Take child away for weekend?
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: where the hell am i and what am i doing here?
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Take child away for weekend?
Here is my dilemma I need help with. My AH and I are separated, living under the same roof and in a bit of a limbo of what our future holds. A couple of weeks ago, I took our toddler son on a vacation to meet up with my family. Now, my AH wants to take him next weekend on a long weekend with his family. And I have concerns. My AH is a 'functioning' (is there such a thing?) A and has never had to nor had the opportunity to have to care for our child while intoxicated (that I know of). Most of the time I guard our son from him like a mother wolf when he's been drinking. In fact, a Father's day day trip was the longest I've been away from my son since he was born and the only time my AH has had him alone for longer than 4 hours. They would be traveling with my AFIL and his wife. Every time we visit with them, it's pretty much a drunken weekend spent in the smoke-filled garage, but this time they're going to and participating in a convention, so they should be sober days. His wife (my son's step grandma), a responsible drinker, has agreed to help babysit. I voiced my concerns and my AH said he is a grown man and was not going to put our son in danger. So now I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons and figure out if I should just trust him and let them go. Most of my anger and resentment dates back to before our son was born and specifically when I was pregnant and his behavior and lack of judgment back then. Since then my AH has tried unsuccessfully to quit drinking on his own, checked himself into detox, stopped drinking for a month, controlled his drinking for several months after that and is now drinking at least 4-5 nights a week at night after our son is in bed. So, while he has been drinking more than I'm willing to accept, he hasn't done anything specific in regards to the care of our child to make me think he wouldn't be responsible. Then again, he's never had the opportunity to since I'm always there. Do I give him a chance to prove he's the responsible man/father he claims to be? My fear is that I know him and his father, and while he may go with the best intentions, once he's there around his dad...who knows what will happen. When I asked a friend, she said it would look bad for me in regards to custody that I felt comfortable enough to let him take him away for the weekend without me being there. I'd appreciate any of your opinions, thoughts, questions, advice, etc. I'm just not sure what I should do!
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I think you are concerned about the safety of your son. That comes through clearly in your post. Whenever I have ignored my gut instincts, I have always regretted it. It is, IMO, better to play it safe than be sorry. Toddlers require watching every minute. I don't think anyone drunk can possibly have that kind of awareness.
Once, my sister brought her two sons to visit me. One was a toddler at the time and the other was a baby. We lived in an old house with an old gas range. They no sooner got there and were getting settled in, then her two-year-old walked over to the stove and burned his hand. It was nobodies fault, we were saying our hellos and hugging and she was preoccupied with that and the baby. The stove was on, as I had dinner in progress, and the toddler was not used to being around a stove that was too hot to touch on the outside. That's all it took--moments--and he was severely burned on his hand.
Once they got back home, the daycare called and she had to come in and fill out a report explaining what happened and how. She was questioned and felt suspect. All because of an innocent incident, where no one was being neglectful, or intoxicated. If that can happen, imagine what could happen when a toddler is left in the care of a drunk, two drunks, or two drunks and an enabler....
I think you are justified in your concern, but are afraid of the reaction of others. The safety of the child must come first. Even if it means being labeled a biotch.
L
Once, my sister brought her two sons to visit me. One was a toddler at the time and the other was a baby. We lived in an old house with an old gas range. They no sooner got there and were getting settled in, then her two-year-old walked over to the stove and burned his hand. It was nobodies fault, we were saying our hellos and hugging and she was preoccupied with that and the baby. The stove was on, as I had dinner in progress, and the toddler was not used to being around a stove that was too hot to touch on the outside. That's all it took--moments--and he was severely burned on his hand.
Once they got back home, the daycare called and she had to come in and fill out a report explaining what happened and how. She was questioned and felt suspect. All because of an innocent incident, where no one was being neglectful, or intoxicated. If that can happen, imagine what could happen when a toddler is left in the care of a drunk, two drunks, or two drunks and an enabler....
I think you are justified in your concern, but are afraid of the reaction of others. The safety of the child must come first. Even if it means being labeled a biotch.
L
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 197
I think you already know the answer to your question ... you just want some support in voicing it?
Don't, even for a second, think of letting an alcoholic have care & control of your child. It's hard work keeping them safe at that age when you have all your faculties ... If the worst happened you would never live with yourself. You're his mother. Do what you need to do to protect him. No one else is going to if you don't. You don't need to seem "nice". That's not part of the job description. You can do this.
Don't, even for a second, think of letting an alcoholic have care & control of your child. It's hard work keeping them safe at that age when you have all your faculties ... If the worst happened you would never live with yourself. You're his mother. Do what you need to do to protect him. No one else is going to if you don't. You don't need to seem "nice". That's not part of the job description. You can do this.
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This is a boundary issue.
Are you truly able to say "no" to the father of your child? Do you literally have that right, or would it just be your opinion that he shouldn't go?
The hot stove illustration is a good reminder, but barring all dramatic kinds of accidents, I think we know that a young person is not being cared for in a loving and attentive way, if he is surrounded by drinkers - addicts or not. Drinking - espcially drinking in excess - is an adult activity. The two simply don't mix, in a responsible person's mind IMO.
You don't have to doubt that AH is meeting his basic needs, or that he would put the child in harm's way....he is just not going to able to be truly present to the youngster's needs. And if he doesn't see this, well, he's putting his own immature needs first.
1. Will alcohol be present?
2. Do you agree that alcohol is a brain-altering drug?
3. You cannot possibly be 100% present and attentive, if your brain has been
chemically altered.
4. Case closed
This is the reasoning I would give in the same situation.
Are you truly able to say "no" to the father of your child? Do you literally have that right, or would it just be your opinion that he shouldn't go?
The hot stove illustration is a good reminder, but barring all dramatic kinds of accidents, I think we know that a young person is not being cared for in a loving and attentive way, if he is surrounded by drinkers - addicts or not. Drinking - espcially drinking in excess - is an adult activity. The two simply don't mix, in a responsible person's mind IMO.
You don't have to doubt that AH is meeting his basic needs, or that he would put the child in harm's way....he is just not going to able to be truly present to the youngster's needs. And if he doesn't see this, well, he's putting his own immature needs first.
1. Will alcohol be present?
2. Do you agree that alcohol is a brain-altering drug?
3. You cannot possibly be 100% present and attentive, if your brain has been
chemically altered.
4. Case closed
This is the reasoning I would give in the same situation.
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Your AH has been to detox and rehab, tried to control HIS drinking and been unable to, but he wants to be trusted with the care and safety of a small child, and,not in your home, but on a trip with a couple more drinkers.
Do you drink around your son?
Do you wait til he is in bed and then have a few or more drinks?
Why not? Perhaps because it is NOT a real good idea, it is dangerous and God forbid he is sick, or there's a fire in the night.
A toddler is the most elusive animal on 2 legs, and I know that for a fact because I had 3 kids in 31/2ears, and anybody caring for them needs eyes in the back of their head.
An alcoholic is not the most alert carer on the planet, so I sure as heck do not give him my vote to play "Daddy in Charge" and take your son anywhere.
It may not make you the most popular woman he knows if you deny him this, but then again you are in the process of divorce, so I guess you are used to copping a bit of flack from AH when you have displeased him in the past.
Stay strong for your little child's sake.
God bless
Do you drink around your son?
Do you wait til he is in bed and then have a few or more drinks?
Why not? Perhaps because it is NOT a real good idea, it is dangerous and God forbid he is sick, or there's a fire in the night.
A toddler is the most elusive animal on 2 legs, and I know that for a fact because I had 3 kids in 31/2ears, and anybody caring for them needs eyes in the back of their head.
An alcoholic is not the most alert carer on the planet, so I sure as heck do not give him my vote to play "Daddy in Charge" and take your son anywhere.
It may not make you the most popular woman he knows if you deny him this, but then again you are in the process of divorce, so I guess you are used to copping a bit of flack from AH when you have displeased him in the past.
Stay strong for your little child's sake.
God bless
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Canada
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I am sorry. Only you can answer this question. You already know the answer.
I would let my AH take my little girl without giving it a second thought. Because I know without a doubt that he would take good care of her.
If you have any doubts, not because you are mad at him or resent him or hate what he did in the past, but have honest doubts than the answer has to be NO. You can't let him take your toddler with. End of discussion.
You are not the one making the decision. He is. His actions and behaviors from the past are making this decision. Don't feel bad. And don't feel like you are taking something away from him. If you have to say no, then he has taken it away himself. It is his own accomplishments or lack thereof that made this decision.
I would let my AH take my little girl without giving it a second thought. Because I know without a doubt that he would take good care of her.
If you have any doubts, not because you are mad at him or resent him or hate what he did in the past, but have honest doubts than the answer has to be NO. You can't let him take your toddler with. End of discussion.
You are not the one making the decision. He is. His actions and behaviors from the past are making this decision. Don't feel bad. And don't feel like you are taking something away from him. If you have to say no, then he has taken it away himself. It is his own accomplishments or lack thereof that made this decision.
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Originally Posted by SomeoneElse 
When I asked a friend, she said it would look bad for me in regards to custody that I felt comfortable enough to let him take him away for the weekend without me being there. I'd appreciate any of your opinions, thoughts, questions, advice, etc. I'm just not sure what I should do!
I'd be suspicious that he is getting legal advice, or advice from somewhere, telling him to take the child on his own. My xah's lawyer gave all kinds of advice to him - none of which was a good idea for the kids and my xah didn't even agree with it. It was all designed to help him win a custody battle. Lawyers don't really give a damn about the kids, they are just putting their clients in the best position.
My xah didn't follow through on that advice (but of course he used it to the fullest extent as a scare tactic and manipulation tool against me - and it worked).
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This is JMO, but as a mother to a toddler...I'd say "h*ll no". It doesn't matter what your XAH's intentions are, or how good he thinks they are, the fact of the matter is, he is unable to control his drinking and has failed to get himself into recovery.
Also, the fact that this would be the first time he'd be taking his son on his own might set a legal precedent for the future. Because of this, and because of his history, I'd either accompany them on the trip to safeguard your son, or just say no and keep your toddler home.
Also, the fact that this would be the first time he'd be taking his son on his own might set a legal precedent for the future. Because of this, and because of his history, I'd either accompany them on the trip to safeguard your son, or just say no and keep your toddler home.
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I know it seems crazy, right. We think in a "normal" marriage no one would question this scenerio. Unfortunately, when married to an A we have to do things differently.
So many of the things you have mentioned mirror my story. My AH also tried, rehab, cutting back, moderating, etc...It worked for a short time, but he eventually fell back into it. Each time worse than before.
I agree it is a boundary issue. He will fight you tooth and nail on this. He will try to say anything and everything for you to change your mind. It will be one of the hardest things you have to do, but please stand your ground! Once he realizes you aren't bending he will stop asking.
I remember when I first set the boundary that AH could no longer drive the car with the children. He knew I was no longer allowing the kids to drive with him and he asked to take older dd to a college basketball game. She wanted to go so bad. I had to say "no". He kept asking, dismissing me, etc.... and she kept begging to go. It was really hard to have her mad at me, but at least I knew she was safe.
I remember telling AH that I would never forgive myself if I let the kids get in the car with him and then something happened.
Trust your gut! Trust your gut! Trust your gut!
It won't be easy, but it will be worth it ((((hugs)))
So many of the things you have mentioned mirror my story. My AH also tried, rehab, cutting back, moderating, etc...It worked for a short time, but he eventually fell back into it. Each time worse than before.
I agree it is a boundary issue. He will fight you tooth and nail on this. He will try to say anything and everything for you to change your mind. It will be one of the hardest things you have to do, but please stand your ground! Once he realizes you aren't bending he will stop asking.
I remember when I first set the boundary that AH could no longer drive the car with the children. He knew I was no longer allowing the kids to drive with him and he asked to take older dd to a college basketball game. She wanted to go so bad. I had to say "no". He kept asking, dismissing me, etc.... and she kept begging to go. It was really hard to have her mad at me, but at least I knew she was safe.
I remember telling AH that I would never forgive myself if I let the kids get in the car with him and then something happened.
Trust your gut! Trust your gut! Trust your gut!
It won't be easy, but it will be worth it ((((hugs)))
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I would never agree to someone 'proving' themselves with one of my children.
They would have had to 'prove' themselves to me long before I trusted them with a child of mine whatever the circumstances.
They would have had to 'prove' themselves to me long before I trusted them with a child of mine whatever the circumstances.
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Thank you all for your replies and encouragement. My gut...while it may not have come across that way...was that it would be ok to trust him. That although he had done a lot to ruin my trust prior to having our son, since then, although he still drinks, he hasn't shown me any behavior that would make a normal (sane?) person (without all my baggage) doubt his abilities. But after talking to my friend, I started to second guess myself. In fact, I even retorted defensively, "don't make me feel bad if I let him go!" Glad I asked here since you all provided a lot of food for thought.
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I'm not sure I agree it's ALWAYS a good thing for codependents to trust their gut instinct. Maybe sometimes its good to run stuff past an intelligently chosen third party.
The more I think about the custody issue the more it seems like it would look very good for your partner to be able to present to the court that you feel comfortable enough with him to allow him to take your child away for the weekend. Maybe you need to be very very sure that this is the case before you set this precedent?
Glad to hear your thinking all this over SomeoneElse
The more I think about the custody issue the more it seems like it would look very good for your partner to be able to present to the court that you feel comfortable enough with him to allow him to take your child away for the weekend. Maybe you need to be very very sure that this is the case before you set this precedent?
Glad to hear your thinking all this over SomeoneElse
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Originally Posted by Helenlee
I'm not sure I agree it's ALWAYS a good thing for codependents to trust their gut instinct. Maybe sometimes its good to run stuff past an intelligently chosen third party.
A third party "gut check" can be a good thing, if you can be fairly certain the person doesn't have their own agenda. For me, it's more important to get real with myself and pay attention. The gut instinct is usually not as "loud" as the other, not so healthy "voices."
L
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I will just add one thing here. My husband drove around under the influence w/our children. I was horrified when I found out and disgusted that I let this go on for so long. He went to rehab, but if something had happened to one of my children during that time I dont know how I would go on. I actually let it go on so long that I had thought I would get him a SCRAM bracelet (like Lindsey Lohan wears) that alarms when alcohol is present in their system (reads in in their sweat). The only thing is with something voluntary, how would you know they actually wear it.
I am not telling anyone what to do, I am just saying looking back I cannot believe I ever put my kids in that situation. Protect your children above all costs, no matter what or how that is to be accomplished. I thank the Lord each day that nothing happened when my husband was a drinker. Good Luck and God Bless!
I am not telling anyone what to do, I am just saying looking back I cannot believe I ever put my kids in that situation. Protect your children above all costs, no matter what or how that is to be accomplished. I thank the Lord each day that nothing happened when my husband was a drinker. Good Luck and God Bless!
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Hopeful's comment: I am not telling anyone what to do, I am just saying looking back I cannot believe I ever put my kids in that situation.
Me too. Prior to me really understanding what it means to be an alcoholic - that they will never control their drinking: I remember I had a mum's group coffee night so 'functional' AH had to look after the kids for a couple of hours. He had already been drinking when I left but I had been so conditioned to seeing him with a drink in his hand that it didn't register as a problem to me. His tolerance by that time was so high that he didn't seem drunk. I thought he was functional, I thought he knew about my night for weeks so he would have planned to stay on top of things, he knew he had to look after a three year old and a one year old. I came two hours later, he was passed out sitting in front of the TV, fully clothed with a drink in his hand (never spilled his beer) and I realised that he had bathed the kids absolutely stinking drunk, completely wasted, probably on the verge of passing out then, it was only sheer luck that he got them to bed before he checked out. It's those kind of memories that make me realise how huge MY problem was that I was ok with walking out the door leaving him in charge.
Me too. Prior to me really understanding what it means to be an alcoholic - that they will never control their drinking: I remember I had a mum's group coffee night so 'functional' AH had to look after the kids for a couple of hours. He had already been drinking when I left but I had been so conditioned to seeing him with a drink in his hand that it didn't register as a problem to me. His tolerance by that time was so high that he didn't seem drunk. I thought he was functional, I thought he knew about my night for weeks so he would have planned to stay on top of things, he knew he had to look after a three year old and a one year old. I came two hours later, he was passed out sitting in front of the TV, fully clothed with a drink in his hand (never spilled his beer) and I realised that he had bathed the kids absolutely stinking drunk, completely wasted, probably on the verge of passing out then, it was only sheer luck that he got them to bed before he checked out. It's those kind of memories that make me realise how huge MY problem was that I was ok with walking out the door leaving him in charge.
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