New member: question about "good" drugs
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2
New member: question about "good" drugs
I'm new to this forum and to Nar-Anon, because our daughter, addicted for 7 years, wouldn't accept rehab until recently. Anyway, a question...
A family member who is active in AA takes an absolute view of sobriety-- no drugs of any kind. But since addiction often originates in self-medication for emotional problems, it seems that an antidepressant (for example) could be the "correct" medication. Isn't it asking a lot of a person who felt the need to self-medicate, to say "just tough it out"? Is the absolute prohibition on pschoactive drugs a policy of AA and NA, or is this only one school of thought? What is the view among drug counselors?
I have pretty much the same question about methadone and any drug that has a similar purpose. In this case it's not a "good" drug that would have been prescribed without an addiction, but serves as a less harmful subsitute that can be tapered off. Where does this stand in the AA/NA framework?
A family member who is active in AA takes an absolute view of sobriety-- no drugs of any kind. But since addiction often originates in self-medication for emotional problems, it seems that an antidepressant (for example) could be the "correct" medication. Isn't it asking a lot of a person who felt the need to self-medicate, to say "just tough it out"? Is the absolute prohibition on pschoactive drugs a policy of AA and NA, or is this only one school of thought? What is the view among drug counselors?
I have pretty much the same question about methadone and any drug that has a similar purpose. In this case it's not a "good" drug that would have been prescribed without an addiction, but serves as a less harmful subsitute that can be tapered off. Where does this stand in the AA/NA framework?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
Wow, if that isn't the $1 million dollar question.
All I can share is what I observed at the 12 step rehab my daughter attended. She was detoxed and put on an antidepressant by medical staff, as were most of the patients. From what I understood, that's because their brain chemistry was so screwed up they needed the help. Answering your second question, they also put some patients on suboxone, depending on their situation.
This family member would be speaking for themselves only, as it pertains to their personal experience. To do otherwise, to speak about others sobriety and recovery, would be taking their inventory and not their own 
All I can share is what I observed at the 12 step rehab my daughter attended. She was detoxed and put on an antidepressant by medical staff, as were most of the patients. From what I understood, that's because their brain chemistry was so screwed up they needed the help. Answering your second question, they also put some patients on suboxone, depending on their situation.
A family member who is active in AA takes an absolute view of sobriety-- no drugs of any kind.
Heathen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: La La Land, USA
Posts: 2,567
I'll let folks who participate or have more knowledge of NA, AA and the like tackle the smaller points, but from MY experience (I am in recovery from alcohol and drug addiction both), AA is concerned about abstinence from alcohol. There are many people I know (again this is just MY experience) who are in AA and still abuse other drugs. NA, from what I know does take a harder "no mind altering substances" approach, which I take as well in my own recovery aside from NA.
AA and NA are only 2 of many many recovery programs.. I have been sucessful in MY recovery, without either, however I have worked VERY hard on my recovery.. so the two aren't mutually exclusive.
Now I'll let folks who have a better scoop and opinion on this stuff weigh in. Great questions!
AA and NA are only 2 of many many recovery programs.. I have been sucessful in MY recovery, without either, however I have worked VERY hard on my recovery.. so the two aren't mutually exclusive.
Now I'll let folks who have a better scoop and opinion on this stuff weigh in. Great questions!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,335
Taken from the dual recovery website (a website for people who are alcoholics/addicts and have another psychiatric diagnosis as well.)
"...A.A. members and many of their physicians have described situations in which depressed patients have been told by A.A.s to throw away the pills, only to have depression return with all its difficulties, sometimes resulting in suicide. We have heard, too, from schizophrenics, manic depressives, epileptics, and others requiring medication that well-meaning A.A. friends often discourage them from taking prescribed medication, Unfortunately, by following a layman's advice, the sufferers find that their conditions can return with all their previous intensity..."
"It becomes clear that just as it is wrong to enable or support any alcoholic to become readdicted to any drug, it's equally wrong to deprive any alcoholic of medication which can alleviate or control other disabling physical and/or emotional problems."
Reprinted from The A.A. Member - Medications & Other Drugs, with permission of A.A. World Services, Inc.
Narcotics Anonymous says they have no opinion on the issue of medications that are properly prescribed to control the symptoms of a psychiatric illness. When asked about this issue, N.A. Fellowship Services, states that "The question of prescription medication should be decided between the member, their doctor, and the member's Higher Power. Our pamphlet "In Times Of Illness" and our 10th Tradition, make this abundantly clear. We strongly recommend telling our doctor's about our history so that when prescription medication is absolutely necessary they can prescribe it knowing that we are recovering addicts."
We also must keep in mind that few recovering alcoholics and addicts in these groups are mental health and treatment professionals. Almost all are certainly well-meaning. Many don't fully understand the difference between the usual depressions and anxieties most recovering folks go through in early sobriety and our psychiatric illnesses--nor should they be expected to. Some people may falsely think that antidepressants are "mood elevators" much like the street drugs they may be familiar with. These are understandable misconceptions, but can lead to poor advice even from some of the "old-timers".
It is clear that no one should play the role of doctor but a licensed physician or psychiatrist. Sponsors and other well-meaning Twelfth Steppers should not give medical advice. DRA members who seek sponsors in other 12 Step groups must weigh carefully the potential sponsor's attitude and understanding concerning medications and psychiatric illnesses. We can not expect them to fully understand, but an attitude of acceptance toward the the nature of our dual disorder and the place properly prescribed medications play in our dual recovery is key. Experience has shown us that honesty is the basis for successful sponsorships.
DRA members do need to keep in mind when attending the various Twelve Step groups that the Traditions and Primary Purpose of each particular organization need to be respected. Those guidelines were developed through much hard won experience, that their meetings, purpose, and message, not be diluted with outside issues or controversy. Those programs were not developed to address the problems of dual disorders. They offer neither direction nor guidance for dual recovery. Most of these organizations are single-purpose organizations--one disease, one recovery. Dual recovery does not fall within their primary goals. It is our responsibility to manage our psychiatric illness in a healthy and constructive way and do what is best for our dual recoveries.
People who have a dual illness recognize that it cannot be divided into simple and separate parts. They acknowledge that while they do find support for aspects of their illness from many various 12 Step groups, they also need a group in which they can look at their total illness and recovery needs. Dual Recovery Anonymous was formed specifically to address the needs of individuals who had two no-fault illnesses: an emotional or psychiatric illness and chemical dependency. The DRA program is based on three simple ideas, that are suggested as a foundation for dual recovery.
Today, I will be free of alcohol and other intoxicating drugs.
Today, I will follow a healthy plan to manage my emotional or psychiatric illness.
Today, I will practice the Twelve Steps to the best of my ability.
DRA recognizes that psychiatric medications are used for the purpose of managing psychiatric symptoms and are not taken for the purpose of achieving a "high". Therefore, the use of psychiatric medications is not considered to be the same as relapse.
Note: Some individuals in dual recovery must take certain medications that can have a potential for abuse or physical dependence. These medications, when properly prescribed and taken precisely as directed, can be an important tool in controlling psychiatric symptoms and may be crucial to an individual's dual recovery and well-being. We use every caution with our medications and understand that at times, there just isn't another option available to us. Our doctors know best. We are rigorously honest with our doctors and treatment professionals in regards to our dual illnesses and our history of chemical dependency. When we take these medications in accordance with our doctors advice and our recovery plans they do not interfere with our sobriety or "clean time." Dual Recovery Anonymous recognizes that psychiatric medications can be an integral part of a recovering persons plan to manage their emotional or psychiatric illness in a healthy and constructive way.
"...A.A. members and many of their physicians have described situations in which depressed patients have been told by A.A.s to throw away the pills, only to have depression return with all its difficulties, sometimes resulting in suicide. We have heard, too, from schizophrenics, manic depressives, epileptics, and others requiring medication that well-meaning A.A. friends often discourage them from taking prescribed medication, Unfortunately, by following a layman's advice, the sufferers find that their conditions can return with all their previous intensity..."
"It becomes clear that just as it is wrong to enable or support any alcoholic to become readdicted to any drug, it's equally wrong to deprive any alcoholic of medication which can alleviate or control other disabling physical and/or emotional problems."
Reprinted from The A.A. Member - Medications & Other Drugs, with permission of A.A. World Services, Inc.
Narcotics Anonymous says they have no opinion on the issue of medications that are properly prescribed to control the symptoms of a psychiatric illness. When asked about this issue, N.A. Fellowship Services, states that "The question of prescription medication should be decided between the member, their doctor, and the member's Higher Power. Our pamphlet "In Times Of Illness" and our 10th Tradition, make this abundantly clear. We strongly recommend telling our doctor's about our history so that when prescription medication is absolutely necessary they can prescribe it knowing that we are recovering addicts."
We also must keep in mind that few recovering alcoholics and addicts in these groups are mental health and treatment professionals. Almost all are certainly well-meaning. Many don't fully understand the difference between the usual depressions and anxieties most recovering folks go through in early sobriety and our psychiatric illnesses--nor should they be expected to. Some people may falsely think that antidepressants are "mood elevators" much like the street drugs they may be familiar with. These are understandable misconceptions, but can lead to poor advice even from some of the "old-timers".
It is clear that no one should play the role of doctor but a licensed physician or psychiatrist. Sponsors and other well-meaning Twelfth Steppers should not give medical advice. DRA members who seek sponsors in other 12 Step groups must weigh carefully the potential sponsor's attitude and understanding concerning medications and psychiatric illnesses. We can not expect them to fully understand, but an attitude of acceptance toward the the nature of our dual disorder and the place properly prescribed medications play in our dual recovery is key. Experience has shown us that honesty is the basis for successful sponsorships.
DRA members do need to keep in mind when attending the various Twelve Step groups that the Traditions and Primary Purpose of each particular organization need to be respected. Those guidelines were developed through much hard won experience, that their meetings, purpose, and message, not be diluted with outside issues or controversy. Those programs were not developed to address the problems of dual disorders. They offer neither direction nor guidance for dual recovery. Most of these organizations are single-purpose organizations--one disease, one recovery. Dual recovery does not fall within their primary goals. It is our responsibility to manage our psychiatric illness in a healthy and constructive way and do what is best for our dual recoveries.
People who have a dual illness recognize that it cannot be divided into simple and separate parts. They acknowledge that while they do find support for aspects of their illness from many various 12 Step groups, they also need a group in which they can look at their total illness and recovery needs. Dual Recovery Anonymous was formed specifically to address the needs of individuals who had two no-fault illnesses: an emotional or psychiatric illness and chemical dependency. The DRA program is based on three simple ideas, that are suggested as a foundation for dual recovery.
Today, I will be free of alcohol and other intoxicating drugs.
Today, I will follow a healthy plan to manage my emotional or psychiatric illness.
Today, I will practice the Twelve Steps to the best of my ability.
DRA recognizes that psychiatric medications are used for the purpose of managing psychiatric symptoms and are not taken for the purpose of achieving a "high". Therefore, the use of psychiatric medications is not considered to be the same as relapse.
Note: Some individuals in dual recovery must take certain medications that can have a potential for abuse or physical dependence. These medications, when properly prescribed and taken precisely as directed, can be an important tool in controlling psychiatric symptoms and may be crucial to an individual's dual recovery and well-being. We use every caution with our medications and understand that at times, there just isn't another option available to us. Our doctors know best. We are rigorously honest with our doctors and treatment professionals in regards to our dual illnesses and our history of chemical dependency. When we take these medications in accordance with our doctors advice and our recovery plans they do not interfere with our sobriety or "clean time." Dual Recovery Anonymous recognizes that psychiatric medications can be an integral part of a recovering persons plan to manage their emotional or psychiatric illness in a healthy and constructive way.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: central coast, ca
Posts: 1,652
I know alot of parents at my daughters rehab had problems with ANY meds..like Lexapro, Prozac, Etc. that are not EVER used to get high. I think depression can be an underlying factor in addiction.. I myself am on Lexapro and it helps immensely, is not addictive, and the Dr.s told me was the way to go. Anti anxiety meds like Ativan and Xanax ARE addictive and can be used to get high. Obviously I am not a Dr. and cannot offer medical advice , but check out the specific meds would be my advice. I wish you you all good luck..
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
AA has no opinion on outside issues and that includes the proper treatment of clinical depression through qualified professionals.
I am one of those alcoholics, despite years of recovery and intensive 12-step work, who still suffered from depression that eventually became debilitating.
I am on, and probably will be on, antidepressants the rest of my life.
I treat my alcoholism through AA. I treat my mental health issues through the mental health profession.
True story...there was a lady manning an phone at an AA central office. She was one of the naysayers on any medications, period. A young man sober in AA, but struggling with extreme depression called that phone number for help. In the course of the conversation, he mentioned that he was on antidepressants. She gave him the 3rd degree on no drugs period (which again, is not AA 'policy'). That young man put a gun to his head and blew his brains out while on the phone with her.
She has to live with that the rest of her life. She now knows she is NOT equipped to deal with mental health issues, and had zero business berating that hurting young man for being on an antidepressant.
It is often suggested that it takes a year in recovery to properly diagnose mental health issues because the actual use of drugs and alcohol can cause these mental health issues. That is not always the case. Often people self-medicate because of their mental health issues.
I would leave it up to the professionals to decide what is best for your daughter.
As for how NA views it, that I could not tell you. My very limited experience with NA since 1986 is there is not a lot of quality recovery. Although I am also a recovering addict, my foundation is in AA. I have a solid home group, my sponsor has been sober 24 years, and I have been sober for 19 years now.
I hope this helps.
I am one of those alcoholics, despite years of recovery and intensive 12-step work, who still suffered from depression that eventually became debilitating.
I am on, and probably will be on, antidepressants the rest of my life.
I treat my alcoholism through AA. I treat my mental health issues through the mental health profession.
True story...there was a lady manning an phone at an AA central office. She was one of the naysayers on any medications, period. A young man sober in AA, but struggling with extreme depression called that phone number for help. In the course of the conversation, he mentioned that he was on antidepressants. She gave him the 3rd degree on no drugs period (which again, is not AA 'policy'). That young man put a gun to his head and blew his brains out while on the phone with her.
She has to live with that the rest of her life. She now knows she is NOT equipped to deal with mental health issues, and had zero business berating that hurting young man for being on an antidepressant.
It is often suggested that it takes a year in recovery to properly diagnose mental health issues because the actual use of drugs and alcohol can cause these mental health issues. That is not always the case. Often people self-medicate because of their mental health issues.
I would leave it up to the professionals to decide what is best for your daughter.
As for how NA views it, that I could not tell you. My very limited experience with NA since 1986 is there is not a lot of quality recovery. Although I am also a recovering addict, my foundation is in AA. I have a solid home group, my sponsor has been sober 24 years, and I have been sober for 19 years now.
I hope this helps.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,384
Welcome to Soberrecovery. My RABF is not in NA. He goes to a psychologist. He is on an antidepressant, and so am I. Anti-depressants are not considered to have much in the way of "abuse potential." I consider him to be "clean," even though he still takes that. He has a history of major depression, and probably will need to stay on it. He had the major depression before he had the drug problem. He was on Suboxone in the months after he started this recovery program. From what I've heard, there's been a lot of abuse by people on Methadone. There is also abuse by people on Suboxone. It is up to the person whether they are going to use it as an aid to get well or not.
I got nothin'
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: My house.
Posts: 4,890
I'm sober and I'm on meds for depression. Nothing I'm on is habit forming. My doctor knows my drinking history and absolutly will NOT prescribe benzos.
Medical concerns should be handled by the trained professionals.
Medical concerns should be handled by the trained professionals.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2
Effectiveness of 12-step programs?
Thanks for all the responses to my note and for the welcome. The responses taken together gave me a much better perspective on the issue. Here's something I'd like to ask about:
[QUOTE=Freedom1990;2623243]... My very limited experience with NA since 1986 is there is not a lot of quality recovery. Although I am also a recovering addict, my foundation is in AA. I have a solid home group, my sponsor has been sober 24 years, and I have been sober for 19 years now.
[QUOTE]
Since our daughter is going to NA, I'm concerned about this statement, which I take to mean that NA's results are medocre. It brings up a more general topic: what kind of research exists on the effectiveness of these programs? Just by organizing the effort and taking addiction seriously, the 12-step programs presumably have a good over-all effect, but I'm wondering what percentage of addicts finally get clean for good. I'm thinking especially of the truly physically addictive drugs whose grip is more than than emotional or psychological dependence. (I'm no expert, but it seems the worst in this category are heroin, crack, and crystal meth.) Our daughter's problem is heroin, and the history of heroin addicts doesn't look good, so I'm wondering what chance she has.
[QUOTE=Freedom1990;2623243]... My very limited experience with NA since 1986 is there is not a lot of quality recovery. Although I am also a recovering addict, my foundation is in AA. I have a solid home group, my sponsor has been sober 24 years, and I have been sober for 19 years now.
[QUOTE]
Since our daughter is going to NA, I'm concerned about this statement, which I take to mean that NA's results are medocre. It brings up a more general topic: what kind of research exists on the effectiveness of these programs? Just by organizing the effort and taking addiction seriously, the 12-step programs presumably have a good over-all effect, but I'm wondering what percentage of addicts finally get clean for good. I'm thinking especially of the truly physically addictive drugs whose grip is more than than emotional or psychological dependence. (I'm no expert, but it seems the worst in this category are heroin, crack, and crystal meth.) Our daughter's problem is heroin, and the history of heroin addicts doesn't look good, so I'm wondering what chance she has.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by MnDad 
Since our daughter is going to NA, I'm concerned about this statement, which I take to mean that NA's results are medocre. It brings up a more general topic: what kind of research exists on the effectiveness of these programs? Just by organizing the effort and taking addiction seriously, the 12-step programs presumably have a good over-all effect, but I'm wondering what percentage of addicts finally get clean for good. I'm thinking especially of the truly physically addictive drugs whose grip is more than than emotional or psychological dependence. (I'm no expert, but it seems the worst in this category are heroin, crack, and crystal meth.) Our daughter's problem is heroin, and the history of heroin addicts doesn't look good, so I'm wondering what chance she has.
Notice I said my limited experience with NA. I hail from a small town of 3000 not too far from Wichita Kansas. We had an NA group where I live 3 different times, and it folded due to lack of participation every time. I have been to a few NA meetings in the area, and that was it. I've stuck with AA ever since.
On the other hand, I have a dear friend who's clean 6 years now, up in the southern part of Washington state, and she has a very strong core NA home group up there. I am not saying all NA groups are as I described, only the ones I have been able to get to.
My drug of choice was crystal meth in the end (I was an IV user too), although alcohol always permeated my life, and as I said, I have 19 years now. I did relapse after 4 years, and was out there for 2 miserable months. I was blessed to make it back into recovery, and have been there ever since.
I was the single mother of two daughters when I relapsed, and I had relocated to an entirely new area where I had gone through rehab in order to get away from my then psychotic, violent addict/alcoholic husband.
There was no rehab a second time, there was no one to pick me up. I finally drug my defeated carcass up that long flight of stairs to my home group and started over again.
Your daughter's success in recovery will be directly proportional to her desire for a better life in recovery. It will have nothing to do with the 'rates' out there, guaranteed. Those are far too often used as an excuse to relapse.
I strongly encourage you to seek out Alanon or Naranon meetings for yourself and your spouse, and begin your own healing from the effects of having addiction in your lives through your daughter.
Work your own program like you hope she works hers.
The best help I can be to anyone else is to live an active program of recovery in my own life.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
Originally Posted by MnDad
Our daughter's problem is heroin, and the history of heroin addicts doesn't look good, so I'm wondering what chance she has.
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