Hope4Recovery

Good morning everybody! It's a beautiful Saturday morning and so wonderful to wake up sober and hopeful for another day of sobriety. Today is my 31st day without alcohol and I'm feeling strong and ready to face another day. I had a long conversation with my wife last night about statistics of relapse amongst alcoholics and addicts and was wondering when does the obsession end. I am very early on in my efforts to "control" this uncontrollable condition and have moments of hopelessness. I don't want to spend my life obsessed with my alcoholism. It seems the nature of this condition is to obsess over the booze - whether using or not using. I want to be free but it seems almost impossible. I'm just as obsessed with not drinking as i was with drinking - possibly more. I just want to be a normal person but as my brain clears i realize this is not going to be easy. I know many of you attend AA daily or several times daily and still relapse. My neighbor's father has been sober for 20 years with AA support and recently relapsed. The relapse rates are very depressing. Accepting that I have a lifelong problem is very difficult. I imagine most of you wouldn't be here if you didn't need the support to remain sober - even if you have a lot of clean time under your belt. Does this ever end? I have a lot of plans and feel highly motivated to live my life sober right now. I just want the constant thought of my alcoholism to go away. I hope it gets easier with time. Every post i make here is a step in the right direction in my recovery. The wisdom of others here has helped immensely. Have any of you been successful at putting the addictions behind you?. By this, i mean being successful at sobriety without making it a daily struggle and part of your identity - as if the addiction doesn't even exist. i know there are no easy answers, I am just hoping it will get easier with time. I have no intentions of drinking today - which is good. Let's hope tomorrow is the same. Thanks.

By the way, I am reading the Big Book and doing my best to work the steps. This is helping me stay sober but not decreasing the obsession with the alcoholism.

yeahgr8

I worked the steps and had my spiritual awakening which is the AA program i know...i went to an AA meeting 3 weeks ago as i have been travelling on hols, i sleep with a fully stocked mini bar in the room of the Hotel, i eat most meals with a complimentary drink put in front of me and everytime i go out people are drinking...does it bother me in the slightest...not even for a nanosecond...why?

I worked the steps and had my spiritual awakening which is the AA program

If you wanna get recovered and live life to the fullest being able to go anywhere and do anything you choose to do then you could do what i did or something else that works...never found anything else that worked for me and tried it all...

BTW actually working the steps involves work...going to meetings doesn't which is why you may find that a lot of people simply dont do them...one route is obsession and the other freedom...simple as:-)

FBL

First, congrats on your sober time! I was a daily drunk for 10 years and a weekly binger for the 20 years before that. I found out that not drinking was the easy part, the hard part has been figuring out WHY I drank in the first place. I think that's why so many do fail, they never get to the root cause. I figured that I put so much work into getting drunk, that I'd better work at staying sober. That was almost one year ago and today I am free of any thoughts of drinking. I did it without any formal program, but I realize that's not for everybody. From what I've heard and read from others, if you truly work at the program of your choice, you'll have a much better chance of success.

I'm living proof that it's never too late to change. I do wish you well.

Hope4Recovery

I respect your success and spiritual awakening. But, when does one become "recovered"? I am not living on an island where i don't have access to alcohol - I too have been successful in not drinking in the presence of alcohol. My neighbor's father also had a spiritual awakening but relapsed nonetheless. I am thinking people do not become "recovered", but are in a constant state of recovery. This is what troubles me - the lifelong process. A I pointed out in my previous post, you probably wouldn't be here if the spiritual awakening was enough. I see the spiritual awakening as reaching a state of "nirvana" - where we are free of all desires, so to speak. This process is not easy and not accomplished by many. We have so many desires in life that make this process difficult - for example, needing money to pay our bills, desires to become successful, etc. My point is, that for all of us, this is a long road with a lot of hard work. You should be proud of your success though - especially with both alcohol and gambling, and the fact that you are faced with temptation (i.e., mini bars, complimentary drinks) on a regular basis. Thanks for your input. I wish you ongoing success!

Hope4Recovery

Good question,why do I drink? My father is alcoholic and I was raised (by my mother) to understand alcoholism and the consequences. This awareness kept me out of the woods for most of my 20's. That being said, i found myself drinking regularly by my early 30's with brief periods of sobriety along the way. i am 39 now. I'm thinking alcoholism is at least partly genetic. Don't know for sure. My life could be better but it is fairly good overall. I even have reasonably good coping skills with the exception of substance abuse. But, 30 days, a year, 20 years - relapse is still waiting around the corner for all of us. This sucks. I guess I'm just venting and still coming to terms with things. Everyday sober is better than the last one drinking. This I know for sure.

yeahgr8

I come to SR cos ive been here in addiction and into recovery and its nice to see familiar faces and to post about what im up to in the hope it might inspire someone else to get help...i also value the opinions and experience of people with longer term sobriety and different recovery methods to mine:-)

Do you see me posting about needing help? Or questions about recovery or daily living? Nope you dont! Why because through the steps and the change in myself (another way to put spiritual awkening) i dont have issues with alcohol anymore and have changed and am changing into the person i was meant to be...

I would be back at the bar in a flash if you told me i had to live with any obsession...i wouldnt have it, no way! I dont agree that it is a long hard road, it is actually quite simple...all one has to do is to have a drastic enough change in themselves to remove the obsession and happy days!

Anyone is free to make the process as complicated or as simple as they like, if someone wants to keep winging it for the rest of their lives and fight the good fight against alcohol then that is up to them, its not for me though and anyone can do what i did when they are ready...

Questioning all this is great, i even went to 12 step rehab before finally getting into AA...i too knew someone, a friends Dad,who was sober for years and years and drank again...he too was supposedly recovered...when you get on the program, and i mean working the steps etc, you will understand why i take someone claiming that they are recovered and then next minute drinking with a pinch of salt...because recoevered people dont drink...hanging off of AA meetings wont keep you sober and a lot of people think that is what it takes to get recovered...it isnt...

As for all the other day to day living stuff that most of the world do with ease all their lives but causes us such problems, that all falls into place as it has done for me:-)

Hope4Recovery

Thanks. You can be an example for all of us. i guess my neighbor's father hasn't been working the 12 steps so well despite his 20 years. By the way, he is back in recovery now. The relapse lasted about two months. Even though I'm not an expert, it is always good to be humble and aware that people do relapse and it usually isn't something they plan on doing. Just my opinion. I thank you again for the information. Maybe things will be clearer for me as time passes. The spiritual awakening process for me will take longer as I subscribe more to Buddhist philosophy as opposed to Christianity. This process requires work and will not occur instantaneously (much like the 12 steps ). I appreciate you taking the time to help me this morning - very valuable. I'm not completely sold but it is helpful.

vegibean

Hi Hope4! You're asking some really good questions, and I hope what I have to share will help you.

I had the benefit of being in a treatment center while getting sober and I was there for 10 months. It was a great place I went, they really helped you from beginning to end, and there aren't a lot of places like that. I mean, right down to getting a job so you're working and even finding a place to live, so for someone like me who didn't have family, it was awesome for a new beginning. The major benefit I had by being there was I had cravings well up to 90 days but being in "the four walls" I was safe from myself. So I had a cushion, I do feel for you.

Once I got past those 90 days though, the cravings seemed to dissipate. The best way for me to describe what was going on was I had a bad habit that I got used to having all the time and to have it taken out of my life (and I wanted it gone) my mind still went right to "I want a drink" when things were bad or good. It took time for that to go away. Maybe you'll be different, maybe sooner for you. Another lesson for me was not to compare myself to others.

With that, yes, people relapse. You know what else? We're human, we are not perfect, that statistic shouldn't be staggering to you at all. I've had people ask me "so you're never going to drink again for the rest of your life?" And really, how do I know that? I know that I have no plans to pick up today, tomorrow, next week, month or year and so on. You know what that also does for me? It takes the pressure off. I know you've probably read it and heard it, "one day at a time." Sometimes I have to take ANYTHING in my life one second, minute, hour........

Everyone is different, however my suggestion because this is what worked for me when I was struggling to get sober the first time, yep, then relapsed, and sober again, was to go to a meeting and share. Even just going to the meeting helped because everyone else seemed to give me hope and strength to get through that day and not pick up, it was empowering.

Hope4, you're doing great, just remember, it's just for today, just today you have to get through. We have all been there and I think everyone has gone through exactly what you're going through, so you are not alone!!!

In ending, I also PROMISE you that this gets better. I don't even know you and I'm telling you "I promise you", and I mean it too. Hang in there, you can do this, it will get better. My very best to you!!!

vegibean

You said you're reading the BB and trying to work the steps...... do you not have a sponsor?

To add, I thought that having a sponsor was ridiculous and now I am the biggest fan of having one, calling them every day, and working the steps.

Good luck!!

Hope4Recovery

Thank you so much. The entire conversation with my wife started last night when she asked if I planned on not drinking "forever". I replied, "I can't guarantee that but I can guarantee that I won't drink today". This is where I am at. I can also guarantee I won't drink again today. One day at a time is working so far for me. I'm actually doing OK - i am just searching for truth - and, i like to debate and think things through to learn new ideas. I'm sure my path will be different than others but hopefully lead to the same place.

Hope4Recovery

Don't have a sponsor yet. But don't feel it is ridiculous either. I'm extremely busy until the end of June. I don't get home from work until around 7:00 and I am taking a month long graduate course that is taking up most of my free time after work. Plus, I've been so tired. Falling asleep by 9:00 every night. I've been so busy that there is no time for drinking. This is working for now but won't last once my evening are free.

intention

Hi hope4recovery,

If you have your Big Book near you then I suggest that you read the paragraph at the bottom of p84 and over onto p85, ending with the sentence "That is how we react so long as we keep in fir spiritual condition"


These are the Step 10 promises and it was these promises which led me to working the program. They promise us that the problem of alcohol gets removed and I will say this has happened for me now. I no longer see alcohol or think about it so I no longer have to try to be sober anymore.

As to the point of relapsing after a spiritual awakening, then the final sentence explains that. This 12 step program is about growing spiritually all the time. If you stop growing, then there will come a point where you are no longer fit spiritually - that's when the obsession to drink will come back again and it is likely you may relapse, because us alcoholics have no mental defense against that obsession.


Well done on your sober time.

artsoul

Hi Hope - I can relate to your post. (I've got about the same number of days sober and my spiritual program isn't mainstream either). Right now, I can say that I spend at least as much time thinking about not drinking as I did drinking. I'm spending probably 2-3 hours or more on SR every day. But things really are slowly improving and changing. I'm starting to exercise, get more work done, do things with my daughters, etc.

Being more of the eastern spirituality, perhaps not resisting (accepting, being the observer, etc) would be one way to go. Also, think of it as a positive, rather than negative obsession.... turn that thought of "not drinking" into a thought of embracing a new sober life......

I'm just fishing here, but I had to respond, since we have some things in common.

porkchopped

Hope!

That is a great question and one I have been pondering for a while myself. Thanks to all that responded as well.

I am wondering, is there something "different" about alcohol versus say, cigarettes? Why is it that someone can be addicted to cigarettes and (some) do not require daily maintenance in the form of a spiritual awakening or attending meetings? They are simply done with it.

Is it that smoking is considered a bad habit versus a disease?

So if someone quits drinking because it is bad for their health or they don't like the way it makes them feel, are they in denial about being and alcoholic and they will have a journey fraught with relapse peril if they don't subscribe to some program?

My dad for example, he would by any assessment I found on "being an alcoholic" have passed with flying colors. He had a health scare and just quit one day, just like a did with cigarettes 40 years ago.

I guess I am confused as to why it cannot be like a light switch - but then I see all these people come back saying that they have "abstained" versus "recovered". So then I wonder if there is some component that I am not understanding?? If drinking wasn't the center of your universe, does sobriety have to become it?

I guess I too wonder if there is an obsession thing - first with alcohol and then with not drinking?

I do read these posts because I want an understanding. Is seeking a fill a void (any void) just an overall human condition - whether you drink or not? Some people are into athletics, watching or laying, others have church or knitting, spending time with family? If you were once a drinker, are you then pegged as someone who needs "help" for the rest of your days?

I know everyones experience in what being sober means is different; I find the topic fascinating though.

Would appreciate your insight

Thanks!!

Hope4Recovery

I like the idea of reframing things in a more positive way of "embracing a new sober life" rather than the negative approach - very helpful. I should have thought of this myself. My life is also slowly improving - I am going to school, functioning much better at work, getting chores done, etc. Big changes for me. Still not exercising yet but it is on my list. Exercise was a great tool for me during my twenties before the drinking took over - I felt great when i was physically fit. The strange part is that while i was drinking I probably spent about an hour each morning thinking "I can't keep doing this" and then about 5 minutes thinking about it before i got to the bar after work. Now, I wake up feeling hopeful and really not thinking about it but end up thinking quite a bit about things at night after work. I find that keeping myself busy keeps the thoughts away. Even when I'm stressed at work, I don't think about drinking - i think about solutions to reducing the stress. Its that time after work that is still triggering the thoughts. Glad you are doing well and thanks for the input.

Hope4Recovery

Exactly the same questions i am asking myself. I quit smoking cigarettes twice - once for 5 years and once for 3 years - ended up relapsing both times but did not require any type of "maintenance" or spiritual awakening at least while i wasn't smoking. Although the patterns that led to my relapses with cigarettes were similar to patterns for people relapsing with alcohol. The first time I thought "its been 5 years, I can smoke one or two", the second time my girlfriend bailed out on me and I said "F@#$ it, I'm gonna smoke some cigarettes". Plus, I believe there are quite a few caffeine and cigarette addicts in recovery from alcohol. Is alcohol different? It seems many people here would argue that it is. For me, don't know. One thing I do know is that the next time i quit cigarettes i will never go back. It isn't as easy to say this with alcohol. The bottom line for me is this; people have different experiences with developing addictions and with recovering from addictions. Just like most medical problems and mental health problems, we (including doctors and professionals) only have a biased perception as to what is going on with these things. I know this because i am a mental health professional. Years ago, we would tell people with schizophrenia that they have a chronic condition and "need" medication to control it. Now we know that some people with schizophrenia get better with medication, some get worse even with the medication, and some spontaneously recover without medication. Take a look at the success rates of D&A rehabs and treatment programs - it is pretty clear that this is not an exact science, just like other medical problems. Most health problems, including addiction and mental health issues, are best treated with life style changes. The difficult part is how to implement these life style changes. My opinion is that there is no recipe or cookbook. Every person has his or her path. What works for some may not work for others. Sorry to ramble off topic. And don't take my opinions as medical advice - just opinions based on experiences.

Chops

My experience is different. Going to meetings keeps me sober.

intention

I rarely think about being sober but my spirituality (my God) is at the centre of my Universe. I think about it most of my waking hours. But it is not something that I feel I have to do, it is something I feel that I want to do......it's enjoyable.

Before I had a spiritual awakening, I used to quit drinking a lot and when I had quit, I spent all my time thinking about not drinking. My head was full of - I'm not drinking today, I've been sober 4 weeks and I am doing so well, look I've made it through the supermarket without picking up a bottle, if I was drinking I would have drunk at this time of day, I've just watched my favourite TV show without a drink - great, I'm going to bed sober - great, I've been in a pub and not had a drink....

It just went on and on all day thinking about not drinking. It drove me insane and was worse than drinking for me. At least when I was drinking, I got to have oblivion and that meant no more thinking.

With a spiritual awakening I no longer think of drinking or not drinking. I just don't think about it. "The problem has been removed"


Normal drinker wants to relax with a drink, so has one, relaxes and feels great.

Alcoholic wants to relax with a drink, so has one, feels anything but relaxed and wants more.

Normal person wants to relax on their day off, so watches some sports. Enjoys it, feels relaxed and it fills their day.

Alcoholic wants to relax on their day off, so watches some sports. Does not relax and feels that something is missing. So watches another sport but that is not right either. So phones a friend to relax but does not feel relaxed after. So tries phoning another friend, that doesn't work either. Thinks all friends are not good enough, so decides to get some more friends. So goes on internet looking for friends. Can't find any new "right" friends on the internet, so decides to treat himself to something nice in the shops to make himself feel better. Buys the new shirt that he has been wanted for ages, gets it home, decides it's the wrong colour. I could go on and on but eventually the alcoholic will work out that the only thing that makes him relax or feel better is another drink......and you now where that leads.

Basically alcoholics do and feel things just like normal people but we don't do them in normal ways. We do them to excess because we always want more and are never satisfied as we seem to be filling some "void" within us.

StevenD

It's true, many of us alcoholics smoke. Sadly, I'm one of them. I think cigarettes are evil and are slowly killing me. I know that to be true and I plan to quit that addiction next.

However, for me, my alcohol addiction is MUCH worse than my cigarette addiction. Yes, it's true, both will kill me. The difference is, when I smoke a cigarette, I don't black out, call my friends and family with insane accusations and lies, go to jail, go to psych wards........the list goes on and on. When I smoke a cigarette I finish it and resume my daily life. I still work on recovery and being a better person, even while I smoke. I cannot say the same for when I drink.

I chose to battle the biggest demon first....alcohol. Next will be cigarettes although I am not too worried about that one at the moment.

My end goal is to be totally substance free. Just for today, I won't drink and I know that the day will come when I quit the cigarettes too. I have a ZERO chance of quitting smoking if I still drink and drug.

Just wanted to share how I feel about my different addictions...I am so grateful that the weekend is here and I'm not hung over and/or drinking.

Have a great day everyone!

Steven

intention

Just forgot to add on the difference or not between cigarettes and alcohol, analysing is OK but as I said, alcoholics do everything in excess. If you keep analysing something over and over looking for an answer when maybe there isn't one, or the right one, or looking for it is not helpful to you......then maybe it is not a good idea.


Alcohol is "cunning, baffling and powerful" and has been known to distract alcoholics in all sorts of ways which end up with them picking up the drink again.

I was a 40 to 60 day smoker and gave it up relatively easy compared to alcohol. But I see alcoholics in AA, who have quit drinking but are smoking themselves to death.

We have a saying in AA about concentrating on living in the solution rather than the problem and that's how we can stay sober.