Is this person an alcoholic or just immature? (Frequency vs. intensity)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 31
Is this person an alcoholic or just immature? (Frequency vs. intensity)
I am not sure what to make of this particular case study/specimen. I tried to fill in details, to give you an accurate picture.
My brother's wife called me. They have been married 2 years.
Early 30s, no kids, college educated, healthy, working professionals.
No history of AA in the family.
Here is the problem: He doesn't drink often. But when he does, he gets out of control. It's only when he's out with his friends. Still gets sh*tfaced at the (local) bar....at this age. It might happen once a month, or even less. But it's over-the-top blackout trashed when it does happen.
I don't know the conventional wisdom on frequency vs. intensity. But, at 32, this is outliving the "everyone gets smashed sometimes" phase of HS/college/early 20s...
I can see this going in any direction. It could get worse (more frequent), or he may simply wake up at 33/35/38/41, and decide, "Eh, I'm not really up for getting hammered anymore" (and it just goes away on its own...) In fact, this happens to a LOT of people in their 20s, in fact. (Hence, is he just immature?) Maturity hits at different ages for different people.
Reg Flag #2
He doesn't seem to drink casually. Like a HS kid, he doesn't have a drink at dinner. You remember that age? You drank to get drunk, otherwise, there's almost "no point" (though he doesn't say that.) Granted, this can be framed as a boon (calories, etc) But, it's something "abnormal". Alcohol seems to be only for getting smashed beyond control.
Reg Flag #3
His wife no longer likes to socialize in public when he is drinking. If it's bar night with the couples, or a wild holiday party, etc. (He can't control himself, and gets messy) She doesn't want to be the babysitter. Again, early 30s, no kids, and no friends have kids either. These are the last few years of "party nights" they'll be having. So this may become a moot point within a few years, when they and/or entire friend circle simply ceases to "party". ie: Is it the context/stimulus that's to "blame"? B/c he doesn't drink at home, etc. Does it go away when the peer pressure goes away?
Reg Flag #4
Wife is not happy with his behavior when drunk. In fact, he might have gotten verbally belligerent last weekend, when he got home at 4am. (Ahh, leave me alone, bitch!) I believe this is what trigged her call.
From his side, my brother may not see a problem at all. He always goes to work, has a serious job, pays his bills, stays fit, keeps up the house, has a few hobbies, etc. (functional?) More confusing, he doesn't really drink very often. In fact, he barely drinks. Can he be an alcoholic? In this regard, he's not a textbook alcoholic. I can see his reaction as "Look, I'm not some alcoholic, like on TV. This is ridiculous"
Personally, I don't view alcoholism as binary, and there are different grades. I know guys who have lost it ALL from alcoholism (divorce, lose custody of kids, their professional license, their business, DWIs, and went to jail...) My brother is simply not capable of this trajectory, and I don't think all people fit the same mold/remedy.
I am not sure how atypical this type of situation is. It would be easier if he were a stereotype "alcoholic" who clearly has a blatant nightmarish drinking problem that is destroying every aspect of his life. (.... constantly loses his job, crashes cars, gets into fights, has problems with law, steals/lies like a desperate junkie, etc)
Instead, his defense may simply be, "Hey, I work hard, and once a month (or even less), I go out, and have a few too many with my friends. I think it's perfectly normal, and don't see any problem here" To date, there is no tangible "proof" that this is actually a problem for him.
However, bottom line: There IS a problem, however tiny right now. And that is: The wife has a problem with drinking habits and has mentioned this to 2 people. (or more) So, it's affecting his marriage. Sure, the extent of the actual drinking "problem" may be debatable, but the wife's discontent is literally undeniable. It's a fact. So, ipso facto, like it or not, that means he's got a "problem" that needs to be addressed. Period.
Some questions I still need to find out. ...(are they relevant?)
1) Does he get sh*tfaced every time he picks up a drink?
2) How often does he get sh*tfaced?
3) Does he drive when this drunk?
Everyone knoes the key to any drinking issue is the person seeing a problem, and wanting to fix it. Otherwise, it's all a TOTAL waste of time...
Yes, there is problem enough worth addressing. (It's affecting marriage, even if he just does it once a year. She's not happy about it)
As you know, most things in life fall into predicable patterns. To someone, this might be a textbook case of XYZ, and the path is crystal clear. I'd love to hear feedback from that person! Thanks for your time.
My brother's wife called me. They have been married 2 years.
Early 30s, no kids, college educated, healthy, working professionals.
No history of AA in the family.
Here is the problem: He doesn't drink often. But when he does, he gets out of control. It's only when he's out with his friends. Still gets sh*tfaced at the (local) bar....at this age. It might happen once a month, or even less. But it's over-the-top blackout trashed when it does happen.
I don't know the conventional wisdom on frequency vs. intensity. But, at 32, this is outliving the "everyone gets smashed sometimes" phase of HS/college/early 20s...
I can see this going in any direction. It could get worse (more frequent), or he may simply wake up at 33/35/38/41, and decide, "Eh, I'm not really up for getting hammered anymore" (and it just goes away on its own...) In fact, this happens to a LOT of people in their 20s, in fact. (Hence, is he just immature?) Maturity hits at different ages for different people.
Reg Flag #2
He doesn't seem to drink casually. Like a HS kid, he doesn't have a drink at dinner. You remember that age? You drank to get drunk, otherwise, there's almost "no point" (though he doesn't say that.) Granted, this can be framed as a boon (calories, etc) But, it's something "abnormal". Alcohol seems to be only for getting smashed beyond control.
Reg Flag #3
His wife no longer likes to socialize in public when he is drinking. If it's bar night with the couples, or a wild holiday party, etc. (He can't control himself, and gets messy) She doesn't want to be the babysitter. Again, early 30s, no kids, and no friends have kids either. These are the last few years of "party nights" they'll be having. So this may become a moot point within a few years, when they and/or entire friend circle simply ceases to "party". ie: Is it the context/stimulus that's to "blame"? B/c he doesn't drink at home, etc. Does it go away when the peer pressure goes away?
Reg Flag #4
Wife is not happy with his behavior when drunk. In fact, he might have gotten verbally belligerent last weekend, when he got home at 4am. (Ahh, leave me alone, bitch!) I believe this is what trigged her call.
From his side, my brother may not see a problem at all. He always goes to work, has a serious job, pays his bills, stays fit, keeps up the house, has a few hobbies, etc. (functional?) More confusing, he doesn't really drink very often. In fact, he barely drinks. Can he be an alcoholic? In this regard, he's not a textbook alcoholic. I can see his reaction as "Look, I'm not some alcoholic, like on TV. This is ridiculous"
Personally, I don't view alcoholism as binary, and there are different grades. I know guys who have lost it ALL from alcoholism (divorce, lose custody of kids, their professional license, their business, DWIs, and went to jail...) My brother is simply not capable of this trajectory, and I don't think all people fit the same mold/remedy.
I am not sure how atypical this type of situation is. It would be easier if he were a stereotype "alcoholic" who clearly has a blatant nightmarish drinking problem that is destroying every aspect of his life. (.... constantly loses his job, crashes cars, gets into fights, has problems with law, steals/lies like a desperate junkie, etc)
Instead, his defense may simply be, "Hey, I work hard, and once a month (or even less), I go out, and have a few too many with my friends. I think it's perfectly normal, and don't see any problem here" To date, there is no tangible "proof" that this is actually a problem for him.
However, bottom line: There IS a problem, however tiny right now. And that is: The wife has a problem with drinking habits and has mentioned this to 2 people. (or more) So, it's affecting his marriage. Sure, the extent of the actual drinking "problem" may be debatable, but the wife's discontent is literally undeniable. It's a fact. So, ipso facto, like it or not, that means he's got a "problem" that needs to be addressed. Period.
Some questions I still need to find out. ...(are they relevant?)
1) Does he get sh*tfaced every time he picks up a drink?
2) How often does he get sh*tfaced?
3) Does he drive when this drunk?
Everyone knoes the key to any drinking issue is the person seeing a problem, and wanting to fix it. Otherwise, it's all a TOTAL waste of time...
Yes, there is problem enough worth addressing. (It's affecting marriage, even if he just does it once a year. She's not happy about it)
As you know, most things in life fall into predicable patterns. To someone, this might be a textbook case of XYZ, and the path is crystal clear. I'd love to hear feedback from that person! Thanks for your time.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
I suggest your SIL (sister-in-law) find a support group or counselor. Alanon is a support group for friends and family members of alcoholics. It is based on the same 12 steps and 12 traditions of AA (Alcoholics Anonymous).
I appologize: I will not be able to help you determine if your brother is an alcoholic or if he is just immature.
I appologize: I will not be able to help you determine if your brother is an alcoholic or if he is just immature.
aboutdone
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: midwest
Posts: 191
Wow, there is a lot of what ifs there....
Personally, I would say alcoholic tendencies sure exist. I don't know that I would label it alcoholism or alcohol abuse. There is a difference.
For me the defining factors would be his attitude towards it.
1. Feels entitled.
2. Justifies the entitlement.
3. Blackouts.
4. Wife no longer enjoys behavior.
Those all say alcoholism.
Questions to be answered...
1. If its a short term binge, do they happen more and more frequently?
2. Does he need more alcohol each time to become drunk?
3. Is the goal always to get smashed?
4. Is he able to just have a couple and stop or leave the party or social event?
5. Is he willing to go out without wife to still drink?
6. Is he willing to stop this activity as it is damaging their relationship?
7. Is this something he always looks forward to?
8. Do the others he drinks with act the same? (boys night out sorta thing)
9. Is he willing to admit that this is a problem for the relationship?
10. Does he lie about how much he drinks, his whereabouts, or manipulate situation to go out?
Its really hard to say and nobody here is going to be able to give a clear cut answer to this.
There is reason to believe alcoholism is genetically inclined, however can hit every generation, or skip many generations, so that really isn't a good basis for determining alcoholism. Also what I learned while XRAH was in rehab is that it isn't necessarily alcoholism that should be looked at. It is the addiction itself. Grandpa may have been alcoholic,Mom eating disorder, Son addict, granddaughter both addict and alcoholic.
I think first and foremost if he is refusing to address that this is an issue, then it more than likely is.
Personally, I would say alcoholic tendencies sure exist. I don't know that I would label it alcoholism or alcohol abuse. There is a difference.
For me the defining factors would be his attitude towards it.
1. Feels entitled.
2. Justifies the entitlement.
3. Blackouts.
4. Wife no longer enjoys behavior.
Those all say alcoholism.
Questions to be answered...
1. If its a short term binge, do they happen more and more frequently?
2. Does he need more alcohol each time to become drunk?
3. Is the goal always to get smashed?
4. Is he able to just have a couple and stop or leave the party or social event?
5. Is he willing to go out without wife to still drink?
6. Is he willing to stop this activity as it is damaging their relationship?
7. Is this something he always looks forward to?
8. Do the others he drinks with act the same? (boys night out sorta thing)
9. Is he willing to admit that this is a problem for the relationship?
10. Does he lie about how much he drinks, his whereabouts, or manipulate situation to go out?
Its really hard to say and nobody here is going to be able to give a clear cut answer to this.
There is reason to believe alcoholism is genetically inclined, however can hit every generation, or skip many generations, so that really isn't a good basis for determining alcoholism. Also what I learned while XRAH was in rehab is that it isn't necessarily alcoholism that should be looked at. It is the addiction itself. Grandpa may have been alcoholic,Mom eating disorder, Son addict, granddaughter both addict and alcoholic.
I think first and foremost if he is refusing to address that this is an issue, then it more than likely is.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
I say it doesn't matter. His behavior is having a negative impact on his marriage. Whether he is an alcoholic or not is irrelevant. It's never about the alcohol, it's always about the behavior. My XAH used to drink 25-20 beers a night, every night. That was not the problem. It was his belligerent, angry, irresponsible attitude that was the problem.
If someone plays too much golf, to the detriment of the marriage and family, we don't have to label them a 'golfoholic' to determine that their behavior is damaging. The label does not matter. Maybe he's immature, maybe he's an alcoholic. Maybe he's just a jerk. The only thing that matters is his behavior is detrimental to his relationship and life.
L
If someone plays too much golf, to the detriment of the marriage and family, we don't have to label them a 'golfoholic' to determine that their behavior is damaging. The label does not matter. Maybe he's immature, maybe he's an alcoholic. Maybe he's just a jerk. The only thing that matters is his behavior is detrimental to his relationship and life.
L
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
I read once that an addiction is any behavior that negatively affects a person's health, primary relationships, work, or other important areas of his or her life, yet the person is not willing to change the behavior. This echoes what LaTeeDa said. If the drinking causes problems, then it is a problem.
I'm growing
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Right where I need to be
Posts: 601
If the question is CAN an alcoholic just go out on binges and be an alcoholic....the answer is YES.
That does not mean your Brother is an A. But yes, binge drinkers CAN be alcoholics.
The fact that your SIL is reaching out to you for help is a good indicator that there is a SERIOUS problem. We co-dependents do a real good job at keeping this under wraps. I never told my IL's until the DAY I left my AH. Remember this is a progressive disease.
I would try to educate myself about the disease. I think you both could benefit from going to al-anon meetings
It has helped me a lot! Also, the book "Marriage on the Rocks" or the "Getting Them Sober" books are quick easy, helpful reads 
It is amazing what this disease can do to people. 5 years ago I said the same things about my own Husband.....and well this year He managed to get a DUI, I filed for divorce, He is very close to losing his job (as a highly educated professional), and he went to jail 2 weeks ago for a domestic altercation. I am not saying this will happen to your brother, but everybody's bottom is different. You never know when they will hit it 
That does not mean your Brother is an A. But yes, binge drinkers CAN be alcoholics.
The fact that your SIL is reaching out to you for help is a good indicator that there is a SERIOUS problem. We co-dependents do a real good job at keeping this under wraps. I never told my IL's until the DAY I left my AH. Remember this is a progressive disease.
I would try to educate myself about the disease. I think you both could benefit from going to al-anon meetings
It has helped me a lot! Also, the book "Marriage on the Rocks" or the "Getting Them Sober" books are quick easy, helpful reads
Personally, I don't view alcoholism as binary, and there are different grades. I know guys who have lost it ALL from alcoholism (divorce, lose custody of kids, their professional license, their business, DWIs, and went to jail...) My brother is simply not capable of this trajectory, and I don't think all people fit the same mold/remedy.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 31
Thanks for the replies.
Noted that it is progressive. Frequency is just once a month, so it's harder to cast a judgement. Something to keep an eye on, if it increases.
For now, he's been confronted lightly. We will wait and see how this impacts future behavior. Still getting smashed after the embarrassment of this episode will be a bigger warning sign. (denial, lack of control, etc)
Noted that it is progressive. Frequency is just once a month, so it's harder to cast a judgement. Something to keep an eye on, if it increases.
For now, he's been confronted lightly. We will wait and see how this impacts future behavior. Still getting smashed after the embarrassment of this episode will be a bigger warning sign. (denial, lack of control, etc)
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
My brother is simply not capable of this trajectory
Some questions I still need to find out. ...(are they relevant?)
1) Does he get sh*tfaced every time he picks up a drink?
2) How often does he get sh*tfaced?
3) Does he drive when this drunk?
1) Does he get sh*tfaced every time he picks up a drink?
2) How often does he get sh*tfaced?
3) Does he drive when this drunk?
Your brother is a binger. His wife is complaining. If he were MY husband I would have kicked his a$$ to the curb the FIRST time he got trashed and called me a bitch.
Here is my advice: Tell him he has a problem, hand him the number to A.A., and walk away.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 31
Learn,
Yes, he is the youngest of 2. What is the connection??
Thanks for the reply, and I actually agree with your stance. I am just doing a simple favor of quick "research" from forum outsiders (b/c to me its not so clear/cut) Otherwise, this is not my issue at all, nor can anyone solve it but him, if there is a problem, indeed. Some light research on this case study can also serve for my own general knowledge, which I find interesting.
Yes, he is the youngest of 2. What is the connection??
Thanks for the reply, and I actually agree with your stance. I am just doing a simple favor of quick "research" from forum outsiders (b/c to me its not so clear/cut) Otherwise, this is not my issue at all, nor can anyone solve it but him, if there is a problem, indeed. Some light research on this case study can also serve for my own general knowledge, which I find interesting.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
Posts: 5,068
In the rooms of AA there is a concept called "yets".
Your brother doesn't drink every day. Yet.
Your brother hasn't lost a job over his drinking. Yet.
Your brother hasn't lost his marriage over his drinking. Yet.
Your brother hasn't lost custody of his kids over his drinking. Yet
Your brother hasn't lost a his driver's license over his drinking. Yet.....
You get the idea. Alcoholism is progressive, and frankly many of us fell so far that we did drink every day, lose jobs, relationships, go to jail, etc. He is lucky to have not gone this far. Get him help, if he will take it. If he won't you are wasting your time.
Your brother doesn't drink every day. Yet.
Your brother hasn't lost a job over his drinking. Yet.
Your brother hasn't lost his marriage over his drinking. Yet.
Your brother hasn't lost custody of his kids over his drinking. Yet
Your brother hasn't lost a his driver's license over his drinking. Yet.....
You get the idea. Alcoholism is progressive, and frankly many of us fell so far that we did drink every day, lose jobs, relationships, go to jail, etc. He is lucky to have not gone this far. Get him help, if he will take it. If he won't you are wasting your time.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
What is the connection??
Your brother sounds like me. I found out I was an alcoholic when I was about 29. The person who told me I had a problem was a person I trusted, whose judgment I respected, and who had five years in the Program. I argued with them at first, but it did not take long once I was presented with a few shreds of evidence, to admit that I had a problem. But, I am likely the exception to the rule. I just knew that if there was a remote possibility I was like my Dad (an obvious alcoholic), I wanted nothing to do with it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 31
These are great replies. Thanks for sharing your expertise and experience. There is no substitute.
Yes, I am not calling on deaf ears.
I have seen it before with other (much more hardcore) friends, I am also doing this "research" for my own edification.
Only he can do anything about it.
If I can help him find some evidence, I will, but that is the extent of my involvement.
He's on his own. I get that.
And yes, point taken about the progressive nature. It is easy to dismiss now, b/c it's minor, but who knows where it can head. Even I am in denial, b/c I simply outgrew drinking, but at an earlier age.
However, the red flags are in, and can't be denied.
* Blackout drunk (however infrequent)
* Subsequently, wife upset w/ belligerent behavior
* Binging in your 30s.
* Missing work sometimes.
Right now, he certainly could get a DWI. The others are still distant "yets"
Bottom line, ideally, it would be best to just go cold turkey, and stop, and nip this in the bud? (Ha, yea, in theory, easier said than done) Before it progresses to other things.
Yes, I am not calling on deaf ears.
I have seen it before with other (much more hardcore) friends, I am also doing this "research" for my own edification.
Only he can do anything about it.
If I can help him find some evidence, I will, but that is the extent of my involvement.
He's on his own. I get that.
And yes, point taken about the progressive nature. It is easy to dismiss now, b/c it's minor, but who knows where it can head. Even I am in denial, b/c I simply outgrew drinking, but at an earlier age.
However, the red flags are in, and can't be denied.
* Blackout drunk (however infrequent)
* Subsequently, wife upset w/ belligerent behavior
* Binging in your 30s.
* Missing work sometimes.
Right now, he certainly could get a DWI. The others are still distant "yets"
Bottom line, ideally, it would be best to just go cold turkey, and stop, and nip this in the bud? (Ha, yea, in theory, easier said than done) Before it progresses to other things.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 31
Here is what my friend says:
"the more you guys dig...the more you will see he is farther along.... nobodies fault,its at the point where he cant hide everything....things that meant nothing now take on a Dif slant...
.....now he knows everyone is 'on to him'...he will feel pissed,persecuted,and wont understand why he is being singled out...this is where a person will start to 'hide things' ( not hide items)..and little lies to account for his time/activities...he will feel nobody trusts him, or he cant trust anyone ( wife)..........everyone is against me...wife,family...he will bllame his wife for 'ratting him out'...she needs to stay tough......maybe im overreacting a bit at this point...but it will happen
now it gets dangerous......of course he drives..maybe not all the time but it only takes one time to get nailed.....OR just one time to hit a curb.we all hit curbs, but if he disables his car etc.then the cops come....busted....and for what....the other thing is 1 of 2 things will happen now that he feels watched..he may straighten out ( which I hope that's the case, but its 'iffy)'....OR, he doubles his efforts to 'outsmart' everyone......:"
"the more you guys dig...the more you will see he is farther along.... nobodies fault,its at the point where he cant hide everything....things that meant nothing now take on a Dif slant...
.....now he knows everyone is 'on to him'...he will feel pissed,persecuted,and wont understand why he is being singled out...this is where a person will start to 'hide things' ( not hide items)..and little lies to account for his time/activities...he will feel nobody trusts him, or he cant trust anyone ( wife)..........everyone is against me...wife,family...he will bllame his wife for 'ratting him out'...she needs to stay tough......maybe im overreacting a bit at this point...but it will happen
now it gets dangerous......of course he drives..maybe not all the time but it only takes one time to get nailed.....OR just one time to hit a curb.we all hit curbs, but if he disables his car etc.then the cops come....busted....and for what....the other thing is 1 of 2 things will happen now that he feels watched..he may straighten out ( which I hope that's the case, but its 'iffy)'....OR, he doubles his efforts to 'outsmart' everyone......:"
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
Honestly, you don't have to provide him evidence for him to know he's an alcoholic. He knows... if he is. He clearly isn't wanting to quit drinking, which is absolutely his choice, and in turn his consequences to face. I knew I was an alcoholic for YEARS before I quit drinking.. it made no difference to me, in fact I used it as an excuse for a very long time.
If he wants to quit, there's ways to do it. If he wants to drink, bluntly, it's his business.
If I had felt 'watched' or 'found out', I would have done a few things. Kept my drinking more in secret, and pushed away the people watching me. I lost lots of relationshps that way, most of them were unrecoverable.
If he's drinking and driving and anyone knows that he is, they have the LEGAL responsibility to alert the police.
If he wants to quit, there's ways to do it. If he wants to drink, bluntly, it's his business.
If I had felt 'watched' or 'found out', I would have done a few things. Kept my drinking more in secret, and pushed away the people watching me. I lost lots of relationshps that way, most of them were unrecoverable.
If he's drinking and driving and anyone knows that he is, they have the LEGAL responsibility to alert the police.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
I have to differ with you here, Smacked.
I did not know I had a problem until it was pointed out to me. I was just doing what I had done with ALL my friends since age 19--partying hard every day. The first thing I did when I walked in the door at night was crack open a beer. I would drink all night, pass out on the sofa, and get up in the morning and go to work. And no, waking up on weekend mornings with black eyes, throwing up all over myself, waking up swerving across three lanes of traffic did NOT register "problem" or "need to stop" in my brain or consciousness. I can't explain why not but I did not know any of my behavior was not normal, I had NO clue. I am grateful to the person who persisted in telling me I had a problem. But I don't want anyone to get me wrong here--It was ONE persistent conversation and that's all it took for me. He didn't need to bring it up again.
I did not know I had a problem until it was pointed out to me. I was just doing what I had done with ALL my friends since age 19--partying hard every day. The first thing I did when I walked in the door at night was crack open a beer. I would drink all night, pass out on the sofa, and get up in the morning and go to work. And no, waking up on weekend mornings with black eyes, throwing up all over myself, waking up swerving across three lanes of traffic did NOT register "problem" or "need to stop" in my brain or consciousness. I can't explain why not but I did not know any of my behavior was not normal, I had NO clue. I am grateful to the person who persisted in telling me I had a problem. But I don't want anyone to get me wrong here--It was ONE persistent conversation and that's all it took for me. He didn't need to bring it up again.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 545
I'm not sure that there is more to add to what LaTeeDa said, is there?
If he's being a jerk to the extent that his wife no longer wants to socialize with him AND he refuses to moderate his behavior, then Jerk is the cap that fits. "How rude!" as my friend would say. Alcohol(ism) may be a reason, but surely not an excuse.
Maybe you can send your SIL the link to SR? And please gently suggest that bringing a baby into the mix in the hop of getting him to grow up would not be the brightest idea.
If he's being a jerk to the extent that his wife no longer wants to socialize with him AND he refuses to moderate his behavior, then Jerk is the cap that fits. "How rude!" as my friend would say. Alcohol(ism) may be a reason, but surely not an excuse.
Maybe you can send your SIL the link to SR? And please gently suggest that bringing a baby into the mix in the hop of getting him to grow up would not be the brightest idea.
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
Originally Posted by Learn2Live 
I have to differ with you here, Smacked.
I did not know I had a problem until it was pointed out to me. I was just doing what I had done with ALL my friends since age 19--partying hard every day. The first thing I did when I walked in the door at night was crack open a beer. I would drink all night, pass out on the sofa, and get up in the morning and go to work. And no, waking up on weekend mornings with black eyes, throwing up all over myself, waking up swerving across three lanes of traffic did NOT register "problem" or "need to stop" in my brain or consciousness. I can't explain why not but I did not know any of my behavior was not normal, I had NO clue. I am grateful to the person who persisted in telling me I had a problem. But I don't want anyone to get me wrong here--It was ONE persistent conversation and that's all it took for me. He didn't need to bring it up again.
I did not know I had a problem until it was pointed out to me. I was just doing what I had done with ALL my friends since age 19--partying hard every day. The first thing I did when I walked in the door at night was crack open a beer. I would drink all night, pass out on the sofa, and get up in the morning and go to work. And no, waking up on weekend mornings with black eyes, throwing up all over myself, waking up swerving across three lanes of traffic did NOT register "problem" or "need to stop" in my brain or consciousness. I can't explain why not but I did not know any of my behavior was not normal, I had NO clue. I am grateful to the person who persisted in telling me I had a problem. But I don't want anyone to get me wrong here--It was ONE persistent conversation and that's all it took for me. He didn't need to bring it up again.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 14
I can relate to much of what you're describing. The same argument for immaturity is what I've used to justify much of my binge drinking. In fact, you can read my recent thread here:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-problems.html
I've also managed to avoid any major complications from my binging so far (DWIs, legal trouble, STDs, etc.). This makes it easier to convince myself and others that everything's fine. If I'm truthful with myself, I can admit that I could easily be just a night away from completely ruining my life. My luck won't last forever.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-problems.html
I've also managed to avoid any major complications from my binging so far (DWIs, legal trouble, STDs, etc.). This makes it easier to convince myself and others that everything's fine. If I'm truthful with myself, I can admit that I could easily be just a night away from completely ruining my life. My luck won't last forever.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 31
Binge, thanks for your link.
Again, the million dollar question here is: Does he just outgrow this, or does it become more frequent?
DWI: I do not know if he drinks & drives. I will find out. He may be risk-averse enough to know to take taxis. I know many alcoholics who "know thyself", and never EVER drink and drive. Self-survival. In fact, one intentionally avoided owning a car entirely, for YEARS, perhaps to avoid a DWI. Interestingly, his drinking did progress in his 30s. He now gets drunk at home, when he's got no seasonal work. But when there's work, he stops drinking, and works like crazy, 7 days a week.
Again, the million dollar question here is: Does he just outgrow this, or does it become more frequent?
DWI: I do not know if he drinks & drives. I will find out. He may be risk-averse enough to know to take taxis. I know many alcoholics who "know thyself", and never EVER drink and drive. Self-survival. In fact, one intentionally avoided owning a car entirely, for YEARS, perhaps to avoid a DWI. Interestingly, his drinking did progress in his 30s. He now gets drunk at home, when he's got no seasonal work. But when there's work, he stops drinking, and works like crazy, 7 days a week.
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