Now what? - Is this my bottom?

Old 03-23-2010, 10:16 AM
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Now what? - Is this my bottom?

I need some feedback... and support! Sorryfor this being such a long post!

At this point I don't know if what I'm feeling is justified or if I'm totally overreacting/ going crazy. So I would really appreciate another person's opinion. So here is a recap of what happened this past week:

Last week AH and I had a brief conversation about his needs and my needs. He basically said that he needs sex now (not in 1 or 2 months if he was to change, but now!), I told him what I needed (basically a partner that is emotionally and mentally available, someone I can talk to) and that my needs are just as strong as his! - No solution! 2 hours later (after I went to work) he texted a female coworker of his that he misses her booty, if he would have a chance (at having sex with her) - she laughed it off and texted back that it was a no go - she has a boyfriend (yes, I know I shouldn't snoop and look at his phone). That night AH got home from work at 12am with 2 female coworkers, who stayed outside while he came in to change clothes. He leaves with them to go to the bar - but doesn't get back until 3:40am (bars close at 2am here). He told me when he got home that it was none of my business where he'd been all night. The next day we got into an arguement (I initiated it, I think) and he told me that he met 2 neighbor girls a couple of days ago and shared some beer with them and he'd really like to f**k them (I know he said it because he knows it would hurt me hearing it - not because it's true - or at least not just because it's true).

Friday he didn't drink - for me, but at that point I was already really upset. I asked him who he texted earlier and he said he was texting the neighbor girl, because he gave her the double comic books he has (now he is very, very protective of his comic book collection - he once gave me a double to look at and I had to make sure I only touched the corners when turning the page and had clean hands etc.). I totally lost it and cried hysterically (seriously completely out of it as if I had a mental breakdown) for over an hour as he refused to talk to me and just completely ignored the fact that I was hurt by his actions. After a while he finally realized that I wasn't in a good place and decided to talk to me for a bit. I told him how I felt - he said he was sorry and that he really, really wants this marriage to work, after pushing him into telling me what I can expect of him in the next few days (until we'd have another talk), he said: I guess you can expect me to be a little grumpy because I won't drink.

Saturday night, I end up calling him at 1:20am (he had to work late, but this was later than usual). He let his voicemail pick up and then called me back a min. later saying that he and his male coworker are going over to another male coworkers house just to hang out for a bit and that he didn't know yet when he'll be home - possibly around 3ish. He came home at 7am!!!! I found out through a call he made that at least one of his female coworkers (the same one he had gone out with several days before) had been out with him too. Later he told me that they went to a frat party and that he made a bad choice, he was sorry, but that there were just a bunch of dudes hanging out playing beer pong all night. I was a mess all of sunday, he went to work and texted me how sorry he was, that he doesn't want to hurt me anymore, etc. I texted the female coworker asking if she was the new girl AH is (trying to) hook up with now - she answered that she's not interested in married man, etc. then forwarded our conversation to AH and told him that I sound like a bitch (which I probably did but still) and that she wouldn't answer my texts anymore (yes, I snooped again). AH came home from work angry at me for looking at his phone records and texting his friend that I don't even know (well, I guess he has a right to be angry at that - I know it's not the most sanest thing to do).

I made it to work on Monday, but texted AH's coworker (telling her that she can call me a bitch if she wants and that I'm sure she'd be totally cool with it if her husband was to do xyz), then texted AH who got even angrier because I was texting his friend again (and she didn't want to hear from me anymore - didn't answer me either). I made it through the day, but as soon as I got home after work I had a complete breakdown - I was soo depressed and ended up lying on the floor a blubbering mess for hours, crying, screaming - just completely out of it (actually ended up smoking some weed - something I hadn't done in at least 1 1/2 years - never was an addict or anything - because I thought I truly wouldn't make it through the night without any type of self-medication). AH ended up going out to the store and to get food, and had texted with neighbor girl right before he left and called her right after he left (he was gone for almost an hour and the store isn't far from our house - 30 min tops and yes I had snooped again). After he got back and I was somewhat mellowed out, I tried to talk to him. AH said that I had had all day to talk, but I chose to go crazy instead and now wasn't the time to talk since it was already 10pm. Well that didn't sit well with me at all - and I ended up yelling at him, trying to make him see what he was doing to me, telling him that all he ever does is ignore me, etc.). He told me I was crazy/insane, and asked what kind of sane person would go through phone records, and that I don't deserve him telling me anything anymore because I lost that privilege. After I was raging and begging him to talk to me for some time, I finally realized that this wasn't going anywhere and took his advice to get away from him. I started packing a suitcase full of clothes. Woke up this morning, ready to stay strong and face the day... well he saw that I had packed and asked to talk to me. Told me he didn't want me to leave, etc. and somehow we ended up in the blame game (him blaming me for things I've done, me blaming him for things he's done) and he walked away, which just got me really upset, because I feel he always either walks away or shuts down when we’re trying to have a conversation. He told me we’d talk later, that I was getting too emotional and was pushing his buttons. He said we’ve got until Wednesday (because he had told me the night before that we would talk about things on Wednesday, since last night was not a good time to talk). I was upset, could feel the knot in my throat getting bigger and bigger, knew I’d have another breakdown if I didn’t do something. Skipped class, called in to work said I wasn’t coming in today, put the suitcase into my car, wrote AH a note saying that I’m here when he’s ready to work on things, on himself, and ready to have a conversation without walking away. Now I’ve been sitting in my car outside our house for over 1 ½ hours and just don’t know anymore - I don’t know what to do, what to feel, where to go (I know 2 people I could call, but they are at work right now), I just really, really don’t know anymore.

Was I wrong to act the way I did (apart from the obvious that I really just ended up harming myself by obsessing over AH again)? Did his behavior really justify me snooping through the phone records? What’s my fault in all of this (really need some help here, because in a way I can justify/ find excuses for everything I did that would make what I did right - but I‘m sure AH can do the same for all his actions and he tells me all the time how I only point out his faults and play it like I‘m perfect)? I feel like everything I've learned in the past few months is just gone - I didn't use any of the tools in the past week - I just let all my emotions and obsessions take over
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:40 AM
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I had to relook

You said he's your husband?? You sign an open marriage contract with him? You're justified to be angry over what he's pulling here !
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:43 AM
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Oh boy.

Well the others will be along soon but I'm going to do something I've never done here.

Here are your choices:
Get away from this guy. He's a monster. He doesn't love or respect you. You are bending over backward, he's cheating on you, he doesn't respect you. YOu don't nee anymore proof. Kick him out of your house. Tell him to get the eff out and get a lawyer.

That's my opinion.

Or, keep engaging, keep feeling like crap about yourself, keep snooping, keep having complete breakdowns. I did this. Lots of folks here did. You've seen our posts Lotus. You can't change this guy. You can't make him give a rats a$$ about you. He's not going to miraculously wake up and suddenly say, "OH my GOD what have I done to my beautiful wife?!?" He's going to keep blameshifting, keep on being the selfish piece of crap he is.

The only way to feel better is to get away from him.

You can end this. do it by going bad ass on him. Stand tall, stand firm and get the hell away from him. Don't engage. Don't discuss. Don't plead. Just either get him out or you get out ASAP. Buh bye cheating, drunk jerkward.

There. Now I've done it.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:44 AM
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Disrespect.

Even if you weren't married to him, it would be unacceptable.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:46 AM
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Lotus, Lotus,

What has happened matters not in the big scheme of things.
This really sounds like major manipulation on his part to make you crazy.
I will admit my own bias here, my ex really played me for a fool, and I actually begged him to stop cheating. Begged him. I will never get that back.
But, I learned. He did things to purposely and pointedly hurt me, escalating every time, cycling bigger and bigger until I exploded.
I guess I can thank him for that, it was the last night I drank.
Take care of you.
Go to your friends house and clear your mind.
Love yourself.
Beth

edited to add:
ditto captainzing, transform, still waters.
yep.
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:50 AM
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Wow, I am sorry your going through this...

Do you still love him? I guess, IMO if he is texting all these girls..going to bars late at night all night-lying to you...Is this really what you want in your marriage? Maybe think about some boundries to make.

I think looking at his phone and knowing he is texting all these woman would just make me go crazy, he is your husband-He should not be cheating on you physically or emotionally.

I just feel your pain and I would find a plan to leave if I was in that postion. Do you have kids?
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:04 AM
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Lotus,

Listen to our transformie. She speaks from the wisdom of having been through this too much, too long.

You wanted feedback on whether you're overreacting. Here's feedback: Any one of the things your husband has done and said in the last couple of days would have led me to pack and leave without looking back - and good riddance. I'd be off finding the most savage divorce attorney in existence, and would be getting that slimy pestilence out of my life as quickly as I could, before he could ruin even one more night's sleep for me.

And that's me. And I'm pretty mellow. Are you seeing past his gaslighting now?

Maybe you're used to it but can't see it, but as an example: Normal people don't tell their wives FOR ANY REASON that they want to have sex with the neighbor girls. Ever. He is a sick, sad, immature individual that you've come to think of as normal. He creates chaos in your life that you've come to think of as love.

Another purely personal opinion: You are in a crazy situation with a crazy drunk. This situation will destroy your self-esteem, your sanity, your health, and whatever shreds of peace of mind you have left. There is no man on earth that is worth that to me. Stress kills. And I have too much to do with the time I have left.

Take some time away, spend some time with healthy people, and you will be able to see just how insane it is that you're spending so much time and energy trying to save this. From what you've told us, he's not capable of being the person you need...and has no intention of trying anyway.

I'm sorry you're going through this - but you really do have the ability to free yourself any time you're ready to get off the rollercoaster. You are holding the 'stop' switch in your hand. I hope you choose to use it. This isn't love, and this isn't life.

Hugs,
GL

Last edited by GiveLove; 03-23-2010 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:24 AM
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Lotus,
My personal opinion is that when you have reason to suspect infidelity (such as when he announces to you that he wants to be with other women) then that gives you just cause to check his phone and do whatever else you need to do to ascertain if he is in fact being unfaithful. Other people on this site may tell you differently, that trying to 'keep tabs' on an alcoholic is just going to drive you insane, but if he is in fact cheating on you then I think that is something that you need to know so that you can stop and consider what your choices are from there. If you have to look at his phone in order to know if he is cheating, then so be it. And frankly I wouldn't worry about what the other girls think - they ought to know better than to get mixed up with a married man, and if they do not, then having an enraged spouse to deal with is a just consequence for them.
I haven't heard anything in your post that implies that he wants to quit drinking for himself, only that he briefly stops drinking because you ask him to or he does not want to offend you. If that is the case then I suspect that he is not ready to quit drinking, period, in which case you can expect more of the same of this behavior. If that is the case, then I think transform said it best - you can walk away from this guy, or you can allow him to torment you with more of the same.
Flirting with other women, telling you that he wants to be intimate with other women, trying to demand sex in order that you fill 'his' needs, going out until all hours of the night, getting drunk, you name it.... this is a totally unacceptable way to be behaving in any marriage, and I hope you can step outside the situation enough to realize that.
One other thing just to keep in mind - between his emotional outbursts, his obsession over his comic book collection, going to fraternity parties, it seems like this man really is stuck in his teenage years. When an A starts using as a child or a teenager, his or her emotional development STOPS at that point. If your husband has been using that long, then this is what you are truly dealing with, is a child grown older, and I would take that into consideration when trying to assess if there is any remaining potential for this marriage to work.
Best wishes,
MZ
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Old 03-23-2010, 11:55 AM
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Overreacting??? Are you kidding me?? Definitely not! In fact, I think you are way underreacting. This jerk is a total scumbag, pardon my french. Why do you allow this kind of treatment? Are you getting anything out of this relationship? If it were me, I'd be giving that joker his freedom PRONTO, and grabbing me a bunch of GONE!
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:10 PM
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What does it matter who's to blame? You are miserable. You both seem out of control.

You have a whole hosts of reasons to leave him. Do you have any reasons to stay with him?

What is your situation? Do you have friends and family and a way to support yourself? I hope all your emotional eggs aren't in this one basket.

I'm sorry you are in such pain. Maybe it's time to sort it out with professional support.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by transformyself View Post
The only way to feel better is to get away from him.
I'm going to go way far out on the limb here. Maybe I have no business saying this because my viewpoint is from that of an alcoholic, not the spouse. Compared to the insanity described by the original post, alcoholism is a relatively minor problem.

And I don't mean the insanity displayed by the alcoholic husband in this case. That's insane for sure. But equally insane are the behaviors described by Lotus herself.

And I know that's not what she wants to hear. But if she truly wants to feel better, it's probably going to take a lot more than getting away from him. It's probably going to take putting the focus right back on Lotus and recovering from her own insanity.

The last thing she needs is someone telling her it's all his fault and things will all be better if she just gets away from him.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:34 PM
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Nice people can be sucked in by bad people.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:35 PM
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You are not over reacting. Nothing he is doing is even close to normal behavior or acceptable of a husband. That is a stark reality that many of us miss. I found myself completely isolated. We (I) had no friends. Not one. I never ever saw normal relationships. It was just him and I. I spent one week with xah around another couple in a normal healthy relationship and she said one sentence and between the two - all the walls of denial came crashing down.

It is a form of crazy making and then we lose trust in ourselves and our perceptions.

Only you know where your bottom is. Your behavior is not healthy either. I would strongly suggest that you just get away from him for awhile. Find a sane and peaceful spot to think. You don't have to make life long decisions - just get some breathing space -- and a counselor. You need some clarity and you will never find clarity as long as you are in this dance. The dance keeps you spinning and dizzy.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:54 PM
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I definitely agree with Thumper about the unhealthy behaviors you are exhibiting in this situation, too. It seems as if you two feed off each other and it just keeps the craziness going. You most definitely need to get away for a while so you can get a little perspective, which is impossible to do while in the center of all the chaos. (((HUGS)))
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:03 PM
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You are miserable. Why?

1) Because he's a horrifying excuse for a husband?

2) Because he's an alcoholic?

3) Because you have an insatiable need to prove he's both of these things?


You will continue to be miserable. Why?

1) He has no reason to be a better husband. He is who is. You married an adulterer. You married a louse. You wanted a husband, he wants to be just as he is.

2) Without recovery, alcohol is a permanent and progressive condition.

3) You have received 1,000 different pieces of proof of his hurtful behavior up until now and it hasn't been enough to convince you and you still have to ask others if you've had enough.

He will continue to string you along with the we'll talk, no I'm walking out, okay let's talk, no you're crazy, now we'll talk, forget it you're too emotional BS until it stops working on you.

He will continue to sleep with whomever he wants, whenever he wants, how many different ways he wants BECAUSE HE CAN.

Nothing is going to change until you change the only thing you can change....and that is YOU.

Stop sitting in the car with a packed suitcase and just drive away. There are shelters you can call. There are motels you can stay at. Call a friend at their work and ask to stay the night then go nurse a coffee at a diner somewhere and wait for your friend to finish work. No one could think clearly in all that chaos. Get some space and let yourself breathe a little.

My best to you,

Alice
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:06 PM
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I am praying for you. I remember this situation very well and leaving it was the best GIFT i gave myself. It can and will get worse. Please be kind to yourself. You can do anything you put your mind too. Love yourself first.
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:21 PM
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Oh lord Lotus...

The never-ending gut wrenching hole we dig ourselves into with our A's. I am praying for you, that if you are still in your car, you will back out of the driveway and just keep driving.

The place are you in is nothing but a dead end. The road ahead may be long, scary and unknown...but it is YOURS. Please, leave this sorry excuse for a man behind you. You seriously need to go south side on his @ss.

The more I read your story, the more I kept asking myself....How much MORE does she need to go through before the lightbulb goes off? Lotus, beloved, you cannot save him from himself. You can pray, hope, wish, beg, demand, cry, act crazy..and he will STILL continue to do whatever he wants.

He doesn't care.
He doesn't want to care.
He is a liar.
He is a thief.

And he is NOT a man you need to fulfull you. He is selfish, sad and needs to grow up! Put on your big girl pants, put the car in reverse, and get the heck outta Dodge sweetie! The sign says...BETTER LIFE 10MILES AHEAD!!! Go for it!

:ghug3
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Old 03-23-2010, 01:37 PM
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keith, I believe leaving/getting some distance has been the main advice because that would be the first step to achieve some clarity... just like with alcohol, there are other issues as well, but you cannot work on them if you are not "sober" and that means "no contact" in the F&F forum. That has been the spirit of the messages in my humble opinion...

But I get it.... it is also wishful thinking to believe once we are away from an active alcoholic everything will be happiness. Just like active alcoholics when they leave an enabler thinking their issues are over. Its just a very sad dance of denial!

Lotus, all the best to you. I know its difficult and I hated to listen to this, but its true.. don't take it personal. He is not doing this TO YOU. He is not out to HARM YOU. He is just doing what he does. He is just being who he wants to be now. You can't control him. That comic book thing resonated because the alcoholic I knew is also a comic fan... there is some "don't want to grow up" aura with that sort of thing.

Know there is much hope and gifts for you, if you decide to receive them... we are here for you. I am glad you decided to share what you are going through. It takes guts to share who we are, to remove the mask that "we are ok" or "we can manage our life".

HUGS
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:10 PM
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I get you, TC, thanks. Hard to get sober when you're still glugging from the bottle (or the man, in this case).

And yes, maybe that's the spirit of the replies. They sound a little like, 'He's your problem,' to me. And while he is a problem, your problem may run a whole lot deeper and has very little to do with him at all.
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:15 PM
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Wow... so many replies. Thank you all for your ES&H.

I'm back in my car now (don't worry haven't been sitting here all day - just got back to go online. After I posted here I went to the park, walked, sat by the water and read a book, went to get a yummy lunch at a nearby cafe and I feel a little more like myself again) and getting ready to figure out where to spend the next couple of nights.

To those of you who pointed out that my behavior was insane: believe me, I know! And I think I did mention in my original post that I let my emotions take over and was at times completely out of it. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if I had some form of ptsd, because the past few triggers resulted in some serious "I can't think straight" kind of reaction from my side. Anyways, I have been seeing a counselor once a week since the beginning of Jan. and have really been trying to work on myself (and did ok for the most part with just a few triggers here and there that I was able to manage using my tools, well that was until I completely lost it this past week).


Sidenote to Keith: Thanks for your honest response here. I don't think I'm putting all the blame onto AH - I know he's not responsible for my actions, just as I'm not responsible for his. In the end I chose to react to his abusive behaviors in an unhealthy way.
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