gneiss

I'm totally stressing out. I usually post on Secular Connections but I realized this might be a better forum for this one.

I quit doing meth about 8 months ago. From people I've talked to about it, it really takes 18 months or more for it to quit playing with your mind on a daily basis.

So here's the problem: I had a friend call me about 4:00 and I think he was drunk; in fact I'm sure of it because he would never ask me to get drugs with him unless he was drunk. He was trying to get me to go to his house and do dope with him, insisting he had cash to give me when I got there with the drugs (I've heard that before though. It's never true). So I asked him to send a picture of the money to my cell phone if he really wanted it and he never replied and his phone started going straight to voice mail (knowing him, he probably thought if he turned off his phone and pretended he never got the message I would still show up with the drugs. Or his phone ran out of battery because he's horrible about charging it and is a drunk phone talker). Before that he was very mean about it, basically verbally bullying me into getting drugs for him.

This is so hard for me. First of all, I won't lie: I liked doing dope, it was fun. It just wasn't worth the consequences. And I haven't been clean that long; it still is a pretty powerful draw. Of all the people I did drugs with, he's the only one I just can't write off. We were friends before we did drugs and he's one of my best friends. We've been through so much together; he completely changed my life and I can't and won't give up on him. The problem is he's manipulative and mean when he's drunk (this is why he quit drinking, but clearly he's drinking at least tonight, and I suspect for a week or so). So this makes for a rocky friendship when this sort of thing happens. He'll tell me we aren't friends if I don't do it and I tell him if that's true we weren't friends anyway and the next morning he calls to apologize and I cry about how he has to stop doing this and pull himself together, etc. You get the point. I've never cried over someone so much; I've always walked away from people who were this much trouble but I just can't do it. I've tried and we always get pushed back together somehow. He has so much potential to be an amazing person, he has a great heart and he's overcome so much to achieve what he has-- and now he's throwing it away for drugs for the 2nd time. I saw it when I first got to know him, he was so driven and positive and wanted to do the right thing. We're both geologists so we'd compete with each other on exams or get a little drunk and argue about how old his fossil sea urchin is. Just silly stuff that made us better geologists and better people; we always pushed each other to be better. And now he pushes me to buy drugs and I have to push myself not to. I always feel like I'm on the edge of an abyss. I realize if I just walked away from him it wouldn't be a problem but I don't want to. It breaks my heart to watch him do this over and over again though. And it's not easy to stay clean with him calling me up like that either. We kind of enabled each other and it's really hard to adjust our friendship when he still expects me to buy drugs.

I hope it gets better; he keeps trying to clean up and keeps going back. I hope he survives it and stays out of prison. But, as I told myself tonight to stay strong and not let him bully me into it, I have to look out for myself first. I can't buy him drugs because I'll take drugs if I do. I can't buy him drugs because he doesn't have the money he promises he has. I can't buy him drugs because he's my friend and I don't want him to ruin his life like that. But I can't help him aside from that. I know he's better than this though, I know I can expect so much more from him.

So maybe there's not anything for anyone say about that, or maybe there is. I'm just so frustrated with wanting to think this time he can do it and getting disappointed. Thanks for letting me rant.

sofacat

What would your sponsor advise you about having an active addict as a friend?
Do you think it is wise to be around an active addict so new into your recovery?
Or at all for that matter?
Is this friendship worth your life over?

Sounds like he has absolutely no regard for your sobriety, and why should he?
He's drug seeking and he needs you to "go" with him.

You know addiction is progressive and relapse can be fatal.
I don't think this is a friend to you at all. Friends don't put you in harms way deliberately for their own gain. This person may be just as much a habit to you as substances were.

You did post in the right place. Lots of people will come along soon to help.

~Congratulations on your sobriety.

Live

hi, friend!

If he is your friend then he would not want to jeapordize your hard won sobriety time for his selfish means. You are going to have to place some protective boundaries around yourself.
You could get arrested for buying him (and/or yourself) anything illegal. That would be quite the disaster!
Please speak to him about your NEEDS..this isn't just a preference..you NEED to stay clean for your health, happiness and welfare..for your future.
You may want to place limits on the kind of time and where, when etc you are together.
I don't accept drunken phone calls, for example. I don't yell or blame the 2 friends I have who have done this..I just get off the phone. I am no fun and so they call someone else. (sorry! someone else LOL)
It is best to make it about yourself.
We cannot control what another person does or doesn't do. If he wants to get clean, then he will have a sober friend in you and a role model.
It sounds like this is flirting with fire.

Live

teke

hi,
sorry about your situation. imo, you buying him drugs will only help him to stay active and it puts you in danger. i vote, stay strong, and regardless of what he says, don't help him to kill himself by buying his drugs. i'm almost sure he'll appreciate you more once he finds his way out, i know thats how its was for me, anyway.

shockozulu

Since you are posting here in FFSA I'm going to tell you what I'd tell any other poster who put this here, regardless of our history in Secular.

I lost C, a friend of mine, to an OD when someone did what your friend is asking of you.

Not only did I lose a friend, but also saw what his friend has gone through, knowing he was the one who supplied C with the drugs.

You don't want to be in that position.

gneiss

Alera, that thought is very heavy in my mind and is one of the main reasons I don't buy him drugs. Seriously, if I bought him--or anyone-- drugs and he OD'd... I'd probably kill myself. I just couldn't handle it.

I didn't buy him drugs and I don't want to. I just hate watching him go through this over and over. It's frustrating because I know he can do it, he knows he can do it. But he keeps messing up.

Thanks.

I have a good idea what a sponsor would say though I don't do AA/NA. That would be to stay away from him. But I also know how much I needed a friend who knew what I was going through when I quit (not that it has to be me, but if he needs actual help staying clean I won't say no). He lives 150 miles away at the moment, which is good as it provides the distance I need to make my own life and stay clean. It makes it just inconvenient enough to be a deterrent. It never worked when he lived here; the manipulation is a lot more evident over the phone and it's also a lot easier to tell him to F off when he's not standing right in front of me.

I think you're wrong about him not being my friend. I believe 100% that he is my friend, but we're both addicts. It doesn't mean he doesn't care, it means his brain isn't normal, and neither is mine (though I think mine is somewhat more normal-- i.e. his addiction is stronger--... although that's kinda like being the tallest midget, I guess). I know very well that horrible feeling of wanting to do the right thing but not being able to force yourself out of your current path. You know you're hurting people, and you hate yourself for it but you do it anyway.

I was decently prepared for the end of my chemical dependency, I learned what to expect from myself and my moods and emotions. I wasn't prepared for the fallout with the people I know though, especially the ones who still use. Every last one of them says they want to stop. Few of them try. Fewer succeed. He did it once before and was clean for about 5 years. He's been clean and sober for at least 6 weeks prior to this, he's working on it and that's what makes it possible for me to stick around.

I feel like I'm always re-evaluating things. "Is this worth being friends still?" The answer has, a few times, been no. And I cut contact with him. He cleaned up and we started talking again. Sometimes I think part of the problem is we've been through so much together. There's all this other stuff that can distract from staying clean and doing the right thing.

I also have another friend who just went into the hospital tonight and I guess he has an antibiotic-resistant infection that has spread to his brain. He's really not in good shape. I know the stuff with the druggie friend is passing, it'll be better in the morning when he sobers up and remembers why he needed to stop drinking. But it's kinda the last straw as far as what I could take without a rant.

shockozulu

gneiss, sorry that you have to see your friend in that place. I saw C there many times over twenty-five years. If you knew what he could have lost you'd be shocked, yet he still used. He asked me to use with him at one point. We both were in a sport that required mandatory drug testing. I didn't use, he cheated the tests from what I heard.

C's brain wasn't normal, he was bi-polar. His last night alive he took his medication. For some reason I believe it stopped working.

However, there is a point where I couldn't put myself through his drug use anymore. As close as we were for a number of years, there gets to be a point where the relationship was no longer good for me. At first it really hurt, but over time as I distanced myself it came to me how much better I felt for not being involved in his drama.

Sorry for going on like this, for certain reasons he has been in my thoughts the last two days. Anyway, this is my experience, strength, and hope.

gneiss

The predictable happened. He called and apologized, didn't remember what he'd said to me (I offered to fill in the details), and said he was glad I stayed home. And he did not have the money he promised he had (I'd thank my intuition but it's not that good. I'm just used to his lies when he's drunk and know better).

He did bring up something I've noticed about my family and other using friends have observed about their families. Basically, we're the bad guys now. We can't do anything right. Sure, he'll be the first to say he shouldn't have been out drinking. But why does it make him a bad person? There are other people in his family that go out and get wasted on a regular basis and they're jerks when they're drunk and everyone writes it off. "Well good for her, she needed to blow off some steam." They do the same thing he did but everyone thinks it's ok for them.

My family does it, too. I'm a bad person because I drank (they don't know about the meth and other drugs). I have a cousin who, last time we got together, drank every bit as much as I did, matched me glass for glass. Only he did it after taking about 3 Lortabs. I'm not saying he doesn't legitimately need some pain meds, he has a very painful medical condition. But after talking to him it's obvious to me (because I've done it myself enough to recognize the behavior) that he takes those meds because he LIKES them. Pain management, at this point, is secondary to getting wasted. He's got everyone fooled into feeling sorry for him. This might be a little messed up but in a way it makes me feel a little better about it. At least I'm an honest addict. When my family rags on me about how much I used to drink (of course to them, in their minds, it's still happening even though they haven't seen me touch alcohol in a year) I've quit defending myself because there's no point. I don't drink anymore, but they are convinced I do. I just tell them to stay out of my life. When they start paying my bills maybe they can tell me how to live; until then it's not their business. It's the same attitude I had when I was using but I just quit caring because it'll never change.

Chino

I overheard a phone call my 22 year old RAD received from a recently relapsed 'friend' with her DOC in hand, asking if she wanted to party. I can't type her response because it would be all asterisks. After she got done screaming and hung up, she cried so hard then blocked his number. She survived another trigger and all I can do is pray she continues, one day at a time.

Please protect and put yourself first, gneiss.

Impurrfect

((Gneiss)) - I had to walk away from my XABF because he kept using. I have a friend/coworker who has a history of using/selling the same DOC. As long as he is clean, we have no problem. The first time I realized he was acting "off" at work, I distanced myself and he soon lost his job and ended up in jail. He's clean again, and we talk but he knows that I will NOT be around if he's using.

I've got almost 3 years clean, and the more time between me and my DOC, the less I want to spend time with people who continue to choose that lifestyle...no matter how close we were. Yes, I can still be cordial to them, if need be, but I seem to have outgrown some people.

Oh, and as for the ex? He died in Dec. Some never do "get it", sadly. Broke my heart, but I knew there was nothing I could have done to stop it. It could have been me, right along with him - we always did stuff together.

As far as your family seeing you as the "bad kid", I was actually the GOOD kid until I really screwed THAT up with a crack addiction, then I couldn't do much of anything right. Now, I hear my 16-year-old niece say she's tired of trying of being compared to me, and being lacking (because I guess I'm the "good" one again). Ya know what? As long as we're comfortable with ourselves, it really DOESN'T matter what others think of us.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

hello-kitty

I have a friend who is a chronic relapser and I have an ex boyfriend who is a chronic relapser and the father of my child. Both of them know better (be it love or greed or whatever) than to involve me in their active use of drugs. I'm so grateful for that. Watching them waste their lives is horrible but it is what it is and I can't change their choices. But allowing myself to be sucked in would be even worse.

I've distanced myself from people who use drugs. I value leading a clean drug free life and it's one of my personal boundaries.

I do not want drugs in my life. Therefore if you use drugs, you cannot be in my life.

(That doesn't mean I don't care about you. But I care about you from a distance. And I wish you luck.)

gneiss

All correct, and all things I told him when he called this morning. He can't keep doing this or I won't be around him. Asking me to buy him drugs was annoying, and not something I was tempted to do. It's bullying me and being mean that really ticked me off. I could have yelled and screamed at him when he was drunk but it wouldn't have done any good; he wouldn't have remembered it this morning anyway, so why waste my time? I've been down that road, I've blistered his ears and it doesn't help.

I told him I want to be his friend but if I get drunken phone calls like that our friendship won't last. He's told me so many times I'm the best friend he's ever had and he wants to be friends for the rest of our lives so if that's true he needs to act right. Otherwise leave me alone. He said he'd do better. I hope he does.

sofacat

"He can't keep doing this or I won't be around him."
..."I told him I want to be his friend but if I get drunken phone calls like that our friendship won't last."


Sounds like you have started establishing some boundaries for yourself with him.

That's excellent!

Carol Star

It scares me you don't have an AA or NA program. In Va. we say don't go in a barbershop if you don't want a haircut.

gneiss

This is totally from my experience and I'm in no way trying to offend anyone, but AA/NA scares me. My experience there was basically with a bunch of Bible-thumping rednecks. "Jesus will cure you." Moot point as I don't believe in God or Jesus or any of that. And I've heard many times that God doesn't have to be your HP but try telling that to a room full of people who have already told you you're going to hell. I thought I could be accepted among addicts and instead I felt like an outcast. Well, except for the guy that hit on me. That was just uncomfortable.

I realize this is a 12-step forum but I thought maybe some friends and family would be able to give me some perspectives, which is why I posted here. And that's happened and I appreciate it. Sorry if I picked the wrong place.

hello-kitty

You didn't pick the wrong place. And even if you did, that would be no reason to be sorry. Different things work for different people.

For me staying away from the people, places and things that I connected with drugs was HUGE in my recovery.

Sorry you had a bad experience with AA/NA. Not everyone does - and not all AA/NA groups are full of bible thumpers. I found many many helpful insights in the program when I was seeking recovery. The steps helped me a lot (I think they are a good guide for life in general) and not one of them is about accepting Jesus or telling people they are going to hell. Also dating within your recovery group is strongly frowned upon. Too bad a few bad apples spoiled it for you.

Glad you are staying clean though. Glad you are working on letting go of a person who could be a negative influence and doesn't have the same values as you.

And definitely stay away from the barbershop. :-)

leelee5675

Please also consider the fact that you could actually be delaying your friend's recovery by maintaining your relationship with him. I know it sounds crazy on the surface, but from all I've read and experienced with addictive behavior, most addicts don't go into long-term recovery until they've lost all things that are important to them and they no longer have a "soft place to fall".

I spent years "rescuing" my daughter. I thought if I was always there for her, she would appreciate it, learn something and not repeat the same mistakes. But as you said, addicts don't think like sober people. What she learned was she could just keep making the same mistakes because mom would be there to bail her out. It wasn't until I told her I could take no more and she was on her own that she went into rehab and admitted she had a problem.

Please ignor any comments that may make you feel you came to the wrong place. You are at the right site for the info and feedback that you needed. You are also in the right forum. You wanted perspective from friends and family and you got that. I post in different forums on this site, depending on what my issue is at the time. (I'm both a grown child of an alcoholic and the parent of an addict)

Please keep us posted and feel free to vent anytime.

Insulated

As my D-ABF said, A true friend would encourage sobriety, not deliver the devil to my door.

gneiss

Yes, the very definition of codependency there. We went through many months of that sort of behavior, on both sides. I realized it when I started seeing myself in all the codies on Intervention (yeah, don't ask me why I started liking that. No explanation). And that's why he's still doing this, I think: He's used to it, expects it even. I just have to keep saying no until he gets the point. I won't buy him drugs, he can't "borrow" money, etc. He's starting to get it a little bit, which is why he calls once he's sober to thank me for not getting him drugs (that wasn't always the case). If I had to guess he's got more of an alcohol problem than a meth problem; but once he's drunk he thinks meth would be a good idea.

I have another friend who has been clean for 12-ish years. And the best thing he did for me was always answer the phone or return my texts. But if I started talking about wanting drugs (in the context of either seriously considering it or already had, as opposed to talking myself out of it) he'd hang up and not answer again for a couple days. The message was clear though: "I won't talk to you and you won't have my support if you use." But if I want to yak about how much I won't do it, he'd be on the phone with me until 3:00 am. Good plan.