Elsie

So, XABF and I had talked A LOT. We kinda decided we wanted to work stuff out.
I asked him out to dinner to celebrate his 30th day of being sober.
As it turned out our son was pretty sick that day, so he came here and had take out and talked a little bit. Nothing too heavy, just chit chat and he left after a couple of hours.
The next day was a "life Celebration' for his Father (who passed away in Feb) at his sister's home. He was tkaing our son there, and asked me to please go and support him and our son. The last time he saw his Dad was when he and I went to go visit him, so out of respect for the whole family, I went to pay my respects.
Although the circumstances were not the best, it was nice to see his family again.
After we left we had a really good heart to heart talk in the car on the way back to my place. I thought things might actually be looking up here!

We saw each other a few more times. At the end of March he came here to look after his son and my 2 daughters so that my son and I could go to a concert.
The next morning, one thing led to another, and we had sex. It was a weak, lonley moment, but he saw it as something else. Immediately afterwards he started smiling and laughing and said "You know what this means? We're dating again!!" I told him we were not. He, of course, was upset. But then pretended like I didn't even say that.
After that point on he was like full speed ahead. He started talking about moving in here with me in August. He was looking to buy properties in Florida for our retirement.

I pulled way back in our communication, and when he questioned it I told him he was moving WAY TOO fast! He took this as a personal hit and rejection. I just wanted to slow it down, not talk about moving in, ya know? It was crazy!
From that point on we've been fighting back and forth. Last weekend he was saying odd things in texts. Such as "You'd better get f****ing prepared"
I said "What" and the next two texts followed "Get prepared"...."You'd better be prepared, this is your last warning"
I started panicking, not knowing what he was talking about. 5 mins later he shows up at my door with his daughter, all happy and smiling, wanting a hug, and to take us all out. I was less than impressed, but had to sort of "make nice" for the sake of all the kids.

I can't even recall what happened between then and now, it's all a blur, and to be honest it's not worth me sitting here trying to recall, because I just don't give a hoot.
But a few nights ago he was upset with me for never being available to answer texts etc. when he texts me. I have been telling him from DAY 1 of meeting him....I have kids, they are priority one.
Now I have a child WITH him, so 4 kids in total. I just don't have the free time to sit and text him all the time. Or answer an email. I'm busy a lot of the time! He doesn't get it. Has never gotten it.
Started saying to me that night that that's it...he's had enoug and that he deserves more than what I give him.
So...perfect...I used that opportunity to go NC since it seemed he was done with this crud too.
one day goes by...NC. Day 2...he texts me saying that I don't care about him because I didn't respond to his previous texts. That I never really cared, and that I never make time for him.
Then he starts getting mean and saying that I did not support him in any way when his Father died. THAT made me so angry. I felt so awful for him. It happened right after I broke up with him, so I was so torn about what to do, but I still replied to all of his emails to me. I expressed my sincerest condolences to him and his family. He had to fly to Florida for the funeral and the morning he left he ended up in hospital to have an abcess darined, I was going to drive to help him but he said no.
Considering he was leaving for Florida, what else could I do?
Now he's telling me I never supported him? I'm still, VERY angry by this.
Then he's asking me to mail his few items that I still have here, to him.
I told him to find someone who doesn't have kids so they can devote their life to him, he said all he ever wanted was a family, yada yada yada.
GAWD, I'm SO TIRED of it!
Then again this morning....texts asking if I'll mail him his stuff. I said No, I cannot afford the extra cost.
Then he says that all I had to do was be nice to him like he was to me or at least show interest, but that was even too hard for me.
I metioned he had hurt my feelings and he said that he can't hurt what's not there.
A few more snarky remarks back and forth, then asks if I want to go to counselling??
Umm, NO!
WTF!?

During the texts this morning I started tearing up and getting those anxiety chest pains a little bit again. It's almost like an automatic response to any sort of altercation with him now! Why do I continue (for over 3 years) to let this an hurt me? To let this man make me cry? To let him have this hold over me?

I don't think it's a codepenent thing...I'm not wanting to control him or change him I just keep getting sucked back in!!!
Is this "dry drunk" behaviour?
Oh, and he's not attending AA anymore...says it's just not for him. To my knowledge he hasn't drank anything and is still sober.

Too bad there's no 12 step program for just being a total @sshole and hurting those you care about!

He's a dry drunk isn't he? He's never going to change is he? He's sober, but still being hurtful when he feels hurt/threatened/rejected.
ARGH

tpen

Thank you for sharing. You tried and found out. Now you have to regain what you had - strength in yourself. Keep posting and pray.

Insulated

Too bad there's no 12 step program for just being a total @sshole and hurting those you care about!


If they did...I'd like to be a hot dog vendor, I'd be a millionaire! I laughed out loud when I read this.

Pelican

"A codependent person is one who has let another person's behavior affect him or her, and who is obsessed with controlling that person's behavior". by Melody Beattie

Did you allow his behavior to affect you?
Are you accepting his behavior as who he is?
Are you trying to get him to change his behavior?

Pelican

Re-read your own signature lines.

Change starts with self.

CatsPajamas

I've been known to play a few rounds of "It's over, it's over, c'mon over" before I was really done with a relationship. It was always a conflict between my heart and my head. In my head I knew it was over, I knew he wasn't going to change, I knew the relationship was toxic for me. But it was difficult to get my heart onboard with all that - in my heart and in my denial I really wanted to believe that maybe this was the time when he'd see all the pain he caused, all the wreckage he'd done, all the crazymaking and manipulation on his part (and on mine) and that we'd be able to work it out.

Truth is, that never happened. At least not for me.

My life got better when I was strong enough to set and maintain boundaries. I learned to mean what I say, say what I mean but not say it mean. I learned to follow thru with what I said. I lined up some recovery friends who acted as buffers for me - I would ask one of them to read an email or text msg from my exH to see if it was actually important to life or property, if not, just tell me it was quacking. I learned to send my responses the same way - I would send a text or email or make a call to a recovery friend first instead of reacting to something he said/wrote. That way I could vent my true feelings but not get sucked back into some meaningless volley of angry words.

It takes time to get healthier. It takes time to let go of someone we loved. It's a process... and some of us are quicker and better at it than others. Each goes at her own pace.

Don't beat yourself up over what you've done. Instead, try to look at it objectively and see what you did, what you learned, what you might try differently next time.

Hugs

Learn2Live

It does not matter what he is or isn't, dry drunk, whatever. It doesn't matter whether or not he is going to A.A. You are still focusing on the alcoholic and not enough on you IMO.

We tend to discount the alcoholic's feelings. We tend to just not listen, not pay attention, and not believe what they say anyway. The games they play as part of the sickness, fatigue us; they cry wolf all the time and we get sick of it. And then, when they really do try to share what they feel, we just don't want to hear. The dynamic between us is already SET IN STONE. We have become so accustomed to the hurt that we are defensive ALL the time. Even if they are being sincere. We blame and point our fingers and we lose sight of the fact that we are HALF of the equation. We think we are RIGHT and they are WRONG because THEY are the alcoholic and we are not. None of this is finger-pointing at you Elsie-It is the nature of the disease. We all do these things sooner or later.

Everyone has needs. He may be communicating to you his truth. But I don't think you know WHAT to believe anymore and you are defensive (rightly so).

IMO, you need to ask yourself, if he NEVER changes, if NOTHING EVER changes about this man for the rest of his life, do you want to be with him, YES or NO? When you have accepted what he cannot change (try as he might), and you have accepted whether or not you can live with that, you will stop doing this. Try to understand that HE doesn't have a hold over YOU, YOU have a hold over YOU. It takes courage to walk away when doing so is so very painful that it feels like your soul is being ripped out of you. But if you have decided that you will give no more to this man, you HAVE TO do it, for BOTH of your sakes. Leap and the net will appear.

wanting

It doesn't so much look like he's a dry drunk, as it looks like you both have an unhealthy communication pattern. I'd get to relationship counseling or go no contact, but what you've been doing seems to not be working.

Linkmeister

Elsie: Thank you for this thread-I really needed to read it this morning. In another thread, I talked about the olive branch I tried to extend to my EXABF and how what happened led me to finally, finally make the break, to go total no contact.

Elsie says: In my case, the ex came to my place, fixed my lawn mower, cut the grass and tidied up the yard. I made dinner and had the same weak moment you had. He made the same assumptions that all was well, that the huge fight we had was over and done with, that why I did what I did was just a blip on the radar. I should have reined him in, but I didn't. Guess I wasn't ready to make that final break.

Fast forward a couple of weeks to just before Easter. Another huge fight because he figured I wasn't showing him enough support as he went to his doctor to get a prescription for baclofen, which is supposed to reduce alcohol cravings. He figures he's cured if he takes this - like your ex, mine has shunned any 12 Step groups, counseling, etc, feels AA is too "cultish", the counseling not effective. In spite of this, I continue on with Al-Anon, which has helped me accept that I can't do anything about his decisions.

All I pointed out to him was to contact his pharmacist to see if this medication would interact with the other meds he was taking and if it would be covered by insurance. He quacked on about how I needed help to control my anger to show him more love and support for all I did for him. At this point, I told him that this was the final straw, that it was over, hung up on him and went no contact. I can't even begin to describe the insanity of the conversation - all I remember it being was one-sided with him doing all of the talking.

He came to where I work and tried to pull the sympathy thing on me-how, without me, he had no one....could we talk, how he was sorry for all of the things he had said and done........quack, quack, quack.......could we try couples counseling to address MY (?) issues in communication......maybe we could talk about it over Easter, again, the assumption we would be spending it together - I told him that an A-Anon friend had invited me for Easter and then, the sympathy quickly turned to anger, putting Al-Anon down,the fact that I reach out to people there, that I follow the 12 Steps. At that point, I walked away and went back to work.

A couple of days ago, he called me on my cell and asked if he could use my fax machine to fax off something for work - maybe we could go to dinner and talk some more. I did say yes and this is wher emore of those assumptions on his part surfaced. After this dinner, he was going to spend the night - after all, he had not done that for a long time and he could fax off this stuff the following morning.

At this point, I pulled way back, telling him that this was not going to happen, that he had assumed it was going to happen - he then rescinded his dinner invitation because he couldn't spend the night. At that point, the whole conversation went downhill - more anger, more accusations, more nastiness. Right then and there, I ended the conversation, telling him that it was well and truly over and to accept it. I blocked his phone, his emails, on IM and on FaceBook.

Elsie says: That's when I had my moment of clarity, realizing I could not blame alcohol on his behaviour this time around. That made me realize that he was a SOBER, self absorbed, controlling, manipulative jerk. Period. End of Story.

CatsPajamas says: This is me in a nutshell - I always had that feeling in my heart that if I pushed the envelope far enough, we could work things out. I knew that our relationship was on life support but I just could not let it go -denial, fear of being alone, not having the courage to walk away.

CatsPajamas says: I read and re-read Co-Dependent No More." My copy is in tatters from all of the reading. I spent lots of time reading and re-reading posts here. I bookmarked some to go back on. I went to lots of Al-Anon meetings, listened, shared, talked to friends there who gave me lots of love and support.

I learned slowly to set boundaries, to stick to them, hard as they may be for the ex and for me to accept. Once or twice I relented but was met with the same insane behaviour. When I made that final break, it felt good. It felt right. I had to let go.

Funny thing-I haven't been waking up every two hours, feeling like crap in the morning. No more knots in my stomach, no more headaches, no more feelings of anxiety. Now, when the phone rings (I blocked his #) I know it's either friends or family and don't have that feeling of dread, seeing his number.

I feel good, finally sticking 100% to my boundaries, to say what I mean, mean what I say and letting the ex live his life the way he sees fit and for me, to move on, hard as it is at times, but not wanting to let me be controlled by another's behaviour.

IamSaved

Bravo!!!

KeepPedaling

When I read your post, all I could think was, "Whoa....I'm so glad I'm not that anymore." I completely understand where you're at with this. I was there recently myself. The only way to make it stop, is to stop. You say you keep getting sucked in? I used to also. Then I started looking at that like, well, an alcoholic just keeps relapsing/drinking.

As a codependent, that's your drug right? The drama of being involved with the A? Playing the same record over and over and trying to make it not skip this time?

Just stop. Things will get better really fast, for you and for him. If you want to look at it in a "helping" way, he's a recovering alcoholic, he sure doesn't need this kind of emotional turmoil right now. But really, YOU don't need this kind of emotional turmoil, now or ever, right?

I recommend you stick with the NC, starting now.

::: hugs :::

FindingPeace1

"It's over, it's over, c'mon over"
Cats - that is too funny!

coffeedrinker

Right on, Learn