coffeedrinker

and wow, did it hurt.

gave him the update: saw my xabf on saturday and we left each other graciously and tenderly.

worried - ok, panicked - about him when i didn't hear from him and thought the worst and finally three days later looked him up - went to his house.

he seemed ok. said he was ok. hugged me. i said "will you come home with me?" and he said "i could do that". we had a nice (non-sexual) connection, falling asleep in each other's arms.


today:
therapist told me that i have shown this man as close to unconditional love as it gets. he said he has no doubt that my loving, nurturing support and presence in his life has helped him along, in many ways. probably has a lot to do with where he's at (in a good way) today.

he said, "but let's play this out. you are loving and nurturing him in the way that a person's mother is supposed to. let's say he continues to mature, and one day is actually where he should be at, where his emotional age matches his chronological age. and that's when he looks at you and says "i can't begin to thank you for everything you've done for me, how you always believed in me, and never left me, and i'm eternally grateful. i'm so much healthier now. i'm moving on."

he responds to me now, because of the way we relate to each other. he's in trouble, i come in and "rescue" him. i said "but i thought that as he continued to grow, we would continue to become closer. we would have a relationship with more respect and admiration for each other." therapist said "you would think." then he went on to explain that a young boy is nurtured by his mother. as he gets older, he moves away from the mother and identifies and clings to the father. when he develops further, he becomes a young man, and can form a healthy attachment to another woman. my addict never got that development. both his parents abandoned him emotionally. so now, i have taken the role of the mother (in a sense) and he needs to leave me in order to form an attachment to a man who loves him and whom he trusts. that is one of the roles of this therapist. so he can not really have a normal man/woman (adult intimacy) relationship with me.

i said "but i have told him many times that he needs to work on himself, he needs to continue to heal, and then and only then, can we come together in the right way. i've told him this." therapist said "but you show him otherwise."
"he not only has to change, but, christine, YOU HAVE TO CHANGE what you're doing." he brought up when i went over to see him a couple days ago. i said "i thought he was in trouble; i thought he needed me." then a light bulb went off over my head: "oohh.....i needed him". mr. therapist nodded his head.

wicked

i Christine,
I have been in this same place. I found out that I was just a replacement for his mother, a relationship which was the source of much turmoil for my ex-husband.
I was unable to love him unconditionally as you did with your ex, due to my own issues with my father.
Even though this realization is painful now, it will serve you well later.
I am sorry for the hurt.
Beth

BayAreaPhoenix

Wow Coffee! What a huge light bulb session!

This really hit some buttons for me too. It makes me wonder... Is this part of why it was just so dang hard to get out for me? Because I wasn't talking to my partner, to my friend, I was talking to someone who expected me to provide unconditional love, as a child does of their parent, and he couldn't see that - even a little. Is that why my XAH was so confused? Not that I could have done anything to make him understand (obviously) - but maybe this is it.

He still has his parents in his life, he is the youngest son of 4 children. Somehow, he never felt his parents were there for him, and yet it seemed to me they were always there for all their children - but who knows what happened when he was a child.

We had "issues" (to say the least), in many areas, especially physical intimacy. Reading this just makes me wonder... I used to tell him I have all the same body parts as any other woman, then I found all the porn - yet he wouldn't look at me, barely touch me - but if I wasn't his partner, but a "mother figure" - it's no wonder...

I'm rambling, it's all done and gone, but wow! Thanks for sharing! One more tool in the belt, and I can use all the tools I can get!

coffeedrinker

mine used porn for a lot of his adult life. you don't have to be intimate with a magazine or the tv screen, but can still get some physical needs met.

still processing all of this, but yeah, it makes so much sense. i know he is attracted to me (gets lost in my eyes, etc) but this is complicated stuff, right?

the thing that i now know i have to do - although i've been saying i need to let him go for awhile now - is actually, really do it!

still easing out. want to share this with him, but don't think i should.

If you love someone, let them go. If they come back....if they don't return to you, they never were.

86753091

Coffee,

I have to compliment you on your choice of therapist. This person is good! Compared to the usualy therapist you find dealing out that "well how does that make you feel?" hooey. Good for you and it looks like you're taking away pertinant advice.

You're gonna be fine. Just keep growing and try not to get in your own way.

I fully agree with the "let them go" statement you used. If you're growing at different paces and move apart, one day when/if he catches up - he may come back to your life. But why limit yourself in the meantime - go out and enjoy the world.

I'm glad for him that he has an equally good therapist.

CB

newlife24

I hate to say this, but Ive read alot of forums and it seems in relationships sometimes, when you stick it out with them, the moment they get healthy they leave!
It would be heartbreaking to have that feeling. I would rather have the upper hand.
It really begs the question~ who is taking care of who?
My ex was a momma's boy, which, after addiction, left little room for me.
But it WAS like I was his mom. I fell into it because I raised my brothers and sister.
Now that you say this, maybe that's what he wanted all along. Another female figure to take care of him. Like a lost puppy needs a home. That's honestly why I never moved in with him. I knew he would want me to do everything for him and Im just not that girl.
Furthermore, he had the mental age of 16 (the time when he started smoking). I gave him direction and guidance.......which doesnt need to be my role in a relationship. They should ALREADY be on the right path!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This has been more than eye opening for me. Thank you so much!

coffeedrinker

this therapy appt. is - sadly - the biggest factor in keeping me committed to not going back to him. if this theory is true -- and i believe it is -- then i could NEVER have the adult relationship i so longed for. only if he really make huge progress that is. and he may - his therapist does believe that it's possible. but it will take a very long time, and then there's that "if he gets there, the dynamic shift with us would cause him to not have that attraction to me. we'd both be different people." whenever i think about this, it really causes me pain.

Impurrfect

(((Coffee))) - I'm sorry. I know this hurts. It's so hard when you want something to work out, so very much, and you think "if only this would happen" or "if only he would..." and you go through scenarios in your head but now you have this knowledge and you just know...the chances of it working out are really, really slim.

I truly loved my last XABF (yeah, I had 3), but I knew he had so many years of addiction that even if he went full steam ahead into recovery, I would never fully trust him. Even if he were to do "good" for 10 years, I would still not fully trust him. Knowing that there was absolutely nothing he could do to earn my trust, and therefore there was no way we could ever work things out broke my heart.

I didn't have nearly the history you have, so I can imagine your pain is so much worse. I wish I could say something to make you feel better, but I know this is something you're just going to have to walk through. Just know that we are here for you, and I am sending you a gazillion hugs and prayers!

Amy

Satya

What your therapist says makes sense.

xabf has admitted he is attracted to motherly women. I have always been very motherly. I started babysitting at 10, etc. It is sad to say this, but once I had my son, ex had some competition. He started cheating on me soon after I became pregnant. And, once I got pregnant with my second he quickly found himself another girlfriend to mother him. I can't compare to her. She is working on her career and has a decent income, so she can afford to take care of him. I am a single mom on food stamps, with two young kids to take care of. The icing on the cake for him is that she can't get pregnant!

Thanks for you post. This is the first time I realized the connection between his pattern of cheating, and me getting pregnant and having a child. It makes so much sense now. His mother was an addict and he was raised by his father, so again, it fits.

It sucks big time. I am feeling sad right there with you, Coffee.

May these realizations propel us to move on and grow in our own lives. May we find contentment within. May we lead fulfilling lives, no matter what others are doing or not doing.

My favorite quote:

“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.”
~Rumi~

86753091

Hi Coffee,

I think your therapist is making perfect sense in a Freudian sort of way. That may be the style of therapy he specializes in. There are other schools of thought.

On a much simpler level - how do you see your future with the ABF? As the two of you continue to grow at different paces, what makes you think he will ever come to be the person you desire. If he becomes "whole", but because your pace has excelled you at a different speed you may have have become "fabulous". There's just no telling where the two of you will end up and if you'll ever be on the same page at the same time.

Personally, I am a complex, funny, intelligent woman and I require and equally fabulous man. (my screen saver says so!)


Is he meeting your emotional needs?

Is a Freudian style therapist the type you want assiting the two of you?

You're moving in a good direction.

cb

86753091

afterthoughts,

it probably doesn't matter what style of therapy a therapist practices. he's brought you to realizations that you agree with and offered you a cognitive path to make the changes you would like to see in yourself.

it's really fortunate that your addicted signifigant other is equally open to this person and you're able to experience it together.

cb

Ann

I think that therapy, when done well, isn't about what the therapist thinks or suggests, it's about them helping us get a better perspective, clearer vision and uncluttered thoughts...so we can accept what is and decide in a healthy way what is to be in the future.

It's about teaching us to take care of ourselves, and about healing from old wounds. And possibly, it's about finding closure and good endings so that when the time is right we are ready for new beginnings.

It takes a special therapist to see us through the searching, and I hope yours will help you keep your balance as you grow.

Hugs

coffeedrinker

"it's really fortunate that your addicted signifigant other is equally open to this person and you're able to experience it together."

i hope, for his sake, he continues with this therapist as well.
but, he's not my sig.other at the moment. and what i'm trying to make myself believe, is that he never will be. it's as you say, cb, the differences between our level of function remain distinct. as he improves, well, so do i. it would actually be easier if he weren't getting healthier; i could leave him way back there. but because i care about him, i don't really want that.

yes, ann, he continues to help me see what i otherwise would not be able to. it sucks and is exciting at the same time.

86753091

Coffee,
Now that you're finding a yourself with some freedom, are you going out into the world and looking around.? Growth can come, not only from reflection, but from just opening our eyes to the world around us. If your views are consumed with him, he is all you'll see.
cb

OceanSize

wow, this post is extremely helpful to me today.

thank you.

OceanSize

i'm trying to understand - have you been "broken up" but still hanging out? reason i ask is because i'm on the precipice of something new and different, on 6th day without contact.

i know he loves me.

if i do not contact him i believe eventually he will contact me. I am trying to understand what i want out of that contact, and what is real versus the fantasy.

i am falsely (possibly) inspired by the Lois Wilson story, bc i am hoping for a man who will come back and say "i want to get better"

i know he wants to get better, but i don't know that he cares whether or not i am in his life when it happens.

and lois's quote resonates with me "hearts understand what the mind cannot"

that's sort of how i'm feeling now, and how i feel in this group.

my second alanon meeting is tonight.

OceanSize

i very much relate to this. thank you.

Summerpeach

great thread Coffee, I can relate to this deeply.

sofacat

Must have been in my own "rut" and missed this post. When will I ever learn?

But I will repost something I said just yesterday.

"Florence Nightengale was NOT known for her love life now, was she?!"

I feel ya' lady.

It's hard not to do the one thing we know we're really good at.