An Update and a caution against Terminal Uniqueness
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An Update and a caution against Terminal Uniqueness
My XAH left the Salvation Army of his own volition after being a model participant in their program for 2 and 1/2 months. That time was very confusing/triggering for me as I wanted to encourage him to continue seeking recovery, I wanted his daughter to be able to have a relationship with her father, and I think deep down I wanted to know he was going to remain an option for me romantically, because now he was "getting better". Although I have been in a relationship of my own for the last year. But I had a lot of guilty feelings about this too, thinking that perhaps I did abandon him prematurely, whatever.
Anyway, when he left, I thought it was the wrong thing to do, but I did sort of understand why he was doing it, because he felt that he needed to move on to the "getting a job and supporting myself" phase and that was difficult to accomplish in that environment, because he wasn't allowed a cell phone or access to a computer, plus he was working for them, so I sort of bought his reason for leaving early.
Apparently at least one of his sisters bought it too, because she let him live with him once he left, an option he did not have available to him before he entered the program (his sisters were all fed up with his relapses and had pretty much cut him off). So, the codie part of me was appeased that he had a safety net that he did not have before.
So...after two weeks of him being out, and telling me that he did not think he could see our daughter anymore, because seeing her just reminded him of the fact that he did not have his intact family, which he wanted more than anything...I slipped, and had a night of long, meaningful phone contact with him, wherein I was drunk (yep, slipped on that too...I've been in AA since last summer), and let myself believe, and even say, that which I felt I had been holding in and only not releasing because of my new relationship, which was....that I would give him another chance if he could stay sober for a year. He had relapsed the night before, after being sober for almost 3 months.
I woke up the next morning with a pounding headache and mixed emotions. On the one hand, I felt terrible that I had relapsed, and that I had betrayed my new relationship by telling my XAH that he still had a chance with me if certain parameters were met. On the other hand, I felt almost relieved that I had finally gotten it out there...that we obviously still both had feelings for each other, and that it didn't have to be "over" if he were able to live sober and if we both worked an active recovery program. I had also told him in our conversation that I would give him the rest of the money he was owed from the sale of a car he had gotten in the divorce. This was money that he said he needed in order to move on and start a new life.
I met with him...it was nice. I gave him the cashier's check, and we went to lunch. I said nothing encouraging, having still not worked out in my mind what I wanted my drunken conversation with him the night before to mean, but I really felt that perhaps there was a glimmer of hope that in the future, in a year or so, we might be able to be a family again.
Then...he called me two nights later obviously blasted. And it was then I knew...I really am not that powerful, just what everyone has been trying to tell me all along. I truly believed, until then, that I was somehow the exception to that rule. That my XAH was smarter than most (and he is...he has his juris doctorate--law degree--not that it has gotten him anything other than hideous debt) and that I was smarter than most (and I am...I'm a Jeopardy champ, for pity's sake) and that our love story was more powerful than most (and it is...I met him when he was married in 94, we remet by happenstance when he was divorced in 2000, and to hear us tell it, it was the rejoining of star-crossed lovers) so much so that....I really believed, I guess, still, somewhere deep within me, that we would somehow work all of this craziness out still and still end up together.
This was not, by the way, my conscious desire for at least the last year that I have been in the new relationship. I still thought what I wanted most was to be free to be me and to be in this new relationship. But I kept hanging onto him, by talking to him every day, easing his way, whatever. I kept enabling, and caring, etc.
Somehow, hearing his drunken voice after I had just told him two days ago that I would give him a chance again (something I had never allowed myself to say to him before--I wanted him to think there was no hope so he would give up on me) hit it all home for me....he is NOT going to change, not anytime soon, and I am NOT that powerful. I wasn't the wake-up call he needed, the motivation he needed, the light in his life that would let him gravitate towards more light. I just was, and am, what I am...which is a confused, abused, woman who is letting this man manipulate me again, and again.
He has already told me he doesn't want to see our daughter unless I can tell him there is a hope for us in the future. Then fine. Don't see her. Makes my plans easier, not having to work around his.
He calls, but less than he did before. I had my daughter leave a message on his machine once, and called him back once and had her talk with him. If he wants more contact, he can let me know that. Until then, I don't care to know what he's doing. I'm afraid he has let it all go to **** again, but whatever, he's picked himself up from that before. Apparently, it really doesn't make a difference what I say or do. Before, I really believed that it did. Now, I get that it doesn't. I will still probably have some bare minimum contact with him because of our kid, but now I can hand the phone over to her and not involve myself in his life. Drunk, not drunk, job, no job, living at his sisters, or homeless, it was always going to be like this. And if I would have taken him back, "saved him" again, he'd be drunk, jobless, and abusive within weeks. I do believe that.
Before, I had such guilt because I believed I had a big part to play in why it all went wrong for him. Now, I know that I was just a small shack trying to do force with a Tsunami. Of course there's good in him. There's good in everyone. But I'm not a powerful enough force to make the good in him prevail. His addiction is too strong, and his addiction causes him to make awful choices and not give a **** about the consequences, and it seems to feed off of easy circumstances. My addiction is primarily him, and secondarily booze. I've been treating it, and will continue to do so, with these boards, therapy, and AA. I'm going to add Al-Anon to the mix on a more regular basis in the next few weeks. I'm cleaning up my side of the street. For now, I just don't answer his phone calls. It does feel better.
And I am still in my relationship. We date once a week. He's very supportive, and I try to be supportive of him too. I thank God for him because I do believe I would have never had the strength to leave for good otherwise. Maybe we'll end up together, maybe not. We've talked about a lot of this (some things he prefers not to know and I prefer not to tell him) but for now, we are both working on ourselves and are cautiously optimistic that at some time in the future we may both be in a place to fully commit ourselves. Until then, date night Friday is always nice.
Anyway, when he left, I thought it was the wrong thing to do, but I did sort of understand why he was doing it, because he felt that he needed to move on to the "getting a job and supporting myself" phase and that was difficult to accomplish in that environment, because he wasn't allowed a cell phone or access to a computer, plus he was working for them, so I sort of bought his reason for leaving early.
Apparently at least one of his sisters bought it too, because she let him live with him once he left, an option he did not have available to him before he entered the program (his sisters were all fed up with his relapses and had pretty much cut him off). So, the codie part of me was appeased that he had a safety net that he did not have before.
So...after two weeks of him being out, and telling me that he did not think he could see our daughter anymore, because seeing her just reminded him of the fact that he did not have his intact family, which he wanted more than anything...I slipped, and had a night of long, meaningful phone contact with him, wherein I was drunk (yep, slipped on that too...I've been in AA since last summer), and let myself believe, and even say, that which I felt I had been holding in and only not releasing because of my new relationship, which was....that I would give him another chance if he could stay sober for a year. He had relapsed the night before, after being sober for almost 3 months.
I woke up the next morning with a pounding headache and mixed emotions. On the one hand, I felt terrible that I had relapsed, and that I had betrayed my new relationship by telling my XAH that he still had a chance with me if certain parameters were met. On the other hand, I felt almost relieved that I had finally gotten it out there...that we obviously still both had feelings for each other, and that it didn't have to be "over" if he were able to live sober and if we both worked an active recovery program. I had also told him in our conversation that I would give him the rest of the money he was owed from the sale of a car he had gotten in the divorce. This was money that he said he needed in order to move on and start a new life.
I met with him...it was nice. I gave him the cashier's check, and we went to lunch. I said nothing encouraging, having still not worked out in my mind what I wanted my drunken conversation with him the night before to mean, but I really felt that perhaps there was a glimmer of hope that in the future, in a year or so, we might be able to be a family again.
Then...he called me two nights later obviously blasted. And it was then I knew...I really am not that powerful, just what everyone has been trying to tell me all along. I truly believed, until then, that I was somehow the exception to that rule. That my XAH was smarter than most (and he is...he has his juris doctorate--law degree--not that it has gotten him anything other than hideous debt) and that I was smarter than most (and I am...I'm a Jeopardy champ, for pity's sake) and that our love story was more powerful than most (and it is...I met him when he was married in 94, we remet by happenstance when he was divorced in 2000, and to hear us tell it, it was the rejoining of star-crossed lovers) so much so that....I really believed, I guess, still, somewhere deep within me, that we would somehow work all of this craziness out still and still end up together.
This was not, by the way, my conscious desire for at least the last year that I have been in the new relationship. I still thought what I wanted most was to be free to be me and to be in this new relationship. But I kept hanging onto him, by talking to him every day, easing his way, whatever. I kept enabling, and caring, etc.
Somehow, hearing his drunken voice after I had just told him two days ago that I would give him a chance again (something I had never allowed myself to say to him before--I wanted him to think there was no hope so he would give up on me) hit it all home for me....he is NOT going to change, not anytime soon, and I am NOT that powerful. I wasn't the wake-up call he needed, the motivation he needed, the light in his life that would let him gravitate towards more light. I just was, and am, what I am...which is a confused, abused, woman who is letting this man manipulate me again, and again.
He has already told me he doesn't want to see our daughter unless I can tell him there is a hope for us in the future. Then fine. Don't see her. Makes my plans easier, not having to work around his.
He calls, but less than he did before. I had my daughter leave a message on his machine once, and called him back once and had her talk with him. If he wants more contact, he can let me know that. Until then, I don't care to know what he's doing. I'm afraid he has let it all go to **** again, but whatever, he's picked himself up from that before. Apparently, it really doesn't make a difference what I say or do. Before, I really believed that it did. Now, I get that it doesn't. I will still probably have some bare minimum contact with him because of our kid, but now I can hand the phone over to her and not involve myself in his life. Drunk, not drunk, job, no job, living at his sisters, or homeless, it was always going to be like this. And if I would have taken him back, "saved him" again, he'd be drunk, jobless, and abusive within weeks. I do believe that.
Before, I had such guilt because I believed I had a big part to play in why it all went wrong for him. Now, I know that I was just a small shack trying to do force with a Tsunami. Of course there's good in him. There's good in everyone. But I'm not a powerful enough force to make the good in him prevail. His addiction is too strong, and his addiction causes him to make awful choices and not give a **** about the consequences, and it seems to feed off of easy circumstances. My addiction is primarily him, and secondarily booze. I've been treating it, and will continue to do so, with these boards, therapy, and AA. I'm going to add Al-Anon to the mix on a more regular basis in the next few weeks. I'm cleaning up my side of the street. For now, I just don't answer his phone calls. It does feel better.
And I am still in my relationship. We date once a week. He's very supportive, and I try to be supportive of him too. I thank God for him because I do believe I would have never had the strength to leave for good otherwise. Maybe we'll end up together, maybe not. We've talked about a lot of this (some things he prefers not to know and I prefer not to tell him) but for now, we are both working on ourselves and are cautiously optimistic that at some time in the future we may both be in a place to fully commit ourselves. Until then, date night Friday is always nice.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
Well said mambo Queen!!!! excellent thread. Thank you.
I put it this way - and had it on the fridge forever it seems:
I will never mean more than booze.
Even if he quits-
I will never be number one.
those positions will always be a) booze or b)recovery.
AT THE SAME TIME:
HE can never be more important to me ... than Spirit.
HE can NEVER be more important to me ... than ME.
NOw: if I can practice acceptance and autonomy in both those perspectives -
there's a very good chance I can have a much healthier relationship.
the being important to ME... has been very hard to learn.
Somehow: three... as in NUMBER three... is the common ground. the key.
I put it this way - and had it on the fridge forever it seems:
I will never mean more than booze.
Even if he quits-
I will never be number one.
those positions will always be a) booze or b)recovery.
AT THE SAME TIME:
HE can never be more important to me ... than Spirit.
HE can NEVER be more important to me ... than ME.
NOw: if I can practice acceptance and autonomy in both those perspectives -
there's a very good chance I can have a much healthier relationship.
the being important to ME... has been very hard to learn.
Somehow: three... as in NUMBER three... is the common ground. the key.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Hugs Mambo! sometimes I am amazed about how they can go on without changing for so much time, months, years, but then I recall I myself was Codie Poster Girl for as long as I remember.... real change is slow. Keep up the inner work! its guaranteed good things will come....
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 132
Thanks for sharing Mambo, I can really relate to your story. I've been there many times.
It is so easy to have hope, I struggle with that every time my email inbox has a message with new "personal insights" that my ex has had..."I've done my 4th step now and I see all these things I did to you to make you feel unloved, etc", "The reason I checked out of the relationship and refused to talk to you was my sponsor made me do it", "the reason I'm such a pr*ck is that I was raised by a cold unfeeling mother".
The facts: his mother is a nice woman and a bit too empathetic and didn't call him on his bad behavior when he was a kid as they were mormon and thought god would straighten him out. His sister is a misogynist and enables his abusive behavior by telling him that the women he dates deserve to be called names, etc. He is a sex addict with no recovery plan and so ashamed he won't even look in the mirror. He's a disaster waiting to happen to me (again).
I had the gift of dating a recovering alcoholic after him...he is/was a once a week date too...both of us not really in a place to commit to anything...his recovery was very different but one thing is for certain he did not blame everyone else for the failure of his marriage and everything else. He has his own alcoholic behaviors, but blaming everyone else for who he is is not on the list, nor is it anywhere in the recovery literature.
Our side of the street is much more difficult to clean in some ways because it's not so obvious. Even thinking about him becomes like a drug for me, it's a way of dosing on the pain of the relationship and the disappointment that has plagued my own recovery.
Every revelation -- no matter how difficult -- is a gift. It's our HP revealing the truth for us.
I had a burning bush moment when I went on a trip with my alcoholic ex. We went to his family's home on the Baja coast -- a rustic little place with no electricity...we arrived late at night, lit the lantern to find our place to sleep, and found the entire house covered with the corpses of very large, very dead black spiders. They were everywhere.
I now look at this as my HP telling me that I need to turn on the lights and see what I'm sleeping with.
My point is that the truth is often there for us to see, and when we are ready, hopefully, we see it. The challenge after that is to hold on to what we know and use that to guide us. It's a constant struggle for me...sometimes it's as basic as telling myself that my relationship was an addiction and my boyfriend was my drink and that to contact him is to be deep in my disease. I don't even believe that half of the time but I know that I will be very sorry if I believe in him again. It's all I have to get me through, but it does get me through.
You've seen the hole in the street, you fell in this time, but next time, maybe you won't fall in. Or maybe you will again, but it will reinforce what you know.
Each misstep gets us closer to the right path.
I know that I was just a small shack trying to do force with a Tsunami. Of course there's good in him. There's good in everyone. But I'm not a powerful enough force to make the good in him prevail. His addiction is too strong, and his addiction causes him to make awful choices and not give a **** about the consequences, and it seems to feed off of easy circumstances.
The facts: his mother is a nice woman and a bit too empathetic and didn't call him on his bad behavior when he was a kid as they were mormon and thought god would straighten him out. His sister is a misogynist and enables his abusive behavior by telling him that the women he dates deserve to be called names, etc. He is a sex addict with no recovery plan and so ashamed he won't even look in the mirror. He's a disaster waiting to happen to me (again).
I had the gift of dating a recovering alcoholic after him...he is/was a once a week date too...both of us not really in a place to commit to anything...his recovery was very different but one thing is for certain he did not blame everyone else for the failure of his marriage and everything else. He has his own alcoholic behaviors, but blaming everyone else for who he is is not on the list, nor is it anywhere in the recovery literature.
Our side of the street is much more difficult to clean in some ways because it's not so obvious. Even thinking about him becomes like a drug for me, it's a way of dosing on the pain of the relationship and the disappointment that has plagued my own recovery.
Every revelation -- no matter how difficult -- is a gift. It's our HP revealing the truth for us.
I had a burning bush moment when I went on a trip with my alcoholic ex. We went to his family's home on the Baja coast -- a rustic little place with no electricity...we arrived late at night, lit the lantern to find our place to sleep, and found the entire house covered with the corpses of very large, very dead black spiders. They were everywhere.
I now look at this as my HP telling me that I need to turn on the lights and see what I'm sleeping with.
My point is that the truth is often there for us to see, and when we are ready, hopefully, we see it. The challenge after that is to hold on to what we know and use that to guide us. It's a constant struggle for me...sometimes it's as basic as telling myself that my relationship was an addiction and my boyfriend was my drink and that to contact him is to be deep in my disease. I don't even believe that half of the time but I know that I will be very sorry if I believe in him again. It's all I have to get me through, but it does get me through.
You've seen the hole in the street, you fell in this time, but next time, maybe you won't fall in. Or maybe you will again, but it will reinforce what you know.
Each misstep gets us closer to the right path.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 673
MamboQueen, that is one of the most honest posts I've ever read. It must have been cleansing and freeing to put that all in black and white for your support system of friends on SR to read. Bless you for being so transparent to us and to yourself. My guess is that, not only were those few days back on communication with your XAH pivotal, but that you'll start making great strides going forward. Thank you for sharing... I'm certain it helped LOTS of people!
Huggs,
Tigg
Huggs,
Tigg
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Originally Posted by Mambo Queen 
He has already told me he doesn't want to see our daughter unless I can tell him there is a hope for us in the future.
.. Sorry, an obvious hot button for me.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 237
Oh Jazzman, I definitely agree. Luckily for my dd, we had been separated so much since she was baby, and she has such a warm extended family, that I honestly don't think she misses him too much.
It's just one other thing though that makes me firmer in my resolve to not be with him again. What kind of man makes his relationship with his daughter about manipulating his ex into taking him back? Not one I want to be with.
It's just one other thing though that makes me firmer in my resolve to not be with him again. What kind of man makes his relationship with his daughter about manipulating his ex into taking him back? Not one I want to be with.
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