Something I remembered
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Something I remembered
Hello!!!
Last night as I was writing about my recovery, I was remembering how I lost the ability to be warm towards my stbxah. I have to admit I was disgusted with all the drinking after a while. And I was disgusted with the things he said to me while he drank that the next day he denied saying them and accused me of making them up. Right. I got ssooo much satifaction to sit there and make up these stories for no reason (sarcastic).
He started going to a therapist a few years ago as per my recommendation. What he got out of that was he was unhappy in the marriage and that I was "rough around the edges because I was European" as per his therapist. I took offense to that. I am European. I was raised here though. I have worked in the New York City corporate world for 11 years and I would like to think I am more refined than anything. I was just tired of his **** and wasnt sweet Lulu to him anymore. I dont know what this person who I never met was thinking but I was offended that she stereotyped. This is also the same therapist who discouraged my stbxah from going to AA as she didnt think he would do well there. And after he said he would go offered to go WITH HIM. Sorry I saw something wrong with that.
But anyways, I dont consider myself rough around the edges and yes I became cold hearted to him a long time ago. I also know it was a way I protected myself from the alcoholism and verbal abuse. These days I am slowly making peace with the verbal abuse that he liked to say was for my own good and he was just trying to make me a better person.
Thanks for listening. I had to get that out.
Hugs
Lulu
Last night as I was writing about my recovery, I was remembering how I lost the ability to be warm towards my stbxah. I have to admit I was disgusted with all the drinking after a while. And I was disgusted with the things he said to me while he drank that the next day he denied saying them and accused me of making them up. Right. I got ssooo much satifaction to sit there and make up these stories for no reason (sarcastic).
He started going to a therapist a few years ago as per my recommendation. What he got out of that was he was unhappy in the marriage and that I was "rough around the edges because I was European" as per his therapist. I took offense to that. I am European. I was raised here though. I have worked in the New York City corporate world for 11 years and I would like to think I am more refined than anything. I was just tired of his **** and wasnt sweet Lulu to him anymore. I dont know what this person who I never met was thinking but I was offended that she stereotyped. This is also the same therapist who discouraged my stbxah from going to AA as she didnt think he would do well there. And after he said he would go offered to go WITH HIM. Sorry I saw something wrong with that.
But anyways, I dont consider myself rough around the edges and yes I became cold hearted to him a long time ago. I also know it was a way I protected myself from the alcoholism and verbal abuse. These days I am slowly making peace with the verbal abuse that he liked to say was for my own good and he was just trying to make me a better person.
Thanks for listening. I had to get that out.
Hugs
Lulu
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(((Lulu)))
I completely understand the self-protection and putting our walls up when around active alcoholism.
It took a long time into recovery before I was able to start letting my soft side show again.
You are doing great, lady!
I completely understand the self-protection and putting our walls up when around active alcoholism.
It took a long time into recovery before I was able to start letting my soft side show again.
You are doing great, lady!
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
You're probably only getting his side of the conversation with the therapist, and I would discount all of it. Besides, other peoples opinion of me is their business, not mine. And you know what they say about opinions right? I know me. I've known me for a long time. As a matter of fact nobody knows me better than me and the only opinion of me that counts is mine.
European huh? Well in my opinion I happen to think that's a huge turn on.
How you doin
[/Joey]
See my point?
European huh? Well in my opinion I happen to think that's a huge turn on.
How you doin
[/Joey]
See my point?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,322
European huh? Well in my opinion I happen to think that's a huge turn on.
How you doin
[/Joey]
See my point?
Heh, heh, heh. That was perfect. And for the record, Lulu, I also think you are doing wonderful. Good work, sister. Keep the focus on you, and what works for YOU.
How you doin
[/Joey]
See my point?
Heh, heh, heh. That was perfect. And for the record, Lulu, I also think you are doing wonderful. Good work, sister. Keep the focus on you, and what works for YOU.
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Originally Posted by Jazzman 
You're probably only getting his side of the conversation with the therapist, and I would discount all of it. Besides, other peoples opinion of me is their business, not mine. And you know what they say about opinions right? I know me. I've known me for a long time. As a matter of fact nobody knows me better than me and the only opinion of me that counts is mine.
European huh? Well in my opinion I happen to think that's a huge turn on.
How you doin
[/Joey]
See my point?
European huh? Well in my opinion I happen to think that's a huge turn on.
How you doin
[/Joey]
See my point?
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And you are right. Back then I didnt know about all and I mean all the lies he was dishing out. This probably fits into that pattern.
I dont understand why they lie about the stupid things. For example he told the people he works with his parents live at the shore....his parents died when he was 8. I am talking to his coworkers at the wake of his grandmother and they all want to know whch ones are his parents. I told the truth. They died when he was 8 but what was the point? Embarrased cause your parents died? There were so many of these examples of lieing for no reason like finishing his degree. I was at his graduation..10 years later he tells me he has one class left to finish. Ok then. We had 10 years to discuss that and the only reason he told me is because the FBI was questioning him. He still to this day goes to work with his wedding band on and pretends he is with me and married. Then goes home to his mistress. I couldnt ever live that way. How does one keep the lies straight? Especially the silly unnecessary ones. Oy oy oy.
I dont understand why they lie about the stupid things. For example he told the people he works with his parents live at the shore....his parents died when he was 8. I am talking to his coworkers at the wake of his grandmother and they all want to know whch ones are his parents. I told the truth. They died when he was 8 but what was the point? Embarrased cause your parents died? There were so many of these examples of lieing for no reason like finishing his degree. I was at his graduation..10 years later he tells me he has one class left to finish. Ok then. We had 10 years to discuss that and the only reason he told me is because the FBI was questioning him. He still to this day goes to work with his wedding band on and pretends he is with me and married. Then goes home to his mistress. I couldnt ever live that way. How does one keep the lies straight? Especially the silly unnecessary ones. Oy oy oy.
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I used to wonder about my XABF's nonsensical lies. He used to come home and tell me, if so-and-so asks you about the fill-in-the-blank back up this lie I told him/her.
WTF?
They were these nonsensical things, too, and he didn't always tell me about them. Those times were often the worst fight starters.
Like how he didn't watch some show on TV because the satellite was out (he was actually drunk and passed out at the time so I guess he was covering for that bit of truth). When his coworker made small talk and asked If we ever figured out why the satellite goes out at night and I said it seemed to be working fine and looked puzzled, XABF had a complete meltdown when the guy left. Ranted and raved for hours about how I never back him up. I kept asking why he didn't just say he didn't see the show and leave it at that. Why lie???
Lulu, I totally get where you're coming from about losing the warmth for your A. I lost my warmth too. I had compassion and I cared for him as a person, but you can just only take so much negative energy before you can't respond with kindness any more.
Suck all theoxygen out of a room and a fire dies, right? It takes fuel to keep a love burning and all I get was a vacuum effect from him. He took and took and eventually never gave back enough to keep my pilot light lit. What did he expect to happen?
You hang in there. Taking stock and taking inventory is a tough process. Working through the past and making some kind of sense of it will help you move on and move forward. You're working through it beautifully!
Alice
WTF?
They were these nonsensical things, too, and he didn't always tell me about them. Those times were often the worst fight starters.
Like how he didn't watch some show on TV because the satellite was out (he was actually drunk and passed out at the time so I guess he was covering for that bit of truth). When his coworker made small talk and asked If we ever figured out why the satellite goes out at night and I said it seemed to be working fine and looked puzzled, XABF had a complete meltdown when the guy left. Ranted and raved for hours about how I never back him up. I kept asking why he didn't just say he didn't see the show and leave it at that. Why lie???
Lulu, I totally get where you're coming from about losing the warmth for your A. I lost my warmth too. I had compassion and I cared for him as a person, but you can just only take so much negative energy before you can't respond with kindness any more.
Suck all theoxygen out of a room and a fire dies, right? It takes fuel to keep a love burning and all I get was a vacuum effect from him. He took and took and eventually never gave back enough to keep my pilot light lit. What did he expect to happen?
You hang in there. Taking stock and taking inventory is a tough process. Working through the past and making some kind of sense of it will help you move on and move forward. You're working through it beautifully!
Alice
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Thank Alice...I am working really hard. I dont ever want to end up in that place again..
It hurts to go back and even think about some of the stuff he said / did..This person who made vows to me and all these promises. Such a conman. How can he treat my fragile heart that way I will never understand. And how he justifies all he does in his head is just unfathomable. Most people have a heart. He didnt. A heart of stone maybe.
It hurts to go back and even think about some of the stuff he said / did..This person who made vows to me and all these promises. Such a conman. How can he treat my fragile heart that way I will never understand. And how he justifies all he does in his head is just unfathomable. Most people have a heart. He didnt. A heart of stone maybe.
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Lulu, when H and I went to marriage counseling, the counselor was totally smitten with my H. She giggled at all his jokes and basically agreed with everything he said. She was too stupid to figure out he was having an affair, something that any person who had any experience with affairs would know. The scary thing is that she works for the court, so couples who are divorcing and want to give one last shot to marriage counseling go to see her.
Anyway, I remember that feeling. It perpetuated the idea that I was to blame, that I was a big party pooper who was just holding H down with all my made-up nonsense.
Anyway, I remember that feeling. It perpetuated the idea that I was to blame, that I was a big party pooper who was just holding H down with all my made-up nonsense.
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Originally Posted by wanting
Lulu, when H and I went to marriage counseling, the counselor was totally smitten with my H. She giggled at all his jokes and basically agreed with everything he said. She was too stupid to figure out he was having an affair, something that any person who had any experience with affairs would know. The scary thing is that she works for the court, so couples who are divorcing and want to give one last shot to marriage counseling go to see her.
Anyway, I remember that feeling. It perpetuated the idea that I was to blame, that I was a big party pooper who was just holding H down with all my made-up nonsense.
Anyway, I remember that feeling. It perpetuated the idea that I was to blame, that I was a big party pooper who was just holding H down with all my made-up nonsense.
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I have to say I don't have problem with lies any more, any of them my AH told me over the years. I used to go crazy over it as I kept asking why. Than I realized there is no logical answer to any of the possible why questions about behavior of an A, except for one: He is an A. His mind is not working properly. He is not in touch with reality, he is making up things as he goes as he has to protect himself from reality he's unable to face. It's not personal, it's not about me, it's about his inability to cope with life. Now I even feel compassion for it, as I changed my expectation. It was my problem that I expected him to be something he was not, something that he couldn't be.
Once I started seeing things in this light, everything became so much easier, I let go of my resentment, as it started to feel like resenting a desabled person for not being able to walk.
I'm getting a great comfort from learning about the nature of A's desease, as it is helping me to see my AH as the next person who is struggling. And unless he trully recovers there is no point in expecting him to act like a normal, healthy person who takes responsibility for his actions and words. That's a very simple equasion but it took me an awfully long time to finally understand it. Once I did my whole life changed for better.
Once I started seeing things in this light, everything became so much easier, I let go of my resentment, as it started to feel like resenting a desabled person for not being able to walk.
I'm getting a great comfort from learning about the nature of A's desease, as it is helping me to see my AH as the next person who is struggling. And unless he trully recovers there is no point in expecting him to act like a normal, healthy person who takes responsibility for his actions and words. That's a very simple equasion but it took me an awfully long time to finally understand it. Once I did my whole life changed for better.
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Originally Posted by sesh
I have to say I don't have problem with lies any more, any of them my AH told me over the years. I used to go crazy over it as I kept asking why. Than I realized there is no logical answer to any of the possible why questions about behavior of an A, except for one: He is an A. His mind is not working properly. He is not in touch with reality, he is making up things as he goes as he has to protect himself from reality he's unable to face. It's not personal, it's not about me, it's about his inability to cope with life. Now I even feel compassion for it, as I changed my expectation. It was my problem that I expected him to be something he was not, something that he couldn't be.
Once I started seeing things in this light, everything became so much easier, I let go of my resentment, as it started to feel like resenting a desabled person for not being able to walk.
I'm getting a great comfort from learning about the nature of A's desease, as it is helping me to see my AH as the next person who is struggling. And unless he trully recovers there is no point in expecting him to act like a normal, healthy person who takes responsibility for his actions and words. That's a very simple equasion but it took me an awfully long time to finally understand it. Once I did my whole life changed for better.
Once I started seeing things in this light, everything became so much easier, I let go of my resentment, as it started to feel like resenting a desabled person for not being able to walk.
I'm getting a great comfort from learning about the nature of A's desease, as it is helping me to see my AH as the next person who is struggling. And unless he trully recovers there is no point in expecting him to act like a normal, healthy person who takes responsibility for his actions and words. That's a very simple equasion but it took me an awfully long time to finally understand it. Once I did my whole life changed for better.
Hey, I am often depressed and want to never leave the house at times and i force myself at times crying to be responsible. I dont have magic drugs to take that away and no one is making excuses for me,. Why should they. But we make excuses for A..they are sick. Many of us are sick. Many of chose to recover. I dont mean this to sound critical, I just cant accept that this disease is responsible for all he has done. I think there is more to it than that.
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Each person is different. Mel had all the classic symptoms of alcoholism but that wasn't her only problem. She had a handful of characteristics associated with narcissistic, histrionic, and sociopathic personality disorders. Getting sober would have gone a long way to getting started on her issues but her drinking prevented her from getting off square one.
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Originally Posted by lulu1974
But in the real world there are expectations. I cant go to my work in sweats. I cant yell at every person I meet because I am mad. So just because they are hurting, what gives them the right to drown their sorrows and run away from their responsibility when everyone else has to do the right thing?
Hey, I am often depressed and want to never leave the house at times and i force myself at times crying to be responsible. I dont have magic drugs to take that away and no one is making excuses for me,. Why should they. But we make excuses for A..they are sick. Many of us are sick. Many of chose to recover. I dont mean this to sound critical, I just cant accept that this disease is responsible for all he has done. I think there is more to it than that.
Hey, I am often depressed and want to never leave the house at times and i force myself at times crying to be responsible. I dont have magic drugs to take that away and no one is making excuses for me,. Why should they. But we make excuses for A..they are sick. Many of us are sick. Many of chose to recover. I dont mean this to sound critical, I just cant accept that this disease is responsible for all he has done. I think there is more to it than that.
I don't think Sesh's point was "making excuses" for the alcoholic. I think it's more like "his choices, his consequences." Your choice is whether to take it personally, or let it go.
L
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Lulu, I do agree with everything you said, I felt the same way for years. Of course they have responisibility, but they are not taking it, of course it is in their power to recover but they are not doing it, but all of that is the nature of their problem/their desease. In some cases there is more to it, in others there is not, but the bottom line is the same. That's who they are right now, as right now they can't do better. It is due to the alcoholism and probably other reasons that led to alcoholism too. It is probably always very complicated, and I'm sure at some level every alcoholic is aware there is a problem there. They might not see it in the same light as we do, but I'm sure all of them at least subconsiously know they don't fit in the world as one should.
Now I don't think any of that is like an excues for their behaviour like it's not biggy, and it's fine as they can't help themselves, and it resolves them of responsibility, what I wanted to say it is not really about As at all as much as it is about us who are dealing with them. My AH is who he is. He is A who lies. That's a fact. I can only chose how I deal with that fact. I can get angry with it, and call him on his responsibilities, and get resentful because he's not having it, or I can chose to take that fact for what it is, without trying to find reasons and logic in it. So he is an A, he does stupid things, he lies, he runs away from reality, he is this sad person who can't/won't/won't because he thinks he can't (or whatever) do better.
Maybe there is more to it, like why your AH lies about his parents being alive, maybe he's hurt by losing them at such an early age, maybe he never got over it, maybe that's the reason he's an A today, maybe, maybe, maybe. But I chose to chuck away all my maybes, as I don't want to spend my life thinking about it. I want my sanity. So I say He's an A, he does stupid things because of it, he's missing on life because of it. And that is sad, isn't it? So I feel compassion for it, but in the same time I don't even want to know why, as whys give me headache, I just take IS, and full stop after that.
So my logic is: He's an A, thus incapable to take responisibility for his life and his loved ones. How sad. For him. And it is sad for me too if I let it affect me, but I chose not to, I have my precious life and I don't want it tainted by resentment.
I don't know if this makes sense to you.
Now I don't think any of that is like an excues for their behaviour like it's not biggy, and it's fine as they can't help themselves, and it resolves them of responsibility, what I wanted to say it is not really about As at all as much as it is about us who are dealing with them. My AH is who he is. He is A who lies. That's a fact. I can only chose how I deal with that fact. I can get angry with it, and call him on his responsibilities, and get resentful because he's not having it, or I can chose to take that fact for what it is, without trying to find reasons and logic in it. So he is an A, he does stupid things, he lies, he runs away from reality, he is this sad person who can't/won't/won't because he thinks he can't (or whatever) do better.
Maybe there is more to it, like why your AH lies about his parents being alive, maybe he's hurt by losing them at such an early age, maybe he never got over it, maybe that's the reason he's an A today, maybe, maybe, maybe. But I chose to chuck away all my maybes, as I don't want to spend my life thinking about it. I want my sanity. So I say He's an A, he does stupid things because of it, he's missing on life because of it. And that is sad, isn't it? So I feel compassion for it, but in the same time I don't even want to know why, as whys give me headache, I just take IS, and full stop after that.
So my logic is: He's an A, thus incapable to take responisibility for his life and his loved ones. How sad. For him. And it is sad for me too if I let it affect me, but I chose not to, I have my precious life and I don't want it tainted by resentment.
I don't know if this makes sense to you.
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It does and thanks so much. Just a hard concept to wrap my brain around. I hope in time I understand more. Right now I am doing the best I can. Its ok for now. I want to erase my stbxah from my life but that is making me feel better right now.
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