Eight Ball

Hi SR family,

This one is a bit left field, but I don't know if what I am feeling is 'normal', so would like some advice.

My AH has just flown back to the UK (we live in Australia) for his fathers funeral. We have been estranged from his father for the past 5 years after he stole money from us. His father was an alcoholic, lived and died alone at the age of 65 with empty whiskey bottles found all around the house.

About 19 years ago, we had a falling out with AH's mum, words were said and no apology was forthcoming, so we haven't spoken since. His mother, at that time gave my AH's brother and sister an ultimatum and forced them to take sides - they chose their mum over my AH, myself and our two DD. His mother even cut off all contact with her gran daughters. The family is extremely dysfunctional and to be honest, it has been peaceful not having to deal with them all.

Of course AH, has been advised by well meaning friends to make up with his brother and sister at his dads funeral, life's too short and all that and I have been trying to apply my Al-Anon slogans such as 'mind your own business', but its hard. I told AH, that he should do what he thinks is right for him, but now I am having doubts about that.

I don't want either of them back in my life. We never forced them to make a choice, and they chose their mum and have continued to play happy families without us. I also have enough dysfunction of my own to deal with. What difference will it make anyway, when we live the other side of the world. The aggro they will bring, doesnt seem worth it to me and my husband may be able to forgive them, but I dont! I am also worried if he does start having contact with them in the future, that he will keep this to himself because I dont want to know and I am the outcast.

Do I sound bitter or do I have a right to these feelings? I must say, I am really struggling with knowing myself and just think I am one big nutty mess.

Stereosteveo

I have nothing to share, or opinion about your situation really, but you have the best recovery board name I've ever seen!! Really cracked me up!

I say this because I had a bad case of the "yeah, but's" when I arrived.

Pelican

You sound bitter to me. Is it worth carrying around this resentment? It's like having a bus load of people from your past strapped to your back as you try to go through your day. That's too much of a load for me to carry on a day to day basis.

You said this too:

I told AH, that he should do what he thinks is right for him, but now I am having doubts about that.

You have doubt about saying that, or you have doubt about his ability to do what feels right?

It is his relationship with his family. His choice. He is in control.

Is that where you are struggling? Are you struggling because you do not have control over his family's relationship?

You have time to sort through your feelings while he is away. We are here to support you.

Learn2Live

You don't sound bitter to me. Nor do you sound like one big nutty mess. You sound to me like a woman who has just become aware of what she wants and some personal boundaries she wants to set. I think maybe you are questioning yourself and whether or not you are "right" because up to this point, you have been thinking about it in terms of what it means for your husband, and not necessarily what it means for you. Sounds to me like you are doing a great job taking responsibility for yourself!

I think the key here is to let yourself know that it is all right to want to not have these dysfunctional, unhealthy people in your life. I think your post is showing that you are feeling yourself out about this, bouncing it off other people, so that you can get comfortable with HAVING this boundary to begin with. Let me help: You are COMPLETELY entitled to setting and maintaining your own comfort zone. You are 100 thousand percent RIGHT to decide WHO and WHAT you want in your life, either minute-by-minute, hourly, daily, weekly, yearly, or for the rest of your entire life. You are 100% justified in identifying, defining, establishing, communicating, expressing, and maintaining your boundaries, including whether or not these people are part of your life (and regardless of what your husband decides for himself).

I think what you said to your husband was the loving, kind, caring thing to say, that is, HE must do what is right for HIM. Now, YOU must do what is right for YOU. Just because you are married does not mean that what is right for him is right for you and vice versa. So, own your right and your responsibility to yourself to decide who is healthy for you and who is not, and maintain those boundaries. Then, you will no longer feel the outcast, because you will know that you made the decision for yourself.

Bernadette

Do I sound bitter or do I have a right to these feelings?


All feelings are OK! It's how we choose to act that matters.

Maybe spend a little time weighing pros and cons: are there any positive aspects if AH reconciles?
You seem upset that DD's have no relationship with Gran. Maybe that will be something good that comes out of reconciliation?

Or if you are convinced these people are so extremely toxic spend a few minutes being grateful you live down under and can therefore limit contact quite a bit if there is a reconciliation. It is entirely OK for you to detach and allow AH to have his relationship with his family. He has that right, as you have right to protect yourself from them if they are toxic to you. And that doesn't have to mean you being "difficult" whenever they come up, but it may take practice for you to stay rational and mature when making decisions that concern you in relation to them.

Then after giving this issue all of maybe one hour MAX worrying time - I would pack up the daughters and do something fun in the sun! Enjoy the peace and serenity while AH is away.

I must say, I am really struggling with knowing myself and just think I am one big nutty mess.

This is a classic symptom of codependency and classic sign that you have been living with an alcoholic. The other family members often lose complete touch with who they are, what they want, where they end and the other begins, and how to move out of paralysis.

Have you read "Codependent No More" by Melodie Beatty? That's an eye-opener!

Good luck. Are you near the sea? Maybe dive in and let all that bitter stuff flow away with the tide!

peace-
b

coffeedrinker

yes, imo, you sound bitter. yes, you have a right to these feelings. the two are not mutually exclusive.

i assume your husband is an alcoholic in recovery?

reading between the lines, i think you told your husband that it is his decision to make and for him to do what he thinks is right, but you don't actually feel that way. you actually want to tell him what the decision should be. understandable, but it's not really working the program is it?
(if my hunch is correct)

i happen to believe in redemption and believe very strongly in the power of forgiveness. forgiveness is cathartic. but, it can't be forced. you may or may not be ready to forgive these humans their failings; your husband may or may not be ready. but although i would support someone in their decision to not be around toxic people, i would always caution someone against digging in their heels and deciding to never open that door.

Eight Ball

No, still an alcoholic.

No, no positives for me at all. AH may feel better. When the family were in our lives, all they caused were stressful situations for us to deal with. I have enough stressful situations to deal with, living with an alcoholic husband!

My AH is not the slightest bit interested in making piece with his mum, he still dislike her enough not to go there. It was her choice to cut off her grandaughters, so her loss. I have not been upset about that, as I say - our life has been better without her in it.

My AH went to a psychotherapist years ago about his non-relationship with his mum and he told him that some people are toxic and it is ok not to have them in your life. He accepted this and was able to move on.

You are all so right about setting up MY own personal boundaries, that's what this is hey? I am struggling with the fact that I cant control my husbands relationship with his siblings because I know they have caused me and him so much pain in the past - I just dont want to go there again.

And Bernadette, thanks, this summed up for me what I need to do. I need to allow my AH to make his own decision about his family but protect myself in the process, as you say in a rational and mature way.

Thanks everyone.

Eight Ball

Just read through replies again, and Learn2Live - your post is spot on.

Maybe eventually I will be able to 'get' this clarity about situations I face. I am quite clearly still on a huge learning curve but getting there slowly.

Learn2Live

Here is something that helped me, that I got off the web some time ago about "bottom lines," etc.

A bottom line is a tangible definition of what you will or will not tolerate in your life. One's motivation in communicating a bottom line is to take responsibility for self. When you develop awareness of your bottom line, you know without doubt, what you are willing to have in your life and what you aren't willing to tolerate in your life. When you take responsibility for your own growth and development, recovery, welfare and happiness, you guard it zealously. To do that, you set and maintain limits as to how much we allow others to contribute those things that impede that growth, recovery and welfare.

In communicating a bottom line, we are motivated to take care of our own lives, taking full responsibility for our choices, our happines and our unhappiness. A bottom line feels solid. You know that you mean it.

Maintaining bottom lines is facilitated by setting boundaries. Boundaries are borders that delineate, separate, and defend us from the world. Setting protective limits might include denying others the permission to use us, abuse us, take from us, or take us for granted. Boundaries are a demarcation of personal territory. They define where we begin and end. They define areas of responsibility and power. They define our rights and limit our relationships, as citizens, and as human beings. These limits are communicated with assertiveness, with self-confidence, and with self-responsibility. They define a healthy detachment from that which we are not responsible, and promote self-efficacy.

Identification of your bottom lines in relationships and maintaining them through communication of boundaries promotes recovery, self-esteem, and empowerment. (Threats, however, reinforce denial, maintain dysfunctional games, increase anxiety, and reduce self-esteem).

Peggy L. Ferguson, PhD

husbandofacoa

When I have experienced times like these, I just tried to behave well. I remember attending my alcoholic father-in-law's furneral. He was a piece of **** but I went to show respect and to behave with respect. I did not pretend that he was good just because he was dead. I just didn't say anything about him. I went there for those of the family that I needed to see. For those who behaved badly, even toward me, it was their problem and not mine. I am not responsible for their feelings and actions. I am responsible for mine.

I have no regrets for my actions at this time.

As for your husband. I think he should behave well but he is not obligated to bring their chaos back into your lives. If it feels right, he could maintain a little contact with his siblings and see if it works. If it does not, then don't. You guys don't owe them anything.

coffeedrinker

just read your recent post, nobut. it is often hard to discern, in words written by someone you don't know, what going on, but i think i took your hard line for someone who was digging in her heels and being stubborn and righteous. you certainly do have the right to not allow people that are harmful in your life, and around your children. if that is the case, i support your decision.

learn2live is a wealth of information. thanks for the "bottom line/boundaries" info!

Eight Ball

I know that it is really difficult to judge people by what they write, as words without expression can ofter have two meanings. We are all guilty of that. I have always been a caring, people pleaser person who has become an unhealthy codependent, controlling manipulative wife of an alcoholic. I am attending Al-Anon, reading and trying to get help for myself for that.

We fell out with my AH side of the family almost 20 years ago, before Alcoholism really got a grip on our own life. Thinking about it now, AH and I made the decision that his family were dysfunctional and we were better off without them at that time from a place of relatively healthy perspective and we have had peace from that.

Obviously AH is revisiting this area of his life with his siblings when he is not healthy and is an Alcoholic and this is what scares me now. As I say, I have enough dysfunction in my life dealing with AH. His own dad was an alcoholic and his siblings no doubt would have been effected by that and maybe thats why they are dysfuntional.

I need to learn to trust my instincts, learn to let AH make decisions for himself but set some fair boundaries that I am willing to accept for me. Learn2Live's port will help with that, once I get my head around it and understand it - that is.