FreeingMyself

Ok...so quickly AH started drinking again, and I knew it was going to increase so several days ago I told him I would not do it again, so he had a choice to make. When he came home drunk for the 5th time in 2 weeks - (the first time after I told him to make a choice) - I send an email asking him to find somewhere else to stay as long as he is going to drink and not seek recovery. So that was Sunday AM. Now, he sent me some rather mean messages like, tell my kids when you kiss them goodnight I am sleeping in my truck, and other similar things. So finally my guilt got the best of me and I said fine you can come back just don't drink. So he was here this evening acting like everything was "normal" like nothing had happened....just like every other time. So I looked at him and said I'm not going to pretend everything is ok...it is going to take work. He got angry and left the kitchen and said fine I won't take anymore of your time.....got angrier said a few more things took his things and left. OK....so now he is gone again....so here is my question what is it that makes me "crack" when I know what I am doing is right? And then this, which is about his behavior - I have read on here tha tmost of the AH's actually apologize to their wifes when they have done hurtful or mean things......, they actually tell them they was them back...mine has NEVEr apologized not even for putting his hands around my neck in the past......so does he reallly not feel the need to apologize, or maybe he just doesn't really want any of this either???? Anyway, ,your thoughts are very much appreciated.

wanting

There are plenty of people on here whose AHs don't apologize or want them back. We're the lucky ones!

Holy crap, you have a man in your house who choked you before.

FreeingMyself

OK...well I was going to write back and minimize what he had done....but he did put his hands around my neck and threaten to kill me.....funny how writing that makes me feel stupid for thinking there is a shred of decency to him...

posiesperson

Well...my take is this: apologies or no apologies, if the drinker isn't in recovery then it's all the same: meaningless. Empty words. Things said to keep the partner in the same place, same conversation, same distraction. Doesn't mean a thing!

So your AH has learned that you respond to guilt. It's not that you're weak, you're just plain HUMAN, and he will continue to press those buttons. Are you thoughtless and uncaring about your kids? Of course not! If you were completely uncaring of your children's wellbeing you would have let his sorry a** stay there, drinking into oblivion, letting the kids be in the house while he finds other reasons to wrap his hands around your neck. Which, by the way, is domestic violence, which tends to intensify/progress (just like alcoholism).

It's not that he doesn't want the relationship, he just wants you to accept whatever abuse he plans to deal out to you, wants you to shut up about his drinking, desire nothing for yourself or your kids, so that ALL of you can respond to his every whim. He is firmly in the grasp of this disease, and there's not a d*mn thing you can do about it.

At least, that's my experience with my exA... And I had to get out of the relationship, make a commitment to my life and my kids, and am figuring out how to be alone. Hell, I was ALONE in the relationship! What I'm finding out now is that I am actually exceedingly good company for myself: trustworthy, loyal, thoughtful, hospitable, calm, supportive. All the stuff my exA couldn't truly recognize and appreciate because of the distraction of alcohol and other behaviors...now I get to shower myself with the good stuff I deserve! I have no idea when I'll get into another relationship, but I know it will NOT involve the kind of cr*p that I've put up with before.

Big hugs, mentallyexh. Get in touch with your dreams for yourself, and the dreams your children have, and I'm pretty sure that NONE of those dreams includes the kind of treatment that this man is dishing out.

posie

naive

hi mentally exhausted-

it's hard to think of him sleeping in his truck, but that is what we are to do, let them hit their bottom.

be careful, tho, because with mine, he would play on my compassion and it would actually be a lie.

here's an example: sometimes, mine would drink until his nose bled for days. it frequently made me take him back in, as i was alarmed at all the blood.

so, last time i asked him to leave me alone, a few days later, he comes over with a nose bleed, saying all he wants to do is lie down in my bed. he shows me a tissue with blood. i think to myself, no! i can't handle this again. i tell him to go to the hospital and shut the door.

an hour later, i run into a friend, who invites me into a bar i never go into. i go in and xABF is there playing pool, with a pint in his hand.

it was just an odd synchronous moment...the whole thing was an act to play on me.

you take now.

naive

suki44883

Once a man puts his hands on me in a violent manner, it's all over. It's only happened once and the result was a divorce. There is NO excuse for violence and anyone who would put his hands around your throat and threaten to kill you DOES NOT love you. Let him sleep in his truck, under a bridge or on a picnic table in the park. The only thing that matters is that he is not in your home.

Jadmack25

His drinking and behavior has "murdered" your marriage, and to my mind it wasn't assault or DV, when he did his chokie act....it was attempted murder of YOU.

Frankly he should be grateful he has a truck to sleep in, as he really deserves a concrete bed in a cell.

Let him know he can go do whatever he wants, you no longer care, want to know or intend helping him. He can go play in his pity pen and be the a*sehole he is somewhere else, and leave you and your kids in peace.

God bless

AchilleysTendon

Hello Mentallyexh,
I did things like your describing to my wife at first out of embarassment and denial. I would blame her for things I did or did not do . I would be so hung over the next day of drinking ( my wife had no clue) I could not argue or talk to her. I would just spue "crap" to "shut her up" . It is hard to look at yourself sometimes. You "crack" cuz you love him.. The night in the truck should have been a big sign to your Hubby... But I gotta be truthfull I spent the night at my work (sure I owned the building) but the issue is the same... I knew then I had issues to deal with. God Bless You... I am sending HUGS.. Please PM me if I can help

ItsmeAlice

I have to agree with Posie. He doesn't need to apologize because that is not what pushes your buttons. From your post. I read he relies on heavy guilt to keep you in line, and that is just what he is trying to do, keep you in line.

'Tell my kids I'm sleeping in my truck.' That's a guilt trip verging on the rediculous, and yet he knows it will work on you.

He storms out because that dramatic pouting makes you feel like the eternal bad guy and his bad behavior gets written off time and time again.

Even now, as angry as you feel at letting him back in only to have him pitch a fit, you feel the need to minimize his behavior and minimizing a physical assult, I'm sure, is impossible to believe, but it's what we do. You are not alone.

With his track record of guilt riding, I would not be surprised if he made you feel absolutely horrible for his having to choke you in the first place.

In my experience, my EX was all about the apologies with the occasional tears thrown in. He could really turn it on and look pitiful. I have this cynical view of it now because I have finally accepted it for what it was, manipulation. If he really meant the apologies and really meant the vows to quit and never behave that way again, it wouldn't have gotten worse, and he wouldn't have drunk more, he wouldn't have threatened me, and I would probably still be with him. The last contact I had from him was at the end of a long run of voice mails before I blocked his number. He started out apologetic and well meaning as usual and by the last one, he was raging at me. No apology would ever last with him even when it came right down to it because he never was sorry...never.

Only distance and clarity could help me see what was really going on. With distance and clarity you too can become resistant to the manipulation.

It's okay to feel bad, you're human. It's okay to wish things could have worked out, we all do. It's okay to hope he gets better in the future and your kids can at least see their father well, that's because you're a mom.

But...it is not okay for you to be in contact with him. He made that choice by trying to hurt you and now you have to stay safe. Your children need you. If he takes you down with him, what will they be left with?

Be safe. Keep posting.

Peace.
Alice

AchilleysTendon

I am sorry I just reread your post. NOBODY has the right to put their hands on you!!! I never did anything like that!!! I agree with Alice you are being manipulated. When I was truly sorry and ready for help, I begged for forgivness and was gratefull to get it!!

wicked

mentallyexh,
i seem to remember you have very young children, including an infant where you were confined to bed rest and your husband threw things at you, like the laundry?
he comes home drunk 5 times in two weeks and when you try to enforce the consequences of his behavior all it takes is a little manipulative pity party to let him back in.
i think what makes you crack is waiting and hoping he will "get" it and apologize for all the hurt he has caused. I don't know about most of the AH's apologizing to their wives, unless they have gone through a complete spiritual transformation and start making amends. I dont think your husband is anywhere near that, has he started any recovery program?
He keeps coming back, because he can and he sees nothing wrong with his behavior.
Where are your children while this abusive alcoholic husband is around?
What do you think they are learning from your behavior, your leniency with enforcing boundaries?
My experience is ongoing. I had hopes that even if we divorced, exAH would want to be in the children's lives. No, only when it was convenient, he would arrive drunk and I had to be the evil bitch who said no. My children learned that fathers are unreliable, lying, thieving, truck living addicts.
My daughter is dating an addict, was on heroin but now using alchohol and benzos to self medicate. She thinks she can change him and bring out the good in him. Guess where she learned that?
It is a daily struggle, and I think I am finally getting through to her, especially since he started sleeping in his grandmothers car. He will not make any changes, because he is fine with what he is. I ask her often, can you accept him exactly as he is? I think she is finally seeing that if nothing changes, nothing changes.
Please remember your children when allowing your husband to stay there.
You could be paying for years while waiting for him to reach enlightenment.
Beth

coffeedrinker

i think that alice and posie gave you really good insight.

my xah did the thing all the time, where they just show up, or get up in the morning and behave as though nothing HUGE had just happened.

it's shame.

they can't face what they have done, what they are. can't face it.
how do you not face something? you simply don't.

WE are self-reflective. WE question. WE try and make sense of things that don't make sense. WE try and reason, and understand.

THEY do not.

i think sometimes we beat our heads against a wall because we don't get why they are not like us: truthful, analytical, trying to grow.
but these people ARE NOT.

i don't know about your other question. i, too try to understand why i have tolerated so much. i think it's all been said. it's just hard to get it.

sesh

I just want to second what said by Possie, Itsmealice and Coffee.
It's manipulation and yet it's not even personal. They just tend to do anything they feel needs to be done to continue living their life the way they want to.
My STBXAH did the same thing (was never violent) never appologized for anything and manipulated me each time by making no response to whatever I said or did. If I talked or screamed at him he remained calm and said he has no idea what I'm talking about, if I keep pressing that he needs to appologize, he'd say: OK, I'm sorry than, if I asked him to leave he'd pack his staff and he was gone until I asked him to come back.
he knew I coulnd't stand being ignored and not being aknowledged that way and that I'll do anything to get different reaction from him. He knew as long as he doesn't give it to me, he's home safe, nothing it going to rock his slured world. He had me just where he wanted me, and I was too stupid/lost/desperate/hopeful/or whatever to see it.
And I honestly believe it wasn't even personal, that's what he had to do to protect his addiction. And the bottom line is I let him do it, as my life is my responibility as much as his life is his.
I finally figured if you don't want someone to treat you certain way than don't let them, there is always a choice, you can't make anyone do what you want them to do, but you can not take it.
And I have to give him one, he was right when he said I was too analytical, as the truth is there was no need for it, in the essence things were quite simple: he is who he is, and I could take it or leave it. But by trying to analyze his behaviour I just made myself crazy.
Sometimes it is best to be superficial, and not to look into depths of situations that has nothing deep about itself.

TakingCharge999

I hope you realize soon his behavior towards you has been and still is completely unacceptable.

Kmber2010

I have been following your story and I just hope that you will find the courage and strength to put an end to the madness. You may forgive him and work things out through eventually but you are beating your head against a wall until he is off the sauce and has time in recovery. Simply putting down the bottle for a few days to stay in the house is not recovery. He has many issues as you do that you will need to address individually.

The man put his hands around your neck and you still let him back in. Again, drunk or not...he is a danger to yourself and to your children. Please think of your kids if not yourself because you know what he has done and you still allow him back in your home.

That is a toxic situation and I only wish you could hold the line. That whole situation will not be erased by his simply sobering up but a long time of support and think of the damage already caused to you and your kids.

Please stay strong with getting help for yourself. I am thinking of you.

dollydo

Physical abuse is a deal breaker. The more you let him back in, the more aggressive he will become, it is the nature of the bird.

Your first priorty is the safety and well-being of your children. This type of enviorment will have an impact on your children, this can effect their entire life, they hear and see everything (whether you realize it or not).

I know, I lived it as a child with my parents, they both drank...it was not a pretty story, it took me years to sort the whole mess out...today at 62, I still have battle scars.

A verbal apology means nothing, it is just a bandaid, actions are the only apology that truely mean anything, they do all the talking. Take care.

theuncertainty

mentallyexh,

The title of your post is "Plz help me understand me". I'm not sure that I - or any one else really - can do that. I'm still trying to figure myself out. What I do know is that, as part of my own recovery from living with my AH, I'm searching for an understanding of myself, my emotions, reactions, behaviors, etc.

I've known my AH 20 years: living with and then married to him for 16 years; finally left him 2 years ago. During the first 18 years of our relationship, I slowly lost myself - first in the rosy haze of being his girl, then his wife and then in the fog of his alcoholism. All I knew was that I loved him and our son and I *had* to make our family work (i.e. fix AH), because where would any of us be without being a family? (Needless to say, fixing my AH is way beyond my capabilities.)

AH knew that I wanted our family to be a family and he would use that to manipulate me, hurt me emotionally, and guilt me into protecting him from the consequences of his drinking.

I had left him once before this current separation and went back to him after only 2 months when he apologized and said he'd started attending AA (empty words and outright lies). I wanted to believe him. I had craved that apology and thought that if he could say it, he could mean it and everything would be all right or at least get better. I don’t think he meant it and nothing was all right and everything got worse.

Apologies from practicing A's mean little to nothing and now I'm realizing that it's not the apology that counts, but it is his actions that matter.

If you got the apology you're hoping for from your AH, would you believe him? Would it truly change anything in your relationship?

I agree with the other SR members who’ve posted about the physical abuse. I think that A's who also have a problem with anger management (even if it is only when they drink) tend to get worse as their alcoholism spirals out of control. Please know that you and your family are worthy of love and a safe home environment.

My best wishes to you.

Bernadette

Well maybe you just aren't in ENOUGH pain yet to really change? Or you just don't believe things in your life can change and be better/different?

peace-
b

Kassie2

I would consider that your husband is pretty far gone in his addiction. I am concerned about that and wonder if you understand the progression of the illness. It may mean that he is never sober long in between drinks to be able to recognize what has happened, it could mean that he is blacking out a lot, unless he was this way early on which would indicate a personality disorder, it is not a good sign. Read more about the progression of the illness and the signs to see what stage he is in. It seems like bad news. But that is only based on the information you give us.

Mine stopped apologizing when sober, but incorporated more rational thoughts that showed me he was thinking about things and working on changing them. In stead of apologizing he began to say things like, " you may be right" or " you usually know what to do", or " I need to work on this part of myself more."

Hope that helps you to sort out what you need to understand.

VNegative

I began my recovery a little while ago, and I would like to offer my insight to possibly help you understand what is going on. Keep in mind though that while many alcoholics share common threads, the same doesn't hold true for all of them. So, I will share my experience rather than making general statements. Also keep in mind though that I was apologetic, so I can’t say how likely it is that he’s remorseful even if he doesn’t show it. Also, I was not physically violent. Physical violence is extremely dangerous, and should not be tolerated; all it takes to kill someone is a moderately strong hit to the wrong place. He may not have hit you yet, but choking can be a precursor to hitting.

After I began my recovery, I stated looking back at some of the things that made me angry, sad, and hurt. I noticed that (before I stopped drinking) I was feeling just as angry or hurt over something just by thinking about it as I was when it happened, even if it had been years ago. There's a common saying in AA: at first it was fun, then it was fun with problems, then it was just problems. For several years, I would stop drinking for a little while or cut back if I felt it was going too far. About five years ago, I started drinking solely for the purpose of "dealing" with my feelings. The catch I didn’t see at the time was that my feelings weren’t being dealt with, they were just being covered up. This time, I didn’t stop drinking when it started causing problems and getting miserable. Over time, all those feelings built up and drove me into complete misery. Imagine if everything that had hurt you, made you sad, or made you angry in the past 5 years put together felt just as bad today as it did when it happened. That's a lot of hurt to have inside. While I don't like to be too presumptuous, I believe this happens with many alcoholics, and it is often why the pain associated with drinking is progressive.

All these negative emotions drove me into the ground. I felt worthless, incompetent, insecure, guilty, ashamed, and angry. The more I drank, the more I hurt. And the more I hurt, the more I drank. I worried constantly, became paranoid, delusional, and lashed out at people simply over thoughts and assumptions that raced around in my head. My perception of reality was very distorted, and though I knew drinking made everything worse, I didn’t began to understand what was happening with me until I sobered up.

Alcohol is much more powerful that many who haven’t fallen into it’s trap realize. It has been scientifically proven that it changes the way the brain functions. The brain begins to see alcohol as just as much of a "need" as food and water. I don't find this hard to believe; sometimes I would drink for days on end without eating. I would be so starved and dehydrated after a few days that I would start gulping down any food and non-alcoholic liquids in sight. Alcohol overpowered my most basic needs. Also, you would think that if someone was doing something that hurt them so badly inside, or hurt those they loved so much, they would stop doing it. But understand that it is an extremely powerful compulsion. I know that when I started getting a craving for a drink, my mouth would water, my heart would start racing, I would feel a tension building up in my body, and my thoughts were completely consumed by it.

I know being in your situation is heartbreaking, so I hope this has given you some insight into some of the things that may be causing him to do what he does. However, this does not mean that you should continue to tolerate it. I hate to stick my nose where it doesn’t belong, but my advice would be to leave or kick him out completely (make him find another place to stay for a while). If he truly loves you and values you, he will quit. I say this because my ex-fiance kicked me out, and it spurred me to start going to AA (I haven’t gotten her back yet, but it’s only been a couple of months :P). Then again, he may not quit. One thing is for certain though; if you stay, he’s going to keep drinking until something else makes him hit “rock bottom,” and there’s no telling how long that could take.