Ready to stop lurking/start exploring codependency

Old 02-08-2010, 12:55 PM
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Ready to stop lurking/start exploring codependency

Hi everyone.

After reading all of your thoughtful perspectives shared in the "codependency on SR" thread, I'm finally ready for my first post.

I have been lurking for months, and I've been impressed by the range and depth of understanding I've seen. What a resource! I feel like I've been getting free therapy. So thanks.

Here's my situation:

I'm an adult child of alcoholics, and am 2 months into dealing with the realization that I have another alcoholic in my life. I've suspected that this person was an alcoholic for many years, but when it was confirmed 2 months ago, the intensity of my reaction made it clear to me that I need some help. It shouldn't have been a surprise, but I guess I was in denial. What I felt - instantly - was intense grief. Then add in every other negative emotion you can think of and put it on "rapid cycle". I went to AlAnon right away, and that's been helping. SR has really helped, too.

The alcoholic is my sister-in-law. She's been an alcoholic for at least 10 years, and about a year ago her husband started to come to grips with it. She hasn't started recovery yet, and I haven't talked to her about it. They have a small child.

Our family is now talking regularly about things like treatment particulars, finances, plans, and her possible objections to treatment, and I'm coming to understand that my codependency is really being activated.

I'm obsessively questioning myself: How can I help her husband without being obtrusive? Should I point out the enabling I see him doing? If so, how often? Or is that an unhealthy urge to control? How many times should I invite him to AlAnon with me? What's the perfect thing to say when I finally talk with her? Etc. etc etc. Well. I guess you all know the score.

My basic question is this: How do I know when I'm being helpful in a healthy way? I don't trust my brain! Do you have a sort of "litmus" that helps you differentiate being helpful from being codependent? A question you ask yourself? I need to know that I'm doing everything I can to help protect that child.

I don't understand where to work for serenity, and where to work for courage.

Thanks,

1234
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:03 PM
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OH, wow!
Off the cuff, I would say my immediate reaction is that I do not want to be involved in my sister's marriage, my daugher's marriage, my mother's marriage. It is not a good place to be for me and for them.
If I felt the child were endangered, I would speak to my family member and if I were really worried I would phone child services.
Does your brother come to you and the rest of the family for advice?
Is it good for your health and happiness to be involved with this?
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:08 PM
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Omigosh. That was so fast! I love the internet.

Yes, he is asking for advice, and he entered therapy at the family's urging.
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:15 PM
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HIYA 1234!
Welcome - glad you found SR....
You ask a lot of great questions....

I was in a similar situation in that I started dealing with my ACOA (child of alcoholic) issues at the same time I was coming to grips with my brothers alcoholism.

Looking back I realize I had this urge to want to fix things right away! To find out what was the right thing to say, think, and do. (very natural for a codie!)

But it wasn't until I worked the steps and really, really accepted that I am powerless over other people and alcohol that my path became more clear. I also educated myself about the seriousness of alcoholism and the reality of the progression of the disease.

Meaning, I began to strive for a steadiness of of mind, instead of a reactive mind. I armed myself with the good tools from AlAnon and I accepted the reality of how difficult it is for an alcoholic to stop drinking and find recovery. I came to understand that no single word, statement, ar action on my part was going to make an impact on the situation - but my attitude could make a huge impact on me & my mental health. And that is a big enough problem to try to tackle.

So I would mention AlAnon and maybe hand over some of the literature, the telephone number, etc, once, to my BIL.

I would accept that there is no perfect thing to say because the alcoholic will drink whether I say something or not. So the perfect thing for me to say is the thing that does not enable - which is simply "I love you and I truly hope you find the strength to tackle this problem. here's the number to local AA, many there have been in your shoes. If you ever want a ride to a meeting I'm happy to oblige." Once.

I never offer myself as "If you ever want to talk..." because in my past that has usually opened the door to alot of frustrating "quacking" conversations with the alcoholics. I've come to see that I can be compassionate towards my bros, I can speak to them of all the beautiful things in this world, I can offer to help in any way I can that is not enabling, but I cannot help them get sober! That's just outside my scope.

A fabulous and sometimes painful journey of self-discovery started when I got into AlAnon and therapy and started dealing w/ my childhood. I hope your voyage of discovery is fruitful!

Glad you're here! Keep posting -
b
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:19 PM
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Hi 1234...this is just me, but I'd be very concerned about being dragged into a intervention-like posse, as much as my intentions were noble. I've read over and over on this site that it's very important not to get obsessed over the affairs of others, even if they are family.

You say your sister in law hasn't begun her recovery yet. It seems premature to leap in and "help". Perhaps if your brother wants support, you can offer to listen. You can also direct him to Al-Anon since he's going to need that kind of support. Perhaps if you have some literature to lend him, you could give that to him...but aside from that, I'd very careful step aside and let HP take care of him and his family.

Regarding the young child, if he or she is in danger, then perhaps you need to take some kind of action, but if not, as hard as it is, I'd stay out of things.

Again, this is JMO.
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:21 PM
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In that case when he asks for advice, I would ask him what the therapist says?
He asked you...you advised al-anon and that is that...
what more can you do?
Be a happy example?
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Old 02-08-2010, 01:25 PM
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I find it's best to ask myself 4 questions before "helping" anybody:

1. Has he/she asked for my help?
2. Is he/she doing everything in his/her power to help herself?
3. Can I afford -- materially, physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually -- to help him/her?
4. Do I want to help him/her?

If the answer to question #1 is "no," then I am sticking my nose in something that's none of my business. (The fact that I am related to someone and/or that I care about them very, very deeply does not entitle me to interfere, uninvited, in their business...and, an invitation from another friend or family member does not make the answer to question #1 "yes." In other words, if your brother asks for your help, you might decide that you can help him with his own Al Anon / codependency issues, but that still does not consitute a valid excuse to force "help" your SiL has not asked for onto her under the guise of "helping" your brother.)

If the answer to question #2 is "no," then I am probably going to end up enabling the person and/or p*ssing him/her off rather than helping.

If the answers to questions #3 and #4 are "no," then I am not taking care of myself, in which case I am in no position to be trying to take care of anyone else, and/or I am setting myself up for some big-time resentment, which is not helpful to anyone or fair to the person I am supposedly trying to help.

Unless I can honestly answer all 4 of those questions in the affirmative, then it is most likely not going to be good for anyone involved for me to help -- in fact, I am most likely not actually going to be helping anyone, including myself. Rather I'm going to be playing some kind of martyr or savior role for fundamentally selfish and self-agrandizing reasons.

Also, I've got to say that, in family situations like this, I often find it more difficult and crazy-making to deal with the other codependents involved than with the person who is, supposedly, "the problem," because a bunch of codependents who have found a great prospect to save do not respond at all well to anyone who refuses to go along with and/or support and/or applaud all of their plotting and planning to save the day. So, if you end up having to/deciding to detach from this situation for any reason, just be aware that that might mean detaching from more than the active alcoholic.

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Old 02-08-2010, 01:30 PM
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Wow.. those are some really tough questions! I'm glad you are recognizing your own behaivor patterns.. it's a huge first step to your recovery.

Other than that.. I have no brilliant insight.. just wanted to send you some strength and peace of mind. Welcome to SR! :ghug3
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:00 AM
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Hi everyone. Thanks for the welcome. I needed it. It's funny how nervous I felt just clicking "submit".

Live, you suggested I ask my BIL what his therapist is telling him. I'll do that. I'd really like to spend more time asking him questions and letting him talk about things and doing less "troubleshooting". It's hard because it's so dang automatic for me.

Bernadette: Lots of good stuff for me to try: I'll back off on the Alanon nagging! And I really appreciate you suggesting actual words to say when I finally talk to my SIL. I get frozen. I feel like a toddler who needs concrete instructions and lots of repetition.

Thanks especially saying it's alright not offer, "If you ever want to talk..." Another concrete way for me to limit my interactions.

Freya: Your list of questions to ask myself is great. Now if I can only get myself to pause for even a second before I react!

Thanks you guys.

1234
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Old 02-09-2010, 11:17 AM
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Well, I would ask him what his therapist said in order to throw him back into the counseling he was getting and to the person who is qualifed to assist and advise.
To me, it is a way of saying...asking me? You have a therapist!
I wouldn't want to be monday morning quarterbacking that at all!

I am glad you did hit submit!
Please feel welcome to post freely...make yourself right at home!
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:56 PM
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get it, give it, grow in it
 
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Welcome-
I have learned to be patient "be still and know"
We don't have to do too much or say to much too quickly

Take the time to see your role in this, be in al-anon long enough to gain some perspective. Have you invited the husband to go to alanon with you or suggested that he start there like you are ?
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:25 PM
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Litmus test #1 - obsessing oveer the problem/person
Litmus test #2 - trying to cure or fix the problem/person
Litmus test #3 - sacrificing your own self or your family for this other
Litmus test #4 - "knowing" the right answers/fix
Litmust test #5 - taking too large a role - taking charge or control of the whole thing

and getting angry when your choice isn't the one made in any of the above.

I think your brother is at his wit's end, and he is wanting support. Support doesn't have to mean jump in feet first up to your shoulders.

Everyone else is giving you good advice, IMO. I wish you the best,
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Old 02-09-2010, 07:05 PM
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Yes, SpiritualSeeker, I have invited him. Probably too many times! He came once, and I think there's a good change he'll dive in at some point. Yesterday I let him know that he's got a standing offer for weekly baby sitting if he'd like to go to meetings, but that I was going to back off a bit. He knows about my alcoholic parents, and I've been frank with him about how I'm in some murky waters here and I'm getting my motivations mixed up. I told him I was going to try not to give him any unasked for advice, but that I still wanted to communicate and help. We had a good laugh about my strange "plan".

coffeedrinker, you nailed me on #1 and #2. But I love to obsess! Why does it feel so good? Ack.

I do need to "be still and know", spiritual seeker. I wish my brain had some hands that I could sit on. If that makes sense.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:09 PM
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get it, give it, grow in it
 
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" He came once (to al-anon) "

He has to be ready for change. Sometimes people are only capable of venting...it often takes them having to hit their own bottom to SEEK and accomplish change.

Our role can be just to listen...no action or advice needed.
We can choose to recover and become enlightened to the best of our ability and lead by example in our families.
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Old 02-12-2010, 03:14 PM
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I wish my brain had some hands that I could sit on. If that makes sense.

LOL!
I love this image - I can soooooooo relate!!
peace-
b
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:01 PM
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same planet...different world
 
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Just wantedto say hello and welcome on your 'coming out' !
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