Elsie

I last posted about my ABF telling me that during the time he told me he was sober, he had drank on 9 different occasions. This time frame was from January 01 of this year until this past Thursday.(I think it was thursday)

When he first told me he had drank a bit, I was kind of like "Ok...he slipped once or twice, lets get past this" but them he said it was NINE times and I got that 'punched in the gut' feeling. I felt like someone pulled the chair out from under me, I had been lied to! Again!

This time it pushed me over the edge. No matter how I tried, every scenario I thought of involved him telling me he didn't drink and my first thought was "I don't believe you"
I know that if he was home alone every night (we do not live together) and the next day he mentioned that he didn't drink, I wouldn't believe him anymore.
I can't live like that! I know the whole co-dependancy thing, and distance myself and, focus on myself and not him or what he's doing....forget it.
He intended to one day move in with me, or to have us get a house together...I asked him "What was your big plan? To keep drinking anyway, making me believe you were sober until we got a house and then start sneaking drinks, or just start outright drinking again?"
He never answered that question. He said he knew he screwed up.

I am tired of being lied to! The trust is gone!
Not to mention that it wouldn't be fair to him, for me to constantly look at him with doubt, and not trust anything he said to me.

So anyway....I broke up with him. I don't feel sad. I feel a sense of relief.

I keep reminding myself that when he became sober in Januray I old myself "If he drinks again, I'm out of here"

He needs to focus on himself, he needs to get well. I feel like I'd be squashing his efforts if I stick around everytime he 'falls off the wagon'

Now after typing this all out I feel like I'm giving up, and abanoning him....or maybe it's a pang of guilt from the email he just sent me.....
Can anyone make sense of this?

"I must get this off my chest or it will bother me until my dying day.

3, three years, all three years I have supported you, loved you, carried you, done all I know for you. I really did my best. Of course there were low points, not all life is going to be high points. And I know for a long time you were there for me, too. And now, since I honestly told you I fell off the wagon, and as much as it hurts you that I wasnt truthful, you push me away. I didnt push you away when you needed rent money and I didnt or wouldnt push you away if you came to me and told me something honest, like you have a problem and need help. I would tell you, like I always do and mean, that we are a partnership and we do things together. See the thing is, I dont think you think we are a real partnership. I think that you think that you cant distance yourself from me because, well quite frankly, I am always there for you. It is what I do and I like it. I like helping people. I like doing things for you; sending flowers(he sent flowers once, brought flowers over another time, that's all) or emails or whatever. You think you have been lied to and I was deceptful, but I did what I did because I couldnt admit I was weak. Yeah, I am a man, think what you like.

But why do you think everything is about you? Just like you told me, its not all about you Todd. Lisa got hurt, Lisa didnt get her way. Lisa dumped Todd because she was upset. Lisa checks her email everyday second of everyday but cant send Todd an email. Lisa is hurt. Lisa wont leave (the city I live in). If you want to to be with Lisa, then its Lisa's way sucka. Deal with it. You know very well you have me salivating at your feet, that I would do anything for you ever. It must feel real good to have that power over someone.

Its MY problem I feel the way I do about you. Its MY problem that you dont feel the same way anymore. Its MY problem I will never be with another woman as long as I live; no one will ever replace you, to me.

You will always have a roof over your head, a car to drive, food in your fridge as long as you are my son's mom. Always. I hope you find the man that will make you happy. I just couldnt do it, it seems. But I know I tried.

You will always be the unreachable star in the sky to me Lisa.

Love always


I kept the names in because frankly, I'm too irritated to go back and read it again to remove the names.

So.....opinions???

Impurrfect

He's trying to put the blame back on you, so you will forget that he lied. He's trying to "sugarcoat" that he lied...."I was weak"...whatever...he lied.

Just my opinion, but having been in a relationship, for 20+ years where when HE did something wrong (usually lying) and ended up making ME feel guilty and apologizing for something....this is very, very familiar.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

sosad09

wow, I am sorry that you have to deal with so many emotions at one time. I am new here and don't feel I have enough wisdom to respond wisely. I just know that many of those words he said in your email I have heard too after a 'relapse" I think he means them when he is sober, its just how long will that be? Its a lot to deal with the up and down and highs and lows.
I wish you all the best

FindingPeace1

I am (up front) acknowledging I am BIASED (oh GOD, am I!), but this is my AH over and over.
He feels like I don't love him/hate him/judge him/can't accept he's human and he just loves and tries his best. He (sometimes) admits he was wrong, but feels his behavior is justified because he was upset. (ah hem)
It may be he loves and tries his best, but that doesn't excuse the behavior.
Mine is not changing or doing anything different and DOESN'T WANT TO.
He wants me to accept him.
Lying, hiding, sometimes mean, sometimes running away, sometimes shut down, resentfully apologizing, etc. etc. self.
YUCK.
Don't fall for it.
It's GUILT GUILT GUILT and designed to pull you back.

I don't doubt he may really MEAN it and FEEL it and LOVE you to high heaven, but it stinks of a load of crap, in my BIASED opinion.
I don't think my husband is TRYING to manipulate me. I think he is at a loss as to what he or I do. I think he's suffering. I think he is trying. I think he loves me and is trying his best.
Nonetheless, I am left trying to live with the deceit and drinking, etc.
Meanwhile, every time he gets stressed, he makes bad choices.
Sounds like you are making good choices for you.

Hugs, sista!

w

Kassie2

The point isn't the email message, I would look at yourself and what you think and feel. Are you hurt and angry b/c he had slips/relapse or are you really done with the relationship? Stay focused on your instincts right now and stay with that - you are at this place in the relationship and had this reaction for a reason. What has changed? Appreciate what he has to say or not- avoid the codie reaction of changing your mind b/c of what he says.

dodecaphonic

Yikes, alcoholics are masters in emotional manipulation! When my AH starts with that stuff I feel like laughing and crying at the same time- laughing because it's so ridiculous, and crying because that's what my marriage is. I hope you can hear the voice inside yourself that tells you what you really want and need in this life, and I wish you the courage to follow it.

Impurrfect

((Elsie)) - after reading the other posts, I agree. I don't know that my ex ever intended to manipulate me, or ever didn't really love/care about me, but it was his way of dealing with stuff. As far as I know, it's STILL his way of dealing with stuff...just with someone else, as I left.

Lying is a big thing with me, so I guess this is what struck a nerve with me. I also remember these type conversations, vividly..I would be frustrated, react and respond back, trying to explain MY feelings and we'd get no where because he couldn't/wouldn't understand my feelings.

Keep your focus on what YOU want and is he meeting those needs, or are you truly done.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

GiveLove

Wow, that's a formula email:

1) I have been better to you than you have to me, here's a laundry list of what a great guy I am
2) You're overreacting by not wanting to be with a liar
3) Here's all the reasons you're being unfair for not wanting to be with a liar
4) Look at how sweet and lovey and romancy I am....don't you want somebody who would call you their "unreachable star" ?? I thought all women fell for that

I'm sorry to sound so mean, but really, you feel the way you feel because his email was perfectly crafted to undermine your confidence and instill guilt.

My XA used to tell me "No one will ever love you the way I do."

And nowadays, to that I say, "Amen." Although they don't want us to know this, there are partners out there who do not lie, who are responsible for themselves, who aren't self-centered, and who can be trusted.

I understand how you feel, Elsie, but I think you're following your own heart well.

Living with the doubt and pain and physical/emotional stress of an alcoholic who won't take responsibility for his actions? No thanks, no more for me.

tigger11

Hi Elsie,

I'm sorry as I start writing this, but this email made me feel as instantly angry, and I don't anger easily. Probably because his email sounded so much like my STBXAH. In response to his email I say BULL$H1T!!!

As others suggested, this is pure manipulation. Feel sorry for me, feel guilty, I only want what's best for you, and all I get is mistreatment, poor poor pitiful me.

IMO breaking up with him was right on! Do some things for yourself now. Learn how not to get sucked in to his world, and value your own worth. You ARE worthy... of being treated well, of living a sane life, not a life of alcoholic insanity, of living life without this kind of self serving crap.

You are wonderful. Believe it, and move on.

Hugs!
Tigger

barb dwyer

****{Elsie}}}

This is the 'roller coaster-ie' part of the show, hon.
Just hang on, and remember we're here for you as well.
You're not doing anything wrong.

I wonder if ANY of us on this forum hasn't received this letter.
In some form or another.

I know exactly what you mean about feeling RELIEF.

Trust that feeling as your Inner Guidance telling you it's a GOOD thing for you.

Seren

:rotfxko

Oh, for the love of humanity....that's hillarious.....cause my ex H said the EXACT same thing to me!!!!

And now I have the exact same response......Thank God no one will ever love me that way!!!! Woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the massive guilt trip he's laying on you....try to accept it for what it is and do what is going to make you happy....unreachable star....Oy vey!

Hugs!! HG

Learn2Live

My opinion? See Tigger's post above. And stop reading his emails.

coffeedrinker

i try and be careful about feeling like i know what another person is thinking, doing.

it sounds manipulative, yet it also sounds as if it could very well be what he is feeling. he has a point - he is flawed. but you get to choose what kind of person you want in your life, what "flaws" you'll tolerate. maybe he is truly remorseful, but that does not, and should not, change what you have decided is acceptable. and you're right; you would always be wondering about him.

i don't think it sounds as though he is blaming you instead of himself; he just had the notion that you would stick with him through thick and thin. almost no one sticks with another person no matter what they do - everyone has a line.

if he gets truly sober, he will see things differently. he will see them for what they are.

you are right to protect your heart, and remember, you get to choose.

hps

A few observations as RAH:

Well, I don't think he is that close to recovery just yet. He's not upset about his drinking, he's upset because his telling the truth about his drinking resulted in you dumping him.

When I was drinking, I would do lots (attention, gifts, whatever) in exchange for being able to drink. So I wasn't really a giving/loving person, then...

Also, even when I was drinking, I understood my mind was distorting things, such that I truly believed the consequences of drinking really weren't that bad. From that perspective, his email might make sense. To him, drinking might be akin to chewing gum, it's a habit that annoys you, but has no other real consequences. Assume you dumped him because he lied about chewing gum- wouldn't the email make a bit more sense? So communication with an active alcoholic is quite difficult, he is living in a different reality.

JenT1968

These aren't mutually exclusive. A person can be all too manipulative without any conscious knowledge that that is what they are doing. We just do what has worked in the past, what we have learned.

In one way he is right: you don't accept him just as he is, we all want to be loved for exactly who we are. He doesn't accept you either though. You say you are a person who doesn't want to live with an alcoholic who drinks and lies, you want him to stop drinking and lying, he says he wants you to stop caring about the drinking and lying (or at least go back to pretending you don't care?).

I have had similar from tbxAH. At first nice, now nasty, and in one way that's better because someone writing that they've always loved you and never hated after spitting loads of vindictive hateful bile in your direction is fairly obvious. But I've had both. I don't think my tbxAH is intentionally manipulative, I don't think his abuse was part of a grand Machiavellian plan. But it still happened.

I am trying hard to move away from me good/him bad. Me justified/ him unreasonable. All I need to know at this point is that whatever I identify as my needs in a relationship is fine (if they involve consenting adults and are legal outside of Utah) and that we just don't fit each other. Really don't fit each other at all.

I spent a long time trying to get him to understand my reality & trying to understand his. There is no point anymore.

transformyself

I really love the "until my dying day," phrase.

Such drama, when it' about THEM and their feelings.

My AH use to roll his eyes when I was upset and tell me I wasn't dying (such compassion) but is also this dramatic about his own feelings and life.

I"m with GiveLove
I knew this for years, I've seen others relationships up close and have seen role models of healthy relationships. At a certian point, just like you, I gave up the magical thinking that he would change and love me. Pulled away and said this is it.

I"m wondering this morning what that catalyst is? do you know Elsie? What happens to us to bring us into awareness? That shift into consciousness? I often think about it when others here reach that tipping point as well? What is that internal shift?

When I reach that "that's enough" point, he shape shifts into charming Mr. Wonderful. For years, I enjoyed it, relished in the attention and drama, chose to believe him, lived in bliss for 3-14 days, and then he predictably behaves like an alcoholic again. I deny reality (and my responsibility in the whole mess) until that something happens again and I say "that's enough."

We've cycled in this way for years. I won't say I don't have feelings for him anymore, but now I know the magic trick to honest to goodness freedom. Acceptance of who he is, of who I am. Hopefully I will continue to understand that I cannot change him, that he doesn't respect me at ALL and that I deserve an adult, trustworthy partner.

I want to stay this clear and determined until MY dying day

Elsie

Sigh

I'm hurtin' today. I think today it's sinking in. I feel bad, I feel a bit sad, I feel guilty.

But, besides the drinking, there's been much between us that could have very easily led me to this point. My Mom knows all about my entire history with him, and she wonders how I even made it to this point.

I do not doubt for a second that he loves me, and I do not think the manipulation is intentional.....this is about me, what I can handle, what I cannot handle, what I'm willing to accept and what I'm not willing to accept.

I am not willing to accept being lied to anymore. I do not wish to sit around and wonder if he's actually drinking or not, lying to me or not...I'm so tired of that! I tried not to think about it, detatch and focus on me. But when I did that he started to freak out and wonder why I wasn't paying attention to him.

Maybe I should go back and read the other posts I've written about him...that might help.

Why do I feel like I need so much validation regarding this?
I feel like I need to write down everything nasty he's ever done or said to me, showing people and saying "See??? I'm making the right choice right? You wouldn't put up with that, right?"

Why do I feel that way? It's killing me!

nodaybut2day

Elsie! *GIGANTIC ENORMOUS SQUISHY HUGS!!*

I had the same "Am I crazy or what?!" conversation with my mother this week-end. I have had these types of conversations with friends, family or my therapist because I needed so much to verify that I'm "doing the right thing" and that I was being fair.

For me, it took some time to ciment the notion that my decision was ok. I kept checking with others, but eventually I just decided to own my decision, even if it made me unpopular. Heck, these days, people divorce at the drop of a hat, so the simple fact that I was unhappy, completely removed from my XAH alcoholism, lying, drug use, verbal abuse etc, is enough reason for me.

I think that when emerging from the madness of such a toxic relationship, we're still very wobbly on our feet, having spent the last few years (or more!), getting totally bamboozled. We are trying to form a new reality for ourselves, on our own terms, and it takes some time to feel confident that this reality is in fact tangible. Don't be so hard on yourself; it's totally ok to feel unsure at first, but as a total stranger to your life who is looking in, I can tell you that *I* think you're making a wise choice (hence you should just listen to me ).

Impurrfect

((Elsie)) - If it makes you feel any better, I had the exact opposite situation - I had all kinds of people telling me "what in the he!! are you sticking around for - you deserve so much better!" Yet, I was SURE my love would change him. More than 20 years later, my love didn't change anything, and he is probably still doing the same stuff to someone else. I didn't think enough of me, to even CONSIDER my feelings in the situation!

Today, I need validation that the steps I'm taking, for me, are good ones. I'm not used to doing that. I think the sadness and doubt are something we go through but we are fortunate that there are so many here who have walked that path before and understand.

I also agree that reading your old posts would probably help.

Big, big hugs and prayers, sweetie!

Amy

Insulated

I know I know I know, i post this all the time. It's good though because it reiterates it in MY brain too!

It's not YOU he wants. It's the false sense of identity he gets from overpowering you and controlling you that he misses so much.