Ceres

Session 1:Introduction Forward Discussion
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...iscussion.html

Chapter 1- Jessica's Story Discussion
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...iscussion.html

Chapter 2 - Other Stories
The Alcoholism and Addictions Help Forums- by SoberRecovery.com (Codependant No More STUDY- Session 3- CHAPTER 2: Other Stories Discussion)

Chapter 3 - Codependency
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ependency.html

Codependent No More:

How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself

By Melodie Beattie

Book Study
CHAPTER 4 - Codependent Charachteristics

Chapter 5 Will go Up Monday Evening

Ceres

Hey all: :-)

This chapter get's into the codependants charachteristics. She begins by letting us know that these icky things we must accept, live with, deal with, struggle through, and frequently change. I, for one, see this as a beacon of hope. Gaining some self-knowledge. Being able to see why I behave the way I do so I can recognize defects and stop myself from acting out on them at full throttle. AA looks at defects too. But, that program is not designed for the codependant nature. So, I've been needlessly spinning in my hampster wheel because I was not aware of this codependancy side of me.

The defects here and the tools to deal with them are completely different, even alien. Melonie explained that these charachteristics became our way of dealing with our complex worlds and truying to make sense of them. "We all have self protective devices that may have outgrown their usefullness, and many times these devices turn on us. They become self-destructive". <wave>

"Many professionals say that the first step towards change is awareness. The second step is acceptence. So, let us begin:

This chapter has 10 pages of codependant charachteristics. It is up to us to find which charachteristics we OWN. Each broken down into subcatagories as follows:

Caretaking
Low Self-Worth
Repression
Obession
Controlling
Denial
Dependency
Poor Communication
Weak Boundaries
Lack of Trust
Anger
Sex Problems
Miscellaneous
Progressive

Okay, so each sub-catagory has countless itemized specific traits. For anyone who may not have the book. One may be able to google the above to look for specific traits. Or, maybe someone knows of a useful link?

This is also where our own definition of codependancy from Charpter three comes into play. Identifing the traits we have that feed that definition. "Each person must decide for themselves if codependency is a problem. Each person must decide what needs to be changed and when that should happen."

The chapter ends with Melonie explaining that can be fun and simple. It is not always easy, but it is simple. We will be learning one new behavior that we will be devoting ourselves to: Taking care of ourselves.

Activity #1: Involves marking each individual listed traits listed 0-2. Two being very identifiable. In the future, she says, we will be using this list as goals.

The second activity which anyone can do with or without the book:

Activity #2: How do you feel about changoing yourself? What do you think would happen if you began to change? Do you think you can change? Why or why not? Write several paragraphs answering these questions.

Tall order! I'm going to try and get MINE done this weekend. :-)

bookwyrm

Instead of writing all this down, I'm going to write it all out here. Bear with me!

'..the first step towards change is awareness. The second step is acceptance.'

I wrestle with both of these on a daily basis it feels! Sometimes, just being self aware enough to recognise that I'm doing something that just isn't working is beyond me! I've discovered that not having an AH anymore doesn't mean my codie tendencies have vanished and I'm all better now but it has greatly reduced them.

Caretaking - a 1 for me I think.
I 'feel anxious and guilty when someone has a problem' and am almost compelled to give advice and try and 'fix' things. XAH was so controlling that I didn't really focus on anyone but him. Now, though, I have to watch how I react when someone has a problem. Sometimes I think I have gone to the other extreme in fear of being too codie - I won't offer to help or give advice.

Low Self Worth - 2 plus!
I identify with almost everything in the list - I have only 3 exceptions!

Repression - 2
I shut myself down regularly. I lose myself in a book or a game - my thoughts don't intrude. I comfort eat (and cook!) too.

Obsession - 0
Not any more!! That all left when XAH became X!

Controlling - 1
I can be a bit of a control freak, I like to have everything planned to the nth degree. I also am a little bit of a neat freak too. My controlling though, isn't based on other people and more on my environment I think. I spent so long living with a controlling alcoholic that these were the only real areas I have any control over (though he was a messy, lazy slob).

Denial - 1
Yeah, when I read the heading I though, nope, not me! I've taken my head out of the sand these past few years, thank you very much. Then I read the descriptors. Uh-oh...
I'm good at ignoring things and hope they'll go away. I sometimes spend a little too easily, calling it 'retail therapy'. I overeat. So yeah, maybe I am still living in denial a little- but don't we all to one extent or another?

Dependency - can I have a half point here?
I've come a long way since I first read this book. I really have very little of this now. I didn't get a lot of love and approval from my father growing up and I still don't love me but I think I do like me. Everything else does not apply! I'm not interested in love, though. I love my few friends and family and that's it. I'm not interested in expanding that circle any wider right now. If anything, I'm in a bit of an isolation phase right now.

Poor Communication - 0
I don't always take myself seriously. I can be cynical and self depreciating and sarcasm is never very far away when I speak. I do talk too much about silly things - I talk when I get nervous! But the rest doesn't apply to me much!

Weak Boundaries - 0.
Yeah, see above - I'm in isolation mode. No one around to trash my boundaries except at work. And that is slowly but surely changing.

Lack of Trust - 1
Still struggle to trust myself. I used to almost always trust someone else before trusting me!

Anger - 0
Don't really feel much anger any more - this is a big improvement!

Sex Problems - 0
The only problems I have are when the batteries die!!!

Miscellaneous - 0
I do find it difficult to feel close to people but that's it!

Progressive - 1
I still do some of the things on this list - overeat, become withdrawn and isolated, feel hopless and suffer from depession. But these feelings have decreased so much in intensity since XAH left and I just don't do some of the other things on the list.

When I first read through this book, I though 'wow. AH would benifit so much from reading this' - typical codie response! I still think that everyone should be given a copy of this book at an early age - but I haven't gone out and bought every copy I could lay my hands on and handed them out on street corners. A triumph over codie tendencies here I think!

roxiestone

This part of my book has so many lines that it looks like a map of Los Angeles.

Here we go!

Caretaking - 2

I strongly identified with 12 of the 25 characteristics. Biggest issue - strongly compelled to give advice (what the heck am I doing on a support board!) and feel angry when it's not followed.

Low Self Worth -2

I strongly identified with 16 of the 33 characterstics. Most telling - feel different (terminally unique) and I take things very, very personally.

Repression - 0

Obsession - .5

3 of the 13

Controlling - Big Fat 2

8 for 8 I am a big old control freak. I learned this coping mechanism as a child when trying to control the chaos around me. It no longer serves me and it's time to learn some new skills.

Denial 0

I have depression and eating issues, but I believe them to be a result of other issues, not denial.

Dependency 1

6 for 26. Mostly strongly id with looking to relationships for good feelings.

Poor Communication 0

Weak Boundaries 1

3 of 8. strongest id with getting angry and intolerant

Lack of Trust 0

Anger 1

6 for 16. This used to be a much larger problem for me than it is now. I've worked through a lot of my issues here. I still most strongly id with being afraid of my own anger.

Sex Problems 0

Which is as much sex as I'm having.

MISC 1

5 of 16

Extremely responsible and difficulty having fun....

Progressive .5 NOW

I've been working on my codependent behaviors for some time now, but in the past, all of these were selected.


Whew!

I'll get to #2 tomorrow.

bookwyrm

Interesting. I wonder is low self worth will be the common denominator for codies? Maybe we'll see if others post their analysis. I found this really interesting to do cos I could compare it to the me of 2 years ago and really see how much I've changed...and how much has stayed the same!

roxiestone

I didn't realize that low self esteem was my issue until I began to see how much I sought external validation. I chased it, craved it and could be manipulative to get it. It's only when I realized that that I began to understand the low self esteem issue. I mean I heard about it for ever, after all, I'm a child of the sixties, but I never understood what it meant to me. At this point, when I notice this, I can begin some positive self talk to replace those old self-loathing tapes that have been playing in my head since Heck was a pup.

Ceres

Okay (I've been sick as a dog) Finally getting up energy to do activitivities:

Activity #1: Involves marking each individual listed traits listed 0-2. Two being very identifiable. In the future, she says, we will be using this list as goals.


Although many marked as 1 and 2: These are the ones that could be marked 5 or more. If there was such an option:

Caretaking:
- Think and feel responsible for other people - for other people's feelings, thoughts, actions, choices, wants, needs, well-being, lack of well being, and ultimate destiny.
- Feel compelled - almost forced - to help that person solve the problem, such as offering unwanted advice, giving rapid fire series of suggestions, or fixed feelings.
- Feel safest when giving
- abandon thier routine to respond to or do something for somebody else


Low Self-Worth:
- Come from troubled repressed or dysfunctional famililies
- Fear Rejection
- Take things personally
- Have been victims of sexual, physical, or emotional abuse, neglect, abondonment, or alcoholism

Obsession:
- Feel terribly anxious about problems and people
- worry
- abandon their routine because they are so upset about somebody or something
- focus all their energy on other people and problems

Controlling:
- become afraid to let other people be who they are and allow events to happen naturally.
- think they know best how things should turn out and how people should behave.

Denial:
- get confused
- get depressed or sick

Dependancy:
- Look for happiness outside of themselves
- latch onto whoever or whatever they think can provide happiness
- Feel terribly threatened by the loss of any thing or person they think provides their happiness.
- Didn't feel love and approval from their parents
- desperately seek love and approval
- often seek love from people incapable of loving
- equate love with pain
- try to prove they are good enough to be loved

Poor Communication:
- bribe
- advise
- don't mean what they say
- don't know what they mean

Weak Boundaries:
- Say they won't tolerate certain behaviors from other people
- Gradually increase their tolerance until they can tolerate and do things they said they never would.
- let others hurt them
- wonder why they hurt so badly

Lack of Trust:
- Try to trust untrustworthy people

Anger:
- feel very scarred hurt and angry

Sex problems:
- Have a difficult time asking for what they need in bed
- lose interest in sex
- Wonder why they don't enjoy sex

Miscellaneous:
- stay loyal tp their compulsions and people even when it hurts
- be confused about the nature of a problem

Progressive:
- feel lethargic
- feel depressed
- become withdrawn and isolated

Whew, that was a lot of work and a wee depressing. However, I know that identifying these issues that many have but can't SEE. Will allow me to get better.

Activity #2: How do you feel about changing yourself? What do you think would happen if you began to change? Do you think you can change? Why or why not? Write several paragraphs answering these questions.

I'm not particularly jumping for joy in regards to changing myself. Not today, anyway. This attitude seems to change on a daily basis. My optimism comes and goes. I do believe optimism is my key for getting better. My key to obtaining some serenity and happiness (healthy happiness). I tend to have optimism more than not. My life is a tornado at the moment. So, I'm in a depressed state. Hard to see what I truly want to change, if anything. I should probably come back to this when I'm in a less hopeless state of mind. I know better than to feel hopless. Which just means I'm spending that much more energy trying to figure out why I'm feeling hopeless in the first place.

I have no idea what would happen to me if I changed. I can't fathom what it would be like to have all these traits - that have made who I am - change. Right now, it doesn't seem possible. But, I know it is. I see people change all the time.

bookwyrm

(((alizern)))

Looking hard at ourselves and our 'flaws' is depressing. But the good thing is that we can change. I wrestle with my depression and frequently feel overwhelmed. It helps if I remind myself that I don't have to do it all today. Baby steps! It took me a long, long time to turn into a raging codie, it will just take me some time to recover.

Hope your spirits lift when you begin to feel better!:ghug3

wicked

thank you bookwyrm,
sometimes, even though i am currently well medicated for my MDD, this codie thing seems overwhelming.

alizern,
you need to know from me, how much i appreciate every word you write. you obviously are very honest with yourself and it is inspiring to me.

(oh dammit, now i am weepy! LOL don't like that, but i will deal)

JenT1968

I am doing this along with you, but at home for the moment. I don't always like the need to change, it can seem overwhelming, but I try to remember that the imperative is mine. The only person who needs me to change is me. so I get to take it at my own pace, I can choose which bits are helpful to me right now, and leave the rest for later if I want.

I try and remember that even those things on the list that I experience as painful (when I recognise them as a trait that I have) are just behaviours or thought patterns. They are not me. and daunting and uncomfortable though changing that may be, I am worthwhile as I am right now. There are days when instead of working on my behaviours head on, I need to get the house clean or spend the day laughing with my children or read a book.

I am always, and will still be, me, my goal is to be a happier me, with new, more helpful, coping mechanisms and life strategies, rather than being shackled to those that were useful when I was younger.

FindingPeace1

Caretaking
- think and feel responsible for others
- feel bad when others have a problem
***** feel compelled - almost forced - to help
- anticipate other people's needs (but sometimes TOTALLY don't see their needs)
- say yes when I mean no (then passive aggressively forget, am late, etc.)
- not know what I need and want
- try to please others instead of myself
** attracted to needy people
- needy people attracted to me
- blame others for my actions
- blame others for my feelings
- believe others make me crazy
- feel angry, victimized, etc.
- other people are frustrated with me for the above

Low Self Worth
- repressed family
- think I'm not good enough
- feel guilty to spend money on myself
** fear rejection
** take things personally
- have been a victim of sexual and emotional abuse, neglect and abandonment
***** afraid of making mistakes (or not doing it good enough/perfect; I don't like doing things poorly!!)
** tough time with decisions
- expect perfection
** wonder why I can't get anything done to my satisfaction
***** ENDLESS amt of shoulds
- guilt
- try to help others instead of me
***** get artificial feelings of self worth from helping others
- wish good thing would happen
** wish others would like/love me
***** try to prove I'm good enough
- settle for being needed

Repression
- push thoughts and feelings out of awareness
** afraid to be me

Obsession
** feel anxious about problems and people
** think and talk a lot about others
- worry
** can't get things done

Controlling
** lived with things out of control
- afraid to be me and let things unfold naturally
- don't see or deal with my fear of loss of control
***** think I know best
** try to control through advice-giving, passive manipulation
- eventually provoke anger
- get frustrated and angry


Denial
- ignore problems
- pretend things aren't so bad
- get confused
- get depressed or sick
- believe lies
- lie to myself

Dependency
- latch onto something to make me happy
** feel threatened by the loss of that which makes me happy
- didn't feel love from parents (dad was gone; I knew mom loved me, but she spent waaayy more time caretaking others, so I didn't feel loved, but then felt guilty that I felt that way, when I intellectually knew she did)
- don't love myself (all the time)
- seek love from those incapable
- try to prove I'm good enough
- don't take time to see if others are good enough
- don't take time to figure out if I love others
- stay in relationships that don't work
- feel trapped

Poor Communication
- blame
***** advise
- don't know what I mean
** indirect means of getting needs met
- find it difficult to get to the point
- aren't sure of the point
** gauge words carefully to get desired effect
** try to say what I think will please
** try to say what I think will provoke
** try to say what I hope will make people do what I want
- don't say no
** talk too much
- talk about others
- wait to express my opinion until I hear others'
- have a difficult time asserting my rights
- have a difficult time expressing emotions

Weak Boundaries
- gradually increase tolerance
- let others hurt me
** complain, blame, and try to control while not changing the situation
- get angry

Lack of Trust
- don't trust myself
- don't trust my feelings
- don't trust my decisions
- don't trust others
- try to trust untrustworthys

Anger
- feel scared, hurt and angry
- live with others that are scared, hurt and angry
- afraid of my own anger (less and less so)
** afraid of other's anger
- think people will go away if anger arises
** afraid to make others angry
- repress anger
- feel increasing amounts of anger, resentment and bitterness

Sex Problems
- afraid of losing control
***** have a difficult time asking for what I need (even saying need is hard - I wanted to change it to want)
- don't talk about it

Misc.
***** vacillate in decisions and emotions
- stay loyal when it hurts
- feel confused

~~~~~~~~~~
What I find interesting is many of these apply recently, since I realized my husband was drinking a lot and I confronted him. It's like I have a codie side that takes over sometimes, but not always (which is nice - I know I have non-codie skills sometimes!).

The other thing I notice is that I am often one thing and/or the opposite.
* I OVER think of other's needs or I am oblivious (this could also be described as: I fear rejection or I try to let go of it so much, I don't see how others feel and I end up hurting others unintentionally).
* I blame my husband OR I think if I just change myself enough, I can fix everything. * I think I'm not good enough or I think I am better than (proud/ashamed).
* I deal with things extremely passively or very aggressively.
* I deny or I obsess.
* I advise/worry/control or I push away.
* I don't talk about it or I make a big deal of it.

I think this is because the paradigm I am working in is faulty, ie. right/wrong (blame you OR me), better than/less than, passive/aggressive, deny/obsess, or deny/control - meaning neither extreme leads to peace, but I don't see a middle way, so I vascillate. It's also because I don't know HOW (at least, in that situation or at the time) so I am like a new baseball player wildly swinging my bat; I don't have self control with these issues so I OVERdo or UNDERdo what I am trying to do.

I feel overwhelmed when I look at the list. I have a little voice that says I must be the one that makes communication so bad sometimes in my relationship and if I could just fix me, he could open up/trust/feel safe, blah blah blah.
I WANT to change. It's very hard to change. I feel humbled when I feel the depth of how hard it is because generally, I want my husband to magically change when I know it is SO HARD.
If I began to change, I would find more peace in transitions.
If I began to change, I would find more courage in scary situations, and would be able to say/do what needs to be said and done to grow.
If I began to change, I would have less stress and do more self care.
If I began to change, I would find some freedom from feeling the SHOULDS or out of control or confusion or stuckness.
If I began to change, I would treat others with more respect and honor for who they are.
If I began to change, I could stop waiting for others to change and move forward.
If I began to change, I could release the weight in my heart and throat and stomach.

I know I can change, but I don't know how so much. I know things to do: journal, therapy, detach, etc. but it seems such a molasses-slow process. It feels hard. I am so USED to being the way I am.
The main thing I need to do (I think) is be more and more observant of what I think and want to say and say - all the time. I try but it takes a herculean amount of effort sometimes to be aware like that. It makes me feel tired sometimes. It brings up feelings of not good enough and "I can't; it's hopeless!" I feel...impatient.
Sometimes, when I am trying to be aware when talking to my husband, I feel burdened and like it's not fair that I am busting my ass to understand and not dump my anger and listen and not shut down when it feels like he isn't trying at all. I know that isn't the point. It's not a tit for tat situation. I know my self improvement needs to be for me, not for/about him. It takes humility and awareness.

I'm working on it!!

Ceres

Thanks all of you! :-)

This is hard. Sometimes I just run on the Nike slogan "Just do it". You guys here sticking with me is priceless and so appreciated.

freefalling

"it seems such a molasses-slow process. It feels hard. I am so USED to being the way I am.
The main thing I need to do (I think) is be more and more observant of what I think and want to say and say - all the time. I try but it takes a herculean amount of effort sometimes to be aware like that. It makes me feel tired sometimes. It brings up feelings of not good enough and "I can't; it's hopeless!" I feel...impatient. so true for me also...

MAuigirl

Caretaking: 2
Low Self-Worth:1
Repression: 2
Controlling: 2
Denial: 1
Dependency: 1
Poor Communication:1 - getting better here!
Weak Boundaries - 1 getting better!
Lack of Trust -0
Anger -2
Sex Problems - 0
Miscellaneous -0
Progressive -0

Sooo, I hated doing this. I didn't want to take any sort of objective look at where I was and how far I had to go. But, I was happy to see that the areas where I have been more cognizant of are improving. Communication and boundaries are two areas that were/are really affecting my marriage so I decided to start with those. but interestingly, it overlaps into all the other areas. Because once you become aware and choose to change any given behavior, it starts to change you in all sorts of unexpected ways.

I have chosen talk through issues with my husband no matter how difficult. I will stay present and do my breathing to maintain composure and we will talk until we are through. This has improved my self image as I am not thinking of myself as a little scardy-cat anymore. I am also realizing that, wait a minute, my H doesn't have this all figured out either, which makes me feel better about my own intelligence. I am learning to fight for my boundaries because I am not just giving up, and not only do I start to feel my anger sooner (well irritation for sure), I am not stuffing it and becoming resentful because we are "having it out" right there. very interesting.

bluebelle

Caretaking 2
Low Self-Worth 2
Repression 0
Obession 2
Controlling 1
Denial 1
Dependency 1
Poor Communication 1
Weak Boundaries 1
Lack of Trust 2
Anger 1
Sex Problems 1
Miscellaneous 1
Progressive 1

roxiestone

Activity #2: How do you feel about changoing yourself? What do you think would happen if you began to change? Do you think you can change? Why or why not? Write several paragraphs answering these questions.

First, the negatives - I look at myself in amazement sometimes - how could I have been so dense for so long? Especially someone who thought she was smart. Not so smart for a very long time. Wish I'd wised up sooner, but I just tell myself that it takes what it takes.

I relish the change. I can see improvements in the amount of peace I have in my life in the improvements that I've already made. It's a marked difference. It's like this process is building up a momentum of it's own and snowballing down hill, but in a really good way.

I'm excited to be free of the nagging self-doubt and the desperation that has haunted me in the past. I long for the place when I won't feel or at least feel for very long, that out-of-control feeling. I want the peace of mind and assuredness that comes from having a healthy relationship with myself.

mermaidgirl

I'm excited to be free of the nagging self-doubt and the desperation that has haunted me in the past. I long for the place when I won't feel or at least feel for very long, that out-of-control feeling. I want the peace of mind and assuredness that comes from having a healthy relationship with myself.

Well put. That "out-of-control" feeling. Ugh. I know that feeling. Sometimes it is a fence walking day with that feeling, but more so-not. Wonderful thread, everyone!

Thumper

Caretaking:
- think and feel responsible for other people
- feel anxiety, pity, and guilt when other people have a problem
- feel compelled to offer advice. I'm working hard at this one. It even annoys me.
- anticipate other people's needs
- find themselves saying yes when they mean no.
- not know what they want and need or tell themselves it is not important. {so true}
- try to please others instead of themselves
- find it easeir to feel and express anger about injusties done to others rather then themselves
- feel safest when giving and guilty when someone gives to them

* there were actually six more that I checked when I first read the book but don't feel like they apply today.

Low Self-Worth
- come from dysfunctional family
- denied that family was dysfunctional
- blame themselves for everything
- pick on themselves for everything
- get angy and defensive when others criticize
- feel different from the rest of the world
- feel guilty about spending money on themselves or having fun
- fear rejection
- take things personally
- tell themselves they can't do anything right.
- be afraid of making decisions
- have a lot of 'shoulds'
- feel a lot of guilt
- feel ashamed of who they are
- wish other people would like and love them but settle for being needed

** way more there then I would have guessed.

Repression
- push their thoughs and feelings out of their awareness because of fear and guilt
- become afraid to let themselves be who they are
- appear rigid and controlled

Obsession
- worry
- never find answers
- focus all energy on other people and problems

Controlling
- lived through events and with people that were out of control, causing sorrow and disappointment
- become afraid to let people be who they are and let events unfold naturally
- don't see or deal with their fears of loss of control.
- think they know best about how things should turn out and how people should behave.
- try to control events and people through advice giving
- get frustrated and angry (and how!)
- feel controlled by events and people.

** I think that is nearly every single one. Yuck

Denial
- ignore problems or pretend they aren't happening
- pretend circumstances aren't as bad as they are
- tell themselves things will be better tomorrow
- get confused, depressed
- overeat
- watch problems get worse
- believe lies and lie to themselves
- wonder why they feel like they are going crazy

** :sigh: That is a lot. Things are already much better there of course but I need to fix this codependency stuff *for sure*.

Dependency
- often seek love from people incapable of loving
- don't take time to see if other people are good for them
- don't take time to figure out if they like or love other people.
- center their lives around other people
- stay in relationships that don't work
- wonder if they will ever find love

Poor Communication
- blame, bribe, advise,
- don't say what I mean
- don't know what I mean
- think other people don'ttake me seriously
- take myself to seriously
- ask for what I want and need indirectly
- guage my words carefully to acheive desired effect
- try to say what they hope will get people to do what they want them to do.
- avoid talking about myself, my problems, feelings and thoughts
- wait to express my opinions until others express theirs
- lie to protect myself
- difficult time asserting my rights and expressing my emotions

** That is sobering. Overwhelming really to think about the amount of change and new behaviors there are to learn.

Weak Boundaries
- say I won't tolerate certain behaviors but gradually increase my tolerance until I tolerate and do things I never said I would.
- let others hurt me, again and again
- complain, blame, and try to control while they continue to stand there. {that sounds so rediculous but it is so true!}
- I finally became angry and totally intolerant

Lack of Trust
- I do not trust myself, my feelings, my decisions, nor other people.
- try to trust untrustworthy people

Anger
- feel very scared hurt and angry and lived with someone the same
- frightened of other people's anger
- think other people make them feel angry
- have been shamed for feeling angry
- feel increasing amounts of anger, resentment, and bitterness

Sex Problems
- have sex when don't want to
- refuse to enjoy sex because they are so angry
- afraid of losing control
- difficult time asking for what they need
- withdraw emotionally from partner
- feel revulsion towards partner
- don't talk about it.
- force themselves to have sex anyway
- wonder why they don't enjoy it
- lose interest
- wish their partner would die, go away, or sense the codependents feelings

** What a mess

Miscellaneous
- extremely responsible
- find it difficult to feel close to people
- find it difficult to have fun and be spontaneous
- vacillate in decisions and emotions
- confused about the nature of the problem
- not seek help because they tell themselves the problem isn't bad enough

Progressive
- feel lethargic and depressed
- become withdrawn and isolated {very much so}
- feel hopeless
- neglected responsibilities
- began to plan the escape of the relationship


Oh My. I can see why I 'bottomed out' myself. I feel like the only way to continue to live is to change myself yet I'm completely overwhelmed by the task. I feel responsible to my children to change myself. To be a better person and mother, to be a better role model, to show them a healthy person.

Ceres

Yes, Long lister's - Can't wait for the part when we get to look at the GOOD things. ;-)

I think we've done an excellent job thus far!