Realization can bring you to tears
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
Realization can bring you to tears
Ok, so now i'm in tears because I like to come here and read the stickies as a reminder to myself, like I have said before. The following is an excerpt from one in the Classic Reading Sticky titled You think you're so special 1. I can't even BELIEVE how it desribes exactly my relationship with XA. It's obviously speaking to someone as they start a relationship with the A, but the reference to the past girl....it's me! It's totally me...it's EXACTLY how it was and how it ended.
It just really struck an emotional cord with me because sometimes it is so impossible to fathom that the actions can be SO calculated that you can go and read somewhere how the life of an A will play out and completely see yourself and him in it.
And then when you read it, it makes the idea of even saying "well, mine will get better..." practically impossible, because if this is right, if this is a dead on description, then how can the rest of the descriptions of what life is like in the future with an A not be dead on? If that makes ANY sense....
Right now i'm just , I don't know, amazed.....
"So what if he USED YOU to break a trust with a woman he was already seeing? It's not like they were actually *partners* or anything! She was just convenient for hurting his ex (he set her up really nicely to do that a couple of times), getting attention, an ego stroke, and occasional sex while he was waiting for the *right* woman to show up. Since you came along, he doesn't need her anymore. He's got YOU to feed his ego. And breaking her trust was a convenient way to ensure that he wouldn't have to bother with her anymore and could focus on YOU. He did it so carefully too. (He knows that it's the series of "gentle" cuts that leave the most stinking wounds.) That way, SHE would be the one saying she didn't want to have anything to do with HIM, and he could blame HER for why they can't still be friends. Isn't he clever? What a creative way to get rid of someone when they are no longer useful!
And if this most recent woman doesn't want to see him anymore or even be friends with him, it must be because she is jealous of the wonderful relationship you and HE have! It must be because he dumped her for you, and she's just not big enough to accept that. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the WAY he did things or tried to blame HER for his behavior. It couldn't have anything to do with him LYING to her and using her, and having a hidden agenda of expectations that he told her she just wasn't living up to. Nope. That would be his old M.O. playing out again, and he was a changed man by the time he met you. So it couldn't be THAT.
Besides, even if she deeply cared about him, he didn't have the same deep feelings for her, so that makes it ok to have sex with you, before talking to HER about it, right? He was just so TAKEN with you! Doesn't that just make you feel all . . . oh, I don't know - SPECIAL? She just wasn't long term partner material, and he made that clear to her anyway. If she knew he didn't have the same feelings, and was willing to continue to be used by him because she had fallen in love with him, who was HE to turn down that kind of attention and strokes? It's not like he had any responsibility to not take advantage of someone who was emotionally vulnerable or anything. And he broke things off with her eventually. He just didn't tell her about you and the sex stuff right away because he wanted to *protect* her from getting hurt. What a GREAT guy! See, he really did have amazing consideration for HER feelings! Withholding information isn't the same as LYING or anything. That's not dishonest, right? It couldn't possibly be that he was deliberately stringing her along until he was sure YOU were hooked. No. He's too sweet and charming and nice for that. He was just CONFUSED about his feelings, that's all. Besides, it's not like you two had UNPROTECTED sex before he told her about you, so that he could use you (the way he used HER) to break THAT trust as well... Even if he's BROKEN A SACRED TRUST THIS SAME WAY, SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE (with other partners and lovers), he wouldn't be repeating the same old abuse patterns with you."
It just really struck an emotional cord with me because sometimes it is so impossible to fathom that the actions can be SO calculated that you can go and read somewhere how the life of an A will play out and completely see yourself and him in it.
And then when you read it, it makes the idea of even saying "well, mine will get better..." practically impossible, because if this is right, if this is a dead on description, then how can the rest of the descriptions of what life is like in the future with an A not be dead on? If that makes ANY sense....
Right now i'm just , I don't know, amazed.....
"So what if he USED YOU to break a trust with a woman he was already seeing? It's not like they were actually *partners* or anything! She was just convenient for hurting his ex (he set her up really nicely to do that a couple of times), getting attention, an ego stroke, and occasional sex while he was waiting for the *right* woman to show up. Since you came along, he doesn't need her anymore. He's got YOU to feed his ego. And breaking her trust was a convenient way to ensure that he wouldn't have to bother with her anymore and could focus on YOU. He did it so carefully too. (He knows that it's the series of "gentle" cuts that leave the most stinking wounds.) That way, SHE would be the one saying she didn't want to have anything to do with HIM, and he could blame HER for why they can't still be friends. Isn't he clever? What a creative way to get rid of someone when they are no longer useful!
And if this most recent woman doesn't want to see him anymore or even be friends with him, it must be because she is jealous of the wonderful relationship you and HE have! It must be because he dumped her for you, and she's just not big enough to accept that. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the WAY he did things or tried to blame HER for his behavior. It couldn't have anything to do with him LYING to her and using her, and having a hidden agenda of expectations that he told her she just wasn't living up to. Nope. That would be his old M.O. playing out again, and he was a changed man by the time he met you. So it couldn't be THAT.
Besides, even if she deeply cared about him, he didn't have the same deep feelings for her, so that makes it ok to have sex with you, before talking to HER about it, right? He was just so TAKEN with you! Doesn't that just make you feel all . . . oh, I don't know - SPECIAL? She just wasn't long term partner material, and he made that clear to her anyway. If she knew he didn't have the same feelings, and was willing to continue to be used by him because she had fallen in love with him, who was HE to turn down that kind of attention and strokes? It's not like he had any responsibility to not take advantage of someone who was emotionally vulnerable or anything. And he broke things off with her eventually. He just didn't tell her about you and the sex stuff right away because he wanted to *protect* her from getting hurt. What a GREAT guy! See, he really did have amazing consideration for HER feelings! Withholding information isn't the same as LYING or anything. That's not dishonest, right? It couldn't possibly be that he was deliberately stringing her along until he was sure YOU were hooked. No. He's too sweet and charming and nice for that. He was just CONFUSED about his feelings, that's all. Besides, it's not like you two had UNPROTECTED sex before he told her about you, so that he could use you (the way he used HER) to break THAT trust as well... Even if he's BROKEN A SACRED TRUST THIS SAME WAY, SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE (with other partners and lovers), he wouldn't be repeating the same old abuse patterns with you."
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Tears are not always bad. Sometimes they are the birth of wisdom. I know for a fact that some of the most painful realizations for me have also been the most enlightening.
I cringe whenever someone on this forum refers to the OW as a skank, *****, or some other dehumanizing term. It's not that I condone the behavior, but I respect the humanity. I have friends personally who have had "relationships" with married men. They refer to the wife in the same dehumanizing terms. If his wife wasn't such a bitch, he wouldn't be seeing me, etc. When he finally leaves her, he will be true to me! Ha! Why is it that women always choose to blame other women, when it is the men who are playing us against each other? Playing us for fools. I don't get it. Why do we think this man who hurts us, and others at the same time is such a prize?
L
I cringe whenever someone on this forum refers to the OW as a skank, *****, or some other dehumanizing term. It's not that I condone the behavior, but I respect the humanity. I have friends personally who have had "relationships" with married men. They refer to the wife in the same dehumanizing terms. If his wife wasn't such a bitch, he wouldn't be seeing me, etc. When he finally leaves her, he will be true to me! Ha! Why is it that women always choose to blame other women, when it is the men who are playing us against each other? Playing us for fools. I don't get it. Why do we think this man who hurts us, and others at the same time is such a prize?
L
When Pigs Fly
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: california
Posts: 894
I have so much to say here, but I won"t, I have been on both sides, and neither is great...I was with th Married man because I didn't think much of myself...I never believed he would leave his wife. Nor did I want him to. Being the one cheated on, well that was just plain painful.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Thanks, kittyboo.
My X was serially unfaithful, but oh the reasons he had for being dishonest to the women before me. "She was a b****." "She didn't like sex." "She didn't care what I did." "We're separating anyway." And so on and so forth.
It wasn't until I was moving and found a bunch of old disks thrown in with mine that I found out he'd said the same thing about all of us....when he chose a new woman to be unfaithful with.
But that wasn't enough for me to break free from him. Oh no. Inside, I had to PROVE that I would be different. I would be good enough, pretty enough, sexy enough, everything enough. He wouldn't do that to ME, because I was better than all those women. After all, he told me so, right?
I hung my self-esteem on that belief. I needed him to choose me.
So scary, in retrospect.
Believe me....the stickies make me cry sometimes too.
My X was serially unfaithful, but oh the reasons he had for being dishonest to the women before me. "She was a b****." "She didn't like sex." "She didn't care what I did." "We're separating anyway." And so on and so forth.
It wasn't until I was moving and found a bunch of old disks thrown in with mine that I found out he'd said the same thing about all of us....when he chose a new woman to be unfaithful with.
But that wasn't enough for me to break free from him. Oh no. Inside, I had to PROVE that I would be different. I would be good enough, pretty enough, sexy enough, everything enough. He wouldn't do that to ME, because I was better than all those women. After all, he told me so, right?
I hung my self-esteem on that belief. I needed him to choose me.
So scary, in retrospect.
Believe me....the stickies make me cry sometimes too.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
Thanks guys. There really is so much emotion that comes from this.
For most who know my story, I wasn't the OW. Actually maybe I was! I don't even know.
But heard ALL of the things about his ex...how awful she was etc etc. He ended up going back to her, but the way this excerpt just described really how if he were telling her about his relationship with me...it would be exactly as it was written! I mean exactly.
What a creative way to get rid of someone when they are no longer useful! That was the most painful sentence for me I think. That I was no longer "useful" to him, and he could basically just get rid of me. That still hurts me to this moment. Because of course, I did not use him. And I have been struggeling a lot lately with feeling lesser than I should have been.
I posted a thread earlier where I confessed that I had actually seen pics of him and his gf back together, and though he did look happy with her. They were drinking all of the time. No wonder he didn't want me, I couldn't give him that. It's just the pain that comes with losing this person I thought was my friend.....when he never was.
"I hung my self-esteem on that belief. I needed him to choose me."
Omg....I KNOW! It was crushing to me when he chose to go back to her. I NEEDED him to choose me. Even with all that I have going for me, and I really do know I have a lot, that has been so crushing. So so crushing that he would RATHER have conversations with her, that he would RATHER introduce his friends to her, that he would RATHER make her a part of his life. Yes, I have felt all of those feelings.
For most who know my story, I wasn't the OW. Actually maybe I was! I don't even know.
But heard ALL of the things about his ex...how awful she was etc etc. He ended up going back to her, but the way this excerpt just described really how if he were telling her about his relationship with me...it would be exactly as it was written! I mean exactly.
What a creative way to get rid of someone when they are no longer useful! That was the most painful sentence for me I think. That I was no longer "useful" to him, and he could basically just get rid of me. That still hurts me to this moment. Because of course, I did not use him. And I have been struggeling a lot lately with feeling lesser than I should have been.
I posted a thread earlier where I confessed that I had actually seen pics of him and his gf back together, and though he did look happy with her. They were drinking all of the time. No wonder he didn't want me, I couldn't give him that. It's just the pain that comes with losing this person I thought was my friend.....when he never was.
"I hung my self-esteem on that belief. I needed him to choose me."
Omg....I KNOW! It was crushing to me when he chose to go back to her. I NEEDED him to choose me. Even with all that I have going for me, and I really do know I have a lot, that has been so crushing. So so crushing that he would RATHER have conversations with her, that he would RATHER introduce his friends to her, that he would RATHER make her a part of his life. Yes, I have felt all of those feelings.
Last edited by DesertEyes; 01-30-2010 at 09:37 AM. Reason: fixed broken color formatting
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by Kittyboo 
Omg....I KNOW! It was crushing to me when he chose to go back to her. I NEEDED him to choose me. Even with all that I have going for me, and I really do know I have a lot, that has been so crushing. So so crushing that he would RATHER have conversations with her, that he would RATHER introduce his friends to her, that he would RATHER make her a part of his life. Yes, I have felt all of those feelings.
Do you know that?
L
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,908
If someone is sick, they are going to choose to be with the one who either shares that sickness or is sympathetic to it. You really should consider yourself lucky. It may not feel that way right now because you are hurting, but after a while, you'll see that you are the lucky one.
Another thing...about being with married men (or women)...if they will cheat on their wife/husband, they will cheat on you. They are always chasing. It's not the relationship they really want, it's the chase. They need that for their ego, or self-esteem. They're screwed up in the head.
Another thing...about being with married men (or women)...if they will cheat on their wife/husband, they will cheat on you. They are always chasing. It's not the relationship they really want, it's the chase. They need that for their ego, or self-esteem. They're screwed up in the head.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
I do, I really do. And I try very hard to remember that I do know that.
I have a lot of abandonment issues, and really a string of men not treating me well at all. Some very poor choices on my part of course!
The reason why it is so painful with him is that he was really the first man ever in my life that I thought I could trust, that I told very private and painful things to about my life.
So that I ended up just being someone that he chose to use and get rid of, left a VERY big hole in my heart. He forced me to hit my rock bottom emotionally....which in turn has been a good thing, as I want to change the kind of men I let in, and also learn to trust my gut, and truly follow the red flags.
But yes, and thank you LTD.... sometimes it's really good to be reminded of that.
I have a lot of abandonment issues, and really a string of men not treating me well at all. Some very poor choices on my part of course!
The reason why it is so painful with him is that he was really the first man ever in my life that I thought I could trust, that I told very private and painful things to about my life.
So that I ended up just being someone that he chose to use and get rid of, left a VERY big hole in my heart. He forced me to hit my rock bottom emotionally....which in turn has been a good thing, as I want to change the kind of men I let in, and also learn to trust my gut, and truly follow the red flags.
But yes, and thank you LTD.... sometimes it's really good to be reminded of that.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
Thanks Suki......
and yes, your first sentence I will actually read over and over!
He wasn't with her when we started talking. He had actually left her back in MI and he moved to TX. It was only after his drunken car accident and confession to me that he was an alcoholic and he wanted to stop drinking that 3 days later he seemed to have switched his tune all together and was trying to get her to come back to him. He lied about that at the time, but I know now that's what he was doing.
All of a sudden after telling me that he wanted to stop, he decided that she was the love of his life and couldn't live without her as she "knows what it's like to live with him." His exact words.
I know what drives him to be with her. Even her parents left comments under pictures of liquor bottles that they have posted that "that's the way to do it!"... they are ALL big drinkers. It's what he feels comfortable in. It is what defines love for him.
And my thinking is SO TWISTED... that I feel like my worth is less because he didn't want me. When really, I should take it as a compliment that he didn't want to let me in to see who he really was. And he hid it from me well.
I'll sit here and read other members say..."why won't he just leave me alone!?"...and I internalize that and think.."jeez, mine couldn't get away from me fast enough!" I certainly feel like I have baggage...but jeez even an alcoholic who needs a codependent to be with him didn't even want me!
THAT'S how screwed up my thinking about this has been.
and yes, your first sentence I will actually read over and over!
He wasn't with her when we started talking. He had actually left her back in MI and he moved to TX. It was only after his drunken car accident and confession to me that he was an alcoholic and he wanted to stop drinking that 3 days later he seemed to have switched his tune all together and was trying to get her to come back to him. He lied about that at the time, but I know now that's what he was doing.
All of a sudden after telling me that he wanted to stop, he decided that she was the love of his life and couldn't live without her as she "knows what it's like to live with him." His exact words.
I know what drives him to be with her. Even her parents left comments under pictures of liquor bottles that they have posted that "that's the way to do it!"... they are ALL big drinkers. It's what he feels comfortable in. It is what defines love for him.
And my thinking is SO TWISTED... that I feel like my worth is less because he didn't want me. When really, I should take it as a compliment that he didn't want to let me in to see who he really was. And he hid it from me well.
I'll sit here and read other members say..."why won't he just leave me alone!?"...and I internalize that and think.."jeez, mine couldn't get away from me fast enough!" I certainly feel like I have baggage...but jeez even an alcoholic who needs a codependent to be with him didn't even want me!
THAT'S how screwed up my thinking about this has been.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
Originally Posted by Kittyboo
that I feel like my worth is less because he didn't want me.
I found when I examined how I felt about my AH, it was this way:
when he lies I feel unworthy to be told the truth.
When he hides I feel not valuable enough for him to be open with.
When he abuses himself with alcohol I feel not important enough for him to care for his health for our future.
Wow. My issues stem from:
I feel unworthy.
I feel not valuable enough.
I feel not important.
So it makes sense I would go find someone that could validate my feelings.
I have to work on LOVING me so that that can be reflected in my partnership (and that if people are not treating me as a worthy, valuable and important individual, I'll be able to notice because I know that is what I deserve - no less!)
Last edited by DesertEyes; 01-30-2010 at 09:42 AM. Reason: Fixed broken quote
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
"I found when I examined how I felt about my AH, it was this way:
when he lies I feel unworthy to be told the truth.
When he hides I feel not valuable enough for him to be open with.
When he abuses himself with alcohol I feel not important enough for him to care for his health for our future.
Wow. My issues stem from:
I feel unworthy.
I feel not valuable enough.
I feel not important."
All I can say is wow. Yes, I get that all of it.
when he lies I feel unworthy to be told the truth.
When he hides I feel not valuable enough for him to be open with.
When he abuses himself with alcohol I feel not important enough for him to care for his health for our future.
Wow. My issues stem from:
I feel unworthy.
I feel not valuable enough.
I feel not important."
All I can say is wow. Yes, I get that all of it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
I can't even come up with words....
He just wrote to me. He sent me 2 emails....
The first one said
"peace offering.....I never thought I would get back with (the ex). But I have to say in my defense that I did tell you I did not want to get into a relationship."
The second one said
"I hope you are well....I am sorry about everything. I hope school goes well"
I don't have any words right now.
He just wrote to me. He sent me 2 emails....
The first one said
"peace offering.....I never thought I would get back with (the ex). But I have to say in my defense that I did tell you I did not want to get into a relationship."
The second one said
"I hope you are well....I am sorry about everything. I hope school goes well"
I don't have any words right now.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by Kittyboo
But I have to say in my defense that I did tell you I did not want to get into a relationship."
"I know I was a jerk and now I want you to absolve me so I can feel better about myself. I also need to keep you on a string just in case my current relationship doesn't work out."
I hope you do something nice for yourself today and don't waste any of your precious time thinking about him.
L
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Stumbling toward happiness
Posts: 4,706
Don't you wish, sometimes, that we had an "Addict Translator" program on this site, where we could type in what someone says, and it would translate for us what that really means? Just kidding of course, but still. I wish someone like LTD had been around when I was wracking my brain trying to understand the mixed messages I was receiving.
Kittyboo, have you considered going no-contact with him? It doesn't sound like this is helping you to find your way back to happiness again. I only started to find serenity when I blocked his emails and calls and let him go. When you're ready, you may find some serious peace and calm by doing that.
Until then, big hugs :ghug3 I know how hard this is.
Kittyboo, have you considered going no-contact with him? It doesn't sound like this is helping you to find your way back to happiness again. I only started to find serenity when I blocked his emails and calls and let him go. When you're ready, you may find some serious peace and calm by doing that.
Until then, big hugs :ghug3 I know how hard this is.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
Thanks guys
LTD, I agree 100% that's exactly what that means. He went on to send a couple more saying that "he wanted to be friends, how he should have told me how he felt about his ex, and that he was so sorry about everything."
He brought up his Combat PTSD and said that was why he withdrew in the first place and said it was that he just wanted to put me out of sight out of mind. Which I believe. I still accept the PTSD behavior because I study it, I understand it.
What I do NOT accept are the lies...the blatant choice to lie to me to cover his actions.
PTSD does not make someone lie.
He of course had to be drinking when he sent these. I don't know what his motives are honestly. He knows i'm moving in 4 months as it has been said between mutual friends on facebook. I have not said anything to him.
GiveLove...you crack me up! "Addict translator". Maybe when I get my degree I will focus on creating a translating dictionary for those involved with addicts.
Actually I was no contact. The ironic thing about that is that just yesterday I changed my phone number. I seriously did not think he would contact me. The last time was a blocked call I got in November that I knew was him. But otherwise, nothing. So I never really had to think about No Contact, because it was just that...no contact.
He's still with her. He didn't say anything about being unhappy, just wanting to put it all behind us and talk about being friends again.
How can you be friends with someone you don't trust? You can't.
LTD, I agree 100% that's exactly what that means. He went on to send a couple more saying that "he wanted to be friends, how he should have told me how he felt about his ex, and that he was so sorry about everything."
He brought up his Combat PTSD and said that was why he withdrew in the first place and said it was that he just wanted to put me out of sight out of mind. Which I believe. I still accept the PTSD behavior because I study it, I understand it.
What I do NOT accept are the lies...the blatant choice to lie to me to cover his actions.
PTSD does not make someone lie.
He of course had to be drinking when he sent these. I don't know what his motives are honestly. He knows i'm moving in 4 months as it has been said between mutual friends on facebook. I have not said anything to him.
GiveLove...you crack me up! "Addict translator". Maybe when I get my degree I will focus on creating a translating dictionary for those involved with addicts.
Actually I was no contact. The ironic thing about that is that just yesterday I changed my phone number. I seriously did not think he would contact me. The last time was a blocked call I got in November that I knew was him. But otherwise, nothing. So I never really had to think about No Contact, because it was just that...no contact.
He's still with her. He didn't say anything about being unhappy, just wanting to put it all behind us and talk about being friends again.
How can you be friends with someone you don't trust? You can't.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 689
Insulted, I love the stickies...
They are at the very top of the forum, the block above where the threads from the members start. To the left of them they say "sticky". My fav is the classic reading sticky. So much info in there.
They are at the very top of the forum, the block above where the threads from the members start. To the left of them they say "sticky". My fav is the classic reading sticky. So much info in there.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
