barb dwyer

Back in 'the olden days'

I used to teach classes on this stuff.

Perception, I suppose you could call it.

But there's been a few threads now,
that have touched on this topic,
but haven't gone into it
in any depth.

And it's something that I wonder if
maybe we need to?
I've recently bought a new journal
and I'm going to start this year out (on Valentine's day)
with putting pen to paper
and listing out
my definitions of these words.


The FUN part
is redoing this
every year or so

and see how your answers change.


I've never been to alanon so I don't know
if they do something similar to this.

Just thoguht I'd share it here....
in case anyone wanted to do it aong with...

Bernadette

Y'know I guess over the course of my life I have thought a lot about love....but not so much about "worth" and not so much about "need."

If I think of worth right now I think of value...and time....and being worthy. I associate worth with time for sure....

If I think about need I think of things I need like health insurance, money for books....guidance....the people I love to be safe (that's a biggie - and a slipeery slope!). I associate need with things I guess...even though on some deep level I'm an old believer in all you need is love....ahhhhhhh - define love!

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....munching on this food for thought assignment!
b

GiveLove

Good exercise, Barb...

tigger11

Love is what I need, and I'm worth it.

Oops... did I just write that out loud?

I tried to define them each thinking; "I can do that, no problem." HA. Not so much.

But I'm SO glad you introduced this post, Barb. I'll put some thought into it. May even inspire me to pick up that journal that keeps hiding on the back of my desk somewhere.

TakingCharge999

Huh?????

Wow!! great thread.

love- ?????????

worth- ?????????

need- sickness-limitation-slavery-pain

MissFixit

To me,

Love = devotion, commitment, respect, patience, kindness, honesty (the stuff that makes life worth it to me)

Worth = value, ... this is hard

Need = food, shelter, clothes

Chiaroscuro

I'm only just beginning to be able to define worth in terms of who I am to me, and not who I am to others. And what I'm finding is that those things that give me a personal sense of worth still feel like lies. I know that I'm worthy, intellectually, but emotionally I feel like a fake.

And until I get a handle on worth, it's too darn difficult to identify my needs, much less try to fill them. And love seems unreachable.

Maybe as I wade through the damage from years and years of self-abuse, I'll be able to get to the root of why I am so darned hard on myself.

Hope springs eternal.

barb dwyer

Thank You!!!!!

Exactly my point!

I'm all the time harping about love... but have I ever stopped to THINK...
what the heck *is* this thing I'm so freaked out about not getting enough of?

What IS it?
What's it LOOK like?
What's it FEEL like?

When I feel something, WHY do I think that's LOVE?
Where the hell did THAT IDEA come from?
Is it HEALTHY?
(Not is it *right*)

but does it bring pleasure and beauty into my life?

Like some of you posted -
I learned that MOST of my perception
of these words ....

... were abstractions. Transitory impulses. VAGUE.

By writing each one down...

even putting hypothetical lead ins to them like ....

"If I were really wealthy, I'd have...."


To find out what you value...
lookaround you.

The things we consider 'valueable'
are the things that come along with us
no matter what.

Things you've had since high school.

If you have a bunch of 'nostalgic memorabelia' like that
lying around, but your more immediate necessities
(car, house, credit cards) are all in a man's name....

then you don't place value on the MEANS to aquire 'stuff'.
you place value... on HOW YOU GOT stuff.
The item itself -
isn't even much at all....

what's dear -
is the MEMORY of the EMOTION at the time
of the item coming to you.

See where I'm going?
Is this making sense?

I learned this back ... omg ... back in the early seventies.
It was called 'extrapolating beliefs..and plotting belief systems'.

As I said - I've been at this a very long time.

But it's good to do it and find OUT just what it is you really think.

barb dwyer

When we tell someoe 'this just FEEL right" ....

what are we saying?

Does it feel RIGHT ...
or does it just feel like what we've been TAUGHT ... is 'right'?

That's highly signifigant,
considering MOST of us
were abused in our cognative development.

THis is a way to take an abstraction...
and bring it into definitive parameters.

barb dwyer

yes, yes, YES!

Exactly.


In my little universe,
that HAD to happen

or I was just going to keep re-creating the same living hell I'd always known.

barb dwyer

some of these -

I litereally had to take a sheet of paper...

and write the word in the center of it.

then just random I began putting OTHER words on the page.
all over the page, really.
then every now and then,
I had to stop and concentrate...

to bring that 'feeling' back more vividly.
and write everything =-

liek with love -
WHERE in your body are you feeling ?
wealth... where in your body does that make a feeling?
or does it make a feeling at all?
I didn't have a feeling at all
because I COULDN'T feel 'worth'.

it was OUTSIDE someplace.

LaTeeDa

The definition of love that resonates with me the most of anything I have ever read was M. Scott Peck's definition in "The Road Less Traveled." He defines love as:

Notable in this quote is the word "will." It is an action, not a feeling. From there I consider love to be a verb, not a noun. And since we can never truly get inside another's head, we can never know if someone "loves" us or not. We can only go by their actions. Do they treat us lovingly? Respect us as an equal? Do loving things? I think I do not long for someone to love me, but more for someone to treat me lovingly.

And the flip side of that is when I love someone else. Is it love without expectation? Is it appreciation? (Another book, "What Happy People Know" suggests that appreciation is the purest form of love since it expects nothing in return.) Do I respect another person enough to take the action that is best for them, even if it means they are no longer in my life?

As you can see, I have spent a lot of time thinking about this one. I will have to spend some time contemplating WORTH and NEED before I can answer those.

L

barb dwyer

Then define the BIG words.

Like 'Trust'.

'Faith'.

'Hope.'

'Self."

heh.

LaTeeDa

Ah yes. And that is my "homework" for a lifetime. What a journey this is.

L

barb dwyer

What never ceases to amaze me -
is instead of outright LYING to myself...

I just don't let myself SEE it ... at all.

It's just a blank spot in my consciousness.

So I had to learn to 'trick' myself into revealing
whatever it was I was blocking.

Anyhow -
this is one example of what I call
a fun way to spend the evening

TakingCharge999

teacher, what?? i am stuck in the first exercise! lol


trust ????????????????

faith ????????????

hope ????????????????????

self ??????????????????????????????????????

TakingCharge999

I think I got one of seven, and it was incorrect! reminds me when I took the subject: "data structures"... only guys in 'shrooms passed the exams...!

Er...

hope - the thing with feathers

Now I cheated Emily Dickinson...

Chiaroscuro

I'm confused by the references to value being placed on things outside of ourselves, such as the items we cherish. To break it down for me, I had to look at it from the standpoint of "what if I were ship-wrecked and only had me to count on". What worth do I have in terms of taking care of myself? It's harder emotionally than intellectually to look at what I would be able to contribute to my survival. Yes, I'm resourceful, otherwise I'd not have made it this far in life with all the trauma I've dealt with. And I could certainly be able to take care of my immediate physical needs for survival. In fact, I'd probably be like the Professor on Gilligan's Island or MacGyver and make a radio out of coconuts, open an exotic sushi bar, and build a 3-story mansion out of palm fronds (with indoor plumbing).

But, I'm not on an island alone somewhere. I exist in relationship with the people around me. From the guy who delivers my morning paper (and I adore him for getting up earlier than I do, which is early) to the people at work, the people at my meetings, and the various people I deal with in the day-to-day activities of civilized society. It's here that I have issues. It's so easy to think in terms of my worth to them, as a colleague, mentor, customer, friend or ally. It's not so easy to think in terms of my worth to my own self, as a compassionate person, as an advocate for myself, or as the child of a loving God who tries to live a good life.

For me, breaking through the shame I've been carrying all these years is the only way that I'll ever be able to ever see my own worth, much less measure it in meaningful ways. And I know that as hard as it is to get through it all, in the end I'll have found a rare treasure: who I really am!

And when I find that, I'll be able to say "I need this" and know that it's because I have a worth all my own that is deserving of being able to need things. That asking for what I need from others does not diminish that worth. And that not receiving what I need from others doesn't diminish it, either. That the need not being filled (by someone who can't or won't) doesn't mean that I am any less worthy of getting what I need.

Does this make sense?

freya

Immediate, off the top of my head "definitions":

Love (as a noun): the natural and healthy involuntary response of profound appreciation of and reverence for the unique preciousness of self or other(s)

Love (as a verb): the choice to act, toward oneself and/or toward others, out of concious awareness of and respect for that unique preciousness

worth (noun): the value of

worthy (adjective): the condition of being of value and/or of being deserving

need (noun): that without which a living being will cease to live

need (verb): the state of desiring that without which one would cease to live

freya

TakingCharge999

worth - what lifts my spirit, feeds my soul, feels appropiate, fills me with joy