iwantcontrol

I’m still feeling good about accepting that he is an active alcoholic and that it isn’t anything to do with me why he drinks or if he chooses to stop drinking, but he manages to wind me up so much with his lies and his take on ‘how well he is doing’.

I’m feeling so annoyed with him and myself – he manages to suck me in to asking him if he’s doing the things he promised he’d do to get better, and once i’ve asked, I’m nagging and making him angry etc etc. It seems like its all my fault for daring to ask if he’s doing anything productive. But it’s my own fault for asking I guess – the only reason i did ask is because i kind of thought he was sober, but his responses were that of him when he’s drinking. It’s that in between stage where you’re not quite sure if you’re imagining it or not – but my gut tells me he’s drinking. When he’s sober his responses to those questions are a little different.

I’m still proud of myself for not being too surprised or affected by it - I am still very annoyed but i’m trying not to let it consume me. Although i’m so concerned by his behaviour – he seems completely out of control right now and is lying all the time, and i’m very worried about his mental state. I have this feeling that something bad is going to happen. He is confused when he speaks to me, can barely hold a conversation and forgets what we’ve said a few minutes ago. It is a combination of alcohol and his depression and not all down to just drink, so how can I just leave him to it? I’m scared he’ll hurt someone or himself. He’s only getting worse. I think I am becoming more emotionally detached but i’m still so worried. I feel I need to do something to help him, but know there probably isn’t anything i can do.

stella27

The common term for what he is doing is called "picking a fight." He wants the old dynamic back - the one where you nag him and lecture him and then he gets to blow up at you. He is floundering in new territory so he has to draw you back into the old dnamic - where he gets to bully you and justify his drinking.

I honestly think it is a sign that you are changing. And he likes you the way you were - all tied up in his craziness.

and by the way: unless you are a psychaitrist, I doubt that you are qualified to say what is going on with him psychologically. It is simply not your job and you are not qualified to do it anyway. Reallyreallyreally.

iwantcontrol

I guess i just need to keep going with my emotional detaching. I have been calm with him when he has called, despite knowing he’s drinking and lying. I admit i’ve asked him if he’s done the things he promised to start getting better (after he successfully goaded me) but I haven’t cried or shouted at him like i usually would so i’m proud of myself, even if it is incredibly slow progress. I doubt he’s even noticed yet that i’m behaving differently – to him, at soon as i mention rehab or counselling or alcohol he immediately thinks i’m nagging and gets annoyed at me. When we’ve spoken today he barely understood the concept of a conversation and just started talking about random stuff. That gets me annoyed but i’ve still not resorted to shouting etc. He does make me wanna scream and hit things though! God, he is the most frustrating person.
I still feel bad for leaving him in this mess and i hope he stays safe and doesn’t do anything stupid. Part of me still wants to rush round there and make sure he doesn’t, but i’m not doing that.

stella27

And don't forget that it takes A LONG TIME for his mind to straighten out after all this drinking. Months. And then he still has all the thinking processes and (non)coping behaviors that he has cultivated over years of drinking. These don't become undone.

These conversations about his drinking and his recovery shouldn't be happening at all. Don't have them.

If you do, do not expect that he is suddenly going to grasp your ideas and get on board. he isn't. he doesn't want to. and he's not capable.

re-read your last post:
So he throws a tantrum and part of you wants to run over there and be his whipping post? So he can direct all his rage and fury at you? I don't think so. Keep your distance.

Serenebynow

Hi Control, I can relate to your words.my Dry Alcoholic boyfriend still medicated himself with prescriptions and marijuana. I keep seeing him as an immature 12 year old boy, getting high with the guys and making a decision that he was going to love that high forever. Where i get stuck is his problem. But I want him to grow up, give up his various means of coping ( not coping) and find sobriety! This may or not happen, but regardless, I need to change. I'm looking at my side of the street, and it needs some work. I see his side of the street, and sometimes, it's easy to let go of his crap, but I gotta focus on mine? Argh. One day at a time. I at least have mtgs I can attend and forums I can read and share on. I get on my iPhone and read, listen to mtgs., etc. I've found it to be a wonderful tool for me. So why should I be pissed when my 50 year old bf gets on his and plays video games? Hmmph! I can focus on my recovery, stay in my own hulahoop, and let go of my worries concerning his emotional, physical, and spirtual health,! Choosing instead to give those worries to my hp to give to his hp ! It is so hard sometimes, but I keep coming back, making little steps, and you know, it is working, I have more serenity than I ever knew before I worked my program.

jennabe

I'm way behind you, but I think I can relate to what you are saying. I think the only difference is that you/he have gotten to the point where it is time for you to detach.

For me it's like a doubled edge sword. I can be quite and sit back and not let his drinking and smoking cause a reaction in me. Unfortunately, this will build resent and we wind up in divorce.

Or I can shout and beg him to change and cry, but then he resents me and we wind up in divorce.

A catch 22.

MissFixit

HI,

I can relate to much of what you wrote. The confused thinking, lying about everything (even insignificant things like what he ate for breakfast) can really stump us. With distance I have learned that engaging with someone like this and expecting a logical conversation is like "going to to the hardware store for bread." It won't happen. He won't be logical or make sense and you will make YOURSELF crazy in the process of trying to figure him out. There is no figuring him out. He is sick.

When I got to the point (and I still struggle) when I accept that he is sick and won't make sense, then I can start to detach. There is NOTHING that I can do. This (I think) is why many people leave active A's. It isn't that we don't love them or don't want to help them, but we come to understand that we CAN'T help them and trying to help them hurts both them and us. I think it's part of the we cannot control them theme.

It sounds like you are still engaging with him and expecting or hoping for him to act differently. He lies. He has proven that. You cann't make him stop lying. He has to be the one to do that. Doesn't matter what his mental state is. You cann't control that. He is an adult. He might be putting himself in a risky mental place, but he is an adult. If he chooses to drink, lie, sleep around, drive drunk, kill himself or do any of a thousand unhealthy things, those are HIS choices. They are none of your business. If you set boundaries with him that relate to those things and he crosses your boundary, then you can choose to take action. What that action is is up to you.

I have been where you are and it sucks. I would never go back there again. I gave my exA 1000's of chances because I so desperately loved him and wanted us to work out. I thought that if I could bend to his ways or somehow compromise myself then things would be okay. Doesn't work that way. His words meant nothing in the end and he was going to do what he wanted to do. He would just lie to me and everyone on the planet to cover his a**. When he left me for a hard drinking woman, I was devastated and could not believe it. She was willing to do the one thing that I was not willing to do, play along with his game(drink with him and not give him s***). Now he lies to her and is probably making her crazy.

They don't change unless they want to change. Right now, your man doesn't want to change. It sounds like you are struggling to accept him as he is and still thinking he might be different. He isn't changing right now. You sound like you don't like being lied to. I don't either, and in my experience staying with someone who repeatedly lies to me makes me feel lowly, crazy, hurt, insecure and embarrassed. I don't like feeling those ways, so I now distance myself from people who lie to me. They can lie if they want to, I am not in charge of them, but I can CHOOSE whether or not to keep them close to me or even in my life at all.

We all have to make our own choices, but with those choices come consepquences. Accepting those consequences helps me to really live in reality and understand better what my motives are.

CAPTAINZING2000

I have a question, are you two living together?

iwantcontrol

we don't live together and i have some things to occupy my mind but i think i'd probably send most of my time being lonely if we weren't together, even if i did have other things to do. Busy at work but trying to digest what you have all said, thanks.

nodaybut2day

hi iwantcontrol...

it sounds like you are really working hard, examining yourself and congratulating your progress. This is all good stuff!

I understand the guilt you feel. I think it comes from years of feeling responsible for someone who never took responsibility for himself. The only thing that helped me was repeating to myself that my X is the one who got himself where he was, not me. If your boyfriend falls apart, it'll be his fault. He made the mess of his life; it is on him to clean it up, or not. Whatever happens--more year of ever-worsening alcoholism, job loss, loss of family/friends, homelessness, health problems, etc, you can't prevent it.

All you can do is step back and trust in HP to take care of him. It's SO. DARN. HARD. I know.

Learn2Live

So he has all this power over you to MAKE you think, feel, and do these things? Really? And one or the other of you HAS to be blamed for all of eachother's behavior? And it is all his fault that you lose control over yourself, scream at him or whatever, and otherwise behave badly?

stella27

When you put it like that, L2L, it doesn't sounds like much fun!

lately I have been thinking (after reading extensively on SR) that we are all operating under some delusion that "relationships are hard work and require us to try absolutely everything before moving on."

And while I think that would be an ideal philosophy in a marriage with children, in my opinion:

IT JUST DOES NOT APPLY TO DATING RELATIONSHIPS.
Dating is a trying-out period.
Try it out, see how you like him or her.
What would he or she be like to live with?

or it's the chance to spend time with someone nice and fun, doing things you enjoy, that make you happy.

If we are having to work so hard on a dating relationship, what should we be realizing?

iwantcontrol

no, its not all his fault, i know it is my choice to react that way but it is his actions that cause my reaction - i do take responsibility but it is hard to write it in any other way. I feel like this becuase of what he has done or not done. I think it would be weird and impossible to go throught life not reacting to things that happen.

nodaybut2day - thanks, i do feel like i'm making some progress. the emotional detachment is really starting to work but that doesn't mean i'm not worried or bothered by his actions.

sometimes when people on here tell their stories of living with an active A for years and the things they've done, i wonder how anyone could live with that - i'd be an emotional wreck if i had to live with him at the moment and if he was driving drunk etc. I guess its progressive though - i hope i'm not on here in 10 years time in an even worse situation

LaTeeDa

It's not about blame at all (self or others). It's about recognizing your power and taking it back.

And how is anyone supposed to do that if no one is allowed to point out they are giving their power away?

L

stella27

Honey, of course his words and actions bother you.
My stbxh's words and actions bother me, too.
But we don't engage with each other and therefore it has diminished by 98%.
Since I can't trust myself not to react to him in a way that leaves me churning and troubled and anxious, I choose to LIMIT my engagement with him.
I know how he is, so that is MY choice to make.
I don't like feeling blamed, upset, offended, scared.
It keeps me from being a good mom.
It keeps me from running a peaceful household.
It prevents me from sleeping well at night.
It makes me want to curl up into a ball and hibernate.
It makes me doubt myself.
I sstart to feel unattractive and unlovable.

So can you see why I wouldn't seek out a conversation with him?
And why when we do converse, I keep it factual and limited to the matters at hand?
There have been a few times when he has raged at me, and I have said (while shivering in my boots, scared, hurt, alone, angry and vulnerable):
"I am asking you to leave now. It's time for you to go.
Stop insulting me, you have to go."

and he left (he wasn't living here). He was deflated and confused by my unwillingness to engage.

But I had to dis-engage to maintain my sanity and take care of my #1 priority (me) so that I could then apply the oxygen mask to priorites #2, 3, and 4, my children.

So it IS your choice.

Learn2Live

NO ONE but OURSELVES can control how we feel or think, what we say or do. NO ONE. To think or believe otherwise is to blame. Blame is a mechanism we use to avoid reality, i.e., remain in denial. We can blame others, or we can blame ourselves, when in reality there is NO ONE to blame.

Take it easy? That WAS easy. They are merely questions for iwantcontrol to think about. When I am harsh and judgmental, I interpret others as harsh and judmental. What are you? It's all about perspective.

P.S. My name is not "Jesus"

Bolina

Responsibility = the ability to respond.

With practice, it is possible to put a pause between the stimulus and the response.

iwantcontrol

lavash - thanks, i do feel like im making progress and i appreciate your encouragement. i am really new to all this and am doing the best i can even though i often feel like i'm drowning in it all!

stella - i see what you're saying about dating relationships and the fact that they shouldn't be so hard - i thought that too and i often wonder how my relationship actually got to this stage and where the fun went. I know it is possible to have healthy relationships, and i hope mine will become one too. I'm working on myself, trying to support and encourage my ABF where i can (as in a 'normal' relationship) and trying to let go when i need to. I know i'll falter along the way but i still feel like i've made a small breakthrough this week

Bernadette

from lavash:All this self blame that Al Anon teaches is AS unhealthy as blaming others.


AlAnon does not teach self-blame. At least no AlAnon that I've ever attended over the last 15 years!!

keep at it iwantcontrol - struggling with this stuff is the "work." Easy does it. Deep breathing. And have a little plan for yourself!
peace-b

Learn2Live

You may find it healthier for you to not only recognize and acknowledge what is going on with the addict/alcoholic, but also to recognize and acknowledge what is going on with you. Have you tried Al-Anon yet?

When we seek Recovery, we learn to identify those old, unhealthy ways of thinking that keep us STUCK in the same relationship over and over again. What my questions were pointing out to you were ways of thinking that ALL of us have been trapped in, no more, no less.

Right, it DOES feel and seem weird at first. But it is FAR from impossible and actually recommended. One of the first things we learn in the Program is to STOP REACTING. We begin to see how our automatic and ingrained habit of reacting to others keeps us mired in the disease; keeps us on the crazy rollercoaster. When we seek a more manageable life, when we CHOOSE to no longer live in the insanity, we can take the steps we need to take toward a HEALTHIER life.

I hope not too. Try to start seeing how you use blame in your interpersonal relationships (don't beat yourself up about it, just SEE it). Then ask yourself, where does blame get you? Observe how using blame keeps you mired in the sickness.