Newbie looking for input on a situation.

Old 03-31-2010, 10:54 AM
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Newbie looking for input on a situation.

Wow....where to start?

The good: My alcoholic is 30 days into her 90 in 90 tomorrow. She has been the picture perfect person in her recovery. Does not want to drink. Has dropped her friends that do. Has only thought a glass of wine would taste good once since she stopped. Back to exercising everyday. Eats healthy. This is the girl I met and fell in love with 8 months ago.

The bad: when she was drinking, she was depressed (for obvious reasons). Wanted to kill herself. Acted like an ass.

The situation: We met 8 months ago. Knew we were going to be something amazing together. About a month and a half into us dating (we were not exclusive yet), I found out she was sleeping with someone else tho she told me nothing was happening. This guy was an alcoholic. I was crushed. I told my ex (who was my best friend at the time). She was supportive. I didn't tell her she drank tho. On Thanksgiving, this girl calls me while she is drunk wanting to kill herself. Ex is there mad that I'm talking to her while my family is sitting in living room talking.

She is not a lifelong drinker. It all happened around this other guy. I backed off. She drank more due to my actions. We finally talked some and started seeing each other some. Her mom is stage 4 lung cancer and they are best friends. She laid off the drinking some, but not enough....I finally told her I had to leave. She stopped drinking. Made changes. Admitted she had a problem. Started going to AA. Is reading the book. She loves me and does not want to lose me. Her depression is COMPLETELY gone since she stopped drinking. Has a sponsor who is awesome!

I've been to open meetings. Al-anon meetings too. She does not have the cravings like the other people in the AA meetings. I don't have the issues that anyone else has in the Al-anon meetings. Which I consider to be all good! I think she got caught up in a whirlwind and finally realized the bad choices.

The problem: I have a 10 year old daughter. My ex is a Psych Nurse Practitioner. She thinks my girlfriend is an alcoholic of the highest degree. I agreed that to date her she would be in AA. She didn't start right away, and due to the agreement we had, my daughter is NOT allowed to have contact with her. She is telling me only after finishing her 90 in 90 AND 6 months of addiction counseling will she be able to....the 90 in 90 nor the 6 months of counseling were in our agreement. My daughter and my girlfriend have met....before the agreement was struck. They are amazing together!!

My question: is 6 months reasonable? I was thinking more like once she got her 90 day chip.

I truly love this woman. Never felt like this EVER. We are engaged now. The no contact thing is the only strain on our relationship. My girl understands, but wants the contact with my daughter and my daughter wants it as well. Summer is coming and we all want to do things together and this is really stopping us from making any plans.

I'm a fairly intelligent guy. I've always been able to get a good read on people. I know my girl is truly happy and does NOT want to drink. I'm 43 and I now know what love is supposed to be about and feel like!

We used an addiction specialist as a mediator (someone my ex works with) to create the agreement. My ex wanted me to talk to her initially to get input into finding out what being with an alcoholic is like. And my ex thought I was co-dependent. After 3 meetings, she thinks my girl is doing really well and that I don't have any co-dependency issues nor am I a fixer and that I should call if I need someone to talk to or bounce things off of. Just that I happen to be in love with someone now in recovery. We have another meeting next week. The mediator has been VERY fair. I'm looking for input. Good and bad. Reasons to ask for my request at her 90 day mark.

Thanks for reading my novel and appreciate this forum.

SX1106
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:12 AM
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Have you ever heard of the 'pink cloud?' It sounds to me like that is where your GF is at right now. It wears off. Recovery from alcoholism takes time.

My opinion? Six months to a year is a 'safer' amount of time to see if recovery will stick. Ultimately, though, people can relapse any time. Even years or decades later.

When making decisions that affect lives, I find it better to take my time. There is no hurry. If a relationship is meant to be, then it will be. Imagine how devastating it would be to rush things, only to find out that it was too soon. That would be much harder on a child than waiting a little while, wouldn't it?

L
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:26 AM
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If she is the love of your life and is going to be around for ever, what difference will an extra 6 months make? what's the rush? you can use those six months to do extra dad and daughter stuff, your new girlfriend can concentrate on her new non-drinking life, a little bit of strain in your otherwise perfect new relationship is surely a small price to pay to safeguard your 10-year old daughter, it's not like it's forever.

way to go on the Alanon, try reading co-dependent no more too.

Just that I happen to be in love with someone now in recovery.
who you have only been seeing for 8 months, who is very early in recovery, who during that time has threatened to kill herself, to you, whilst you were enjoying a family meal without her, crushed you by sleeping with another alcoholic, who you were sure from the off was someone you were going to be amazing together with, who drank alcoholically "due to" the actions of you and another guy, is a source of tension between you and your ex.

phew! I'm exhausted just reading it. welcome to the board; there's great info in the stickies up top.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:32 AM
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Hi and welcome!

Keep reading and posting. My ex boyfriend is an alcoholic. He quit drinking for two months. It was the best our relationship had ever been. It was a pink cloud. He relapsed and never looked back. I left.

Your ex should be commended for taking this stand to protect your child. Sometimes when we are on the outside looking in, we see far more than those in it.

Also, I realize you have been told there are no codependency issues in your relationship, but your post reads a bit different. Have you read "codependent no more" ?

Best if luck!
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:41 AM
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My kids didn't meet anyone new in my life before six months.

I tell ya -

I agree with your ex.
Parading a bunch of potential 'new parents' in front of children is a horrible thing to do to them. They get attached, then it doesn't work out .... it's divorce time all over again. And as a parent, our job (hiopefully is to STOP the passing down of the cycle of involving with A's or otherwise unhealthy personages.

I've seen it and seen it and it is NEVER pleasant. It's NEVER a 'mutual agreed' parting.
Not with a kid.
Even with a teenager. ESPECIALLY with a teenager.
my own grandaughter is having to cope with her step father
moving out and her own mother dating and bringing home men.
Even for dinner is an upset.

I just never could see any benefit from that.

My advice is to keep the two separate.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:52 AM
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I'd wait 6 months regardless of alcoholism. 6 months is a blip at the best of times and no more then the blink of an eye in recovery.

When we have kids interact with dating partners, they are dating them too. They have none of the emotional development or control to handle it.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:04 PM
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I thin I am a little confused, you did say you’ve only know her for 8 months right? And in this short time you have discovered she is an alcoholic but not a lifelong drinker….how do you know that, you’ve only know her for 8 months. In this short time she was sleeping with someone else, then blamed her excessive drinking on you for her own behavior. Then she did the dramatic Thanksgiving suicide threat which brought you back around to her, she managed to manipulate that one didn’t she.

Today she is only 30 days into a 90 day self proclaiming program, she’s not drank – that you know of, she’s not having crazing like the others people in AA, and you feel that her drinking was because she got all caught up in the whirlwind of life and then finally realized her bad choices.

You say the problem is, your 10 year old daughter mother is looking at for her child and wants all kinds of worded agreements that this woman must sign in order for her to give her permission for you to have your child around her, it that right? Your ex wants this woman to finish her 90 in 90 and 6 months of addiction counseling before you will be allowed to let your daughter around her???? Is that right? But you want it to be after 90 days and not have to wait until she completes addiction counseling, is that right? Your ex wants to use an addiction specialist as a mediator??? Someone your ex works with? Is that right?

Now you are engaged to this woman that you’ve only known for 8 months, a woman you’ve never felt this way EVER with (FANTASY LIKE RIGHT?)…………….and you don’t believe you have any codependency issues at all….is that right?

And all you want is input regarding the 90 day mark? Is that right?

What are you doing for you? What kind of therapy or counseling have you looked into for you?

I think if I were your ex wife, rather then make fairly new GF jump through hoops, I’d be looking at making you do the jumping first. No offense here SX1106 but I would strongly suggest for you to seek some alone therapy of your own, for you, just you, not her, not her addiction, not for the mediator…………….but for you and try to figure out what has made you fall so hard so fast for someone so not available to you for the kind of life you seek. There are no guarantees with alcoholics, relapse is part of the disease and you are attempting to build a life on a very shaky foundation. Learn as much about your codependency as you have her addiction, maybe it will balance things out a bit for you.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:49 PM
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I'm 43 and I now know what love is supposed to be about and feel like!
No, from everything you've written, it looks you don't.

Love is not a feeling you get after knowing someone for a month. Love is not sleeping around and blaming it on alcohol. Love is not blaming the alcohol use on the person you're sleeping around with. (That was an interesting switcheroo though.) Love is not ruining someone's Thanksgiving with dramatic suicide threats.

Love is an action, not a feeling. If this scenario is what you think love is, then you may want to consider therapy. Your ex-wife seems to be showing a lot more of what love is than your girlfriend is showing.

You know, ask us how many of us here stubbornly "knew" that our A was a good person and the love of our life? I'm raising my hand. I "fell in love" with my X after about a month and we got married 5 months later. I thought I'd finally found out what love is. We were happy for a couple of years, then the heavy drinking crept back in, and eventually, he had an affair and left.

It took all this for me to learn about what love really is and isn't. I've learned that people who fall in love too quickly have problems. I had problems and my X had problems.

I hope that you don't have to put your daughter through what my daughters have been through.
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:25 PM
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Wanting: 100% agree with you.

I met, dated, got engaged then married in the space of 9 weeks, and it was good for the most part. The last 5 were hard yards and when retirement struck, he retired me for the wine. His love for it was stronger than for me, and by then my love and respect was down to near empty.

How do you "know" someone in a few weeks? You don't...not really...and you found that out when you discovered a couple of little things in her baggage....she had alcohol issues, she had morality issues and she is a good manipulator.

I think your ex should be congratulated for her determination to shield your daughter from any possible hurt, and I do not mean deliberate harm from your new gf. I meant of learning to like her, then maybe see her go off the rails and perhaps disappear out of view.

When you can honestly say you are sure of this woman's regard for you, she has shown her dedication to recovery....then look at your child's involvement.

And yes, I see co-dependent in the rose coloured glasses, and know what they look like as I have worn them myself. Later on you find the roses have bugs on them, and it depends on what bugs as to whether you still want the rose or not.

Take it steady, take your time and take your own inventory before you introduce your daughter into your fairy story romance.

God bless
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:36 PM
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Thing is, your daughter does not have a choice about whether or not to come along on your ride. Your life is her life and she is an integral part of it.

Your daughter is number one. Children have the innate right to be number one in their parents lives. You set the example for her in what is acceptable or not acceptable in life. If you and your gf have a falling out, you can try to shield your daughter all you want, but she will be affected by it no matter what.

Your daughter's mother is looking out for her daughter. Growing up in an alcoholic household can seriously impair her emotional development and it sounds like her mother wants her in a stable environment - which again, all children deserve. It is their right.

Now is not the time to consider yourself or your gf first. Now is the time to recognize your daughter's needs and what may or may not hurt her and move forward. Your gf and you may not appreciate the 6-month rule but that rule would not have been put in place if things had not happened the way they did. There was a consequence for her actions and she should accept the consequences and realize your daughter's mother has a fair point.

You've known your gf a short time and seem to be willing to do whatever you can to make yourself a family. I understand that. But your daughter is part of the family and having a great time together does not a family make. If it was me, I would actually be curious to see whether or not this love is strong enough to survive a few months of this. If it is, then you can really sit back and tell yourself your gf was committed to this relationship.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:30 AM
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My xabf was sober for two years, then he relapsed, then he relapsed again, then he assured me he was committed to his recovery, and he relapsed again, said mean things, hurt my feelings a lot, I left him.

If she's so dramatic that she's threatening suicide, she's probably pretty manipulative and needs A LOT of counseling, and - not to be a negative Nelly - will probably relapse very soon.

Keep us posted though. It would be great to hear if things are working out and she goes to counseling and stays focused on her recovery.

Good luck. If I were you, I'd keep your kid out of it for at least a year, regardless of the alcoholism.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:37 AM
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Poor Super, I feel like we hazed him and he'll never come back! We're here to support you and give you our honest feedback Super! We're with you, not against you. It's so tough to go through what you're going through. You sound like someone with a really big heart and some big love for your new girl. Just be vewy cawful widdle wabbit!
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Old 04-01-2010, 12:50 PM
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I asked for the feedback....good or bad.

I've been around other alcoholics. Grandparents. Friends. All the reading I've done pegs my g-parents and friends to a "T". It misses most marks with her.

She gets her 30 day chip today. She actually quit way before, but she started counting from her first meeting. I didn't argue.

Someone had asked how I knew of her history. Talking to her mom, her friends, and two previous boyfriends. I know more about her life than anyone else that's been a part of it other than her.

I've been to a therapist that deals with addiction and is 25 years recovered. We have talked multiple times about me, this woman, me again and me some more. She is confident that I'm doing the right things but has made some suggestions which I have made changes in my life for.

I'm an ex-smoker. I'll never be a non-smoker again. Every once in awhile I smell one just the right way and I'd love to have one. But within 5 seconds the desire is gone and I'm back to where I was....realizing that smoking was hard on my body and glad I quit. My girl has seen the affect of alcohol on one of her friends that she kicked out of her life. She recognizes in how much of a better place she is and is thankful that she is no longer there. She is not a weak willed woman. It's easy to blame things on alcohol. I've seen friends do it. I've seen her do it. I really think she realizes how bad things were and that she is now where she wants to be. Time will tell, but if I had to place a bet, I'd bet on her.

It's not in my nature to let statistics dictate my actions. I started a business 17 years ago with no money and not one business class, yet I do well for myself and my employees. Had I listened to the stats, I should have been out of business within 3 years of starting. It's looking at the situation, listening to your gut and making a decision. I had dated someone else years ago that ended up being bi-polar. On her meds for 6 months, she was perfect. She got off of them and ended up showing me her addiction to alcohol. I walked away because I knew in my heart and my head that there was no way she would ever recover or be a good partner or stepmom. What's happening this time is totally different in both my heart and gut.

I'm going to step back some and see how things happen. How she continues on her path with love and support. She indeed has to do this on her own, and has to this point, but I have my boundaries set, my limits in place and have promised myself if she breaks them that I will indeed remove myself.

Thanks again everyone.

SX1106
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Old 04-01-2010, 01:41 PM
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So this is the second alcoholic you have been seriously involved with? That should tell you something about yourself. I hated the co- dependent label, but the common denominator was me in all my sick relationships.

I watched an episode of Intervention last night that broke my heart. The man had been in rehab before the intervention this time. His father and mother were both recovering alcoholics for 20 years. He went to a 90 day in patient treatment program. He said he had never felt better physically or mentally after 3 months sober. He looked great and happy with his partner. They do an update at the end. He relapsed several times after, then ended his life last August.

They all look and sound this way after a few weeks or months; however, all that glitters is not gold.

Also, the fact that you are adding a few extra days to her sober time speaks volumes in my opinion. I used to cover and justify and make it all sound better for my xabf too until I got very honest with myself and accepted the truth of the situation.

I hope you are right about your alcohic gf. I think all of us gave been in your shoes. If the all stuck to sobriety, none of us would be here.
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Old 04-01-2010, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by superx1106 View Post
It's not in my nature to let statistics dictate my actions. I started a business 17 years ago with no money and not one business class, yet I do well for myself and my employees. Had I listened to the stats, I should have been out of business within 3 years of starting. It's looking at the situation, listening to your gut and making a decision.
Something I've learned over the years is that different situations require different approaches. There is no one-size-fits-all way of doing things. 'Not in my nature' for me is something I tell myself when I don't want to consider a different way of doing things.

Taking a risk on starting a business, when you are young and childless, with relatively little to lose, is an appropriate choice. And one I admire, by the way.

It's an entirely different thing to take a risk on a relationship with an active alcoholic, and involving your young child in that relationship.

I don't believe anyone here (including me) is telling you not to give her a chance. Just that a big dose of caution is in order. What's the urgency?

L
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Old 04-01-2010, 04:32 PM
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Sorry, "active" alcoholic was the wrong choice of words. 30 days is a great beginning. But that's all it is--a start. The pink cloud will wear off, it always does. Then you will see how serious and committed to sobriety she is.

L
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Old 04-01-2010, 04:55 PM
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It's not in my nature to let statistics dictate my actions
I'm sorry but I chuckled at that one.

then LaaTeeDa wrote:
'Not in my nature' for me is something I tell myself when I don't want to consider a different way of doing things.

classic.

Super: Best of luck to ya - and feel free to come back if you want to.
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:08 PM
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This woman is newly, newly sober and is about to lose her Mother. Early sobriety is afwul hard (thirty days is great but she's barely out of the starting blocks). And if her Mom's her best friend, then she is processing a major, major life event.

I'm going to be your GF's advocate here for a moment. You have told her you'll leave if she doesn't stop - so she's stopped. For the relationship. Because it's what you need her to do/be to stay with her. That's a major life change - if she sticks with it, great - but if not then what? Being who she is right now is not enough and she has to deal with that as well as lose a parent.

You want to be with her. You know her better than anyone (after eight months). You want her to be involved with your daughter. You're amazing together.

It sounds like you've decided what this relationship "is" - and who you need her to be - before it has even really started. That's codependency.

On her part, is she maybe looking for a life preserver during a time when she's about to lose the most important person in her life? People will grab onto all manner of things when they're faced with a major loss. That's why folks who have been married decades up and remarry within months - it's not because they didn't love their spouse, it's because that hole is enormous and they're looking for someone to fill a part of it.

Good relationships start with a solid foundation. Trying to get to know someone while they're going through a major life event is hard. Even if she weren't an alcoholic, this woman might not be emotionally available in the coming months simply because of grief and loss. She's going to need every ounce of energy to deal with this - let alone work a program at the same time.

You seem to be going into this with a clear picture of what you need - I'm not sure you have a clear picture of where she's at and what the odds are that she can give you what you need as well as be there for herself right now.
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