question about manipulation vs the addict

Old 02-10-2010, 04:57 AM
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question about manipulation vs the addict

Just a question:

How long does it REALLY take for the addict to stop trying to manipulate? Even when they are working their program and doing well? Does it boil down to a behavior that needs to be modified after sobriety or are they predisposed for manipulation and THEN comes the addiction? Just a question open for opinions.

Kim

BTW- Things are going well for me.
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Old 02-10-2010, 05:03 AM
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I think it takes a while.. putting down the drugs is often the easy part, relearning new habits and changing your life is the hard part. It takes a lot of work to stay sober.
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:35 AM
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Well, from here....Mr. Sofa has a lifetime of lying and manipulating. He learned at a very young age how to manipulate his mother to get what he wanted. She was drinking until he was 14....and I am sure he could detect her guilt and played on that. That's what kids do when they have no boundaries. Led him to a lifetime of trouble.

Now as a recovered A....she feels guilty because BOTH of her sons are addicts, and feels responsible for this. So they both play off of that to manipulate her....all while hiding their "secret"....which, in truth...isn't a secret.

For him, it's an imprint....and will take years and years with counseling and support to rewire, ya know?

So, I guess it depends on the individual. Every one has a different story.

The real question for us may be~
"How long will it take for Me to stop being manipulated?"
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:39 AM
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Sometimes never. Even people who aren't addicts can be manipulative. People who aren't addicts can be liars. They can be abusive. They can lie, steal, cheat. Manipulation maybe one of their personal characteristics. Be careful not to blame all negative personality traits on drug addiction.
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by sofacat View Post


The real question for us may be~
"How long will it take for Me to stop being manipulated?"
This speaks volumes for me.. THANK YOU!!!!!
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by hello-kitty View Post
Sometimes never. Even people who aren't addicts can be manipulative. People who aren't addicts can be liars. They can be abusive. They can lie, steal, cheat. Manipulation maybe one of their personal characteristics. Be careful not to blame all negative personality traits on drug addiction.
This is true, I know people who are not addicts who are just as manipulative and abusive as the worst drug addict.. Sometimes a character defect is just that a character defect..
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:50 AM
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Perhaps it also takes longer to "right" himself if he has been living the life for a very long time?

Is your addict aware that he/she is a manipulator?
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:28 AM
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He's been told but I truly believe he does not think he is doing anything wrong....which makes it worse.
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Kiki14738 View Post
Just a question:

How long does it REALLY take for the addict to stop trying to manipulate? Even when they are working their program and doing well? Does it boil down to a behavior that needs to be modified after sobriety or are they predisposed for manipulation and THEN comes the addiction? Just a question open for opinions.
When we determine that someone else's behavior needs to be modified, we are attempting to manipulate and control someone else's behavior.

Each of us has responsibility for ourselves and how we allow others to treat us. When we set boundaries, we let go of the outcome because we do not control other people's behavior.

If someone else's behavior is unacceptable to us, we take responsibility for our boundary and remove ourself from the situation.
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Old 02-10-2010, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jerect View Post
I think it takes a while.. putting down the drugs is often the easy part, relearning new habits and changing your life is the hard part. It takes a lot of work to stay sober.
Don't you think it's quite possible for someone to be clean and sober and a lying, coniving, manipulative jerk?
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Old 02-10-2010, 09:02 AM
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yes
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:40 AM
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This is a good thread... There are many people who sit and let others do for them what they can do for themselves....and you don'[t have to be an addict to behave in that manner. I, myself have gone through friends that tell those little white lies just to cover their butts at times. Life is a journey and at every turn we have to protect ourselves from harm even if we don't think its around the corner. Thank you everyone that has replied to this thread......you were honest and straightforward.
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Kiki14738 View Post
Just a question:

How long does it REALLY take for the addict to stop trying to manipulate? Even when they are working their program and doing well? Does it boil down to a behavior that needs to be modified after sobriety or are they predisposed for manipulation and THEN comes the addiction? Just a question open for opinions.

Kim

BTW- Things are going well for me.
Who knows?

I think the most helpful insight comes from the old AA saying: "What do you get when you sober up a drunken horse thief? A sober horse thief."
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Old 02-10-2010, 03:56 PM
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I agree with Sailor John. Who knows? I think that you are talking about a character trait vs anything else. My husband is clean and sober x's almost 5 years but he still attempts manipulation a whole lot of the time.

The question is....am I falling for it? Do I allow myself to be manipulated? Do I even want to be around someone that behaves that way?

I'll turn the question around....how long does it take for someone to stop allowing themselves to be manipulated and to continue being around someone that behaves that way?
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:17 PM
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so u r doing well your words but still finding fault with yourself. does the drinks dull these thoughts for a short while at least. in yr program u take 1 day at a time. maybe we can hope for no more in all of r lives.
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Old 02-10-2010, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by lightseeker View Post
I'll turn the question around....how long does it take for someone to stop allowing themselves to be manipulated and to continue being around someone that behaves that way?
Fair and honest. For me, my "conditioning" since birth as an enabler/codie has been defining my actions as "being nice". Then when i turn 180 and get angry, I am labled a b*7ch. It's a no win situation that I have allowed. Repeat..... I have allowed....I have allowed. I'm still in training.
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Old 02-10-2010, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by outtolunch View Post
Don't you think it's quite possible for someone to be clean and sober and a lying, coniving, manipulative jerk?
Oh Yes I do and I know plenty of people like that too
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Kiki14738 View Post
Fair and honest. For me, my "conditioning" since birth as an enabler/codie has been defining my actions as "being nice". Then when i turn 180 and get angry, I am labled a b*7ch. It's a no win situation that I have allowed. Repeat..... I have allowed....I have allowed. I'm still in training.
We set boundaries for ourselves and in doing so determine how people will treat us. When we do this, we let go of the outcome because we don't control other people.

Anger is a common emotion when we don't let go of the outcome, what other people do, or not.

Girls are often raised to, no matter what, be nice/play nice. When we establish boundaries for ourselves, we are being nice to ourselves. Ain't nothing wrong with that.

We are all works in progress.
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jerect View Post
Oh Yes I do and I know plenty of people like that too
We all do. Sometimes I think we have a tendency to use someone's addiction to rationalize jerky behavior. In otherwords, we sometimes give addiction too much power and addiction becomes the scape goat, ala if it were not for his /her addiction, life would be peachy perfect.
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:51 PM
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Very true. I've learned in the past year that manipulation comes in many forms and it's not always addiction related. Thanks for all your opinions! I love a good discussion and have learned alot from all of you. :-)
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