Codependents....

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Old 03-31-2010, 07:07 AM
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Codependents....

So.. I started reading "codependent no more"... and I'm not far in at all.. but as I'm reading, I'm just asking, "how on earth do you become non-codependent? It's just WHO I am. I relate to every story mentioned.

Is there really such thing as recovering from co-dependency? What steps does one take? Any success/failure stories? Just curious...

Thanks
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:08 AM
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Awareness

Hi! Now you know, you are aware. It's a bit overwhelming at times. I do see progress, in my own recovery. There are alanon mtgs, codependant (coda) annonymous, etc. For support and fellowship. Book studies, therapy. And this place here(((SR))). As the veil of denial slips away we are here to share our ESH, with you. For me, working the steps and traditions, having a sponsor, and slowly changing, focusing on myself, not in a selfish way. I've learned to stop focusing on anything outside of my hula hoop. I'm not perfect, but I am progressively improving.
I used to do recovery mtgs in the 80's, then I had children, and marriage, and sadly stopped my recovery. I had knowledge, but thought that was enough. It wasn't. Now, I'm back into my recovery, and I can say in all honesty that, recovery is better.
I hope you give yourself a break and keep coming back!

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Old 03-31-2010, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Serenebynow View Post
Hi! Now you know, you are aware. It's a bit overwhelming at times. I do see progress, in my own recovery. There are alanon mtgs, codependant (coda) annonymous, etc. For support and fellowship. Book studies, therapy. And this place here(((SR))). As the veil of denial slips away we are here to share our ESH, with you. For me, working the steps and traditions, having a sponsor, and slowly changing, focusing on myself, not in a selfish way. I've learned to stop focusing on anything outside of my hula hoop. I'm not perfect, but I am progressively improving.
I used to do recovery mtgs in the 80's, then I had children, and marriage, and sadly stopped my recovery. I had knowledge, but thought that was enough. It wasn't. Now, I'm back into my recovery, and I can say in all honesty that, recovery is better.
I hope you give yourself a break and keep coming back!

Hello! What is ESH? See... this just feels/sounds weird to me. Recovery for codependency. I understand it's attributed to toxic behavior, thoughts, feelings, etc; just hard to grasp a recovery aspect of it.

I did go to al-anon recently - and I just don't feel like it's for me. I'm shy. I'm not religious. I didn't talk. Everyone explains their story, but I didn't see/hear feedback. I know one time proves to not be enough. Therapy would probably be great - been in and out of it for years. What other books have you read? What activities?

You say you have a sponsor - how does that work? You call them and tell them you're trying to take control of situations out of your reach, or what? I'm not trying to be rude - just trying to understand. Sadly, they're aren't any CODA meetings near by. I probably would attend that.

Thanks for your response! Hope this doesn't rub you the wrong way.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:51 AM
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Kinda? We talk, we help each other. She's been in recovery for 18 years, so most of my behaviors, well she's been there done that, so she lifts the veil of denial. But she's good, she doesn't do it to be mean, she exposes it, then share esh experience, strength and hope. At first she'd remind me of little things, like going to the hardware store for bread. I was trying to get mt abf to stop drinking and smoking because he had cancer. She would listen to me and share about how she tried to get her son off of Xanax. She used the illustration of talking to a bottle of pills or booze. We were both talking quacking but the person we were speaking to was an active addict/alcoholic. All they heard was quack quack quack, control. Who knows what they heard?
When I found her, she had just divorced her AH, 36 year marriage. She seemed to have and use her boundaries, I wanted that! She's also religious, I didn't want that. She doesn't insist that I believe like she does. She is gentle and kind, and my good good friend. I work my steps, and share with her and feel safe in doing so. Her ex was a cheater, and I still haven't met him, but boy if I do! Neither my sponsor nor I have all the answers, but we have tools, and we use them and it works.
I understand how alanon might not feel like a good fit. I certainly didn't feel comfortable there, in my twenties...I got over it, in my forties! The thing is I'm right where I need to be. Have you listened to any alanon speakers? I found some on I tunes, and more on xaspeakers. I enjoy hearing about recovery! AA, NA, all of them, try it, you'll see if you identify with any of them . I've stopped attending whiney control issues meetings. I've found new ones. I have my favorites, and some you couldn't pay me to go back to. That's my path, and now my friend you get to choose yours.
As for books, I have a little addictive tendency with them. I've got all the alanon books. I have a ton of self help books, I read too much. If there's a club( recovery club) near you, that's always a good place to get books. Also available through alanon afg website. You'll find lots of help once you begin looking.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:53 AM
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Jenny1232,

Recovery from codependency is asking you to give up everything you know to get something better you don’t yet understand.

It’s a process, a change of our thoughts. Learning what is healthy and what is not… after years of ingrained thinking it takes some hard work to change our ways. A dedication to ourselves, a real true want to change and a willingness to understand choices and learning healthier ways to cope with life………..much like the alcoholic needs all of those things in order to get sober.

Understanding my own ill behaviors of managing and attempting to control other peoples lives, I had to learn to respect them enough to allow them their own choices and to find their own paths in life even if that is not what I wanted for them, and……….without using any guilt, manipulation or control to get things the way I wished or wanted them to be.

I was very confused about love and obligation……..I learned that you do what ever you can for someone you love so that they have a good life. I learned that I was being the judge of what I perceived was “a good life” for them and it’s not MY place to judge how another person chooses to live their lives

I have also learned that change is a process, not an event and that recovery is a journey….not a destination.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:59 AM
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How do you become non-codependent?
Take a chance. Trust your gut. Set limits. Start small. Set a boundary for yourself and enforce it no matter what. See what happens. Have faith. Reach out for help when you need it.

Treat yourself the way you want others to treat you.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:01 AM
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Kinda? We talk, we help each other. She's been in recovery for 18 years, so most of my behaviors, well she's been there done that, so she lifts the veil of denial. But she's good, she doesn't do it to be mean, she exposes it, then share esh experience, strength and hope. At first she'd remind me of little things, like going to the hardware store for bread. I was trying to get mt abf to stop drinking and smoking because he had cancer. She would listen to me and share about how she tried to get her son off of Xanax. She used the illustration of talking to a bottle of pills or booze. We were both talking quacking but the person we were speaking to was an active addict/alcoholic. All they heard was quack quack quack, control. Who knows what they heard?
When I found her, she had just divorced her AH, 36 year marriage. She seemed to have and use her boundaries, I wanted that! She's also religious, I didn't want that. She doesn't insist that I believe like she does. She is gentle and kind, and my good good friend. I work my steps, and share with her and feel safe in doing so. Her ex was a cheater, and I still haven't met him, but boy if I do! Neither my sponsor nor I have all the answers, but we have tools, and we use them and it works.
I understand how alanon might not feel like a good fit. I certainly didn't feel comfortable there, in my twenties...I got over it, in my forties! The thing is I'm right where I need to be. Have you listened to any alanon speakers? I found some on I tunes, and more on xaspeakers. I enjoy hearing about recovery! AA, NA, all of them, try it, you'll see if you identify with any of them . I've stopped attending whiney control issues meetings. I've found new ones. I have my favorites, and some you couldn't pay me to go back to. That's my path, and now my friend you get to choose yours.
As for books, I have a little addictive tendency with them. I've got all the alanon books. I have a ton of self help books, I read too much. If there's a club( recovery club) near you, that's always a good place to get books. Also available through alanon afg website. You'll find lots of help once you begin looking.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:10 AM
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Isn't everyone a little codependent? I mean- everyone has traits of codependency in them, it's naturaly to want to help others and care for others and its natural and easy for people to forget about themselves.

I think everyone will have some characteristics in them to an extent, and it's not neccessarily a bad thing
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:52 AM
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yes, but if codependency issues are causing you to make unhealthy choices in your personal relationships, then it may be an issue. If your happiness and personal satisfaction is wrapped up in the choices of other people, then codependency may be an issue. If you are unable to set and enforce healthy personal boundaries about the kinds of behavior you are willing to accept in your life, codependency may be an issue. If you are unable to say NO and mean it, then codependency may be an issue.

And that's why people show up on this website. They don't come here because everything is hunky dory with their family members, spouses or significant others. They don't show up here because everything is great with their personal relationships.

They usually end up here because they are unhappy about something someone else is doing and their lives feel out of control because of their inability to control other people's actions.

That's codependency at it's core.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:57 AM
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Jenny, I went back to therapy and got to experience Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. I didn't go with that idea in mind but my therapist saw I was looking and ready to change my behavior. If I slip up these days, I know exactly why and what to do about it.

I go to Alanon 1-2 times a month, it's the icing on my cake
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:54 AM
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Back when, a million years ago, my best friend at the time was an alcoholic and more. He was on a tremendeous spiral downwards. The last time I saw him was in a middle of a blizzard in Chicago. I gave him my snow parka and walked away. Within a year he was dead on the streets- heroin OD.

While saddened I maintained respect and accepted that this was his choice and that I was powerless over him and the choices he made.

I thought I did not have a codependent bone in my body. Then my daughter discovered heroin and overnight I became a raging codepenedent. I found this forum while looking for ways to fix my daughter. Instead, I found that I needed to fix myself.

I continue to come to this forum almost daily, because it reinforces that I have responsibility for me and my own outcomes and that in itself is a full time job.
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Old 04-01-2010, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by atalose View Post
Jenny1232,

Understanding my own ill behaviors of managing and attempting to control other peoples lives, I had to learn to respect them enough to allow them their own choices and to find their own paths in life even if that is not what I wanted for them, and……….without using any guilt, manipulation or control to get things the way I wished or wanted them to be.

I learned that you do what ever you can for someone you love so that they have a good life. I learned that I was being the judge of what I perceived was “a good life” for them and it’s not MY place to judge how another person chooses to live their lives
Thank you everyone for your feedback. I'm about 50 pages in on "codependent no more" and I really enjoy it. It was a bit unsettling reading the characteristic, and I'm about 90% of them. I related to every single one except for the sexual aspects. It was kind of upseting to see what could lead to our behaviors, as far as how we're raised. It's one thing I've never overcome or settled. My life wasn't horrible - just wasnt normal. I was never allowed to express emotions/feelings.. and that's why I find it impossible to do in a healthy manner now. I just lash out of I don't get my way. I don't say the things I mean, or mean the things I say.

I want help - I do.

How do you accept the person you loves.. negative lifestyle? I constantly want to change them into what I percieve as worthy. I feel like if I cant, then they aren't good for me... Yet, I don't want to let go and lose them. How do you accept these behaviors?
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:45 AM
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Well there is no doubt in my mind that I'm codependent. I just don't know how to stop controlling others, and accept them as they are.

I think about it. I've got a best friend who uses drugs - but I love her. I don't judge her, or deem her unworthy. However, I nitpick EVERYTHING about my boyfriend. The things he eats, smoking, not wearing a seatbelt, EVERYTHING. I want constant control, and I'm not sure how NOT TOO. Besides just DOING rather than trying... I'm going to DO.

Do you just accept that person - or are they not right for you? I'm confused. Wouldn't I just want to change the next person? So many people say I'm uptight, too critical, need to let things go. I wish I could be more like them.. and just let things go.
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Old 04-01-2010, 09:07 AM
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I understand where you're coming from. When I first found out about my AH's issues, I thought, I'm strong, I can fix this... Well, fast forward eight years...It's worse than it was before. I was angry, resentful, frustrated...raging out of control all the time because the tighter I held on, the more he slipped through my fingers... See that's the thing, he's going to do what he's going to do...he's not a puppet. And truthfully, I wouldn't want someone to dictate my every move every day either, so I finally understand his increasing push-back on me. In fact, I think he escalates things every time I try to control the situation. There is dignity to being an adult and having the power to make your own choices. You can't let go of a control that you never truly had; but you can gain a control over your life and your responses to the things that go on around you. My AH has his own life to lead...to own, good bad, or indifferent. And for me right now, it's understanding why I think I have the right (regardless of whether I feel it's legitimate or not) to control his life.

Now, it's not all fairy tales and roses...I have good days and very bad ones... I'm still on step one... I read and meditate on it...I want it to really sink in on a foundational level before I move forward. I was to be strong enough to let go and not go insane... I'm not there yet, but I am working on it...Progress not perfection!!!
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Old 04-01-2010, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jenny1232 View Post
I just don't know how to stop controlling others, and accept them as they are.
If you're looking for a literal place to start, choose one of the things you nitpick your boyfriend about and decided not to do it for one day. When you wake up the next day, make that same decision again "Just for today".

It takes anywhere from 30-90 days to establish a new habit, if done every day. Somewhere during that period of time you will break the old habit, too.

Do you have personal boundaries for yourself? For example I won't subject myself to verbal/physical abuse and will remove myself from those situations. If it's in my home, one of us will have to leave immediately.

I have an acquaintance who is very health conscious. He won't subject himself to second hand smoke under any circumstances.

I have a rule (not boundary) about seat belts. If I'm a passenger I ask once if they forgot their seat belt and that's it. If I'm the driver we're not moving one inch until everyone's seat belt is fastened. Passengers in my vehicle are my moral/legal responsibility. I won't be able to live with myself if my passenger dies without a seat belt on. I don't want the legal/financial consequence on top of that, either.

It seems to go hand in hand that the more we focus on our own boundaries, the less we focus on others. I added a new boundary recently as a safeguard: I will not allow others to manipulate or control me
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Old 04-01-2010, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by anvilhead View Post
....and the people in our lives are really just mirrors.....we project our own internal landscape onto others.
And they do the same to us. If we don't know or forget this, it's way too easy to take things personally. Its our choice to accept or reject their reality, turn the mirror around.

anvil, I swear you and my therapist are related

Jenny, my therapist recommended a book to me, The Four Agreements. It's an easy read, 138 pages, and it's about four basic agreements you make with yourself to achieve personal happiness. Every time my life gets out of whack, it's because I'm breaking one of those agreements with myself.
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Old 04-01-2010, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Chino View Post
If you're looking for a literal place to start, choose one of the things you nitpick your boyfriend about and decided not to do it for one day. When you wake up the next day, make that same decision again "Just for today".

It takes anywhere from 30-90 days to establish a new habit, if done every day. Somewhere during that period of time you will break the old habit, too.

Do you have personal boundaries for yourself? For example I won't subject myself to verbal/physical abuse and will remove myself from those situations. If it's in my home, one of us will have to leave immediately.

I have an acquaintance who is very health conscious. He won't subject himself to second hand smoke under any circumstances.

I have a rule (not boundary) about seat belts. If I'm a passenger I ask once if they forgot their seat belt and that's it. If I'm the driver we're not moving one inch until everyone's seat belt is fastened. Passengers in my vehicle are my moral/legal responsibility. I won't be able to live with myself if my passenger dies without a seat belt on. I don't want the legal/financial consequence on top of that, either.

It seems to go hand in hand that the more we focus on our own boundaries, the less we focus on others. I added a new boundary recently as a safeguard: I will not allow others to manipulate or control me
Thank you so much Chino! Also, thanks for the book idea. I'm sitting here thinking of other books I can read. Any and everything that will help me. I really just want to change my thoughts/behaviors so I can stop going crazy!

I have the SAME rule about seatbelts in my car. I've kind of programmed my boyfriend to wear his in his car, but it's mandatory in mine.

I love your suggestion about "just for today". I will definitely consider that. I come home, and I want to ask, "did you smoke today" or "can you not smoke please" and I keep fighting the urge to do it. I think if I just KEEP at it, it will get so much easier. I'll keep reminding myself of that. I need to stop focusing on him, and how he pisses me off, or hurt my feelings. I'll keep trying to focus on me, and what I can do to stop being so obsessive and critical.

I'm glad I realize these things. It's just putting them into effect. It sounds so much easier than it's going to be.

As far as personal boundaries - not really. I break them all the time. I give in. I subject myself to whatever. I'm petrified of abandonment, and I want to always know someone cares. I will let anyone walk on me, if it means they won't go.
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Old 04-01-2010, 12:46 PM
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I always wonder how you can really discover what made you so "messed" up in the head - and how you can correct the damage.

"often we find that our efforts to control others are really just attempts to compensate for what we see as our OWN deficiencies....and the people in our lives are really just mirrors....."

That's scary how dead on that is for me. All of my "friends" for the most part, possess everything I hate about myself. My boyfriend included. I've tried so hard to overcome my addictions, and I've done a damn good job. NOW - I just try and make everyone do the same. They all do the things I used to do, or want to do. They reflect me entirely...
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Old 04-01-2010, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ThatLittleGirl View Post
I understand where you're coming from. When I first found out about my AH's issues, I thought, I'm strong, I can fix this... Well, fast forward eight years...It's worse than it was before. I was angry, resentful, frustrated...raging out of control all the time because the tighter I held on, the more he slipped through my fingers... See that's the thing, he's going to do what he's going to do...he's not a puppet. And truthfully, I wouldn't want someone to dictate my every move every day either, so I finally understand his increasing push-back on me. In fact, I think he escalates things every time I try to control the situation. There is dignity to being an adult and having the power to make your own choices. You can't let go of a control that you never truly had; but you can gain a control over your life and your responses to the things that go on around you. My AH has his own life to lead...to own, good bad, or indifferent. And for me right now, it's understanding why I think I have the right (regardless of whether I feel it's legitimate or not) to control his life.

Now, it's not all fairy tales and roses...I have good days and very bad ones... I'm still on step one... I read and meditate on it...I want it to really sink in on a foundational level before I move forward. I was to be strong enough to let go and not go insane... I'm not there yet, but I am working on it...Progress not perfection!!!
You say you're on step one? Step one from AA? What is step one? I'm a little new to all of this. Is it that you admit you're powerless? What do you read that helps you get through this?

I can relate with you 100%. What does make us think we have the right to control others? It's sad that I've never realized how possessive I was until lately. I knew I was obsessive, controlling and insecure - but I had no idea how bad off I really was.

It's great to get insight/advice from other people going through the same things. It also offers a lot of hope!
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Old 04-01-2010, 01:36 PM
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You say you're on step one? - Step one for co-dependents...there's a sticky at the top of this forum with the steps for co-dependents...I've printed it off and am reading through the string... Also had a link sent to me by Hello-Kitty that's very helpful:

Step One : Codependents' Guide to the Twelve Steps

I'm working through my issues...why I feel the need to be in control all the time... I'm starting to get a vague picture and it truly stems back to patterns started early in my childhood... I truly want/need to understand that before I can move forward...

I thought I "had" to maintain control...that it actually stopped the chaos/topsy-turvy world...when in fact it was the opposite. The more I pushed my AH, the more he acted against me, the more chaotic our lives. I literally would feel out-of-control...obsessive...wanted to know everything...wanted him to tell me everything...felt like if I just "knew" what was going on...if he would just tell me the truth...I could figure it all out...and I could fix it. I was wrong.

I read the sticky at the top of the forum "What Addicts Do"...and a light came on in me... I felt at peace... Now, I still can't stop my AH's behavior; and to be honest I know he was using as of last Friday; but, I can stop all the emotions I feel because of it...and that feels wonderful...liberating. I had to let go of my worry he'll lose his job, I may have to sell my house and move...all those things I was holding onto... So what if I sell my house...I'll get another one...but I will NOT be a prisoner to his addiction anymore...it's killing me and I wasn't living my life...I was a puppet to his behavior...

So, I'm working Step 1 for Co-Dependents...I love it... Now, I'll still have bad days (had a really bad one on Monday)...but I'm still moving forward...one day at a time...one minute at a time sometimes... And hey, when you feel the compulsion to question him...get on Sober Recovery and read....read and read until it passes...and it will pass.
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