Need help with XMIL Boundaries...again

Old 05-23-2010, 07:28 AM
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Need help with XMIL Boundaries...again

I'm posting this here instead of the DDT. Many of you know my MIL problems. XAH is the apple of her eye. She admits he's done wrong, but now that he's 'clean' he's her shining star again. She will do ANYTHING for him. XAH is in jail going on 70 days now for a bench warrant. He missed court and FIL and I called police, told them where he was and had him picked up. XAH actually told her he was GLAD that I did this and said it was the best thing that could have happened to him. Said he would have gotten clean no other way. She says it's not fair.

MIL and I are not doing well...We don't really fight, but anytime his name comes up she immediately defends him, I do not. He's where he's @ because he walked every step of the way to get there. She disagrees, says it's not 100% his fault. She's been putting $100+ in his commissary every week because she wants to be sure he has $ to eat on (he doesn't like cafeteria food - I say tough luck, you're not @ the Hilton) and she wants him to be able to call. My response to this is if you have THAT much extra $ to spare put in his child support account that he's behind on. She of course gets mad @ me because it's not fair that *I'm* making him pay child support when he can't even work because he's in jail. (It's automated through CSEA - outta my control)

She called my cell and left a vm last week. She has this cocky tone and says "why do you have your phone off the hook XAH is trying to call you and how's he suppose to get through blah, blah, blah." When I heard the msg anger just infused me. Firstly, I did not have my phone off the hook, line went bad, secondly it's MY phone, I'll leave it off the hook any time I want too, thirdly I am not going to jump through hoops just because he's trying to call. He went MONTHS avoiding mine when he was active. She is also furious with me because I've not been to the jail to visit him. Says the only one he wants to see is you and you can't even go see him?

XAH is possibly going to stay with his dad and enter a 6 month treatment center 7 states away. Her latest comment is that she thinks that 6 months is too long. I about fell over. I said he's been on drugs 10x longer than that. She said well it's only been heroin for 2 years. I said yes, and it was OXYCONTIN for the 5 prior to that! She said she didn't want him gone that long and didn't know if she could go that long without seeing him. WTF??

I HAVE told her that it is apparant that we cannot talk about him and be civil. She says I'm being stupid, we're family blah, blah, blah and hangs up on me. I talk to her maybe about 1x every week or 10 days and there is always tension. Always.

The only reason I want to have somewhat of a R with her is because of the kids. They love her, she loves them etc. They do go stay overnight and she does spend time with them. I have limited this greatly due to everything that has happened. My twins are 9. I don't want them to not have a R with their grandma. I do VERY CLOSELY monitor her dealings with them and she is a good grandma (though she'd let my kids walk all over her if they were bad kids - they are not though).

From here on out I would like to place boundaries with her and stick with them. Every time I've done that in the past she gets defensive, accusatory and I can't hold my tongue when she defends his actions. Can you guys give me some ideas as to how to approach this? I've avoided it recently and just bit my tongue, but it's coming to a head and I'm tasting the blood from biting my tongue so hard! Contact with her has been cut by probably about 75% of what it was.

In the past XAH has even told MIL that she's unreasonable. He's also told me I'm sorry, you know MIL, just do the best that you can. The thing is I DO NOT HAVE to deal with this anymore.

I realize that I'm an equal part of the equation, but the woman is downright unreasonable and a few bricks shy of a full load. I fully understands that she loves her son. I have decided that I want my kids to be able to go to grandma's etc, but I also want that limited from what it was before. Do you guys have ANY suggestions here? This has been simmering a LONG time.
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:43 AM
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Callie,

You can apply methods and tools that can create a neutral zone.

Since she's your children's grandmother, you will have contact with her.

However, any discussion of your EX can be defined as off limits/no response.

You can apply methods that do not allow her direct, real-time access to you, such as she can leave a message on your phone, or email you. Even if you are right there, you do not need to respond directly and in real time to her, until you know what she wants and whether it's in your best interest to engage in it, or not.

The worst case scenario is probably she calls you for a medical emergency of one of your kids. EVEN THEN, you can screen her message, and call her right back.

Sometimes, the only way to win, is not to play.

CLMI
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:56 AM
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My XMIL is toxic to me and to many others. At first, I tried to facilitate a relationship between her and the kids. Even though it hurt me in the process. After therapy and Alanon I started to view things differently.

I realized I have a perfect right to limit my contact with toxic people, even family members. I learned that I had a big problem with not being honest about how I felt, and then feeling resentful toward others when they carried on treating me like crap while I pretended to like it. I realized it did not need to be my job to facilitate a relationship with her and the kids after the divorce, especially in light of her horrid behavior. I turned her relationship with the kids over to her an XAH. I made a decision to let the kids be available to her as long as it was done between her and XAH.

Guess how much effort they both put into building a relationship with the kids? NOT MUCH.

Made me realize how similar she and XAH are. I never saw that clearly before.

I concentrate on helping the kids build a relationship with my parents and relatives.

I know your situation is different with XH being in jail right now. Perhaps all this is the consequence to him and his mom for choices they have made. And if she refuses to respect your boundaries why do you keep showing up for more of the same? (asked very gently).
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:18 AM
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if she refuses to respect your boundaries why do you keep showing up for more of the same? (asked very gently).

Very good point. I guess if she refuses when I reset then and stick by them myself then I won't. I told her about 3 months ago that I would not discuss XAH with her any further because apparantly we don't see eye to eye and it just causes tension. She basically said 'we're family, you know the way I am, you're talking nonsense' and hung up. Things died down for about a month (mainly because I was avoiding contact) and now with XAH about to get out, it's starting again.

He'll hopefully be out of the state shortly after he's released, so he won't be able to deal with her/kids. It will be me. I think once he's gone, things will be better. I'm just trying to make things peaceful for the kids as far as she's concerned from here on out.

CLMI - I've been letting things go to vm more and more. Thank you.
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Old 05-23-2010, 10:35 AM
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Callie,

I still have a relationship with my exh's family but I can also say that they NEVER and I mean NEVER gave me any grief about my boundaries. They always supported me 100%. If they hadn't, I don't think I would have maintained a R with them. Honestly. There are alot of losses when it comes to addiction. When we have a child with the addict, sometimes the loss comes in the form of lost contact with his side of the family. Your EX is the link between your kids and his mom. Not you. Your MIL is doing your ex's bidding. He's locked up and she's stepped in to push against the boundaries he can't. The thing is...this man is your ex. And so is she. And if she cannot have civil conversations with you and respect your boundaries, the ONLY way your going to get out of the loop is to stop engaging with her.

I would lay out my boundaries and if she didn't respect them, I'd go no contact. Its not about punishing her. Its not about taking anything from your kids. Its about getting and maintaining peace in your life. She can only steal your peace if you let her.

Hang in there...
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Old 05-23-2010, 12:00 PM
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Callie-
This is just my opinion. I'm not an authority on anything.
But in my opinion, your Mil is sick.

If not an abuser herself. An enabler of an abuser.
You yourself say that you can't stand to talk to her. She makes you sick. Why would you trust this women, who (I agree) is sick, to take care of your children, for an hour- let alone a night?

All she CAN do- is in my opinion, use them.. to talk to. To be there for her. Listen to her whine and complain.. or feel so sorry for her, or her "poor, sick, son."
This is NOT their job! Their responsibilty!!!
Let them be children. Not children taking care of adult children!!

Your ex- is NOT your family anymore. Nor is his mother. You are divorced.
So she expects YOU to visit him? Expects you to talk to him? Expects you to arrange for his next treatment? Airfare out of state? Even for you to give him a place to stay?

Those are HER expectations.
You can CHOOSE to have different expectations of yourself! You do not *have to* nor do your children. You can live your life!! AND if they have a problem with it- it is their problem!!

Let the adults, figure it out. They CAN.. All on their own. There are others who can and will be there for them.
I would tell them that YOU and YOUR kids are taking a 3 month break!
That they should NOT expect a single thing from you or your children for 3 monthes!

At that time, they can- then tell you what they or their poor son are doing.
Hopefully it will be good news. If not? Well at least you will be more detached from the situation.

A $100 a week, on her son?? Her choice. Also your childrens father's choice to accept those funds.
You can have dreams. But dear there is also reality. Addicts who are using, do NOT pay childsupport. They don't work. It doesn't matter, what the court tells them they should do. Once the money is gone. It is gone.

Pray- hope.. but for goodness sakes don't expect someone to support your children in the future, when their mommy is paying for better food for them! And they are more than happy to take it! For that matter- isn't this women *poor*? Isn't the home that she lives in, yours?

I don't know how he CAN accept that money from his own mother?
Or for that matter the mother of his children!!

Just my opinion.. Take what you like.
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:35 PM
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Seriously reading this?? Am I going CALLIE CRAZY???? Don't even answer that. BTDT. Yes I am. Sorry SR, but HTH someone else.
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Callie View Post
Seriously reading this?? Am I going CALLIE CRAZY???? Don't even answer that. BTDT. Yes I am. Sorry SR, but HTH someone else.
I didn't quite get this post. "HTH" ? What does that stand for?

I think your MIL is gonna be a pain in your petunia no matter what you do, if you choose healthy. I would go so limited contact that you only speak to her to say "Hello, MIL", "Thanks for spending time with your grandkids", and "I can't talk about that".

Can you have pre-arranged visits with her and the kids? Like every first Saturday of the month or something?

Do you know if there's a time to call when she won't be able to answer the phone? Leave a message that says "I got your voicemail. The kids will be there, as usual, of the first Saturday of the month."

Other than those type of calls, no contact. She's over the top as an enabler.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:54 AM
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HTH = hope this helps.

Me thinks she is rejecting the "support" we are giving her. :-/
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by coffeedrinker View Post
I think your MIL is gonna be a pain in your petunia no matter what you do, if you choose healthy. I would go so limited contact that you only speak to her to say "Hello, MIL", "Thanks for spending time with your grandkids", and "I can't talk about that".

Can you have pre-arranged visits with her and the kids? Like every first Saturday of the month or something?

Do you know if there's a time to call when she won't be able to answer the phone? Leave a message that says "I got your voicemail. The kids will be there, as usual, of the first Saturday of the month."

Other than those type of calls, no contact. She's over the top as an enabler.
During the times my parents were in toxic mode, especially my mother, and I still had the girls at home, this was pretty much my modus operandi.

As soon as one of them got off of the immediate subject and onto crazy-making conversation, I hung up. *click*

I actually had periods of months where I was no contact with them.

Things really got heated from time to time after the oldest was long gone from home and had become a mother herself.

With me in recovery, they had lost their role as enablers, and got busy enabling my oldest AD.

You say you want your kids to have a relationship with their grandmother, yet what price is everyone paying currently to have that relationship?

Are you attending any Alanon or Naranon meetings yet?
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:28 AM
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She basically said 'we're family, you know the way I am, you're talking nonsense' and hung up.
She let you know you're the one with a problem, not her. And she's right. She's a problem and you're responsible for finding solutions. She's a sober version of her son (echoing anvil), and what you want to happen isn't what is happening in reality. It's all on you again Callie. Get PO'd, whine a little if you want, but you'll still have to do something or stay stuck on the hamster wheel.
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Old 05-24-2010, 01:44 PM
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MIL is co-depenendent like most of us here.

I cannot imagine how much time and energy, this takes out of you. What would be the focal point of your life, if all this drama with the ex and his mom were not?

You alone control how much drama you allow in your life and that of your children.

This "we're family" thing is an excuse most of us have used to keep the drama going instead of taking responsibility for ourselves and outcomes.

I mean this as someone who has been there/done that.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:53 PM
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Detach with love. Simply make a boundary that you will not discuss her son with her (which means you don't talk to her about HER choices with him either) and then enforce it.

If she begins talking about him...walk out of the room, hang up quietly, but just remove yourself from the conversation.

Let her call you...and hang up the moment she brings up his name or raises her voice to you.

I've done this more than once and I promise you that it gets better the more you enforce it.

You don't have to be a willing participant in her toxic conversations. You don't get to tell her how to live her life with her son....but you get to live your life however you want.

That's called "recovery".

Hugs
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:01 PM
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My MIL is the same, defends her kids AND her daughters children to the end. No matter WHAT they do.

I hate to admit this, but I avoid her like the plague!

AND when I am there, if she brings any subject up that I don't take a liking to, I say something like "Whoops, I forgot, I have to go to the bank" or some such baloney.

There is NO changing these MIL's so, avoid, avoid avoid, and detach slowly, and surely.

Actually I think my MIL got the message cause she doesn't phone me anymore.
(unless she wants to use me for medical info, and I tell her she needs to call her Doctor)


Hugs and hugs......
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:17 PM
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I'm here guys. Didn't leave yet (sigh sr ) DS has pink eye, 2 bb games and the store. No time to reply right now, but things are becoming very clear to me as far as MIL is concerned. Maybe more tomorrow depending on ds?
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:12 PM
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callie, sorry i haven't gotten around to reading your entire post but i will a little later but i just wanted to say that i know exactly what you may be going through with mil, i think mine was worse but the same, i found it helped for me to in a loving way explained to mine that i thought it would be better for the both of us and that i no longer wished to discuss my ah whenever we talked. anything else, i'm fine with.

that didn't change her enabling him but at least i didn't have to hear about it.
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Old 05-25-2010, 06:37 AM
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For me and my xabf, it took not responding to her phone calls directly and just responding back through emails. I have also made it clear that I do not want to talk about him though she does try. I just give one answer comments and/or reinforce the fact that I do not want to talk about him. He doesn't want to talk to her himself because he knows full well that it is a trigger for him and that no contact with her himself is the best for him to get on track because she will just throw money at him. But again, that isn't my problem and I think you have to just try to and enforce your boundaries because as my mother said about my xabf's mother "she wants you in the picture and with him and she will most likely use any tactic to see that happen whether it is guilt, manipulation, etc so don't let her get that far to make you feel bad for the decisions you have made and the boundaries that you are putting up for your own well-being". I know it is hard to have contact with your x's family but hopefully if you are firm and try your best to not let the communication escalate to any talk about him (I usually ignore any comments about him in emails, etc) then you can hopefully start having a relationship that is based solely on your kids. I know it is hard and I hope you find a way to get through this kind of headache.
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Old 05-25-2010, 07:35 AM
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"she wants you in the picture and with him and she will most likely use any tactic to see that happen whether it is guilt, manipulation

That is 100% right. She wants him on MY doorstep if he relapses. NOT hers.

Thank you guys. I am doing MUCH better. Much better. I allowed myself to be swirled into the chaos again.

Anvil, you pointed out that MIL raised XAH and how did that turn out? You are 100% right. This is a woman who went and got 150 darvocet for migraines that she doesn't have and handed the bottle over to her 18 year old son who does have migraines. That 18 year old son is my now 40 yo. xah. This rx had refills too. This is the woman who bought high schoolers (myself included) beer every weekend.

She is a sick, sick woman who is so wrapped up in herself that she doesn't even think of others. I need to keep the perspective that NOTHING that I say or do will change MIL's thinking.

I've got my bearings now and am going to severely limit contact with myself AND the kids. The last few days are proof that I need to keep things in check with her - if I don't they drive me bonkers. Actually I've decided to limit contact with ALL of his family. FIL is the only one of them who understands codependency and has firm boundaries. I can safely deal with him as needed. The others I cannot.

Every time XMIL and I talk and XAH comes up my blood boils. The only solution is to take someone out of the equation. I'm removing myself. Thank you SR for your help!
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:33 AM
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Thank you guys. I am doing MUCH better. Much better. I allowed myself to be swirled into the chaos again.
This happens to me all the time. Boundaries don't always help me stay out of the tornado, but they ALWAYS help me get out of it quickly.

It's good to periodically check yourself. I do...

Yes do limit her contact with the kids. They don't need to be around "sick, sick people". It's not healthy for their development.
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