Is it ever a GOOD thing to NOT kick out an addict?
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Is it ever a GOOD thing to NOT kick out an addict?
Hi Everyone,
I've been posting here about my addict daughter, who has been told she has until June 1st to find somewhere else to live. Things seemed to be peaceful around here until today when she told me the landlord at the place she has put a security deposit down on is requiring her to also have a co-signer for the lease. Is this common? Why should a 22 year old (adult) be required to have a cosigner? Unfortunately for her we will NOT be cosigning. We sense a serious red flag putting ourselves on the hook for this.
Anyway, the real reason I'm here is I've been wondering if anyone has experience with addict who actually got better while living at home. I'm not really having doubts about our decision to kick her out... but I just was wondering. Is it possible and can anyone here attest to it?
I know how it's said an addict needs to hit rock bottom before turning around... but I also have this worry that kicking her out might truly break her spirit and... it could be the end of her.
Thanks for listening.
I've been posting here about my addict daughter, who has been told she has until June 1st to find somewhere else to live. Things seemed to be peaceful around here until today when she told me the landlord at the place she has put a security deposit down on is requiring her to also have a co-signer for the lease. Is this common? Why should a 22 year old (adult) be required to have a cosigner? Unfortunately for her we will NOT be cosigning. We sense a serious red flag putting ourselves on the hook for this.
Anyway, the real reason I'm here is I've been wondering if anyone has experience with addict who actually got better while living at home. I'm not really having doubts about our decision to kick her out... but I just was wondering. Is it possible and can anyone here attest to it?
I know how it's said an addict needs to hit rock bottom before turning around... but I also have this worry that kicking her out might truly break her spirit and... it could be the end of her.
Thanks for listening.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
Letting my son live at home never worked for me.
We allowed that several times, when he was clean and was going to meetings and "doing" the "do" things. But then he would relapse and we would continue the dance of trying to get him to leave. It was never easy but always necessary. When using he would steal from us, disappear and not let us know where he was, leading to worry on our part. He would lie, and he would bring drugs home and use them in his room.
My home, my safehaven, would become a battle ground every time.
Any time he had a year or more clean, he got it living on his own, often after attending a rehab.
We haven't heard from him in almost 6 years, last heard he was using and I suspect he still is, or struggling.
If he showed up at my door tomorrow, he still could not live here. I almost lost my sanity once and don't ever want to go back to that dark place again. I know now that "I" am not the only answer, "I" am not his solution. I think he knows that too, wherever he is. I would encourage and support his efforts to find or keep his sobriety...just not with him living here.
Hope this helps.
Hugs
We allowed that several times, when he was clean and was going to meetings and "doing" the "do" things. But then he would relapse and we would continue the dance of trying to get him to leave. It was never easy but always necessary. When using he would steal from us, disappear and not let us know where he was, leading to worry on our part. He would lie, and he would bring drugs home and use them in his room.
My home, my safehaven, would become a battle ground every time.
Any time he had a year or more clean, he got it living on his own, often after attending a rehab.
We haven't heard from him in almost 6 years, last heard he was using and I suspect he still is, or struggling.
If he showed up at my door tomorrow, he still could not live here. I almost lost my sanity once and don't ever want to go back to that dark place again. I know now that "I" am not the only answer, "I" am not his solution. I think he knows that too, wherever he is. I would encourage and support his efforts to find or keep his sobriety...just not with him living here.
Hope this helps.
Hugs
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by Ann 
Letting my son live at home never worked for me.
We allowed that several times, when he was clean and was going to meetings and "doing" the "do" things. But then he would relapse and we would continue the dance of trying to get him to leave. It was never easy but always necessary. When using he would steal from us, disappear and not let us know where he was, leading to worry on our part. He would lie, and he would bring drugs home and use them in his room.
My home, my safehaven, would become a battle ground every time.
Any time he had a year or more clean, he got it living on his own, often after attending a rehab.
We haven't heard from him in almost 6 years, last heard he was using and I suspect he still is, or struggling.
If he showed up at my door tomorrow, he still could not live here. I almost lost my sanity once and don't ever want to go back to that dark place again. I know now that "I" am not the only answer, "I" am not his solution. I think he knows that too, wherever he is. I would encourage and support his efforts to find or keep his sobriety...just not with him living here.
Hope this helps.
Hugs
We allowed that several times, when he was clean and was going to meetings and "doing" the "do" things. But then he would relapse and we would continue the dance of trying to get him to leave. It was never easy but always necessary. When using he would steal from us, disappear and not let us know where he was, leading to worry on our part. He would lie, and he would bring drugs home and use them in his room.
My home, my safehaven, would become a battle ground every time.
Any time he had a year or more clean, he got it living on his own, often after attending a rehab.
We haven't heard from him in almost 6 years, last heard he was using and I suspect he still is, or struggling.
If he showed up at my door tomorrow, he still could not live here. I almost lost my sanity once and don't ever want to go back to that dark place again. I know now that "I" am not the only answer, "I" am not his solution. I think he knows that too, wherever he is. I would encourage and support his efforts to find or keep his sobriety...just not with him living here.
Hope this helps.
Hugs
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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Originally Posted by anvilhead
well let's take the addict part out of it for a sec........she's 22, a reasonable age for a young lady to strike out on her own. she ran into a roadblock on ONE apartment.......surely there are more. this is called living in grown up land, where things do not always go our way and we have to develop skills on how to deal, find another solution.
is it her disappointment you are trying to buffer here? many apts will ask for a co-signer with someone with a short or spotty employment history. she may have to look elsewhere.
now to your question, can an addict recover "at home" - meaning at home with mom and dad? certainly, but not unless the ADDICT is ready AND the parents/support system have VERY strong boundaries and uphold them rigidly.
i got the boot at 19........
my daughter went off to college at 17 and never did return "home" even afterwards, she'd set up shop down in LA by then.......
is it her disappointment you are trying to buffer here? many apts will ask for a co-signer with someone with a short or spotty employment history. she may have to look elsewhere.
now to your question, can an addict recover "at home" - meaning at home with mom and dad? certainly, but not unless the ADDICT is ready AND the parents/support system have VERY strong boundaries and uphold them rigidly.
i got the boot at 19........
my daughter went off to college at 17 and never did return "home" even afterwards, she'd set up shop down in LA by then.......
She actually has a good employment history... not sure how long that will last however.
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Originally Posted by anvilhead
i just sensed you were second guessing a bit there because after she put donw a security deposit the landlord also wants a co-signer which appears to be a roadblock for her. and i just wondered if you were mentally backtracking a bit....wondering if it COULD somehow work out with her still at home....
i think it's really time to "let" her use her wings.....she obviously is not inclined to respect your house and your rules, let her go get her own and she can do whatever she wants.
i think it's really time to "let" her use her wings.....she obviously is not inclined to respect your house and your rules, let her go get her own and she can do whatever she wants.
I really am not feeling like it COULD work out for her at home. But I am not a fortune teller... and perhaps I do wonder on occasion if her staying here might be the lesser of two evils. But then I'm reminded... she needs to go.
What you said about wings - well said.
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Join Date: Aug 2005
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Hope44, I can only relate from my own AD. It did NOT work out when she was living with us. Now that she is on her own, she's turned a corner, working a good program, changing her attitude and in general feeling good about herself.
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Originally Posted by Serenity Bound
Hope44, I can only relate from my own AD. It did NOT work out when she was living with us. Now that she is on her own, she's turned a corner, working a good program, changing her attitude and in general feeling good about herself.
Last edited by greeteachday; 05-19-2010 at 06:51 PM. Reason: no more angry steam :)
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hope,
perhaps you've read here the definition of "enabling": doing something for another that they could or should be doing for themselves.
at 22, it's probably time to leave the nest, whether there is drug use or not.
but, since there is, you really have no choice, imo. if she stays, more angst and stress than you might imagine could be awaiting you. you will (possibly) enter the world of crazy and start to lose your own life. then come the resentments. i would urge you to continue to stand your ground.
and yes, it is now commonplace i believe for the nicer rentals to require a co-signer. my daughter at age 19 needed this for her apt with three other friends. i said that i was sorry, but i just didn't feel comfortable doing it. a relative of one of the roomies did. on their first weekend in that BEAUTIFUL fancy apartment they had a party, in which a friend of a friend who heard about the party threw up off the building roof, police were called and they were evicted the next day.
perhaps you've read here the definition of "enabling": doing something for another that they could or should be doing for themselves.
at 22, it's probably time to leave the nest, whether there is drug use or not.
but, since there is, you really have no choice, imo. if she stays, more angst and stress than you might imagine could be awaiting you. you will (possibly) enter the world of crazy and start to lose your own life. then come the resentments. i would urge you to continue to stand your ground.
and yes, it is now commonplace i believe for the nicer rentals to require a co-signer. my daughter at age 19 needed this for her apt with three other friends. i said that i was sorry, but i just didn't feel comfortable doing it. a relative of one of the roomies did. on their first weekend in that BEAUTIFUL fancy apartment they had a party, in which a friend of a friend who heard about the party threw up off the building roof, police were called and they were evicted the next day.
get it, give it, grow in it
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calif coast
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THERE ARE PLENTY OF ADS - "room-mate wanted" "room for rent with house share"
needing no co-sign and cheaper rent in an established apt or house.
I gave my son 1 hr. notice to get out once.
He's 2 yrs sober and I still would not be his co-signer
The chaos of addiction not happening in my house
and after rehab my house is not the place to build a sober life.
Not good for parent or adult child
needing no co-sign and cheaper rent in an established apt or house.
I gave my son 1 hr. notice to get out once.
He's 2 yrs sober and I still would not be his co-signer
The chaos of addiction not happening in my house
and after rehab my house is not the place to build a sober life.
Not good for parent or adult child
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: central coast, ca
Posts: 1,652
We told out 18 year old AD that she had run out of chances..after paying for rehab and doing all we felt comfortable doing. She is not in recovery, but I am and let me tell you.. having your own space back can be very healing. Now we are asking 20 yr. old to leave to.. I want my own house!!!
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 30
If she refuses to find housing, don't let that hold you hostage. I bet there are plenty of homeless shelters, rehab clinics and women's resource shelters in your area that can help her better than you can. Give her a list of places, a hug and send her on her way. You aren't limited to only three options, an apartment, your house or dead on the street.
The sun still shines
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 472
Originally Posted by Serenity Bound
Hope44, I can only relate from my own AD. It did NOT work out when she was living with us. Now that she is on her own, she's turned a corner, working a good program, changing her attitude and in general feeling good about herself.
Living here gave him the opportunity to feed his addiction without having to worry about the basics and it just progressed and got worse.
What I have noticed both times he got a job was that he got some self-confidence and pride with it. My biggest regret is that I took him back those 2 times. I truly enabled him to get a lot worse right under my eyes.
It is hard to force your child to leave, but I see that it is by far the best option for them.
Something else I have been thinking about lately is that is must be really hard when a child dies, but watching your addicted child slowly killing himself is like mourning his death over and over. There is no closure because you do not know how it will end. So I can understand when you say you feel you are losing your child bit by bit.
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Hope - sounds like you and I are going thru the same thing, except that I am about a year and a half farther down the road. During that time we've given my son many chances at turning his life around, usually based on his ability to lie and manipulate even a smart cookie like me. 
Well, it has finally sunk in that letting him go is THE ONLY WAY for him to get better if that's ever going to happen. He's been out on his own for a couple of weeks now.
I just want to ask you what you are prepared to do if/when June 2nd rolls around and she is still living in your house with a litany of excuses as to why she can't move out? Believe me, the excuses will come.
DO NOT co-sign anything!!!! EVER!!!
Stay in touch. We need each other!
Well, it has finally sunk in that letting him go is THE ONLY WAY for him to get better if that's ever going to happen. He's been out on his own for a couple of weeks now.I just want to ask you what you are prepared to do if/when June 2nd rolls around and she is still living in your house with a litany of excuses as to why she can't move out? Believe me, the excuses will come.
DO NOT co-sign anything!!!! EVER!!!
Stay in touch. We need each other!
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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One of the original questions was whether anyone had ever experienced letting their loved one live at home where they "found" recovery. So far, no one has posted an affirmative to that. Interesting.
I wonder what kind of responses one would get on putting that question out on the general internet (don't know how) so that lots of people could have the chance to respond instead of this little group we have here on soberrecovery.
I wonder what kind of responses one would get on putting that question out on the general internet (don't know how) so that lots of people could have the chance to respond instead of this little group we have here on soberrecovery.
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Originally Posted by sojourner
One of the original questions was whether anyone had ever experienced letting their loved one live at home where they "found" recovery. So far, no one has posted an affirmative to that. Interesting.
I had to work really hard at recovery for her to stay here. My husband didn't want to permanently kick her out and I wasn't going to make that decision for him. So I had a choice, move out or learn how to deal with both of them. I chose the latter. There were times when I had to show her the door but it always remained open for her, when she was ready to do the work.
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Originally Posted by tjp613
Hope - sounds like you and I are going thru the same thing, except that I am about a year and a half farther down the road. During that time we've given my son many chances at turning his life around, usually based on his ability to lie and manipulate even a smart cookie like me. Well, it has finally sunk in that letting him go is THE ONLY WAY for him to get better if that's ever going to happen. He's been out on his own for a couple of weeks now.
I just want to ask you what you are prepared to do if/when June 2nd rolls around and she is still living in your house with a litany of excuses as to why she can't move out? Believe me, the excuses will come.
DO NOT co-sign anything!!!! EVER!!!
Stay in touch. We need each other!
Well, it has finally sunk in that letting him go is THE ONLY WAY for him to get better if that's ever going to happen. He's been out on his own for a couple of weeks now.I just want to ask you what you are prepared to do if/when June 2nd rolls around and she is still living in your house with a litany of excuses as to why she can't move out? Believe me, the excuses will come.
DO NOT co-sign anything!!!! EVER!!!
Stay in touch. We need each other!
As far as what are we prepared to do - good question which I've thought ALOT about! (The excuses are already surfacing.) I really feel we need to stand our ground and follow through. If she does not have a place of her own to move into she will have to find somewhere else or someONE else to stay with until she does. She knows this. I really don't know HOW it's going to play out (and try my best to not worry over the details)... all I know is we need to NOT turn back.
We definitely are not co-signing anything more for her. Unfortunately, four years ago, when she had her head on straight and all the world at her fingertips, we cosigned her college loans. Feeling a bit anxious about that, these days....
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dayton, OH.
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Often, especially these days, landlords will require (not everywhere) that persons under the age of 25 (or are in college) have a co-signer. Partly because they usually do not have a credit history. Partly because they are young and dumb and could do damage or not pay rent and then the landlord will hit up the co-signer. So yes, it's ideal since your daughter is not a responsible person in active addiction, to NOT co-sign anything. There are landlords who will rent without a co-signer. There are other places she can go to as well. If it is not working, it is not working.
Do not allow her to put you through what I put my own mother through. The shame of what I did (stole from her, lied to her, and used drugs in the house!) and the guilt will haunt me forever. Partly it helps to continue to keep me clean. I got clean and stayed clean in her house, but not before I went rampaging on as an active addict first. I started staying with her when I was 33. November of last year I moved into my boyfriend's house, which is just down the street from Mom's. And part of my self-imposed pennance is when she calls, I come running. I don't care if it annoys me because her bi-polar is kicking in. I am grateful that I got clean because an active addict can have a field day with someone that far gone, mentally. I feel horrible for every minute of it. In fact, if you put me on a poligraph and asked if I ever did drugs I can turn the addict on and pass it with lies, but if you asked the RIGHT questions "Did you ever steal from your mother in order to do drugs." I'd fail because I feel so guilty about it.
It's horrible and the list goes on, but I am sharing some of my story because active addicts are best at what they do, but unfortunately NONE of what they do is any good. She'll steal again. She'll keep on lying.
And while yes, we can get clean at home, it's not for everyone and sometimes a COLD, WET, concrete pavement is what our arse's need to wake us up. Maybe it could be her bottom. Maybe not... Time will tell.
But don't sign NOTHING!
My neighbor has twin daughters. Both heroin junkiess (I am the crackhead they ran their car into a couple years ago, the brats!). When they had 6 months in jail, court-ordered rehab, and their license taken away, ya know what Daddy did to make them feel better? Put the car in his name and his insurance and then handed them the keys, knowing they are active slammers AND had no license to drive. And he got the car fixed after it was rammed up under MY truck. And you can guess it. It looks like it's hit a few other things since then. It will be ON him, too, if they hurt someone (I did break a rib, but I was more upset over my truck and my pizza that got trashed) seriously or kill someone.. Funny thing the crackhead said to the junkies that day "STOP F***ing driving around high!" I still giggle at that one sometimes. WHO was I to say that? I was an active addict, then, too. I just happened to not be high at the time. Hense the pizza (crack/cocaine abusers are notorious for not eating).
*hugs* It's got to be a horrible thing to deal with, and I am sorry you're going through it. I cannot imagine what parents go through. What my Mom went through. Her supposedly grown azz daughter running around doing drugs and God knows what else! I can only hope my kids stay on the right path and learn something from my mistakes. At least enough not to go repeating them or making up their own versions of the same show..
Do not allow her to put you through what I put my own mother through. The shame of what I did (stole from her, lied to her, and used drugs in the house!) and the guilt will haunt me forever. Partly it helps to continue to keep me clean. I got clean and stayed clean in her house, but not before I went rampaging on as an active addict first. I started staying with her when I was 33. November of last year I moved into my boyfriend's house, which is just down the street from Mom's. And part of my self-imposed pennance is when she calls, I come running. I don't care if it annoys me because her bi-polar is kicking in. I am grateful that I got clean because an active addict can have a field day with someone that far gone, mentally. I feel horrible for every minute of it. In fact, if you put me on a poligraph and asked if I ever did drugs I can turn the addict on and pass it with lies, but if you asked the RIGHT questions "Did you ever steal from your mother in order to do drugs." I'd fail because I feel so guilty about it.
It's horrible and the list goes on, but I am sharing some of my story because active addicts are best at what they do, but unfortunately NONE of what they do is any good. She'll steal again. She'll keep on lying.
And while yes, we can get clean at home, it's not for everyone and sometimes a COLD, WET, concrete pavement is what our arse's need to wake us up. Maybe it could be her bottom. Maybe not... Time will tell.
But don't sign NOTHING!
My neighbor has twin daughters. Both heroin junkiess (I am the crackhead they ran their car into a couple years ago, the brats!). When they had 6 months in jail, court-ordered rehab, and their license taken away, ya know what Daddy did to make them feel better? Put the car in his name and his insurance and then handed them the keys, knowing they are active slammers AND had no license to drive. And he got the car fixed after it was rammed up under MY truck. And you can guess it. It looks like it's hit a few other things since then. It will be ON him, too, if they hurt someone (I did break a rib, but I was more upset over my truck and my pizza that got trashed) seriously or kill someone.. Funny thing the crackhead said to the junkies that day "STOP F***ing driving around high!" I still giggle at that one sometimes. WHO was I to say that? I was an active addict, then, too. I just happened to not be high at the time. Hense the pizza (crack/cocaine abusers are notorious for not eating).
*hugs* It's got to be a horrible thing to deal with, and I am sorry you're going through it. I cannot imagine what parents go through. What my Mom went through. Her supposedly grown azz daughter running around doing drugs and God knows what else! I can only hope my kids stay on the right path and learn something from my mistakes. At least enough not to go repeating them or making up their own versions of the same show..
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Originally Posted by Hope44
As far as what are we prepared to do - good question which I've thought ALOT about! (The excuses are already surfacing.) I really feel we need to stand our ground and follow through. ....
SAY WHAT YOU MEAN
AND
MEAN WHAT YOU SAY
AND
MEAN WHAT YOU SAY
...otherwise don't bother yourself. Trust me on this one. You will save an immense amount of time and frustration (not to mention money and self-respect) if you just practice that one thing. I tried real hard and still think I did a pretty good job....it just wasn't good enough and what happened was a bunch of wasted time and money with absolutely -zero- progress on AS's part. All he learned was how to be a better manipulator and he killed a bunch more brain cells in that time.
But, I realize that's all hindsight for me. At the time they seemed like good decisions. I've had several light-bulb moments since then.
NOW I get it.
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Just wanting to say thank you to everyone for sharing your stories and the helpful advice. Having read all the replies I'm feeling validated that we are handling this the best we can. I don't know what else we can do. She knows we are serious about her leaving. She has put down a security deposit, has the use of a friend's truck to move her things, and today just informed me that the landlady will forgo the co-sign thing IF she pays three months rent upfront, which she would get back when she moves out. She was not happy with us for not cosigning but she seems to be working through it. Because the date is getting so close and she does not HAVE the three months rent and WE are not giving it to her, she is borrowing it from a friend. I can only hope and pray she will pay him back.
She lived in the dorms her freshman year of college and then in Hawaii for her sophomore year so this will not be entirely new to her, living away from home. It WILL be new, however, trying to pay for things like rent and food while using drugs. Hopefully.... hopefully.... this will all work for GOOD. It'll be tearful seeing her pack up and go. I truly hope this is the best thing for her. I suppose that's up to her.
She lived in the dorms her freshman year of college and then in Hawaii for her sophomore year so this will not be entirely new to her, living away from home. It WILL be new, however, trying to pay for things like rent and food while using drugs. Hopefully.... hopefully.... this will all work for GOOD. It'll be tearful seeing her pack up and go. I truly hope this is the best thing for her. I suppose that's up to her.
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