not an alcoholic, but....
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not an alcoholic, but....
first of all, I want to apologize for squatting in this forum, but I believe folks here might be able to offer some advice, as I think my situation is comparable to the family members of alcoholics. I did the Al-Anon test and I would fit right in, so bear with me.
My now-ex husband is a hypochondriac, not an alcoholic. I won't go into details, but there are plenty of them, and he has been recommended for psychological evaluation a few times. He has been to see some of the best doctors in the world, too. I have tried to talk with him about his behavior but I am always "mean" and "unsympathetic." This was a key factor in our divorce.
I should say that one of the challenges of this sort of behavior which would be different from alcoholics is that sometimes a person DOES have a problem. If X has a minor growth removed, he is dying. If he has something more moderate or a moderate test such as a colonscopy, life has ended or he will be dead at fifty, that sort of thing. As a family member, it is hard to know how to draw the line.
I'd like to think that this is not my problem since he is an ex, but there are two reasons why it is. One is that he uses illness as a way to avoid responsibility. This was true in our marriage but continues now (I can't pay child support on time because I am sick--have pity on me & you're mean and cold if you don't). The other is that our daughter has begun some of the same ploys--I'm sick, I can't go to day care, etc.. She's been to the doctor unnecessarily a number of times, too--literally for a mosquito bite! I think I have handled some of these situations pretty well, but she is not learning good body awareness lessons and is trying to manipulate using the same tactics.
We see a conflict mediator and this situation has become frustrating enough that I want to bring it up with him. I know that families of alcoholics may have to deal with situations where they confront their loved ones on their behavior and I need some advice. How do I do that? Should I do that?
I am not sorry he is my ex but I do still care about him and he needs help. I don't see it as my responsibility to get him help, but his behavior still affects me, and our daughter.
Please, any advice that you can offer would be beneficial. Do you see parallels, too? Where do I start?
My now-ex husband is a hypochondriac, not an alcoholic. I won't go into details, but there are plenty of them, and he has been recommended for psychological evaluation a few times. He has been to see some of the best doctors in the world, too. I have tried to talk with him about his behavior but I am always "mean" and "unsympathetic." This was a key factor in our divorce.
I should say that one of the challenges of this sort of behavior which would be different from alcoholics is that sometimes a person DOES have a problem. If X has a minor growth removed, he is dying. If he has something more moderate or a moderate test such as a colonscopy, life has ended or he will be dead at fifty, that sort of thing. As a family member, it is hard to know how to draw the line.
I'd like to think that this is not my problem since he is an ex, but there are two reasons why it is. One is that he uses illness as a way to avoid responsibility. This was true in our marriage but continues now (I can't pay child support on time because I am sick--have pity on me & you're mean and cold if you don't). The other is that our daughter has begun some of the same ploys--I'm sick, I can't go to day care, etc.. She's been to the doctor unnecessarily a number of times, too--literally for a mosquito bite! I think I have handled some of these situations pretty well, but she is not learning good body awareness lessons and is trying to manipulate using the same tactics.
We see a conflict mediator and this situation has become frustrating enough that I want to bring it up with him. I know that families of alcoholics may have to deal with situations where they confront their loved ones on their behavior and I need some advice. How do I do that? Should I do that?
I am not sorry he is my ex but I do still care about him and he needs help. I don't see it as my responsibility to get him help, but his behavior still affects me, and our daughter.
Please, any advice that you can offer would be beneficial. Do you see parallels, too? Where do I start?
Psalm 118:24
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Alcohol is but a symptom of our disease !!
Not drinkin wasn't so hard for me, it was learning to live life on life's terms.
One of my favorite saying in AA I didn't steal and cheat because I drank, I drank becuase, I cheated and stole!
What draws you into here if, your husband isn't an alcoholic though???
Not drinkin wasn't so hard for me, it was learning to live life on life's terms.
One of my favorite saying in AA I didn't steal and cheat because I drank, I drank becuase, I cheated and stole!
What draws you into here if, your husband isn't an alcoholic though???
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I'm here because I see parallels with the codependency issues--as I mentioned, I would score highly on the Al-Anon test!
Examples: Financial issues--absolutely. Can you say thousands in medical bills, doctor shopping, enabling parents, denial? I didn't smell breath but I did check to see if he was taking prescriptions (often for depression problems). I got him prescriptions and was driving him to the emergency room for NON-problems in the middle of the night. Holidays ruined--yes. Meals interrupted, yes yes.
Also, I cannot find anything for families of hypochondriacs--there is a forum for hypochondriacs, but not for people who are trying to deal with them.
I do NOT want to see our daughter go down the same path and want her to have healthy body awareness. It is important to me to try to make sure that I model healthy behaviors. So that is my #1 motivation.
Examples: Financial issues--absolutely. Can you say thousands in medical bills, doctor shopping, enabling parents, denial? I didn't smell breath but I did check to see if he was taking prescriptions (often for depression problems). I got him prescriptions and was driving him to the emergency room for NON-problems in the middle of the night. Holidays ruined--yes. Meals interrupted, yes yes.
Also, I cannot find anything for families of hypochondriacs--there is a forum for hypochondriacs, but not for people who are trying to deal with them.
I do NOT want to see our daughter go down the same path and want her to have healthy body awareness. It is important to me to try to make sure that I model healthy behaviors. So that is my #1 motivation.
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I can see where you might fit in here - this board is for co-dependents. I no longer have any contact with XAH but come to this forum frequently! Have you read any of the literature on co-dependency? Do you think this 'fits' you?
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Oh--one other thing. Hypochondria runs in his family. His mother is a nurse and as a child, he told me he pretended to be sick in order to avoid going to school. This was, evidently, a pretty pronounced problem, too.
All right, I'll be quiet now. Key question: Confront, and if so, how? I've tried before and just get labeled the beeyotch.
All right, I'll be quiet now. Key question: Confront, and if so, how? I've tried before and just get labeled the beeyotch.
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Thanks for making me feel I am not nuts for posting here. Have I read literature on codependency issues--yes. That is where I began to see parallels. But I am not working steps or anything like that--I just began to think about this recently and needed support, so here I am.
Confronting, or trying to--this is where I need advice. Should I? I would do so in a counseling session. I have tried to point out effects on our daughter. X denies hypochondria because, after all, sometimes there IS something wrong. But that minor or even moderate problem becomes an excuse, and, I should add, sometimes comes after massive doctor shopping. Even then the problem is frequently exaggerated.
However, at this point, the manipulation is what has me most steamed, and I need some tactics to avoid getting sucked into his drama. I have detached and have contact w/him only wrt our daughter at this point.
Confronting, or trying to--this is where I need advice. Should I? I would do so in a counseling session. I have tried to point out effects on our daughter. X denies hypochondria because, after all, sometimes there IS something wrong. But that minor or even moderate problem becomes an excuse, and, I should add, sometimes comes after massive doctor shopping. Even then the problem is frequently exaggerated.
However, at this point, the manipulation is what has me most steamed, and I need some tactics to avoid getting sucked into his drama. I have detached and have contact w/him only wrt our daughter at this point.
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Oh--you mean, how have I confronted in past?
I have said things like:
-You seem to have less health anxiety when you are seeing a psychologist (he doesn't keep up with it)
-You have had three recommendations for psychological treatment due to health anxiety problems.
(response is typically "But there IS something wrong. I had problem XXX." And sometimes that is true, but again, it became an excuse for any and everything, and ex exaggerates and manipulates.)
-Our daughter is beginning to tell me she is too sick to go to day care.
-You played six hours of sports but when I asked you to mow the lawn or paint or do something else, you are "too sick."
I have said things like:
-You seem to have less health anxiety when you are seeing a psychologist (he doesn't keep up with it)
-You have had three recommendations for psychological treatment due to health anxiety problems.
(response is typically "But there IS something wrong. I had problem XXX." And sometimes that is true, but again, it became an excuse for any and everything, and ex exaggerates and manipulates.)
-Our daughter is beginning to tell me she is too sick to go to day care.
-You played six hours of sports but when I asked you to mow the lawn or paint or do something else, you are "too sick."
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Proactive confrontation:
My therapist advised me to say to my husband, "I know you're not ready to deal with your (insert issue here), but you're forcing the rest of us to deal with it and that's not right."
From there, I went to classic boundaries, "If you (specific behavior), I will share my feelings. If you continue (same as above), I will (specific action I will take) to take care of myself."
In your case that means advocating for your daughter, too.
A little while back, with the encouragement of my therapist, I did a lot of studying about personality types (large portion is inherited). I can't remember which type of introvert, but hypochondria is part of it, along with narcissism. I read that without early intervention, it's almost impossible to treat an adult hypochondriac (guess you've already learned that).
I'd say yes to confrontation but only as long as it's proactive concerning yourself and daughter.
My therapist advised me to say to my husband, "I know you're not ready to deal with your (insert issue here), but you're forcing the rest of us to deal with it and that's not right."
From there, I went to classic boundaries, "If you (specific behavior), I will share my feelings. If you continue (same as above), I will (specific action I will take) to take care of myself."
In your case that means advocating for your daughter, too.
A little while back, with the encouragement of my therapist, I did a lot of studying about personality types (large portion is inherited). I can't remember which type of introvert, but hypochondria is part of it, along with narcissism. I read that without early intervention, it's almost impossible to treat an adult hypochondriac (guess you've already learned that).
I'd say yes to confrontation but only as long as it's proactive concerning yourself and daughter.
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I can't imagine that anything you say to him is going to make one tiny bit of difference in his behavior. For a long time I thought if I just found the right words, the right moment, the right example, the right emotion, that the clouds would part and there would be some big revelation on his end. Nope. I've finally detached from him and his outcomes and I no longer even desire to have those talks with him. Confrontation gets us no where and probably makes everything worse - just more water under a bridge that is already nearly sunk. ETA: He needs intensive treatment from mental health professionals to change his behavior. He knows that and he knows where to find it. You can't do it for him. That is one of the big things we learn as co-dependents. 
We didn't cause it. We can't control it. We can't cure it.
What do you want for your outcomes?
Child Support? - Pursue any legal means that you can. That is all you can really do IMO.
Best support for your daughter? I don't know much about hypochondria but I'd get her to a therapist. One that will work with her individually and give you lots of advice. If your ex is exploiting her tendencies towards hypochondria then I'd speak with both the mediator and a therapist about options and advice.
We didn't cause it. We can't control it. We can't cure it. What do you want for your outcomes?
Child Support? - Pursue any legal means that you can. That is all you can really do IMO.
Best support for your daughter? I don't know much about hypochondria but I'd get her to a therapist. One that will work with her individually and give you lots of advice. If your ex is exploiting her tendencies towards hypochondria then I'd speak with both the mediator and a therapist about options and advice.
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Thanks. I made an appointment for Wednesday.
I have work to do on the boundary issue. However, I was proud that when X (predictably) called in the middle of the night with an "emergency," I did not answer the phone.
But here is an issue. What happens if he is not crying wolf sometime? I cannot imagine how awful it would be if X DID have an issue and called for help and I would not respond. How do I set a boundary that is firm but reasonable? I need some recommendations.
Here is the other thing: the problem extends to the illness of others. X panics in the face of all health-related problems (except mine, but that's another story). His girlfriend had a problem and he roared by knocking on the door to drop off D, intruding on my free time.
the GF might or might not have had a problem--but given X's tendency towards exaggeration and panic, I am betting it did not merit dragging me and D into it.
I have work to do on the boundary issue. However, I was proud that when X (predictably) called in the middle of the night with an "emergency," I did not answer the phone.
But here is an issue. What happens if he is not crying wolf sometime? I cannot imagine how awful it would be if X DID have an issue and called for help and I would not respond. How do I set a boundary that is firm but reasonable? I need some recommendations.
Here is the other thing: the problem extends to the illness of others. X panics in the face of all health-related problems (except mine, but that's another story). His girlfriend had a problem and he roared by knocking on the door to drop off D, intruding on my free time.
the GF might or might not have had a problem--but given X's tendency towards exaggeration and panic, I am betting it did not merit dragging me and D into it.
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What do I want for outcomes?
-more even distribution of child support, child support paid promptly and without excuses and self-pitying statements.
-I want him to stop telling me that he is "too sick" for this and that, and to do what he has agreed to do, especially when it comes to spending time w/our D.
-I want him to recognize the effect that he is having on D. It would be great if he would quit catering to every boo-boo, but this is one of those things that I cannot prevent. Because she is mimicking his behavior, I worry that there is a chance that she will really be sick and I will miss it. So the whole problem is, for lack of a better word, contagious.
-more even distribution of child support, child support paid promptly and without excuses and self-pitying statements.
-I want him to stop telling me that he is "too sick" for this and that, and to do what he has agreed to do, especially when it comes to spending time w/our D.
-I want him to recognize the effect that he is having on D. It would be great if he would quit catering to every boo-boo, but this is one of those things that I cannot prevent. Because she is mimicking his behavior, I worry that there is a chance that she will really be sick and I will miss it. So the whole problem is, for lack of a better word, contagious.
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Our divorce was fairly recent, so no, I haven't. To this point, we have been seeing this conflict resolution psychologist (it is in our agreement to do that before going to attorneys) and I did share the "health issues" thing with him. Things were fairly smooth sailing until the girlfriend incident, which is what brought me here. He will call it "an emergency" and nothing like this has happened for probably three years. But it still affected me and I want to be clear that this is not to set a precedent.
I wasn't all that worried or upset about the support (he paid but was late) until more recently. Again, things were fairly smooth sailing. job situation changed and I believe I do need to have a line drawn now. Before I call for contempt of court, I will tell him that is what I will be doing if he misses in the future.
I am just tired of the dog and pony show of "I'm too sick to....." As I am writing this, I am sorting through how much it affects me now that I have detached and have no contact with him.
Again, it's our daughter in particular who concerns me. I have shared some of the incidents with my attorney; lately X was somewhat better-behaved but we got the health panic this weekend.
I am hoping the psychologist can help to direct this conversation from arguing about just how "sick" X is to a more productive conversation re. the boundaries that must be in place.
I wasn't all that worried or upset about the support (he paid but was late) until more recently. Again, things were fairly smooth sailing. job situation changed and I believe I do need to have a line drawn now. Before I call for contempt of court, I will tell him that is what I will be doing if he misses in the future.
I am just tired of the dog and pony show of "I'm too sick to....." As I am writing this, I am sorting through how much it affects me now that I have detached and have no contact with him.
Again, it's our daughter in particular who concerns me. I have shared some of the incidents with my attorney; lately X was somewhat better-behaved but we got the health panic this weekend.
I am hoping the psychologist can help to direct this conversation from arguing about just how "sick" X is to a more productive conversation re. the boundaries that must be in place.
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Originally Posted by bret 
But here is an issue. What happens if he is not crying wolf sometime?
His girlfriend had a problem and he roared by knocking on the door to drop off D, intruding on my free time.
Originally Posted by bret
What do I want for outcomes?
-more even distribution of child support, child support paid promptly and without excuses and self-pitying statements.
-I want him to stop telling me that he is "too sick" for this and that, and to do what he has agreed to do, especially when it comes to spending time w/our D.
-I want him to recognize the effect that he is having on D. It would be great if he would quit catering to every boo-boo, but this is one of those things that I cannot prevent. Because she is mimicking his behavior, I worry that there is a chance that she will really be sick and I will miss it. So the whole problem is, for lack of a better word, contagious.
-more even distribution of child support, child support paid promptly and without excuses and self-pitying statements.
-I want him to stop telling me that he is "too sick" for this and that, and to do what he has agreed to do, especially when it comes to spending time w/our D.
-I want him to recognize the effect that he is having on D. It would be great if he would quit catering to every boo-boo, but this is one of those things that I cannot prevent. Because she is mimicking his behavior, I worry that there is a chance that she will really be sick and I will miss it. So the whole problem is, for lack of a better word, contagious.
I am finding that acceptance of that basic truth is often painful when it comes to our kids. To ease your own mind with regards to your daughter maybe you can make a list of things to look for in determining the need for a doctor visit or to stay home. When you are feeling anxious about her complaints of illness you can go down this list as a way to help you determine if this is something that needs further medical attention, or some other kind of support.
If you are anything like me, I could make that list when I was just sitting at my desk and it would seem so simple but in the moment - I need that list because when in the situation I'm not always so rational. I have some lists of my own, they are just about different things and I find them helpful if I am really stern with myself about using them. It is easy to fall into old patterns because trying out the new ones causes all kinds of stress.
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"Then he calls a doctor and gets it sorted out. That seems reasonable. You are not his personal ask-a-nurse. That is not reasonable."
Thanks for your comments, Thumper. It is not that he would aske me to be an ask-a-nurse as much as it is playing that card to get me to take care of our D so he does not have to.
And by the way, he tried that card this weekend and I said "So sorry. I'm sure you'll work it out. I'll be dropping her off at the agreed-upon time!"
Thanks for your comments, Thumper. It is not that he would aske me to be an ask-a-nurse as much as it is playing that card to get me to take care of our D so he does not have to.
And by the way, he tried that card this weekend and I said "So sorry. I'm sure you'll work it out. I'll be dropping her off at the agreed-upon time!"
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"There are no shades of gray because you can't depend on his assessment."
Thanks again. This is a great point and one that I will keep in mind.
Should I tell him "I have had too many non-emergency incidents that lead me to believe your assessments are not reliable. So I will be doing [boundary]?"
Thanks again. This is a great point and one that I will keep in mind.
Should I tell him "I have had too many non-emergency incidents that lead me to believe your assessments are not reliable. So I will be doing [boundary]?"
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Originally Posted by bret
And by the way, he tried that card this weekend and I said "So sorry. I'm sure you'll work it out. I'll be dropping her off at the agreed-upon time!"
Originally Posted by bret
Should I tell him "I have had too many non-emergency incidents that lead me to believe your assessments are not reliable. So I will be doing [boundary]?"
I really don't know what the right answer is. I've chosen to step away and let my ex be the driving force behind his relationship with his kids. He'll shape it how he wants to.
Of course, since I stopped arranging it, he's pretty much stopped seeing them. I can't control it. I can't force him to be the father the kids deserve - or even the father I know he could be.
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I don't think there's any point in confronting him at all. If he ever changes, the change is years away.
You need to 'confront' your daughter. You need to talk to her straight up about hypochondria, use the word, talk to her about the tricks, and about the consequences.
Those of us with alcoholic spouses and kids have to do this. I used Time magazine, which had a feature on alcoholism, the computer, and books. I was clear and straightforward...and it's a non stop discussion. You are going to have to call her on her behavior when she's hypochondriac-izing.
Changing your ex will not help your daughter; changing your daughter will help your daughter.
Also on weekends he doesn't want his daughter (whatever the reason legit or not), don't give him his daughter. Your daughter deserves to be wanted. And if he's 'burdened' by her being there he will take it out on her, one way or another.
You need to 'confront' your daughter. You need to talk to her straight up about hypochondria, use the word, talk to her about the tricks, and about the consequences.
Those of us with alcoholic spouses and kids have to do this. I used Time magazine, which had a feature on alcoholism, the computer, and books. I was clear and straightforward...and it's a non stop discussion. You are going to have to call her on her behavior when she's hypochondriac-izing.
Changing your ex will not help your daughter; changing your daughter will help your daughter.
Also on weekends he doesn't want his daughter (whatever the reason legit or not), don't give him his daughter. Your daughter deserves to be wanted. And if he's 'burdened' by her being there he will take it out on her, one way or another.
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