Faith
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
Faith
Sometimes I feel like I am stuck in my emotions because I am lost spiritually.... literally I feel lost.
I have so many universal questions right now. I think that taking a Philosophy course is certainly creating even more questions at the moment!
But seriously, I read so many comments on here about faith, being guiding by your HP, or God.
I try. I feel like I don't know how to do it anymore.
Anyone who has insight, or experience it would be greatly received and appreciated. This isn't meant to start a debate on faith, not my intention at all. But if you feel comfortable, I would love to know how your faith has helped you through the most difficult of times?
It is so often said that you are where you are for a reason....that your HP would never give to you something that is unhealthy for you, or something that you cannot handle. And there are reasons why you don't get what you want.....
I guess my own doubt and insecurity says... But why does he give something that is supposedly so bad and unhealthy for me, to someone else?? (meaning the ex factor who my XA went back to)
Really that is just a part of what I think about. And there is no concrete answer for a question like that, atleast not at this time.
I've read a few threads tonight where people are feeling conflicting emotions, as do I right now. Hurt, angry, bitter, lost, sympathetic, empathetic....and on and on......
So maybe turning it over to a HP is truly the most healing thing one can do...
But how do you do that, and have faith?
I have so many universal questions right now. I think that taking a Philosophy course is certainly creating even more questions at the moment!
But seriously, I read so many comments on here about faith, being guiding by your HP, or God.
I try. I feel like I don't know how to do it anymore.
Anyone who has insight, or experience it would be greatly received and appreciated. This isn't meant to start a debate on faith, not my intention at all. But if you feel comfortable, I would love to know how your faith has helped you through the most difficult of times?
It is so often said that you are where you are for a reason....that your HP would never give to you something that is unhealthy for you, or something that you cannot handle. And there are reasons why you don't get what you want.....
I guess my own doubt and insecurity says... But why does he give something that is supposedly so bad and unhealthy for me, to someone else?? (meaning the ex factor who my XA went back to)
Really that is just a part of what I think about. And there is no concrete answer for a question like that, atleast not at this time.
I've read a few threads tonight where people are feeling conflicting emotions, as do I right now. Hurt, angry, bitter, lost, sympathetic, empathetic....and on and on......
So maybe turning it over to a HP is truly the most healing thing one can do...
But how do you do that, and have faith?
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PM me
Posts: 324
This is an interesting thread. Its something I've been thinking a lot about lately.
Has anyone read The Shack? I like to believe "God" works in mysterious ways. Although I still am blind with anger for AXBF's choices..I know this is teaching me. It already has.
One thing I NEVER loose faith in..is beauty. I'm an artist, but hope other people can relate. It never ceases to exist. Its complex and an individual experience. I like to believe its God staring at us in the face.
I could be lower than low, but I am never as faithless to as not stop and observe the beauty that surrounds us. Its prayer.
I also believe God speaks through others. What he is saying through the A in my life...I sure as hell hope I learn it soon. Very painful to let go.
Has anyone read The Shack? I like to believe "God" works in mysterious ways. Although I still am blind with anger for AXBF's choices..I know this is teaching me. It already has.
One thing I NEVER loose faith in..is beauty. I'm an artist, but hope other people can relate. It never ceases to exist. Its complex and an individual experience. I like to believe its God staring at us in the face.
I could be lower than low, but I am never as faithless to as not stop and observe the beauty that surrounds us. Its prayer.
I also believe God speaks through others. What he is saying through the A in my life...I sure as hell hope I learn it soon. Very painful to let go.
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Hello Kittyboo, and pleased to "meet" you. And what a wonderful topic
That's exactly how I felt when my whole world fell apart and I ended up in al-anon.
I've had my share of difficult times. From discovering that my ex was running around on me to facing homelessness because my business went broke to being told I have a terminal disease. My faith is what has gotten me thru those, eventually. I go thru my own share of fear and hopelesness before I get my head back on track and my faith back in gear.
That's not the way it works for me. My HP gives me the tools and resources with which to overcome whatever challenges life throws at me. I just don't always _use_ those resources. Having a terminal disease is about as un-healthy as can be, but it's not my HP that gave me that. My terminal disease is just a normal consequence of having bad genes, it's a biological result of the laws of nature.
What my HP gave me is a loving, supporting group of friends that have been by my side thru all my hospitalizations. I have a program of recovery that shows me how to share my fear with others, how to take the correct actions in spite of my fear, and how to enjoy the days I have left without focusing on the days I won't have.
A few years ago I shared about my terminal disease in a meeting. It was the first time I had shared about it and I was terrified of the reaction people would have. People were kind, and loving, and understanding. There was this one newcomer who had been struggling with the program, he's this _huge_ muscle-bound guy like Arnold Schwartzenfurter. He come up to me and told me that he had not believed anybody in the program was being truthful, that it was all a big act, until he heard me share.
It's been years, and today he's one of the pillars of the program out here.
Another guy was an ex-Navy seal. About as macho as they come. Turns out he had a related disease he had not shared about with anybody, and he asked me to sponsor him.
Today I get people asking me about their own terminal diseases on a regular basis. By using the tools of recovery that my HP has given me I have not only helped _me_ deal with this, I'm helping a whole lot of other people too. In turn, they help me.
My HP gave me the opportunity to turn my medical misfortune into a means of reaching out to others in need.
My faith is only about my own relationship with my HP. What other people believe in and how they see their relationship with their HP is none of my business. Faith is such a deeply personal issue, I can't even imagine how I could step in and try to interpret it for somebody else.
For me it's summarized in the "Serenity Prayer". I turn over to my HP those things I cannot control in my life, such as my ex-wife and my terminal disease. I take charge of those things I _can_ control, such as filing for divorce and educating myself about my condition. The wisdom to know the difference I'm still working on. That's where I turn to my sponsor and to other people in recovery that I respect for direction.
I have faith that my HP will help me get thru _anything_ that life throws at me. Some day soon that will include dying. I have this faith because when I look back on my life I see that my HP has _always_ done that for me. My HP does not _change_ my life, he makes it possible for me to overcome it and find joy in it, no matter what.
I have not always taken Him up on what He offered, but it was there none the less.
Mike
Originally Posted by Kittyboo 
...Sometimes I feel like I am stuck in my emotions because I am lost spiritually.... literally I feel lost. ....
Originally Posted by Kittyboo
... I would love to know how your faith has helped you through the most difficult of times?....
Originally Posted by Kittyboo
... .that your HP would never give to you something that is unhealthy for you, or something that you cannot handle.....
What my HP gave me is a loving, supporting group of friends that have been by my side thru all my hospitalizations. I have a program of recovery that shows me how to share my fear with others, how to take the correct actions in spite of my fear, and how to enjoy the days I have left without focusing on the days I won't have.
A few years ago I shared about my terminal disease in a meeting. It was the first time I had shared about it and I was terrified of the reaction people would have. People were kind, and loving, and understanding. There was this one newcomer who had been struggling with the program, he's this _huge_ muscle-bound guy like Arnold Schwartzenfurter. He come up to me and told me that he had not believed anybody in the program was being truthful, that it was all a big act, until he heard me share.
It's been years, and today he's one of the pillars of the program out here.
Another guy was an ex-Navy seal. About as macho as they come. Turns out he had a related disease he had not shared about with anybody, and he asked me to sponsor him.
Today I get people asking me about their own terminal diseases on a regular basis. By using the tools of recovery that my HP has given me I have not only helped _me_ deal with this, I'm helping a whole lot of other people too. In turn, they help me.
My HP gave me the opportunity to turn my medical misfortune into a means of reaching out to others in need.
Originally Posted by Kittyboo
...But why does he give something that is supposedly so bad and unhealthy for me, to someone else?? ....
Originally Posted by Kittyboo
... So maybe turning it over to a HP is truly the most healing thing one can do...
Originally Posted by Kittyboo
... But how do you do that, and have faith?....
I have not always taken Him up on what He offered, but it was there none the less.
Mike
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Anywhere but here...
Posts: 227
Originally Posted by MaryGoRound
Has anyone read The Shack? I like to believe "God" works in mysterious ways. Although I still am blind with anger for AXBF's choices..I know this is teaching me. It already has.
I am a new believer, being saved in 2009. I never had any 'religious' background or upbringing. My parents weren't spiritual, and I think to this day, my mother still holds a grudge against God. And my new faith makes her VERY uncomfortable! Imagine!
I just felt something was missing. I was empty, and I felt like it was time for me to get closer to God. But how to find Him? You can't see Him, you can't touch Him.
That's what faith is. Believing in something you can't see. But knowing, He is always there. He walks with us, and if He brings you to it, He will bring you through it.
God's word will NEVER fail you. He is the Prince of Peace, and in His eyes, I am a beautiful princess. He wants me to prosper, and to have only good in my life. When I have tried to do His work, I have failed miserably! I try to get ahead of Him, and He in his gentle, loving way, was always there, pulling me back.
How do you believe in UNFAILING LOVE? The unfailling love that God promises through Jesus Christ, when HUMAN LOVE FAILS? The answer to that is you can trust it BECAUSE human love fails. God will never forsake you, He walks with you. If you believe, and you have faith, there is nothing God cannot do! For with God, NOTHING is impossible!
When I began walking with Him, and turned my life over to Him, my life changed. I saw the path that was laid out for me, in my darkest hour. He began drawing me close to him in 2008. He knew the end of my relationship with my A was imminent. He led me to a life of debt freedom, so I would be able to leave my addict when it was time to go. He gave me a church that has given me a foundation, because I needed to be closer to Him. He gave me people to surround me and lift me up after I left my A. He never left me, He paved the path, and all I had to do was follow it!
Was it easy? NOPE, cause I thought I knew better. And no matter what happens in your life, you must know that He is only doing good work through you. Why must we suffer such pain, heartache in our lives? Why doesn't God just heal our addict, like we pray so many times? He can, you know. He totally can, but if He did, He takes away our free will.
I am involved in my church now. I go to 3 different bible studies. I am surrounded by loving Christians that have shown me so much kindness, it is hard to imagine there are people like this in the world! I feel blessed, and I know that no matter what the reason is for my pain, He is with me always. I will keep praying for my A, for his salvation. God is the only one that can save him, I'm done doing God's work.
I hope this helps. Faith, when you are a believer, will help you make sense of the craziness in this world. I am so thankful that God is with me. He loves me. He knows my pain. When it gets to be too much, I can turn it all over to Him, and he will carry that burden for me.
What a wonderful Father we have...
Peace and ((HUGS))
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 673
I dunno, Kitty. All I can say from my experience is a little flippant. I keep thinking that God must have thought I needed more character. Hard to imagine, because I think I was born with a full supply. Tee Hee.
Maybe He thinks we are capable, not only of getting through this, but of helping others' with our experience. Perhaps somebody who needs exactly what our experience shows them, or they wouldn't make it through that moment.
Prolly not all that helpful, but they're the thoughts of the moment.
Hugs!
Tigg
Maybe He thinks we are capable, not only of getting through this, but of helping others' with our experience. Perhaps somebody who needs exactly what our experience shows them, or they wouldn't make it through that moment.
Prolly not all that helpful, but they're the thoughts of the moment.
Hugs!
Tigg
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
Personally, I cannot imagine my life without my faith being a major part of it.
Prayer is a daily, sometimes constant part of living for me, especially since I joined SR and have added so many people from this forum, to my prayer list.
I agree with DesertEyes, God doesn't hurt us or give us terminal illness as some test, rather He gives us the tools and ability to handle whatever hard times we face.
Right now, one of my oldest friends, (a fellow nurse and prayer friend), is faced with an aggressive skin cancer that has meant having her forehead and nose nearly all removed.
Her chances of survival are not good.
Her faith and acceptance of this is awe inspiring, and she is comforting those of us who are still shattered at her news.
Some of those I pray for say that "they don't believe in God", but you see I DO, and I believe God believes in them, thus do I pray for them anyway.
Faith and love can keep me going, when all else is black and full of misery.
God bless
Prayer is a daily, sometimes constant part of living for me, especially since I joined SR and have added so many people from this forum, to my prayer list.
I agree with DesertEyes, God doesn't hurt us or give us terminal illness as some test, rather He gives us the tools and ability to handle whatever hard times we face.
Right now, one of my oldest friends, (a fellow nurse and prayer friend), is faced with an aggressive skin cancer that has meant having her forehead and nose nearly all removed.
Her chances of survival are not good.
Her faith and acceptance of this is awe inspiring, and she is comforting those of us who are still shattered at her news.
Some of those I pray for say that "they don't believe in God", but you see I DO, and I believe God believes in them, thus do I pray for them anyway.
Faith and love can keep me going, when all else is black and full of misery.
God bless
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 512
everyone subscribes to a different belief system and/or higher power. personally, i am reading a book Search for Significance by Robert McGee, and it answers many of your questions you posed here at SR, and is christian based.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 566
These posts are great, thought-provoking.
For me, faith is journeying within through meditation (my form of prayer) and discovering the divinity that is within myself. I believe the HP is not only outside of me, He/She/It is within myself. In this way I learn to trust myself and the path that becomes clear when I stay in tune with that Divine connection. It's not that I'm in control--I'm not, and really don't want that responsibility (no matter how often I still try to have control!). But I believe that when I "let go" then I can hear the Divine aspect of myself, and build faith in my ability to access that.
When I'm faithful to my meditation practice, and listening to that Divine centeredness, then I'm doing well. It's when I start to skip a day, or two, or more, that I start to slip and begin to believe that I can control all kinds of things...ugh. Those are the hard days.
I'm still with the A in my life, and there have been times when the only reason I stayed was because during meditation I understood that I needed to stay in the process. Oh, I've wanted to control that, big time!! Now I feel like I'm getting to a more peaceful place for myself. I don't want to have to learn these lessons by choosing this type of relationship again--if I can, I want to learn well now, and move on when I'm ready, having gained a lot more tools.
It's hard to be patient!
For me, faith is journeying within through meditation (my form of prayer) and discovering the divinity that is within myself. I believe the HP is not only outside of me, He/She/It is within myself. In this way I learn to trust myself and the path that becomes clear when I stay in tune with that Divine connection. It's not that I'm in control--I'm not, and really don't want that responsibility (no matter how often I still try to have control!). But I believe that when I "let go" then I can hear the Divine aspect of myself, and build faith in my ability to access that.
When I'm faithful to my meditation practice, and listening to that Divine centeredness, then I'm doing well. It's when I start to skip a day, or two, or more, that I start to slip and begin to believe that I can control all kinds of things...ugh. Those are the hard days.
I'm still with the A in my life, and there have been times when the only reason I stayed was because during meditation I understood that I needed to stay in the process. Oh, I've wanted to control that, big time!! Now I feel like I'm getting to a more peaceful place for myself. I don't want to have to learn these lessons by choosing this type of relationship again--if I can, I want to learn well now, and move on when I'm ready, having gained a lot more tools.
It's hard to be patient!
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
What a wonderful topic!
I am going to think out loud...
My perspective is closer to posies.
I grew up in the UCC church, then went born again, then agnostic, then took a world religions class at the same time as a philosophy class. That moved me closer to spirituality and further from organized religion. I added more Paganism and Taoism. Recently I have been practicing Buddhist meditation.
Changes!
When I started step work, I struggled with the Higher Power idea. Eventually, my mom (who grew up Catholic, raised us in the UCC church, and now attends a Goddess temple) suggested I try Higher, DEEPER, Power (HDP). That's it, for me. That resonates.
My HDP is my Inner Wisdom. I could call it my Inner Crone (wise, older woman). I could call the the part of myself that has the wisdom and sight to make good choices. I could call it my link to the Eternal Wisdom. All I know is that when I tame my fear and ego and listen to that voice, amazing wisdom is there. It is within, but I have to listen and trust that it is there. It is Boundless Love. It may be me. It may something greater IN me. It may be both. To me, that is irrelevant.
What is really REAL or TRUE or RIGHT is not as important to me at this point in my life. I'm not interested in being RIGHT while others, then, are obviously WRONG. I'm not interested in convincing others of my RIGHTNESS or of joining my team. I am interested in my functioning and growth and being in the world.
What is important to me is living a life of love and kindness, of healing and growth and depth.
I think there is Wisdom in many places. Jesus had some powerful things to say. As did Buddha. As did Thoreau and Emerson and John Muir and Edward Abbey and Aldo Leopold and tons of others. I don't mind "taking what I like and leaving the rest" and I bounce it all off my HDP to see if it makes sense.
I think faith is important, but there are many things one can have faith in and create goodness in the world and for oneself. To me, faith is about TRUSTING I am safe and loved and lovable. MY HDP is Boundless Love. When I trust that, it reminds me: I am safe. I am loved. I am lovable. I am enough. I think we need that - something to remind us of that so that we can temper that fear enough to make choices from a place of strength and love.
We are, as humans, so afraid. That fear leads us to make choices that are small. Choices that appear to protect us. The fear limits us. This has been my experience with my AH. I get scared and stop making good choices. I see him doing the same. His addiction, dishonesty, etc. makes me scared and I forget I am safe.
Faith gives me a way to make choices from a different place. The belief that there is a Great Love out there lets me breathe. If I can relax and TRUST that Great Love, I call FALL INTO IT. I can RELAX. I can TRUST. I can stop defending and protecting. I can bring ease and peace. I can have a sense of KNOWING. I am okay. I can stop running and hiding and defending and, instead, make choices of strength.
Two powerful tools I have used to learn to listen and trust that wisdom are Vipassana meditation (Vipassana Meditation Website)
and the Fourm from Landmark Education (Landmark Education: Seminars, Courses & Landmark Forum)
I have found great delight in exploring the spiritual and finding out what resonates with me. I would recommend doing the steps. Here are some resources that I used. Each has a different take on the "Higher Power" concept.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...tep-study.html
Amazon.com: Codependents' Guide to the Twelve Steps (9780671762278): Melody Beattie: Books
Downloads & mp3's from silkworth.net
The Miracle of The Twelve Step Recovery Process
proactive 12 steps online workbook
Here are some resources on different takes on spirituality as it relates to the 12 steps:
Transcendent Spiritual Beings having a human experience
Spirituality - 12 Step Recovery
Here is a smattering of spiritual avenues I have explored:
Vipassana Meditation Website
A Course In Miracles - Foundation for Inner Peace
UUA: Principles
Taoism Initiation Page - Online Teachings for Home Study and Practice
Awakening The Impulse To Evolve
I could go on and on! Thanks for letting me talk out my ideas!
I am going to think out loud...
My perspective is closer to posies.
I grew up in the UCC church, then went born again, then agnostic, then took a world religions class at the same time as a philosophy class. That moved me closer to spirituality and further from organized religion. I added more Paganism and Taoism. Recently I have been practicing Buddhist meditation.
Changes!
When I started step work, I struggled with the Higher Power idea. Eventually, my mom (who grew up Catholic, raised us in the UCC church, and now attends a Goddess temple) suggested I try Higher, DEEPER, Power (HDP). That's it, for me. That resonates.
My HDP is my Inner Wisdom. I could call it my Inner Crone (wise, older woman). I could call the the part of myself that has the wisdom and sight to make good choices. I could call it my link to the Eternal Wisdom. All I know is that when I tame my fear and ego and listen to that voice, amazing wisdom is there. It is within, but I have to listen and trust that it is there. It is Boundless Love. It may be me. It may something greater IN me. It may be both. To me, that is irrelevant.
What is really REAL or TRUE or RIGHT is not as important to me at this point in my life. I'm not interested in being RIGHT while others, then, are obviously WRONG. I'm not interested in convincing others of my RIGHTNESS or of joining my team. I am interested in my functioning and growth and being in the world.
What is important to me is living a life of love and kindness, of healing and growth and depth.
I think there is Wisdom in many places. Jesus had some powerful things to say. As did Buddha. As did Thoreau and Emerson and John Muir and Edward Abbey and Aldo Leopold and tons of others. I don't mind "taking what I like and leaving the rest" and I bounce it all off my HDP to see if it makes sense.
I think faith is important, but there are many things one can have faith in and create goodness in the world and for oneself. To me, faith is about TRUSTING I am safe and loved and lovable. MY HDP is Boundless Love. When I trust that, it reminds me: I am safe. I am loved. I am lovable. I am enough. I think we need that - something to remind us of that so that we can temper that fear enough to make choices from a place of strength and love.
We are, as humans, so afraid. That fear leads us to make choices that are small. Choices that appear to protect us. The fear limits us. This has been my experience with my AH. I get scared and stop making good choices. I see him doing the same. His addiction, dishonesty, etc. makes me scared and I forget I am safe.
Faith gives me a way to make choices from a different place. The belief that there is a Great Love out there lets me breathe. If I can relax and TRUST that Great Love, I call FALL INTO IT. I can RELAX. I can TRUST. I can stop defending and protecting. I can bring ease and peace. I can have a sense of KNOWING. I am okay. I can stop running and hiding and defending and, instead, make choices of strength.
Two powerful tools I have used to learn to listen and trust that wisdom are Vipassana meditation (Vipassana Meditation Website)
and the Fourm from Landmark Education (Landmark Education: Seminars, Courses & Landmark Forum)
I have found great delight in exploring the spiritual and finding out what resonates with me. I would recommend doing the steps. Here are some resources that I used. Each has a different take on the "Higher Power" concept.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...tep-study.html
Amazon.com: Codependents' Guide to the Twelve Steps (9780671762278): Melody Beattie: Books
Downloads & mp3's from silkworth.net
The Miracle of The Twelve Step Recovery Process
proactive 12 steps online workbook
Here are some resources on different takes on spirituality as it relates to the 12 steps:
Transcendent Spiritual Beings having a human experience
Spirituality - 12 Step Recovery
Here is a smattering of spiritual avenues I have explored:
Vipassana Meditation Website
A Course In Miracles - Foundation for Inner Peace
UUA: Principles
Taoism Initiation Page - Online Teachings for Home Study and Practice
Awakening The Impulse To Evolve
I could go on and on! Thanks for letting me talk out my ideas!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
Wow, what amazing thoughts from people.
Mike - your post just extremely powerful, I can't find the words at the moment to express all I am thinking, but I admire you tremendously.
I admire everyone here tremendously.
Wife - I am in a Worlds Religions class a this very moment for Philosophy. It is extremely thought provoking and I am really fascinated by all religions. I too feel more of a connection to spirituality rather than organized religion.
I have not read the book "The Shack", but I am very interested in finding it now!
I have done a lot of thinking about forgiveness. I think that forgiveness quite often goes along with having faith or being spiritual, doing all you can do and giving it over to your HP.
I don't know if I am ready to forgive yet. But I do know that I want to try. I know that I have been plagued with a feeling of anger and pain when I think about all that has happened within the past year.
The pain doesn't go away when I think about forgiveness....but it is a different kind of pain. It's not excrutiating. To me, I can feel a clear difference. This is what makes me believe that the most healing route one can take is forgiveness.
By forgiveness, I certainly don't mean that you let someone back in your life to hurt you consistently. But I feel forgiveness is the only way to move on. To really be able to let go. As long as that anger is there, that is what I hold on to.
I picked up a book a while ago, I started it, but haven't picked it back up in a couple of months. But I want to focus on it.
It is called "The Sunflower".... I was walking in Barnes N Noble one day and it was just the cover that caught my attention, and I couldn't get the question posed on the cover out of my head. I literally got teary in the store while I pondered it....and I had to buy it.
The book is simply about forgiveness. It is a compilation of different points of view on forgiveness from theologians, political leaders, the Dalai Lama, writers, philosophers, etc.
It is opened with a TRUE account of a man who was a prisoner during WWII at a concentration camp in Germany...
The question on the cover of the book is this:
"You are a prisoner in a concentration camp, A dying Nazi soldier asks for your forgiveness, What would you do?"
This man, Simon Weisenthal, was faced with this. The soldier requested to see him while he lay dying....he then asked for forgiveness. Simon stood there, and never gave an answer. The soldier died.
From that point on, this great man Simon, questioned himself about not giving a response. In his heart he felt the right thing to do was to forgive him, but he could not let go of the fact that he never expressed that.
That is one of the most powerful examples I have ever read about forgiveness and the power of it.
I cry whenever I read it!!! I am crying now!
Oh and wife, thank you for all of the links!!
Mike - your post just extremely powerful, I can't find the words at the moment to express all I am thinking, but I admire you tremendously.
I admire everyone here tremendously.
Wife - I am in a Worlds Religions class a this very moment for Philosophy. It is extremely thought provoking and I am really fascinated by all religions. I too feel more of a connection to spirituality rather than organized religion.
I have not read the book "The Shack", but I am very interested in finding it now!
I have done a lot of thinking about forgiveness. I think that forgiveness quite often goes along with having faith or being spiritual, doing all you can do and giving it over to your HP.
I don't know if I am ready to forgive yet. But I do know that I want to try. I know that I have been plagued with a feeling of anger and pain when I think about all that has happened within the past year.
The pain doesn't go away when I think about forgiveness....but it is a different kind of pain. It's not excrutiating. To me, I can feel a clear difference. This is what makes me believe that the most healing route one can take is forgiveness.
By forgiveness, I certainly don't mean that you let someone back in your life to hurt you consistently. But I feel forgiveness is the only way to move on. To really be able to let go. As long as that anger is there, that is what I hold on to.
I picked up a book a while ago, I started it, but haven't picked it back up in a couple of months. But I want to focus on it.
It is called "The Sunflower".... I was walking in Barnes N Noble one day and it was just the cover that caught my attention, and I couldn't get the question posed on the cover out of my head. I literally got teary in the store while I pondered it....and I had to buy it.
The book is simply about forgiveness. It is a compilation of different points of view on forgiveness from theologians, political leaders, the Dalai Lama, writers, philosophers, etc.
It is opened with a TRUE account of a man who was a prisoner during WWII at a concentration camp in Germany...
The question on the cover of the book is this:
"You are a prisoner in a concentration camp, A dying Nazi soldier asks for your forgiveness, What would you do?"
This man, Simon Weisenthal, was faced with this. The soldier requested to see him while he lay dying....he then asked for forgiveness. Simon stood there, and never gave an answer. The soldier died.
From that point on, this great man Simon, questioned himself about not giving a response. In his heart he felt the right thing to do was to forgive him, but he could not let go of the fact that he never expressed that.
That is one of the most powerful examples I have ever read about forgiveness and the power of it.
I cry whenever I read it!!! I am crying now!
Oh and wife, thank you for all of the links!!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
One more link -
40 spiritual speakers will be interviewed by teleseminar. It's free and covers a panoply of spiritual traditions. Check it out!
Sacred Awakening Series | 40 Days with 40 Spiritual Teachers
40 spiritual speakers will be interviewed by teleseminar. It's free and covers a panoply of spiritual traditions. Check it out!
Sacred Awakening Series | 40 Days with 40 Spiritual Teachers
Psalm 118:24
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ILLINOIS
Posts: 15,203
My belief in God was instilled in me at birth. I distanced myself from God for a number of years. I've only been trying to develop my faith again.
I have a firm belief that, God's in control. I have to do what I believe to be right for that to work and step out of the way and let him work.
2 Corinthians 5:7
I was raised a Christian. I read in the bible of Christ feeding thousands of people with a couple loaves of bread and a few fish and people still doubted. Thomas doubted until, he ran his fingers through the holes from the spikes in Jesus's palms.
I also believe, nothing helps me to have happiness except to be of service to others. We can all be part of the problem in life or part of the solution.
Years ago I was first getting sober. I had this habit of picking up pennies off the ground. I'd pick them up and read In God We Trust. This keeps me humble by bending over to pick up that coin and a reminder. A while after I started this practice, I'd went to a football game at the U of I in IL. to watch a football game. Everyone was drinking and I felt uncomfortable. I sat there wishing I could find a penny. At half time, I got up to go get a soda. When, I came back to my seat, there was a penny laying there in my seat. I didn't have any change in my pockets at all. Was that a miracle? Maybe it wasn't like parting the Red Sea but, it sure was a comfort to me.
Pray and believe it's not that hard to do.
I have a firm belief that, God's in control. I have to do what I believe to be right for that to work and step out of the way and let him work.
2 Corinthians 5:7
I was raised a Christian. I read in the bible of Christ feeding thousands of people with a couple loaves of bread and a few fish and people still doubted. Thomas doubted until, he ran his fingers through the holes from the spikes in Jesus's palms.
I also believe, nothing helps me to have happiness except to be of service to others. We can all be part of the problem in life or part of the solution.
Years ago I was first getting sober. I had this habit of picking up pennies off the ground. I'd pick them up and read In God We Trust. This keeps me humble by bending over to pick up that coin and a reminder. A while after I started this practice, I'd went to a football game at the U of I in IL. to watch a football game. Everyone was drinking and I felt uncomfortable. I sat there wishing I could find a penny. At half time, I got up to go get a soda. When, I came back to my seat, there was a penny laying there in my seat. I didn't have any change in my pockets at all. Was that a miracle? Maybe it wasn't like parting the Red Sea but, it sure was a comfort to me.
Pray and believe it's not that hard to do.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In the barn
Posts: 324
I think the HP concept can be difficult for many people, especially those who either weren't brought up in a particular faith or those who have had a schism with their particular church.
Personally, I broke with Christianity for a long number of years until I read a wonderful book by Donald Miller called "Searching for God Knows What." Many things in that book really spoke to me and helped me to realize that it wasn't God I had a problem with, it was dogma, and that my relationship with God existed entirely separate from that. I had been hurt and disappointed by PEOPLE all of my life, but never by God.
That said, even my atheist STBX who is now in recovery work has told me that he has found his own HP as well. I have not asked him to give me more information, that's his own personal business and if he wants to share it with me he will.
I don't think you have to have a HP to begin 12 step recovery work. There are also 12-step programs that are secular in nature and can be very helpful as well. IMO, spirituality is a very individual journey. I can only tell you how I believe and how I feel, but I cannot expect you to follow in my footsteps.
I think that if you spend time meditating on your spiritual beliefs, perhaps reading some of the literature that is out there, eventually you will discover what it is you believe.
Personally, I broke with Christianity for a long number of years until I read a wonderful book by Donald Miller called "Searching for God Knows What." Many things in that book really spoke to me and helped me to realize that it wasn't God I had a problem with, it was dogma, and that my relationship with God existed entirely separate from that. I had been hurt and disappointed by PEOPLE all of my life, but never by God.
That said, even my atheist STBX who is now in recovery work has told me that he has found his own HP as well. I have not asked him to give me more information, that's his own personal business and if he wants to share it with me he will.
I don't think you have to have a HP to begin 12 step recovery work. There are also 12-step programs that are secular in nature and can be very helpful as well. IMO, spirituality is a very individual journey. I can only tell you how I believe and how I feel, but I cannot expect you to follow in my footsteps.
I think that if you spend time meditating on your spiritual beliefs, perhaps reading some of the literature that is out there, eventually you will discover what it is you believe.
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