Question for Everyone...

Old 04-16-2010, 02:31 PM
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Question Question for Everyone...

I am sitting here today, setting those small goals for myself in order to be rid of my abusive ABF. I am doing ok. In good spirits - much better than yesterday but that mood made me run to Al-Anon for the very first time! (Yay me!)

But anyways, there are areas I struggle with the most and beat myself up about and these areas are what actually keep me around, keep me letting him back in, keep me codependent and trying to save him, keep me helping him.

Here are the things I am having the most horrible time with handling:

1. Guilt - I feel guilty anytime I smile, anytime I go to have fun, anytime I spend money. I know this is because I know he has nothing, he is homeless, no job, no money and it is eating me alive. That this is a sickness and I am just abandoning him to the streets.

2. Blame - I blame myself more than I wish I would. I blame myself for him being homeless because if I would have just left that night he would still have a roof over his head, he would still have food and money (because of me). I go back to the beginning of our relationship and to the end and I start to blame myself for it not working, for his drinking, for us fighting or him hitting me or saying mean things because I instigated it by yelling or screaming over a burn hole in the couch, or the dishes not being done when I would get off work... IF I would have shut my mouth, then none of this would have happened.

3. Anger - I am one angry, bitter person. If we do try to talk so he can get his things or whatever, I can't help but to be mean, I can't help but to say things - comments - about his drinking or calling him "the drunk" But then I feel guilty AGAIN

So, I know in time, if I continue to go to Al-Anon and I continue to get help, these will go away but these are SO hard to deal with right now.

So my question: Have any of you had any emotions when you left your ABH, AGF, AH, AW that were just so overwhelming to you that they would run you? or were you just fed up and left?
Have any of you have the guilt that I have for them losing EVERYTHING once you left them? (this is the one I am not controlling well)

I guess I just need to hear some other stories so I know that my feelings are normal and I am not alone.

Thanks in advance for sharing!
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:44 PM
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If we didn't have irrational guilt we probably wouldn't be codies.

I just try to stay focus on the present and stay in the now. I keep busy taking baby steps towards my goals. If I remain focused on my goals and moving forward, it helps me separate myself from my irrational feelings and it takes away their power over me.

You are not responsible for him. He's a grown man. He's not a baby. You are responsible for you. That's a huge responsibility. Don't take it lightly.

If you don't treat yourself as a precious person who deserves love and respect, no one else will either.
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Old 04-16-2010, 02:56 PM
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He's miserable because of his behavior and his choices, not because you are smiling or having fun. You could be miserable with him, but that would only be two people being miserable instead of one.

The alcoholics I have known, including my XAH, have been pretty resourceful and have managed to survive without any help at all from me. Who'da thought.

It's perfectly normal to have emotions, and sorry to say, they don't just "go away." But, with recovery, I have learned that 1) feeling them won't kill me, 2) I don't have to act on them, and 3) they often have nothing to do with reality. Oh, and they pass. My favorite tool for dealing with unpleasant emotions is to visualize yourself on a beach with the waves rolling in. Think of the emotion as a big wave. It feels as though you are being swept away by it, and sometimes it even knocks you off your feet. But, if you hold steady, it will roll on by.

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Old 04-16-2010, 03:02 PM
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Give yourself some time, love and tenderness, mishaco. All of these emotions are common to most of us who've gone through this. Doesn't make them easy to deal with, but please know that you are not alone in this.

It takes some time to get used to this new way of thinking. For the first few days of cutting my abusive/cheating X loose, I felt so guilty I just wanted to bury my head under the pillow all day. It really does fade if you give it some time.

You're breaking a habit....like a drug habit. In fact, lots of us here talk about being as addicted to THEM as they are to their drug of choice.

And just like a drug, the first few days are rough.

Stay busy. Get out in the fresh air and maybe even get some exercise. Take good care of yourself -- do things you LOVE doing. Be around healthy people you love, and who love you. Read lots of helpful stuff (get a copy of Codependent No More out of the library or buy it....really a huge huge eye-opener). Go to more meetings, as often as you need to. Think about finding a counselor you can talk to....I can't even begin to tell you how much better that made me feel.

He will be fine - or he won't -- but it's his choice and his right to live the way he wants.

And your right to live without abuse.

Sad that he's made these choices, but he has the power to turn his life around any time he wants to. There are tons of resources for people who want to get better. It's not up to you to save him. You tried that already, remember? And what did it get you? (almost dead)

Focus on you, and on the few decades of precious life we have to spend Here. What do you want to do with your time here? Who do you want to be?

Hugs,
GL
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:12 PM
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I remember the early days of my recovery, when I was still so enmeshed with him and our horribly dysfunctional relationship that I honestly couldn't have told you where he stopped and I started. I knew we were toxic together and I had to get away from the relationship in order to survive, but I carried incredible life/breath sucking guilt from all of it.

I started going to Al Anon, and to some individual counseling. It was one of my favorite Al Anon friends who talked me thru some of my self-defeating thoughts. She asked me if I really thought I was so powerful as to keep him away from his job, to stop him from eating, to affect his reckless driving etc. etc. She had to remind me many times that he was a 40 yr old man and was perfectly capable of being responsible for his own actions, his own choices and his own decisions, and his own consequences no matter what he was telling me.

And, after awhile, I realized she was right. It was an incredible "aha" moment when I finally allowed him to be him and decided to take full responsibility for my own self.

People who haven't been thru this cannot comprehend what that means. It's a powerful thing! And it happens little by slow, one day at a time, when we finally peek out of the darkness and creep towards the light.
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:14 PM
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Hi mishaco1! Welcome to SR.

Yup, had feelings that "ran" me. Yup, the guilt. You are definitely not alone.

I first recognized my feelings about my exA (recently an ex--just over a week ago) "running" me when things were back-and-forth, up-and-down, some sort of wild rollercoaster ride. I was exhausted, and I suddenly realized that what I thought would "make me feel better" was to call. And it did, for all of about 20 minutes...then the yucky, uncomfy feelings were right back...the emotions about the history of the relationship, the inconsistencies in the latest communications, etc. YUCK. "The fix" of making contact didn't last nearly as long as my pain did. Ouch.

My emotions were completely "running the show" at that point. My emotional presence (or lack of it) with my kids; keeping up on my household chores, bills, etc.; basically EVERYTHING was affected based on my emotions. Geez, if I could have just gotten "fed up and left" it would have seemed so easy...but it wasn't.

After breaking up I have often revisited my conversations, my wording of what I said, the ways I chose to do things, blah, blah, blah. My head knows that it wouldn't have made one bit of difference what I did or didn't do: it would never be enough, good enough, have tried hard enough, etc. to meet my ex's expectations. It's crazy-making.

I'm glad you went to Alanon, it has been my anchor (along with this site and my sponsor) during the most difficult times. My ex will encourage me to feel guilty with the blame that comes my way if I'm listening, but I'm not...we've gone no contact. I don't check FB or any other place online where we might "bump into" each other. I had a friend who gave me a FB update earlier this week, and I've asked her to please let that be the last update she gives me. Part of me is really interested in knowing the updates, but the wiser, healthier part of myself knows that the information just encourages me to go into a tailspin over things I have no control over. No need to know about them, then!

I've been angry at different times, and the only really good thing I can say about anger is that it moved me to take an action that I needed to take--namely, to LEAVE the relationship. I'm not overall angry at this point (though I have moments), but I'm very in touch with my hurt, which I can work to heal with the supports and tools I've gained through my recovery from codependency. I have work to do, but it feels like I can handle it now and truly achieve the life I want to have. That doesn't mean I don't have my rough moments and days, but the overall picture looks MUCH better than when I was with my ex.

If your ABF has hit you, that is abusive, and emotional abuse kinda goes with the territory of alcoholism. I was emotionally abused in more than this past relationship, and after 22 years and 3 consecutive relationships I'm taking time off to "date" ME. I'm finding out I'm kinda cool to hang out with, and I'm quite certain you are, too.

Hang in there, and keep posting.
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Old 04-16-2010, 06:03 PM
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This can be a painful part of the recovery process. Looking within. Looking inside my head and heart and taking a personal inventory of myself. It's not really painful, but uncomfortable. I have been preoccupied with looking at my A and the alcoholic behavior. It became my obssession. So I am stepping into foreign territory by looking within instead of looking without.

In recovery, I have a toolbelt of recovery tools. Things like: Alanon slogans (this too will pass, Live and let Live, Let go and let HP, etc), serenity prayer, phone numbers, SR, self-help books, and lots of post-it notes!

Before recovery, my toolbelt had supplies for putting out forest fires from active alcoholism. Things like: checkbook to cover debt, credit card to cover more unexpected expenses, dustpan, fire extinguisher and a pack of huggies (thank you GiveLove for those last 3).

There are 3 basic steps to all recovery. Three A's. Awareness, Acceptance & Action.

You are currently becoming aware of your feelings. There are lots of new emotions and some old faithful ones (anger, resentment).

Then comes acceptance. This is me. This is where I am at. This I am.

Next comes action. Lots of changes can be made, but they all begin with one small step, followed by another small step, and on we go.

I second, third or 99th, recommend reading Codependent No More by Melody Beattie. We are currently doing an online book study, Chapter by Chapter. You can follow along by pulling up the older threads.

One of the feelings we will all have, throughout our life, is loss. Relationships, objects, people and pets come and go in our lives. Each loss brings about grief. Some minor losses like a missing earring can still bring about grief. There is a recovery model that describes the 5 stages of grief. Anger is one of them. If you wish to read a bit more about the 5 stages of grief as described in Codependent No More, here is the link from our discussion of that chapter:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2559627
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Old 04-16-2010, 06:22 PM
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You asked this:
Have any of you have the guilt that I have for them losing EVERYTHING once you left them? (this is the one I am not controlling well)

I was with my A a little longer than you were with yours. I left. When I left, I took everything with me: children, pets, furniture, a car, dishes, etc. I left him with our bed linens, air mattress, big screen tv, my suv, an old truck, two bean bag chairs, a few dishes, the house and the coffee maker. He lost the house later.

But I did not feel guilty. He chose alcohol over the family. He chose alcohol over the marriage. His choices = his consequences.

I tried everything during our marriage to get him to understand that I could not put up with his unacceptable behavior. I was sure I could change him. He never believed I would leave him. He even had arranged things so that I financially would not leave him (house in his name, downpayment from me), my suv in his name, secretive funds. He figured wrong. I walked away from the alcoholism.

I did not feel guilty leaving an adult man to do his own laundry, cook his own meals, clean his own house, pay his own bills and live his own life.

There is a positive side to my story. My AXH did get sober a week after I filed the divorce. He has been sober a year now. Still doing his own laundry, cooking his own meals, (keeping his side of the street clean) and I am taking care of me.
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Old 04-16-2010, 07:14 PM
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I've with GiveLove... my STBXAH was like a drug to me. So wonderful at first, the "high" was seductive. When things started going bad, I convinced myself that they would get better, and that wonderful, loving, caring, gentleman to whom I was married would return, but it just kept getting worse until I was in serious danger of losing my life to this AH-drug. For me, it's taken months to get over the worst part of it. But OHHHH is it worth making it through to the happy, joyful, smiling side and being almost completely rid of the pain.

Congratulations to Posie changing STBXAH to XAH!!! I have a feeling that when I can type XAH on this forum, I'll be over a significant hump.

I hope you've received the comfort, Mishac, that these posts are giving to you! We've all been where you are. You are NOT alone, and you WILL get through this!

Hugs!
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:17 PM
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All I have to say is I thank God for every single one of you. For posting, for caring, for the encouragement! I have not felt hope is SO long. I started to lose my faith (and I even used to teach Sunday school for 10 years!), I started to think I was better off dead or he was better off dead, that there was no way out of this. That this is what was chosen for me and I had to accept that.

But I wasn't ready to accept that. I am NOT ready to accept that.

And it is comfort to know I am not alone and so many of you had the courage and strength to step away from your feelings and think about what is best for you (and the kids).

I went to visit a friend of mine tonight that I have not seen in a while - a best friend. She explained to me why she distanced herself from me. Not that she was disappointed in me or that she didn't care - she didn't understand and she didn't want to feel the pain when he eventually killed me.

That hit me hard. The messed up part about it - I came here, to my home and I stared at my phone. I wanted to call him. I wanted to text him. "WTF is wrong with me?" I thought and then I signed onto my computer and before facebook, before my email, before ANYTHING - I came here. I thought I would see if there were any responses to my posts. And I read... And I didn't text and I didn't call and I still haven't been on Facebook because I am responding to you!!

SO this is my thank you!

I am getting up bright and early and attending that Al-Anon meeting I said I would attend in my other post.

All I know is I am ready to save my life and you guys and Al-Anon (answer to my prayers!!), are helping me push forward to do so.

Tonight I would have relapsed... I came here and I didn't! I know I can do this!!
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Old 04-16-2010, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Pelican View Post
This can be a painful part of the recovery process. Looking within. Looking inside my head and heart and taking a personal inventory of myself. It's not really painful, but uncomfortable. I have been preoccupied with looking at my A and the alcoholic behavior. It became my obssession. So I am stepping into foreign territory by looking within instead of looking without.

In recovery, I have a toolbelt of recovery tools. Things like: Alanon slogans (this too will pass, Live and let Live, Let go and let HP, etc), serenity prayer, phone numbers, SR, self-help books, and lots of post-it notes!

Before recovery, my toolbelt had supplies for putting out forest fires from active alcoholism. Things like: checkbook to cover debt, credit card to cover more unexpected expenses, dustpan, fire extinguisher and a pack of huggies (thank you GiveLove for those last 3).

There are 3 basic steps to all recovery. Three A's. Awareness, Acceptance & Action.

You are currently becoming aware of your feelings. There are lots of new emotions and some old faithful ones (anger, resentment).

Then comes acceptance. This is me. This is where I am at. This I am.

Next comes action. Lots of changes can be made, but they all begin with one small step, followed by another small step, and on we go.

I second, third or 99th, recommend reading Codependent No More by Melody Beattie. We are currently doing an online book study, Chapter by Chapter. You can follow along by pulling up the older threads.

One of the feelings we will all have, throughout our life, is loss. Relationships, objects, people and pets come and go in our lives. Each loss brings about grief. Some minor losses like a missing earring can still bring about grief. There is a recovery model that describes the 5 stages of grief. Anger is one of them. If you wish to read a bit more about the 5 stages of grief as described in Codependent No More, here is the link from our discussion of that chapter:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2559627
Pelican - you are truly a Godsend. Thank you for all of the links and all of the posts. You are greatly appreciated! I am going to purchase this book this weekend!!

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Old 04-16-2010, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mishaco1 View Post
I wanted to text him. "WTF is wrong with me?"
Dear mishaco. I am so glad you did not ask him that question. One of the most painful truths of my marriage is that I learned that only I could answer such questions about myself. Alcoholics will have a field day with answering that question. Imagine all the blameshifting....

Instead you came here and tried to answer that question yourselves. That is your emotional muscle that you are starting to exercise.

Keep on coming back. Post a lot and read a lot. We care.


.
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:58 AM
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I've been thinking a lot about guilt lately. It has to be the most useless of emotions. It doesn't help the person feeling it (unless it moves them to action), and the person who is the object of the guilt doesn't benefit from it.

It is also a tool used by my RAH, even today. It is a symptom of the illness, just like sneezing is a symptom of having a cold.

You are definitely not alone.
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Old 04-17-2010, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by mishaco1 View Post
1. Guilt - I feel guilty anytime I smile, anytime I go to have fun, anytime I spend money. I know this is because I know he has nothing, he is homeless, no job, no money and it is eating me alive. That this is a sickness and I am just abandoning him to the streets.
It is hard to jet off and away from them, leaving them in the dust so to speak.

If this man were a diabetic, yet he loved the dessert table, and refused to cut back on them, and every time he did he became ill, how would you feel about that? You'd be angry! You'd say "I know you have a sugar processing disease, yet you can do things to better manage them."

Right?

His disease, his choice how to manage it.

The blame (#2) ones goes along with this.

Glad you didn't have a "relapse". I have found that it's like a tape that keeps replaying - it keeps us stuck. We feel instant relief when we hear that song, but after it is done, well we're right back where we were. Have to break that "need".

Hope the sun shines soon for you.
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Old 04-17-2010, 05:25 AM
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I feel your pain and know Al Anon will lift your spirits up. I'm thinking of going more than once a week. Thank you to the others you have followed with replies. Reading, reading and reading helps center myself when emotions take over.
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Old 04-17-2010, 07:52 PM
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Something that may help you.. or help lots of women I seem to be reading about on this board and that is to look at the issue of physical abuse. There is never any excuse for that, including alcoholism. Hitting women is a symptom of a much bigger problem in him. I'm very troubled by some of the rationalizing by the victims that happens due to the alcoholism. In other words, not all alcoholics abuse women physically so please take a good look at that dynamic and get help. Alanon may help you deal with the codependence issues but consider one to one therapy for why you are so conflicted about this guy.

It is never ok to hit a woman.
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:28 PM
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Mishac dear... I felt the "better off dead" feelings so much, and really only stopped feeling that way a couple of weeks ago. My turning point was when I knew in my heart what my head already knew, and that was that my STBXAH is not my dream come true, more like a nightmare with a potentially bad ending.

Some of the things that helped me survive that several months of thinking I was better off dead were (not necessarily in this order): Trust in God when I remembered to think of Him, DV counseling, prescription antidepressants from my doc, dear friends, taking walks with my doggie, and going to work every day. Other people find exercise, shopping, hot baths, cooking, things like that to be helpful. You WILL get through this, my dear. Truly you will!
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Old 04-17-2010, 10:47 PM
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Hello Everyone!

Thanks again for all of the replies. Just wanted to reiterate that I am getting the counseling and help for the DV issue. I, sadly, struggle more with the alcoholism aspect of it. My therapist agrees.

I went to another Al-Anon meeting and I loved it! I wanted to say to anybody in this situation who is new to it and struggling as much as I am, go to an Al-Anon meeting if you haven't! Go to several. I was so scared to go, I have been putting it off for years and now I am SO glad I went.

Today has been a little rough. I didn't sleep well, think I am getting sick and was struggling with the guilt and all the other above emotions. But, I have made it today. No contact, nothing. He has texted me, of course, but I didn't have the energy to deal with it so I really didn't have the urge to text back and I could tell he was drunk.

It's a struggle and it does suck to feel this way a lot of the time but I do have hope and for one more night, I have peace in my home and my mind because I know he is drunk but I don't have to deal with it. Thank God.

And I just keep reminding myself of how I feel now, knowing I do not have to deal with him drunk in my home and I need to remember this. It is only a matter of time before his phone will be shut off, his motel stay will run out and he will come a knockin. Not looking forward to that day one bit.

Sleep well all!

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Old 04-17-2010, 11:25 PM
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mischaco -

just a quick note so say WELL DONE!!!!

and to encourage you to keep up the good work!
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Old 04-17-2010, 11:38 PM
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I was with my A a little longer than you were with yours. I left. When I left, I took everything with me: children, pets, furniture, a car, dishes, etc. I left him with our bed linens, air mattress, big screen tv, my suv, an old truck, two bean bag chairs, a few dishes, the house and the coffee maker. He lost the house later.
I mean absolutely no disrespect to you, Pelican, but I will say that to me, when I was in the middle of the worries that our original poster has expressed, this wouldn't have been helpful to me because I would have thought....see, her ex has a house, TWO cars, a big screen TV, etc....she doesn't get how hard it is to turn your back on someone who will literally be a homeless man with not a dime to his name without my help. I'm not saying at all that you shouldn't have posted it, just that I understand very clearly that "I am just abandoning him to the streets" feeling posted by mishaco1.

So to you, my dear, I say...I felt that same crises you feel coming up when he is finally kicked out of the hotel he's staying in. Mine called incessantly, then finally went to a hospital (did you know they have to treat anyone who comes in, ability to pay or no? I didn't...but was pleased to discover it). He checked himself in with alcohol poisoning, was released a few hours later with the names and numbers of homeless shelters and free rehabs in our area. He went to a homeless shelter that night, and THAT was finally his wake-up call to check himself into the Salvation Army.

Now, this story doesn't have a happy ending, as he checked himself back out a few months later, and as far as I know, is back to drinking again....but my point is this. My biggest fear was imagining the father of my darling daughter (oh, did I mention, he is my ex-husband, and the father of my only child?) living under a bridge, panhandling for booze. He managed to find a way to avoid that. Yours will too. Trust. Wipe that worry from your mind. If he does get kicked out of the motel, text him the number of the closest Salvation Army. They'll put him up, put him to work, get him three squares, absolutely free of charge. If he doesn't do it, then that's absolutely on him, right? I'm not saying it will change him, but it sure as **** helped that nagging worry/misplaced guilt/abused woman **** that "he doesn't have a place to go" is a good enough reason to put up with being abused.
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