New here: Dealing with enablers
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Join Date: May 2010
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New here: Dealing with enablers
I just found this forum and signed up. Very brief version of my story:
My entire childhood, my mom had no problems with alcohol or any other substances (other than cigarettes). There were alcoholics in the family (it is DEFINITELY in our blood), but she made sure we were never exposed to it. There was rarely alcohol in our house at all. Then, when I was in college, after being married to two men (me & my sister's dad, then my brother's dad) who had no history of substance abuse, she married a "recovering" alcoholic who was a manipulative, controlling dry drunk. One of his dry drunk behaviors was encouraging her to drink more and more to "make up for" the fact that he couldn't. After a few years, he left her, she became depressed and quickly spiraled downward into full-on stage 4 alcoholism, at over 45 years old.
She finally went into rehab this past fall, was there for about two months and then lived with my little sister for a few weeks before moving out on her own (it took losing her boyfriend, home, and job to get her into rehab).
I live two states away. My sister (Sis) lives in the same city, and my brother (Bro) is away at college but just got home for the summer. So I sometimes feel very helpless, being so far away, and all I can do is support Sis while she struggles with this.
Anyhow, here is the actual question: Mom's drinking again. She had a full-on relapse over Christmas, hid in her room drinking all Christmas Eve even though I was there visiting and she was supposed to be caring for a niece (who I wound up caring for). She eventually admitted to that and we all moved on. But now she just told Sis that she's been having "a glass of wine with dinner once a month or so" and that it "isn't a problem." But in the week Bro's been home from school, he's seen her have a glass EVERY night with dinner, and get drunk with a friend once. Sis also suspects her of drinking in the morning once before Sis got to her house, and she's been engaging in lots of other alcoholic behaviors (shifting blame, lying, etc etc).
On the one hand we have our aunt, her closest sister, who mom claims (I don't talk to the aunt much myself and Sis hasn't seen her since all this came to light) knows she's been drinking and doesn't think it's a problem. This aunt is a KNOWN enabler, and has been the entire time. So disappointed but not surprised that she is being "supportive" (as she always calls it).
Then we got a bigger shock when Sis saw my dad the other day (they are 20+ yrs divorced) - apparently he's been talking to mom on the phone and told Sis to lay off her, that she's not "really" an alcoholic, she just had "some problems" before rehab and is fine now! This is quite a shock, since mom & dad don't always get along, dad was VERY concerned about her drinking last summer, and his girlfriend is a totally-on-the-wagon recovering alcoholic who is in school to become a drug & alcohol counselor! (GF was not there.)
I know that sometimes Sis feels like she's the crazy one, with everyone against her, and I do my best to support her from a distance and let her know that she's never alone. (Bro fades in and out of denial - he was actually in high school during her descent into alcoholism, while Sis and I were out of the house, so it's very hard on him and he tries to ignore it much of the time. So he's only sometimes useful for support.)
What is the best way for us to approach these enablers in our lives? I'm not surprised our aunt is in denial, but I never expected it from our dad. Not only are their attitudes unhealthy for mom, but also for Sis as she tries to deal with all this. The last thing she needs is the rest of our family telling her that the problem is in her head when it very clearly is not!
Sorry this is so long, I hope the context was useful. *sigh* Thanks for any advice you can give or stories you can share.
My entire childhood, my mom had no problems with alcohol or any other substances (other than cigarettes). There were alcoholics in the family (it is DEFINITELY in our blood), but she made sure we were never exposed to it. There was rarely alcohol in our house at all. Then, when I was in college, after being married to two men (me & my sister's dad, then my brother's dad) who had no history of substance abuse, she married a "recovering" alcoholic who was a manipulative, controlling dry drunk. One of his dry drunk behaviors was encouraging her to drink more and more to "make up for" the fact that he couldn't. After a few years, he left her, she became depressed and quickly spiraled downward into full-on stage 4 alcoholism, at over 45 years old.
She finally went into rehab this past fall, was there for about two months and then lived with my little sister for a few weeks before moving out on her own (it took losing her boyfriend, home, and job to get her into rehab).
I live two states away. My sister (Sis) lives in the same city, and my brother (Bro) is away at college but just got home for the summer. So I sometimes feel very helpless, being so far away, and all I can do is support Sis while she struggles with this.
Anyhow, here is the actual question: Mom's drinking again. She had a full-on relapse over Christmas, hid in her room drinking all Christmas Eve even though I was there visiting and she was supposed to be caring for a niece (who I wound up caring for). She eventually admitted to that and we all moved on. But now she just told Sis that she's been having "a glass of wine with dinner once a month or so" and that it "isn't a problem." But in the week Bro's been home from school, he's seen her have a glass EVERY night with dinner, and get drunk with a friend once. Sis also suspects her of drinking in the morning once before Sis got to her house, and she's been engaging in lots of other alcoholic behaviors (shifting blame, lying, etc etc).
On the one hand we have our aunt, her closest sister, who mom claims (I don't talk to the aunt much myself and Sis hasn't seen her since all this came to light) knows she's been drinking and doesn't think it's a problem. This aunt is a KNOWN enabler, and has been the entire time. So disappointed but not surprised that she is being "supportive" (as she always calls it).
Then we got a bigger shock when Sis saw my dad the other day (they are 20+ yrs divorced) - apparently he's been talking to mom on the phone and told Sis to lay off her, that she's not "really" an alcoholic, she just had "some problems" before rehab and is fine now! This is quite a shock, since mom & dad don't always get along, dad was VERY concerned about her drinking last summer, and his girlfriend is a totally-on-the-wagon recovering alcoholic who is in school to become a drug & alcohol counselor! (GF was not there.)
I know that sometimes Sis feels like she's the crazy one, with everyone against her, and I do my best to support her from a distance and let her know that she's never alone. (Bro fades in and out of denial - he was actually in high school during her descent into alcoholism, while Sis and I were out of the house, so it's very hard on him and he tries to ignore it much of the time. So he's only sometimes useful for support.)
What is the best way for us to approach these enablers in our lives? I'm not surprised our aunt is in denial, but I never expected it from our dad. Not only are their attitudes unhealthy for mom, but also for Sis as she tries to deal with all this. The last thing she needs is the rest of our family telling her that the problem is in her head when it very clearly is not!
Sorry this is so long, I hope the context was useful. *sigh* Thanks for any advice you can give or stories you can share.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere, our planet
Posts: 174
What I've learned in my journey so far:
Alcoholics will lie. Alcoholics will drink. Alcoholics will relapse. And Alcoholics will repeat this process over and over until something within them desires change.
And I'm also learning...we cannot--as much as we wish it and we try--change others' perceptions of the alcoholic (just as we cannot change the alcoholic).
The only person we can change? Ourselves. Through the process of change, hopefully others will, too.
I am just beginning to change--I am no longer involved in my alcoholic sister's dramas, and I am taking a stand with my parents on the same issue. In short, I am doing what is best for me so that I can get better and learn to have compassion for my sister and her disease. And I'm learning to let go of my expectations of others (including my parents and the way they choose to enable my sister).
Long story short--change is difficult, but it is certainly worth delving into (as opposed to remaining enmeshed in the current situation that surrounds my sister and her alcoholism).
Take care of you...and wishing you good thoughts.
Alcoholics will lie. Alcoholics will drink. Alcoholics will relapse. And Alcoholics will repeat this process over and over until something within them desires change.
And I'm also learning...we cannot--as much as we wish it and we try--change others' perceptions of the alcoholic (just as we cannot change the alcoholic).
The only person we can change? Ourselves. Through the process of change, hopefully others will, too.
I am just beginning to change--I am no longer involved in my alcoholic sister's dramas, and I am taking a stand with my parents on the same issue. In short, I am doing what is best for me so that I can get better and learn to have compassion for my sister and her disease. And I'm learning to let go of my expectations of others (including my parents and the way they choose to enable my sister).
Long story short--change is difficult, but it is certainly worth delving into (as opposed to remaining enmeshed in the current situation that surrounds my sister and her alcoholism).
Take care of you...and wishing you good thoughts.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 985
Hi and welcome.
My A is my estranged husband. He has been enabled his whole life which I did not know until we were married four years ago. (we have been sep for two) I mention this b/c one of my big struggles with him is his attitude. He sees me as not like other people in his life and thinks that my being different is a bad thing.
Where I a different is that I recognize his problem drinking and expect him to do something about it. Since our relationship began, he has been in/out of sobriety. It has been the first time in his life that he recognizes his own problem. It is the first time he has gotten honest about many things in his life and he reunited with his sons( after 20 years) and mother(10).
During his last and longest sober period we had a discussion about how I a different in recognizing his problem and expecting him to do something about it. He sees how my allowing him to experience consequences and taking responsibility that it helped him, but thinks it is wrong to do so.
His take is that he has an illness and I should be more allowing (enabling).
My advice would be to continue doing what you think best. Remember that we cannot control others, there is a HP to help us and others, and people don't always know what goes on behind closed doors.
I also have the unusual situation of husband and I working at the same place. For past few years I have had to listen to others tell me how great he is and how helpful he is to talk to. His bosses know the problem and we don't talk about it. But lately, several of his co workers have come to me in private to give me a hug and say, " you are a very compassionate, warm, loving person". These are the same people who used to tell me how great he is. I am guessing that they are seeing what he is really like since we aren't together right now.
Hope this is helpful. It is almost always a trying experience to be on the outside looking in. Read and learn. Alanon has reading material about enabling and what to do.
My A is my estranged husband. He has been enabled his whole life which I did not know until we were married four years ago. (we have been sep for two) I mention this b/c one of my big struggles with him is his attitude. He sees me as not like other people in his life and thinks that my being different is a bad thing.
Where I a different is that I recognize his problem drinking and expect him to do something about it. Since our relationship began, he has been in/out of sobriety. It has been the first time in his life that he recognizes his own problem. It is the first time he has gotten honest about many things in his life and he reunited with his sons( after 20 years) and mother(10).
During his last and longest sober period we had a discussion about how I a different in recognizing his problem and expecting him to do something about it. He sees how my allowing him to experience consequences and taking responsibility that it helped him, but thinks it is wrong to do so.
His take is that he has an illness and I should be more allowing (enabling).
My advice would be to continue doing what you think best. Remember that we cannot control others, there is a HP to help us and others, and people don't always know what goes on behind closed doors.
I also have the unusual situation of husband and I working at the same place. For past few years I have had to listen to others tell me how great he is and how helpful he is to talk to. His bosses know the problem and we don't talk about it. But lately, several of his co workers have come to me in private to give me a hug and say, " you are a very compassionate, warm, loving person". These are the same people who used to tell me how great he is. I am guessing that they are seeing what he is really like since we aren't together right now.
Hope this is helpful. It is almost always a trying experience to be on the outside looking in. Read and learn. Alanon has reading material about enabling and what to do.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
First of all, welcome to sober recovery. I hope you will continue to come here, and post as often as you feel you want to.
Secondly, I believe the best thing you can do in this situation, is start regularly attending Alanon. It will help give you new perspective. If you have not yet gone, there is a learning curve, there is language that will be new to you. Just keep going for awhile and things will continue to be revealed to you. It can be a wonderful journey.
Why do I say this is the best thing to do? Because, as the other posters have pointed out, you truly cannot force solutions with any of your family members. But - perhaps - you can become a beacon for them. If not, well, you will be one for yourself.
Have you had any calm, respectful discussions with Sis? I have found that when I listen, don't tell people they are wrong, and talk about my belief system, the relationship does not incur damage, and sometimes others begin to see things in a different way.
I'm sorry about your mom. This is a good warning for someone like me, also never had drug problems of any kind, who started drinking during and after her divorce. We are never immune.
Secondly, I believe the best thing you can do in this situation, is start regularly attending Alanon. It will help give you new perspective. If you have not yet gone, there is a learning curve, there is language that will be new to you. Just keep going for awhile and things will continue to be revealed to you. It can be a wonderful journey.
Why do I say this is the best thing to do? Because, as the other posters have pointed out, you truly cannot force solutions with any of your family members. But - perhaps - you can become a beacon for them. If not, well, you will be one for yourself.
Have you had any calm, respectful discussions with Sis? I have found that when I listen, don't tell people they are wrong, and talk about my belief system, the relationship does not incur damage, and sometimes others begin to see things in a different way.
I'm sorry about your mom. This is a good warning for someone like me, also never had drug problems of any kind, who started drinking during and after her divorce. We are never immune.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 566
Hi pipkin,
Welcome to SR! I've only been here a few months but being here has helped me to completely transform my life. I agree with coffeedrinker about going to Alanon, too.
I'm discovering that enabling is a really insidious thing. I never realized to what extent I was actually enabling certain behaviors. I'm single now for the first time in about 22 years. During that time I was married, then had a 3 year relationship, and then about 2 months ago I broke off a 10 month relationship with an active alcoholic (who swears "I'm not an alcoholic, but alcohol is an issue for me"). That latest relationship brought me here and to the rooms of Alanon.
What I've realized, however, is that in each of my relationships I enabled certain behaviors that were alcoholic-like: control, manipulation, lying, etc. Like Kassie said, I've had people come up to me and talk about what a wonderful guy my exhusband is, what a great dad, etc., even though my experience of him was LOTS of passive-aggressiveness. And what I realized is that I contributed to that "wonderful" image of him because I maintained that "happy little facade" and he thrives in that. When I stopped pretending the marriage had to end, and I inevitably looked like the rogue while he seemingly rode off into the sunset, the victim of someone who clearly didn't see all of his wonderful qualities...
I'm still finding my way through the enabling issue, but what I can offer to you is that the best antidote I've found is to be completely true to myself and not allow anyone to cross my boundaries into the land of pretend. It's not comfortable but wow, it sure is easier to respect and live with myself.
Big hugs, and I'm glad you found us,
posie
Welcome to SR! I've only been here a few months but being here has helped me to completely transform my life. I agree with coffeedrinker about going to Alanon, too.
I'm discovering that enabling is a really insidious thing. I never realized to what extent I was actually enabling certain behaviors. I'm single now for the first time in about 22 years. During that time I was married, then had a 3 year relationship, and then about 2 months ago I broke off a 10 month relationship with an active alcoholic (who swears "I'm not an alcoholic, but alcohol is an issue for me"). That latest relationship brought me here and to the rooms of Alanon.
What I've realized, however, is that in each of my relationships I enabled certain behaviors that were alcoholic-like: control, manipulation, lying, etc. Like Kassie said, I've had people come up to me and talk about what a wonderful guy my exhusband is, what a great dad, etc., even though my experience of him was LOTS of passive-aggressiveness. And what I realized is that I contributed to that "wonderful" image of him because I maintained that "happy little facade" and he thrives in that. When I stopped pretending the marriage had to end, and I inevitably looked like the rogue while he seemingly rode off into the sunset, the victim of someone who clearly didn't see all of his wonderful qualities...
I'm still finding my way through the enabling issue, but what I can offer to you is that the best antidote I've found is to be completely true to myself and not allow anyone to cross my boundaries into the land of pretend. It's not comfortable but wow, it sure is easier to respect and live with myself.
Big hugs, and I'm glad you found us,
posie
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: WA Rainforest
Posts: 209
What is the best way for us to approach these enablers in our lives?
Everyone involved in your story is an adult. You will have to let them live their own lives as they see fit. Alcoholics and enablers both.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
Hi, Pipkin, welcome to SR. It's a wonderful forum and there are many here with great insights to share and shoulders to lean on. Keep reading and posting and be sure to take time to read through the stickies at the top of the topics page.
I love Trying2Fly's response and would only add: You can offer your sister a lot of support, even though you're far away. Let her know she can call and talk with you when she needs to, let her know that she's not the only one that sees the problem. Those 2 things alone are a HUGE support.
Best wishes for you and your family.
I love Trying2Fly's response and would only add: You can offer your sister a lot of support, even though you're far away. Let her know she can call and talk with you when she needs to, let her know that she's not the only one that sees the problem. Those 2 things alone are a HUGE support.
Best wishes for you and your family.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7
Thanks for all of the heartfelt replies!
I understand that we can't necessarily change the enablers, or force them to change themselves. But how do we avoid enabling their enabling, if that makes sense? If someone tells me my mom's drinking isn't a problem, there's no way I'm going to agree with them - but there must be some ways of approaching the discussion that are more useful than others.
And I feel like this is really important because of my sister sometimes feeling so alone - I want to let these people know that it is NOT just her, that I agree with everything she says and does with regards to this situation. But I don't know if it would be productive to call up my dad and say "Hey, Sis told me about your discussion, I just want to let you know that I am on her side here" or if that would just make him defensive? But it feels like not saying anything would be enabling him to stay in denial.
I hope this makes sense. I know I can't force anyone to get out of denial. Trust me, I've figured that one out over the past few very frustrating years. But I do have to continue to interact with these people - not just have to, but want to, they're my family, I love them, and other than their reaction to this situation I have no problem with them! But when I do interact with them and mom's drinking comes up, I want to know how to handle it productively, and I want to know how to make it clear to the family that my sister isn't alone in seeing this as a problem.
I understand that we can't necessarily change the enablers, or force them to change themselves. But how do we avoid enabling their enabling, if that makes sense? If someone tells me my mom's drinking isn't a problem, there's no way I'm going to agree with them - but there must be some ways of approaching the discussion that are more useful than others.
And I feel like this is really important because of my sister sometimes feeling so alone - I want to let these people know that it is NOT just her, that I agree with everything she says and does with regards to this situation. But I don't know if it would be productive to call up my dad and say "Hey, Sis told me about your discussion, I just want to let you know that I am on her side here" or if that would just make him defensive? But it feels like not saying anything would be enabling him to stay in denial.
I hope this makes sense. I know I can't force anyone to get out of denial. Trust me, I've figured that one out over the past few very frustrating years. But I do have to continue to interact with these people - not just have to, but want to, they're my family, I love them, and other than their reaction to this situation I have no problem with them! But when I do interact with them and mom's drinking comes up, I want to know how to handle it productively, and I want to know how to make it clear to the family that my sister isn't alone in seeing this as a problem.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
But when I do interact with them and mom's drinking comes up, I want to know how to handle it productively, and I want to know how to make it clear to the family that my sister isn't alone in seeing this as a problem.
Well one thing I can promise you, especially where active/sneaking alcoholism and denial are concerned: more will be revealed. So just be confident in what YOU know. Having an expectation of handling it "productively" is probably just setting yourself up for disappointment or resentment!
My dad was an A, and I have 3 A bros - 2 are actively drinking and one quit drinking many years ago but smokes weed 24/7/365. My mom is the chief enabler and denier of reality. With the help of AlAnon I got to a place where I could really detach, both from my A brothers insanity and from my mom's enabling.
I don't need her to see or say that my bros are alcoholics. I know it. I make my decisions according to what I know. Now that baby bro has moved in with her, more is being revealed to her about the reality of his problem. So she will learn in her own time and in her own way whatever it is she needs to learn!
Meanwhile, it is hard to be around people in denial, because you can't pretend, in fact pretending or going along with denial is a form of enabling. For myself, the task that led to the most serenity for me was to completely stop enabling my A brothers. AlAnon helped me figure out just how insidious enabling can be.
What sucks about the family disease of alcoholism is that for many years a pattern of behavior/communication has been established. And when one family member starts to rock the boat by pointing out REALITY they often get scapegoated as the problem, because the need within the family to deny the alcoholism and the force that the alcoholic exerts to prevent things from changing is very great.
For me, once the veil was removed on my father's alcoholism I just could not pretend anymore and keep my sanity. But I had to LEARN how to accept that that's just me! I don't feel a need to be confrontational and prove anything anymore (although I definitely had to go through that phase!).
Not easy. Try AlAnon or read Codependent No More. Those helped me a lot.
peace-
b
Well one thing I can promise you, especially where active/sneaking alcoholism and denial are concerned: more will be revealed. So just be confident in what YOU know. Having an expectation of handling it "productively" is probably just setting yourself up for disappointment or resentment!
My dad was an A, and I have 3 A bros - 2 are actively drinking and one quit drinking many years ago but smokes weed 24/7/365. My mom is the chief enabler and denier of reality. With the help of AlAnon I got to a place where I could really detach, both from my A brothers insanity and from my mom's enabling.
I don't need her to see or say that my bros are alcoholics. I know it. I make my decisions according to what I know. Now that baby bro has moved in with her, more is being revealed to her about the reality of his problem. So she will learn in her own time and in her own way whatever it is she needs to learn!
Meanwhile, it is hard to be around people in denial, because you can't pretend, in fact pretending or going along with denial is a form of enabling. For myself, the task that led to the most serenity for me was to completely stop enabling my A brothers. AlAnon helped me figure out just how insidious enabling can be.
What sucks about the family disease of alcoholism is that for many years a pattern of behavior/communication has been established. And when one family member starts to rock the boat by pointing out REALITY they often get scapegoated as the problem, because the need within the family to deny the alcoholism and the force that the alcoholic exerts to prevent things from changing is very great.
For me, once the veil was removed on my father's alcoholism I just could not pretend anymore and keep my sanity. But I had to LEARN how to accept that that's just me! I don't feel a need to be confrontational and prove anything anymore (although I definitely had to go through that phase!).
Not easy. Try AlAnon or read Codependent No More. Those helped me a lot.
peace-
b
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 7
Well one thing I can promise you, especially where active/sneaking alcoholism and denial are concerned: more will be revealed. So just be confident in what YOU know.
And when one family member starts to rock the boat by pointing out REALITY they often get scapegoated as the problem, because the need within the family to deny the alcoholism and the force that the alcoholic exerts to prevent things from changing is very great.
But I had to LEARN how to accept that that's just me! I don't feel a need to be confrontational and prove anything anymore (although I definitely had to go through that phase!).
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