Codependent No More Book Study: Chap. 15 - YES, YOU CAN THINK
Go ask the Multivax
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
Codependent No More Book Study: Chap. 15 - YES, YOU CAN THINK Link to Previous Chapters: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post2565144
Chapter 16 will go up Wed. Morning
Codependent No More:
How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself
How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself
By Melodie Beattie
Book Study
CHAPTER 15 - YES, YOU CAN THINK
CHAPTER 15 - YES, YOU CAN THINK
Chapter 16 will go up Wed. Morning
Go ask the Multivax
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,481
This was a short chapter!
Synopsis:
Codependents are locked in the horror of indecision, Melody Explains. We have a hard time trusting our minds when it comes to ourselves. Choices can paralyze us. The purpose of this chapter is to have us see that we're capable of making good, healthy decisions.
It's no wonder that we do not trust our brains. We've lived with lies, denial, chaos, stress low self-esteem, etc... We tend to think that if we make the wrong choice, they'll be no second chances. That the fate of the universe sits upon that one decision. Our minds are often tired from anxiety, worry, and obsession. We may have been taught at a very early age that we can't think for ourselves or had parents that made decisions for us. We may be in a house right now with people who directly or indirectly tell us we can't make good decisions.
In order to make healthy decisions, we'll need to really pay attention to our needs and wants. Something we're pro's at suppressing. We'll need to remember also that we are entitled to our opinions. We can evaluate our situations and behavior, see what it is we want and need, we can figure out what our problems are. Making decisions can be frustrating, but that is just part of the process. Our decisions don't need to be perfect or 100% right. We can make mistakes! It's not a big deal! It's simply part of living.
We're also allowed to change our minds, then change them back again if we want. We're allowed to go back and forth even. This is often normal and necessary. Melodie lists the following suggestions to help us gain confidence with our mental abilities:
(Paraphrased)
Activities (paraphrased):
1.) Who makes your decisions for you and how do you feel about it?
2.) Was there someone important to you who told you you're incapable of making decisions? Who was it?
3.) Do one thing daily to improve your mind. Read newspaper or magazine articles and form an opinion on the subject. Perhaps you'll want to take a risk and tell someone your opinion on that matter and have a healthy debate.
Synopsis:
Codependents are locked in the horror of indecision, Melody Explains. We have a hard time trusting our minds when it comes to ourselves. Choices can paralyze us. The purpose of this chapter is to have us see that we're capable of making good, healthy decisions.
It's no wonder that we do not trust our brains. We've lived with lies, denial, chaos, stress low self-esteem, etc... We tend to think that if we make the wrong choice, they'll be no second chances. That the fate of the universe sits upon that one decision. Our minds are often tired from anxiety, worry, and obsession. We may have been taught at a very early age that we can't think for ourselves or had parents that made decisions for us. We may be in a house right now with people who directly or indirectly tell us we can't make good decisions.
In order to make healthy decisions, we'll need to really pay attention to our needs and wants. Something we're pro's at suppressing. We'll need to remember also that we are entitled to our opinions. We can evaluate our situations and behavior, see what it is we want and need, we can figure out what our problems are. Making decisions can be frustrating, but that is just part of the process. Our decisions don't need to be perfect or 100% right. We can make mistakes! It's not a big deal! It's simply part of living.
We're also allowed to change our minds, then change them back again if we want. We're allowed to go back and forth even. This is often normal and necessary. Melodie lists the following suggestions to help us gain confidence with our mental abilities:
(Paraphrased)
- Treat our minds to some peace. Detach and get calm. Find some peace before considering an opinion.
- Ask god (or the Higher Power of your own understanding) to help us think. Ask for inspiration and guidance.
- Quit abusing our minds. Worry and Obsession are two examples of doing this.
- Feed Our Minds Data. Give our minds information so we can sort through the data and make informed decisions.
- Feed our minds happy and healthy thoughts. Take part in activities that lift the spirit. Read meditative literature everyday.
- Stretch our minds. Take an interest in the world. Documentaries, books. Live less in our own heads.
- Quit saying bad things about our minds. "I'm stupid" "I can't make right decsions". Replace with "I am strong and able"
- Use our minds. Make decisions. Formulate opinions and express yourself. Be creative. We need to think things through without obsessing. We will not let people make our choices for us. This will lead to being rescued and have us feeling like victims. We are nobody's victims. We will gain confidence. We will allow others to make their own decisions and in turn, we will all grow.
Activities (paraphrased):
1.) Who makes your decisions for you and how do you feel about it?
2.) Was there someone important to you who told you you're incapable of making decisions? Who was it?
3.) Do one thing daily to improve your mind. Read newspaper or magazine articles and form an opinion on the subject. Perhaps you'll want to take a risk and tell someone your opinion on that matter and have a healthy debate.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
This is SO me. I have SUCH a hard time making decisions sometimes!! My H and I have gotten mad at each other in the past because neither wanted to make a decision! 
What is weirder still, is when my H is trying to please me, he will be *more* codie and try to give me what I want (that I can't seem to admit to myself). So, for example, this last weekend, we were driving. I love to stop at historic and geologic signs. He likes to go go go. I want to please him, so I don't allow myself to ask to stop. When he is trying to please me, he will stop at the signs (even if I didn't ask). I love to read the signs and am even surprised at my little delight that he stops. Why would I be surprised? I KNOW I love to read them! (Being on the OTHER side of codependency, no wonder they don't want us to be in recovery!! It's NICE to have someone give up themselves to give you what YOU WANT! Scary!)
I notice the pre-sign saying there is a marker ahead. I might even read that aloud. You'd think I would have an internal dialogue that goes, "I want to stop, but he doesn't so I will just be quiet..." but it's not like that at all! I don't even KNOW I want to stop. It still doesn't *occur* to me that I WANT to stop when I read the sign aloud.
It's like I can't find the want in me. I don't recognize it. I am so trained to ignore my own wants, I don't recognize them.
So, I can try to remember with this ONE example, that I want to stop at signs on the road when I'm with my husband. But it happens all over my life. I also said on the trip, "I'm starting to feel hungry."
I didn't say, "Can we stop so I can get food out of the back of the truck?" But, my H was trying to please yesterday and pulled over and stopped. It wasn't until I was finishing up my sandwich on the tailgate that I REALIZED how hungry I was and how pleased I was he had stopped! LOL! Even though I had said I was hungry, it was like I was split - one side of me noticed and said that, but there wasn't a connect to the *DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR FEELING* or maybe like I SAID that, but it was like someone else said it. Like I didn't hear it or register it. Does that make sense? Like when someone says something, but you are only half listening and you disregard it because you didn't really hear it anyway? That's how I am with myself!
Upon reflection, I think I didn't want to slow him down so I minimized my want.
CRAZY that I can disconnect from MYSELF unbeknown to myself! It's nutty.
If I have to drag to consciousness my wants, individually and in every area of my life, I fear it will take me the rest of my life to do it! AHHHHHH!!!
So it is OBVIOUS that this must play a part in my whole relationship/do I want to stay or go/can I get my needs met issue with my H.
Luckily for me, he helped me see I wanted to read the road signs and eat. Too bad he can't help me see everything! God forbid him telling me to go find someone ELSE to have kids with IS him helping.
Ah hem.
I don't know that someone told me I couldn't make decisions. I don't know. I know my sister is VERY similar to me with decision making, so I didn't just manifest the issue independently.
Did I mention I love this book? It's like it was written *just* for me!
What is weirder still, is when my H is trying to please me, he will be *more* codie and try to give me what I want (that I can't seem to admit to myself). So, for example, this last weekend, we were driving. I love to stop at historic and geologic signs. He likes to go go go. I want to please him, so I don't allow myself to ask to stop. When he is trying to please me, he will stop at the signs (even if I didn't ask). I love to read the signs and am even surprised at my little delight that he stops. Why would I be surprised? I KNOW I love to read them! (Being on the OTHER side of codependency, no wonder they don't want us to be in recovery!! It's NICE to have someone give up themselves to give you what YOU WANT! Scary!)
I notice the pre-sign saying there is a marker ahead. I might even read that aloud. You'd think I would have an internal dialogue that goes, "I want to stop, but he doesn't so I will just be quiet..." but it's not like that at all! I don't even KNOW I want to stop. It still doesn't *occur* to me that I WANT to stop when I read the sign aloud.
It's like I can't find the want in me. I don't recognize it. I am so trained to ignore my own wants, I don't recognize them.
So, I can try to remember with this ONE example, that I want to stop at signs on the road when I'm with my husband. But it happens all over my life. I also said on the trip, "I'm starting to feel hungry."
I didn't say, "Can we stop so I can get food out of the back of the truck?" But, my H was trying to please yesterday and pulled over and stopped. It wasn't until I was finishing up my sandwich on the tailgate that I REALIZED how hungry I was and how pleased I was he had stopped! LOL! Even though I had said I was hungry, it was like I was split - one side of me noticed and said that, but there wasn't a connect to the *DO SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR FEELING* or maybe like I SAID that, but it was like someone else said it. Like I didn't hear it or register it. Does that make sense? Like when someone says something, but you are only half listening and you disregard it because you didn't really hear it anyway? That's how I am with myself!
Upon reflection, I think I didn't want to slow him down so I minimized my want.
CRAZY that I can disconnect from MYSELF unbeknown to myself! It's nutty.
If I have to drag to consciousness my wants, individually and in every area of my life, I fear it will take me the rest of my life to do it! AHHHHHH!!!
So it is OBVIOUS that this must play a part in my whole relationship/do I want to stay or go/can I get my needs met issue with my H.
Luckily for me, he helped me see I wanted to read the road signs and eat. Too bad he can't help me see everything! God forbid him telling me to go find someone ELSE to have kids with IS him helping.
Ah hem.
I don't know that someone told me I couldn't make decisions. I don't know. I know my sister is VERY similar to me with decision making, so I didn't just manifest the issue independently.
Did I mention I love this book? It's like it was written *just* for me!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
That's okay, Alizerin! I am getting a ton out of this!
So, I had a dream that really helped me understand this issue above.
What came to me was my husband can be an "emotional tyrant".
It's not all the time, mind you. But when he has been that way in the past, it has really rocked me. What I mean by that is frustrated, annoyed, sharp, short, tense, irritated, etc., but all *under* the surface.
Why? Generally he is reacting to my "issues" - time unaware, distract-able, inefficient, slow, procrastinate-y (when we are trying to accomplish something or get somewhere) and I have so much SHAME and SELF HATRED around those things - I mean, I have struggled with those things for as far back as I can remember. I swear, I didn't want to get dressed at 5 years old. It would make my mom annoyed and frustrated, but she would suppress all that.
I found a relationship to recreate that!
Or it can be about something he has issues around (all the stuff on the "do not talk about it" list).
And when he gets annoyed, I feel embarrassed and ashamed and unlovable and want to do anything to be loved again.
What's the worst is when he is THERE (I've also called it the "bad place"), he won't admit it (even to himself).
My trying to talk it out just makes it worse, so, I think, over time, I have gotten more and more...flinchy...to try to guess when he is going there, to please him, to be "enough" for him to not go there (because it is miserable to be around him when he's being so snotty and there is NOTHING to say or do to get him out of it until he's done).
So I give up myself. My self worth. My needs. My side of it.
Sometimes, when I flinch (emotionally or even physically), he will say, "Why do you act like I beat you? I don't beat you!" Then he feels like I make him feel like a bad person. This is especially during the times when he is aware and trying not to be that way. Of course, he feels like the cool headed way just IS the way he is and I judge him unfairly.
Then, of course, I feel guilty because I am reacting automatically (first strike against me) and making him feel bad about himself (second strike) for nothing (third strike).
He doesn't beat me, but I REACT like that because his "bad place" feels like an emotional beating and I automatically try to avoid it.
The truth is, sometimes I can be a time irresponsible, slow, inefficient, distract-able procrastinating kid.
Sometimes he responds by being an intolerant, impatient, disapproving, in-denial, non communicative snot.
Sometimes I respond by being a controlling, demanding, impatient, disapproving, distrusting "lawyer".
Sometimes he responds by being a pessimistic, fatalistic, sarcastic, grump.
LOL!
These are us at our worst and our worst sides are bumping up against one another. I think marriages end over people's deepest issues bumping up against each other.
I'm fairly sure step one is to attempt to LOVE myself WITH my issues.
Accept and love my junk.
Disallow myself beating myself up about being imperfect, as well as disallowing him to be a snot to me about it either.
Thanks for letting me share!
So, I had a dream that really helped me understand this issue above.
What came to me was my husband can be an "emotional tyrant".
It's not all the time, mind you. But when he has been that way in the past, it has really rocked me. What I mean by that is frustrated, annoyed, sharp, short, tense, irritated, etc., but all *under* the surface.
Why? Generally he is reacting to my "issues" - time unaware, distract-able, inefficient, slow, procrastinate-y (when we are trying to accomplish something or get somewhere) and I have so much SHAME and SELF HATRED around those things - I mean, I have struggled with those things for as far back as I can remember. I swear, I didn't want to get dressed at 5 years old. It would make my mom annoyed and frustrated, but she would suppress all that.
I found a relationship to recreate that!
Or it can be about something he has issues around (all the stuff on the "do not talk about it" list).
And when he gets annoyed, I feel embarrassed and ashamed and unlovable and want to do anything to be loved again.
What's the worst is when he is THERE (I've also called it the "bad place"), he won't admit it (even to himself).
My trying to talk it out just makes it worse, so, I think, over time, I have gotten more and more...flinchy...to try to guess when he is going there, to please him, to be "enough" for him to not go there (because it is miserable to be around him when he's being so snotty and there is NOTHING to say or do to get him out of it until he's done).
So I give up myself. My self worth. My needs. My side of it.
Sometimes, when I flinch (emotionally or even physically), he will say, "Why do you act like I beat you? I don't beat you!" Then he feels like I make him feel like a bad person. This is especially during the times when he is aware and trying not to be that way. Of course, he feels like the cool headed way just IS the way he is and I judge him unfairly.
Then, of course, I feel guilty because I am reacting automatically (first strike against me) and making him feel bad about himself (second strike) for nothing (third strike).
He doesn't beat me, but I REACT like that because his "bad place" feels like an emotional beating and I automatically try to avoid it.
The truth is, sometimes I can be a time irresponsible, slow, inefficient, distract-able procrastinating kid.
Sometimes he responds by being an intolerant, impatient, disapproving, in-denial, non communicative snot.
Sometimes I respond by being a controlling, demanding, impatient, disapproving, distrusting "lawyer".
Sometimes he responds by being a pessimistic, fatalistic, sarcastic, grump.
LOL!
These are us at our worst and our worst sides are bumping up against one another. I think marriages end over people's deepest issues bumping up against each other.
I'm fairly sure step one is to attempt to LOVE myself WITH my issues.
Accept and love my junk.
Disallow myself beating myself up about being imperfect, as well as disallowing him to be a snot to me about it either.
Thanks for letting me share!
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
It's a short but sweet chapter about my mind. I like the exercises that Melody offered (Alizerin posted these already). Things like
Quit abusing our minds because worry and obsession constitute mental abuse. Ouch!
Feed our Minds
Stretch our Minds
Use our Minds
For me, the instruction to quit abusing my mind has been the hardest to follow. I catch myself chasing down the worry train or jumping the tracks and following the obsession trail. I allow myself to wonder about someone else's behavior. I allow myself to wonder about their reactions. Other's behaviors and reactions are not within my control. Therefore, I should not send my mind off to worry and obsess over someone else's behaviors and reactions. Easier said than done.
I think I developed this habit of abusing my mind with worry when I thought I was being kind/considerate of other's feelings. I went overboard and thought I should anticipate their needs. It really blew out of proportion while living with an active alcoholic. I was always anticipating their needs in hopes of preventing the next binge. I didn't prevent, maybe postponed, the inevitable and ended up with mind mush from self-inflicted mental abuse!
Quit abusing our minds because worry and obsession constitute mental abuse. Ouch!
Feed our Minds
Stretch our Minds
Use our Minds
For me, the instruction to quit abusing my mind has been the hardest to follow. I catch myself chasing down the worry train or jumping the tracks and following the obsession trail. I allow myself to wonder about someone else's behavior. I allow myself to wonder about their reactions. Other's behaviors and reactions are not within my control. Therefore, I should not send my mind off to worry and obsess over someone else's behaviors and reactions. Easier said than done.
I think I developed this habit of abusing my mind with worry when I thought I was being kind/considerate of other's feelings. I went overboard and thought I should anticipate their needs. It really blew out of proportion while living with an active alcoholic. I was always anticipating their needs in hopes of preventing the next binge. I didn't prevent, maybe postponed, the inevitable and ended up with mind mush from self-inflicted mental abuse!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 194
bump*
I read this book a long time ago. Am going to re-read along with you as am having difficulty maintaining my serenity these days. Will set up some time today to read chap. 15 (& 16 so I can be on topic when that one comes up!)
Thanks Ali for this great service!
e
I read this book a long time ago. Am going to re-read along with you as am having difficulty maintaining my serenity these days. Will set up some time today to read chap. 15 (& 16 so I can be on topic when that one comes up!)
Thanks Ali for this great service!
e
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
Alizerin,
I want to participate more, but my perfectionism steps in and says, "what do you know about anything?"
sigh.....
when i was getting my teeth yesterday in detroit, i was still on the chapter about acceptance. i had already forgotten all i knew about acceptance.
alizerin, you know i think you are a superhero right?
finding peace i read every word, nodding along.
i will work harder.
i promise.
now, love me because i am an aries.
I want to participate more, but my perfectionism steps in and says, "what do you know about anything?"
sigh.....
when i was getting my teeth yesterday in detroit, i was still on the chapter about acceptance. i had already forgotten all i knew about acceptance.
alizerin, you know i think you are a superhero right?
finding peace i read every word, nodding along.
i will work harder.
i promise.
now, love me because i am an aries.
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