codependency on SR

Old 02-03-2010, 08:16 PM
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codependency on SR

Howdy, friends!
So, I had an interaction on here in which I was... not gentle. I was very straightforward in my observation. I did not pull any punches.

It was responded to with hurt. The worst thing of all happened - I was called mean. Well, in truth, it wasn't clear if the poster was saying I was mean or the message was mean.

Being called mean struck my codie heart like a flaming arrow!! Dear GOD! I am going to die!

I scrambled to apologize.

Later, I told my friend about it. I read her my post. She had a surprising response. She said she didn't see any mean spiritedness. She said I was candid and real. She said, "That's your job, right, to help eachother see with new eyes and not candy coat things...
...oh wait, you're all a bunch of codependents! Of course you're going to candy coat!"
Well, I'll tell you, we laughed until we cried over that one!

It was her saying that that made me see how triggered I was to be called mean.

But it made me reflect on how we are on here.
There was recently a similar exchange around this issue. One person said we should cut others some slack, while another said our job is to call it as it is.

I think some of us sometimes probably DO do too much "you go girl" encouragement and not enough calling on the carpet...although I personally really appreciate the candor of those that call a spade a spade.

I also recognize we have to speak in a way that can be heard. If we don't, the message is not relevant anymore (at least for the person, in particular).

In addition, I always LOVE the supportive and encouraging because it strokes my ego...

What do you think about all this (not situation in particular, but about how we are with one another)? How much does your codependency influence how you reply or how you read other's posts? How often do you see other's codependency in their posts or replies? How do you personally curb it in yourself? Do you craft your messages to be gentle? Why or why not?
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Old 02-03-2010, 08:30 PM
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Hmmm, interesting discussion post. I like it!

I struggle to cope with my codie self here. I find the times that I want to whip out my mirror and show someone what I really see in their post, I often don't post at all out of fear of either my intent being seen as only bashing and not enlightening or becoming a topic of discussion in it's own way.

I'm one of those gals who makes a habit of backing up a negative with three positives. "Sure, your life is a complete disaster, but your grammar and storytelling technique are fabulous." I do it even though I know the more critical points get overshadowed much of the time.

Maybe I just took to heart the concept of saying what I mean, meaning what I say, but not saying it mean.

Either that, or I still don't value my own opinion enough to say it without putting frosting on the top.

....okay, that last one's probably right. How codie is that?

Alice
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Old 02-03-2010, 08:51 PM
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Good question. I leave the tough love to others who are willing to take the heat and risk going too far. I guess because after five years of offering my ABF my "help" and "advice" and getting nowhere, I've finally gotten it through my thick skull that I can be more helpful by sharing my experience and what's worked for me. So I proofread my posts for too many "you"s and not enough "I"s.

I know for me there's a temptation to try to impose my point of view on others on the forum because nobody's listening to me at home.

But I also recall something I discussed with my therapist: I can't know or control how others will react to me, so I need to use my judgment, do my best, and if somebody thinks I'm out of line, they can call me on it and we can discuss it. It's hard for me, but when I do it, I learn a lot more than if I'm clammed up and afraid to make a mistake.

Hang in there; this is part of the process.
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Old 02-03-2010, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ItsmeAlice View Post

I'm one of those gals who makes a habit of backing up a negative with three positives. "Sure, your life is a complete disaster, but your grammar and storytelling technique are fabulous." I do it even though I know the more critical points get overshadowed much of the time.
Alice ~ your posts are usually helpful (1 positive). I like your avatar (2). I can totally relate to the not valuing our own opinions part (3). OK now for the one negative.....wait....I don't have a negative

One of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite movies:

"There's a difference between knowing the path and walking the path."

I say this because I believe many of us think we know the best thing to do for ourselves...we're not all ready to walk the path yet....we just haven't taken that big step yet. Many are taking small steps - others take bigger ones. Some need to. Others don't know where to turn....coming here is a beginning to finding some of those answers.

Still, there are those who find their own paths and end up just fine too. For this reason I prefer to share mostly my ES&H. I also try to catch the tone of the post and keep to the topic - even though I might "see" something I don't always say. In my effort to NOT be a judgmental control freak, I've been working on "where I end and others begin." For me, I knew what I thought the right thing was - yet, no matter what anyone told me then, I still did what I did. I needed to find my own way. And more than a year later, I am in a totally different (and better) place.

The good thing about SR is there are many of us here with different styles and things to offer. I appreciate SR and the variety of thoughts/experiences/and love that is shared.
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Old 02-03-2010, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by lc2846 View Post

I know for me there's a temptation to try to impose my point of view on others on the forum because nobody's listening to me at home.
Ooooohhhhh! That one hit home with the sting of truth! Ouch. Yea.

Just because I have an insight doesn't mean I HAVE to share it. Learning WHEN to share insight with others (about them) is a SLOW learning process for me! Of course, people are asking for comments here...but still...

I am still thinking on this.
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Old 02-04-2010, 01:43 AM
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I'm not a frequent poster. I usually only post when something strikes a chord with me. I do try to moderate my tone sometimes - other times I just get carried away and post without thinking! Slipping into codie ways by reacting rather than acting... I'm still trying to find my own 'voice' here too.

I love the mix of 'voices' on this forum. The lack of BS ones appeal to me most - I think because XAH used so much BS on me that hearing the plain, unvarnished truth/opinion here is like a breath of fresh air! After being with a controlling, passive aggressive XAH for 18 years, this space where you can voice your thoughts and feelings and be 'heard' was a life line - stopped me thinking I was going crazy and gave me validation all in one. If I had to second guess all possible reactions to anything I post here, it would be way too much like being with XAH again and would drive me up the wall! Hard headed posters have my admiration - I would love to be able to speak my mind so clearly and be able to handle the negativity they get for speaking their truths. This is something I'm trying to learn for myself - to be more confident, assertive and less of a people pleaser. I have my pick of role models here!
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Old 02-04-2010, 04:40 AM
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There are times when I see someone still stuck in a bad place, (in my eyes anyway) and I grit my teeth, grrrrr a bit, and yell at the computer, "why can't you see what is in front of you?" Then my own little Jiminy Cricket gives me a nudge, and I think "I'm a good one to talk. It took me 18 years to see what was in front of me, and 6 months to act on it."

I may have walked the same path, but I did it in my shoes, not theirs. My shoes may not have had the same bits rubbing on my feet, as their shoes are doing to their feet.

Of course I feel the urge to hop in and "help", after all isn't that what kept me prisoner to my RABF's problem for all those years?

Telling myself and being told by him, that without my love and support he would drink himself to death were chains to keep me where I was. Well, he had all my love and support, and he kept on drinking, quitting, relapsing whenever he chose to, so I was of no damned use there at all.

Finally I see the light. I don't have contact with him when he goes on the last binge, and refuse any help withdrawing other than to call an ambulance if necessary, and the result is what?

He goes thru 5 days of withdrawals, goes to D and A for help, sees the Dr and gets medication and does this for himself, by himself. I did nothing.

Was I happy? Not to start with I wasn't. I was mad at him, me and anything that moved for a while, and why?
Because he should have done this years ago when I was there to help, not wait til I gave up after wasting all those years with him.

How infuriating! How Codie! How selfish!

The love, support, hard truths and wisdom from those in SR and this forum, helped me to freedom, then showed me how to find ME and to grow.
I bless all of you, for your caring, and for sharing your ideas and wisdom.

God bless
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:41 AM
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Itisatruth also using a Matrix reference (I did one another thread, though) - another mental connection is made. Another reason to love SR.
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Old 02-04-2010, 11:55 AM
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"They" say that what you say to others is merely what you are saying to yourself. I believe that. Everyone comes from different places so we do have to try to remember that. I try to gauge what I say and how I say it but to tell the truth, I've got ADD and ADD'ers are known for being abrasive even when they're trying to be gentle. Good post.
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:07 PM
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bookwyrm's post made me think of one more thing related to this.

Since starting on my own Recovery, I have made concerted effort in all areas of my life to say what I mean and mean what I say. All of my life there were back-handed comments and subtle name-calling and innuendos and head-games and just plain BS from all the alcoholics and addicts I had come to know and love.

As I have grown, I have become more direct than probably some others may be comfortable with. I have learned as I've aged to not ever assume that anyone else can read my mind and, therefore, it is up to me to ask for what I want. A person in denial would likely not enjoy a conversation with me. I'm clumsy socially to begin with (see previous post), add to that ACOA, and now over-40 and that doesn't leave much inclination toward using soft, pretty words. I won't ever apologize for telling the truth because I lived in non-reality for much too long and have thickened my skin since learning how to face myself head-on.

If a poster "can't take it" on SR, that is all the more reason for them to go to Al-Anon where face-to-face is much softer and gentler than typed words from complete strangers who you will likely never meet. I'm certain NO ONE on here has ever purposely set out to hurt someone else; at least not in the posts I've read.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:24 PM
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I value blunt honesty from people, and one of the reasons that I like SR is because if I post a question about something that I'm dealing with I'm very likely to get a truly honest answer from someone who's already lived through this.

Sugar coating or tiptoing around codependency, alcoholism, addiction or mental health issues helps NO ONE. As an ACOA I spent a lifetime trying to help my parents avoid discussing anything too close to home, and I find the willingness of people on this forum to tackle "delicate" subjects head-on refreshing.

I don't comment on a lot of posts anymore because I lack the patience at times to try and figure out how to say things nicely. I see people post about stuff that just screams out to me to say in response "Why the HELL are you letting yourself be TREATED THAT WAY?????" or "Why on earth would you DO that?" And I don't write anything because I can't find the nice way to say it. So I appreciate the people who take the time to frame a response.

People like to be liked. I want people to like me. But when I come here, I'd rather people share their truth so that I can help myself get well. Here, it ain't about bein' liked.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:07 PM
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I appreciate candor as well - it helps me the most. BUT.

I sometimes wish that, before hitting "post" at the end of typing a long reply which essentially shouts "WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS," people might step back and read it out loud, imagining that they are saying it to a real live flesh-and-blood person standing right in front of them with their heart in their hands (imagining them in tears would not be a stretch)

If you wouldn't still say things the same way to a real person in real pain - honestly - then that's where you have to decide whether to edit yourself or just close your message and walk away.

Many posters have the skill to say these things and stilll it comes across that they say it with compassion and understanding for the suffering that's going on. Some do not have that skill, or have it but don't want to take the time and energy to exercise it, and I can tell you that it breaks my heart after an episode like that when we never see that poster show up again.

We've seen some brutal honesty that, if spoken in person, would shatter someone's already fragile self-esteem into a million fragments.

Everyone means well, but regardless of the like me/don't like me issue, it's worth making sure what you write passes the "I'd say this to your face" test.

Just my two cents, from my dusty perch up here. Can someone send up a cold drink?

p.s. and know that by "you" I mean the universal, ambiguous "all of us," and not You, WifeofaDrinker LOL

Last edited by GiveLove; 02-04-2010 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by GiveLove View Post
I appreciate candor as well - it helps me the most. BUT.

I sometimes wish that, before hitting "post" at the end of typing a long reply which essentially shouts "WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS," people might step back and read it out loud, imagining that they are saying it to a real live flesh-and-blood person standing right in front of them with their heart in their hands (imagining them in tears would not be a stretch)

If you wouldn't still say things the same way to a real person in real pain - honestly - then that's where you have to decide whether to edit yourself or just close your message and walk away.

Many posters have the skill to say these things and stilll it comes across that they say it with compassion and understanding for the suffering that's going on. Some do not have that skill, or have it but don't want to take the time and energy to exercise it, and I can tell you that it breaks my heart after an episode like that when we never see that poster show up again.

We've seen some brutal honesty that, if spoken in person, would shatter someone's already fragile self-esteem into a million fragments.

Everyone means well, but regardless of the like me/don't like me issue, it's worth making sure what you write passes the "I'd say this to your face" test.

Just my two cents, from my dusty perch up here. Can someone send up a cold drink?
icy beverage on the way!
Good stuff. Thanks.
Its a fine line, for sure. In fact, I began a post after writing the one that was badly received, and in the middle of it, just logged off altogher without posting. I realized my patience was waning and I was not in compassion-land. So, again, even if the observation is accurate, it doesn't mean its necessary, can be heard, or will benefit the poster.
More thought before words or actions in order!
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:49 PM
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I share my experience, strength and hope along with my opinions.
There is a saying in al-anon: "Take what you like and leave the rest."

The gift of groups & forums is that at least one if not many posts will be just what we need to hear in whatever form it comes. From some of you I greatly appreciate your kind words and from some I appreciate your honest opinions.

Speak for yourselves when you say that:
" you're all a bunch of codependents! Of course you're going to candy coat! "
I don't think we can be collectively pigeon-holed as candy-coaters.
We are all at different degrees of mental health, recovery, grief, intelligence, enlightenment, compassion, etc.

WifeofaDrinker please continue to Bring - it - on
I appreciate your opinions.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:54 PM
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Speak for yourselves when you say that:
" you're all a bunch of codependents! Of course you're going to candy coat! "
I don't think we can be collectively pigeon-holed as candy-coaters.
We are all at different degrees of mental health, recovery, grief, intelligence, enlightenment, compassion, etc.


I totally hear that; i wasn't meant as an insult. My friend is a therapist and social worker and a wonderful, supportive human being. She just was hit with the conflict in a codie context and found it funny. We both thought it was wildly amusing and I thought you all might get a giggle, too.
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:11 AM
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thanks for posting this, wife. (i did get a chuckle from the "candy coat" statement btw)

i am one of those on this forum who tries to temper what i say. i never, ever want to hurt someone's feelings, and even sometimes when i see another person's post that seems rough, it causes me to cringe. (although to be honest, i have really laid it on the line and maybe crossed that line i try not to!) i am learning to get a thicker skin, and also know that words come across in text differently than if they were being said. i am actually probably too over the line, almost always proof-reading my posts and questioning if i sounded "mean".

i think that often we, in our experience and what we've learned, try to say some very straightforward words that will shoot a dose of reality into the o.p. not realizing, perhaps, that they are just starting out on their journey of enlightenment, and that it takes time. even though we speak truth, i think we can come across as know-it-alls, or just a little too strong.

i think, yeah, tell it to us straight. yeah, we should realize that it is the poster's opinion and we don't know where they've been, but it hasn't been the same as where we've been. some people have been very, very badly hurt, and that colors what they think, and therefore how they will reply. but what i wish is this:
* that we would try and temper out admonishments with some gentle words
* that we would not generalize our opinions as though they are in fact everyone's truth
* that we would not speak in black and white so much
* that we would give every one criticism with two compliments (jk, thanks alice

(um....was i just redundant?)
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Old 02-07-2010, 08:19 AM
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A little late to the party as usual... my two cents worth - I came here for support. I know the truth about A and recovery- but living with A or recovery is different from knowing about it.

I feel that my experience of being bashed emotionally or having my words twisted or being abandoned by the illness has left me with wounds that need healing.

I believe that the truth is healing, but when someone is in pain, it is usually needful for that person to step into that pain and support is part of holding their hand while they take that step.

When I first went to alanon I was surprised to hear that the focus would be on me finding and healing me first. There was no pushing to leave, fix or do anything about my A. I never heard a confrontation only validation. My focus has been to work on me and then I will focus on making decisions. That order is for a purpose - I have made previous decisions which hurt me more and hurt others more - so I will take the time and give others time to find their way.

I don't think this is codie behavior to hold someone's hand when they are in pain until they get to safety. I don't think it is codie behavior to validate a person's experience of a situation and let them take responsibilty for their own choices.
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Old 02-07-2010, 10:22 AM
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It's no secret I've had my issues with this. For me, the only time I have real problems is when folks see me as being in denial and don't take my word that I'm just fine, right where I am. But I think I'm in the minority here, as far as being someone who trusts the process, pushes myself to change and am mostly happy with my progress.

yes, we can offer advice when it's asked for
yes, we have some great conversations here
yes, there is a great wealth of wisdom and information for the taking here but what's the point in treating folks like crap just to get my point across? I dont' have friends like that IRL, and it triggers me here as well.

When I percieve someones comments as arrogant and mean, coupled with assuming they know more about me than I do really cheeses me off. I feel talked down to, which is a trigger as I was the scapegoat in my family, but I didn't run and hide when I was called stupid and a pain in the ass, I fought back. That's what I"m working on.

I don't need to be "called out". doesn't work for me and i don't do it to others, I"m working on not taking anything personally but that hasn't worked so well here for me recently.

I dont' see being kind, speaking my truth and supporting someones path as sugar coating. I see it as VERY healthy because I'm not trying to control them. I speak my truth, tell others what's worked for me and leave them to their higher power. They need to experience the consequences of their actions just as I do. I mean, I didn't leave my AH until I was ready.

One of my friends recently said to me, "you're such a paradox. so loving and at least to others, walk face first and fearless into every situation. But you're so scary when you're really pissed..."

it's that last part I need to fix truly...
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Old 02-07-2010, 10:52 AM
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This is a great post!
I appreciate honesty... even when it's hard to hear. I am also learning to respect others' right to not want to hear my opinion or accept my advice.
If I ask a question, I really, truly do want to hear what you think!
I have a couple of al-anon friends that are kind, loving and wise - and they absolutely do not hesitate to shovel through my bs and get to the heart of a matter. I talk to those two in a way that I can not talk to anyone else because I so much value their insight. I never intend to inflict any harm, but I believe in honest and constructive advice.
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Old 02-07-2010, 12:13 PM
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What does this mean? "shovel through my bs and get to the heart of a matter?"

Does it mean you're lying to them?
Or does it mean you aren't yet aware of a pattern that you should or can fix?

I'm truly confused. It sounds so derogatory. Are you BS'ing them? I think this is when I have issues here because when i come here, or talk to friends, I don't lie. I'm a brutally honest person--especially with myself. And if I'm "in denial" then why be unkind in helping someone see it?


thanks for this thread!
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