying would have been much worse. a year later the sob put a gun in his mouth I'm sure he is burning in hell to this day I hope. I think if someone shows those type of tendencies get out asap from all I have witnessed it will only escalate.

tjp613

Well, I'm sure you realize that it's not a black and white situation so there is no easy answer to your question. Your actions could have very easily prompted an escalation and in most other cases probably would have.

Classic abusers expect their partners to literally serve their needs, in every sense of the word. When the partner starts enforcing boundaries...or even verbalizing their own wants and needs....they are usually subjecting themselves to further domination. That domination takes many forms, as you know. Over the months and years, the partner's sense of self-worth becomes non-existent creating a vortex of domination and submission that is very difficult to climb out of.

Why did your AH back down? Who knows. You probably just got real lucky.

PieRat

Wow good topic.

Only thing I can think of Transform is that he has an ounce of smarts somewhere in him, though it might be hard to believe. He knew NOT to take it past a certain point maybe, or could it also just possibly be that you got out of the situation before it could have escalated to something more?

I am glad to see some shelters recognize other forms of abuse other than just physical.

Jenny1232

I agree this doesn't have much to do with the woman, as it does with the severity of the man. The abuser may have never even been physically violent before, and standing up to him could prompt him to do so. I've read some books on abuse - and it seems to be that, rarely, VERY rarely, does the abuser ever change. He usually gets worse before, and if, it ever gets better; and change requires INTENSIVE work and therapy.

I think it's rather dangerous for every woman to simply, stand up. Men are very strong... and if you're dealing with an abusive man, he will hurt you. It's my opinion, you just got luck as tjp says...

Still Waters

There are many more things involved than one spouse yelling at another.

In my case, my AH frequently carries a gun. Though he is licensed for concealed carry in another state, and the state he lives in doesn't allow concealed carry, he does it anyway. Not to mention lying on the application about being a habitual drunkard. That adds an element of fear.

In my case my AH completely controlled the finances. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to make it where I was going with no money....and that he could track me.

There were many other things, which when put together made standing up for myself scary. And truly, I don't know which boundary I would have stood up for! The whole situation was insane.

PieRat

By the way hugs to you gals, for the crap some of ya'll go thru.

Still Waters

Had I known then, what I know now....

It's easy to say to myself "you allowed it to happen", but really I had no idea how sick he was. And, it wasn't until much later that I discovered that a great deal of his past was made up. Lies that he has told himself and others for so long he probably believes them.

PieRat

you gals can add some kung fu, kung pao, general tso's monkey form karate skills to all that yoga you do, and if need be go all out kill bill on any fool who would be insane enough to mess with you.

Not sayin'....just sayin.

Still Waters

Well, I should add, when you have a child involved it greatly adds to the fear factor. Alcoholics are unpredictable. Add in whatever is wrong with my AH mentally and you really have a scarily unpredictable situation.

My overwhelming need was to get her safely away from him.

PieRat

hehehehe. I know. Just wanting to lighten the mood a little.

tigger11

Oh Still - you hit the nail on the head! So much of my STBXAH's past was fabricated, I don't know to this day what's truth and what's lies. Right down to the year of his birth. Some documents have it one year, other's have it another.

A person's abusive tendencies are so unpredictable. Add alcohol and/or drugs to the mix, and you have tremendous volatility. Still, after 8 months of no contact, I scan the environment everywhere I go checking for a car or person in an unusual place and with unusual behavior, and am ever ready to "hit the dirt".

So he never physically abused me. But he was constantly angry at made up things, he displayed and professed a love for guns, and beat my dog. I wasn't going to take any more chances then, and I'm not going to now.

NoelleR

"...Why wasn't I killed? Why didn't my standing up to him escalate the situation, instead of de-escalate it?
I'm not implying in any way that these other women are not in danger, or that there aren't totally psycho men out there that would kill women, it's happened to my friends, I know there are.
I think perhaps my situation was one where my AH isn't one of those guys, just a drunk who I allowed to cross my boundaries..."

A couple of others here have hit on it, but as I see it, I believe you answered your own question.....

I see two different sorts here.....: the alcoholic/addict who uses abusive tactics as a way to control his/her significant other so that he/she can continue to drink/use; and then there's the straight-up abuser--always gotta be in control, always right, nobody else has any say; nobody gets in his/her way; and nobody leaves him/her; etc.; etc.; etc......

Of course, these are just my opinions, and I could be entirely wrong.....who know, just glad you, transform, and all others, made it out alive.


(o:
NoelleR

keepinon

I hope I didn't give the impression that people shouldn't set boundaries, because they should. Problem is, when it gets to a certain point, you can't tell who is gonna back down and who is gonna snap like a dry twig. When a woman leaves she is in the most danger because she has now said "no" and has taken the control. This is the abusers worst fear and why even if there was no violence before it often escalates at this point.
There are certain characteristics that can somewhat predict deadly violence... owning weapons, abuse to animals, suicidal threats, history af drug/alcohol abuse, mental health issues, etc. Obviously not everyone who leaves an abusive relationship will be killed. BUT, as many of the posters here have spoken of, there can be lots of stalking behavior, threats,etc. that are terrifying. Cannot say why your abuser stopped. Not very common. At the shelter we often saw multiple victims from the SAME guy.
Great thread!

cmc

There's no making sense to what any person might or might not do. It's out of my control- the only person I have control over is myself. I learned in Al-Anon to place a greater value on myself....my own safety & serenity- which begins with learning what I can change and what I can't. (aka the Serenity Prayer)

Any perception of abuse is a gift- just like bodily pain is a warning that something is wrong & needs attention.

I had a relative who commited a murder/suicide without warning or any signs of such a thing happening. How much more of a risk is there when the behaviors are evident?

Although I'm not a victim myself; in my own journey of recovery I've learned to become aware, to accept and take action once I see that any situation that is not safe or right for me or my family.

There's a very well known case of a woman who was once on Oprah's show---her husband shot her. She endured mental, verbal and emotional abuse for many years yet stated that she was not afraid of him because he had never hit her.

I would never suggest that an abused person just leave...there are professional who can assist in this most delicate and dangerous action. Fortunately, there are plenty of shelters and counselors who are trained for this specific need.

For those who haven't looked at the sticky threads on abuse in this forum...I recommend taking some time to read up on the subject.

keepinon

I would also like to add that much like with sexual assault..if you lived through your assault or abuse, then you did the right thing. People's instincts can help them survive...transform felt good about saying "no" directly to her abuser and that worked. In another instance, that could have ended in a very different way. Fighting back can save you or get you killed depending on your attacker.There is no cookie cutter way to deal with an abuser.

greebobeebo

My stbxh was verbally abusive. When we moved house I decided that as it was to be a new start I would reassert my boundaries, I stood up to him and started arguing back.Unfortunately it slightly backfired, he started bullying the kids.

It took me a year after that to finally move out. I tried to have a relationship with him, but he was still controlling and nasty to the boys. So I told him to leave us completely alone.

I have not heard from him for 23 weeks now.

I forgot to say that he has had me backed into a corner, and has threatened me. he said he would rather see me dead than I have the house.

wanting

My H was verbally and emotionally abusive, but I think he got way more glee out of seeing me lose control than he ever would have out of losing control himself. I screamed at him 2 different times in front of our friends, and it was always something he held over my head, like, "Well, I drink, but I don't lose control over myself." He would just do all these subtly emotionally abusive things and love it if I'd explode. He could control me easily that way.

Maybe sometimes people are simply not willing to be violent because of how they need to see themselves, but they do their controlling in other, more subtle ways. I mean, you stood up to him and he didn't beat you, but he didn't turn into a prince, right? He'd either have to find subtler ways of control or find someone else.

tjp613

I've got a good one for you... my abuser would get sexually excited when he saw me crying. Nice, huh?