A Friend Who Is In A Tough Spot
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A Friend Who Is In A Tough Spot
I don't have the answer(s) but maybe someone here can help. I have a friend whos' wife is an alcoholic. They have two children under 10 years old and they are both in their mid to late 40's. What I mainly want to address is how does he move forward with his and his childrens lives if his wife does not recover or refuses treatment. Without going into a lot of detail, the issue he faces is that he can't get away from the problem because he simply can not find anyone to care for his children while he is working. He works 10 hours a day 6 days a week so he is gone by 5:00AM and doesn't return until 6:00PM. For now I will skip all the stuff that has gone on for the past three years and just focus on the situation at hand. His mother is 85 and lives 1.5 hours away and so does his sister. They are the only two relatives in the State. He does not want to pull his kids out of school and move them closer to his Mom/Sister/job and there is practically no chance of getting a job closer to home right now (his two way commute is 3+ hrs). The real estate market is so poor right now he probably couldn't cover his mortgage even if he was willing to sell (I don't know this for a fact). He has contemplated divorce and even went part way down that road once but stopped it because it's just a lose-lose situation. So outside of her recovery what are his options?
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Location: LA - Lower Alabama
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Divorce sounds pretty good to me. Then pay for day care, it has to be very available in this economy. Divorce is one of those consequences that will sometimes spur people to seek recovery.
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I'm sure that has been considered but aside from the expense, who wants to get their kids up at 4:30AM and haul them somewhere everyday during the school week? Don't know of too many daycare places that open up at that time of the morning.
He lives in a small town of less than 3,000.
He lives in a small town of less than 3,000.
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 14,246
Welcome to SR. 
If these kids are in danger or being neglected while in the care of an active alcoholic; the welfare of these two children is the top priority and needs to be attended to-even if that means getting up at 4:30 in the morning.
So outside of her recovery what are his options?
If these kids are in danger or being neglected while in the care of an active alcoholic; the welfare of these two children is the top priority and needs to be attended to-even if that means getting up at 4:30 in the morning.
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Many, many times. She simply refuses to do anything about it. She knows she has a major problem and is even apologetic after an episode but just will not admit that she can't beat the addition without help and a commitent on her part.
Obviously, her recovery would be a win-win for everyone involved. That much is understood. The issue is what to do in case that day never comes. Since he is convinced he can't force her to seek help something drastic will have to take place.
I certainly hope that she is not putting the kids in harms way. I think he would take steps to protect his children if he thought that was happening. The bus drops the kids off at their house after school so she isn't DUI with them in the car at least.
The problem is the antagonistic, obnoxious and accusatory personallity toward him and the kids and the constant not stop attempts to pick a fight while drunk.
Obviously, her recovery would be a win-win for everyone involved. That much is understood. The issue is what to do in case that day never comes. Since he is convinced he can't force her to seek help something drastic will have to take place.
I certainly hope that she is not putting the kids in harms way. I think he would take steps to protect his children if he thought that was happening. The bus drops the kids off at their house after school so she isn't DUI with them in the car at least.
The problem is the antagonistic, obnoxious and accusatory personallity toward him and the kids and the constant not stop attempts to pick a fight while drunk.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
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I would suggest he find an au pair, or a nanny. Someone who will not leave these children as soon as they bond with her. Or is there a young relative who would do a live-in stint, perhaps between academic sessions or something? His misery, and the children's sadness and confusion can't have a price tag.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LA - Lower Alabama
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Yes live in day care is what I am talking about.
Have you ever seen "intervention"? He could try to do an intervention with her. A real life one is not exactly like the TV show. I was involved in one that was successful.
Have you ever seen "intervention"? He could try to do an intervention with her. A real life one is not exactly like the TV show. I was involved in one that was successful.
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He and I talked about both intervention and some sort of part-time nanny etc.
As for the intervention, I doubt this would do much good as her close friends and family have already had many talks with her so the "shock" element at least would not be there. Several years ago she did check into a rehab unit for a week or so. More family was nearby back then and really pitched in and helped out with the kids while he went and visited etc. Even with all of the mandatory classes she attended the treatment didn't take.
As for the nanny suggestion this seems to be the only solution that fits the situation right at the moment. However, the only way that would work is if she no longer resides at the household and that probably won't happen without a divorce which I assume would mean the assets would have to be split up, which effectively puts him where he didn't want to go which is to move the kids from their current home and school.
That's why I named this thread "My friend is in a tough spot". No easy answers but I am the type that figures nothing that is broke fixes itself.
There is a very fine line between listening to a friend vent his troubles and getting in the middle of his personal life which means I'm sort of in a tough spot too.
I am still open to any and all suggestions and certainly appreciate everyone that has taken the time to try and help with this matter. We all have our own "cross to bear" but I really don't know what to tell this guy. I sense that he feels his life is pretty much screwed. Maybe I should just continue to shut up and listen.
As for the intervention, I doubt this would do much good as her close friends and family have already had many talks with her so the "shock" element at least would not be there. Several years ago she did check into a rehab unit for a week or so. More family was nearby back then and really pitched in and helped out with the kids while he went and visited etc. Even with all of the mandatory classes she attended the treatment didn't take.
As for the nanny suggestion this seems to be the only solution that fits the situation right at the moment. However, the only way that would work is if she no longer resides at the household and that probably won't happen without a divorce which I assume would mean the assets would have to be split up, which effectively puts him where he didn't want to go which is to move the kids from their current home and school.
That's why I named this thread "My friend is in a tough spot". No easy answers but I am the type that figures nothing that is broke fixes itself.
There is a very fine line between listening to a friend vent his troubles and getting in the middle of his personal life which means I'm sort of in a tough spot too.
I am still open to any and all suggestions and certainly appreciate everyone that has taken the time to try and help with this matter. We all have our own "cross to bear" but I really don't know what to tell this guy. I sense that he feels his life is pretty much screwed. Maybe I should just continue to shut up and listen.
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
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Nothing changes if nothing changes.
If he remains focused on all the things he can't do
can't get a divorce
can't find another job
can't drag kids around at 4am
can't hire live-in nanny
can't move to be closer to family
then nothing is going to change. Well, that's a lie. Things with an active alcoholic always get worse. The disease is progressive and things will deteriorate slowly at times and quickly at others, but deterioration is guaranteed.
Sacrifices will obviously have to be made on his part if he wants positive change. Safety and mental health of children growing up w/ an alcoholic parent is #1.
I suggest your friend contact some kind of counselor for himself and start sorting out what kind of changes he can make and what kind of options he does have.
When I turn my focus to can instead of can't - or accept that I will do whatever it takes to change a miserable situation then things start to move. Baby steps still take me places!
peace-
b
If he remains focused on all the things he can't do
can't get a divorce
can't find another job
can't drag kids around at 4am
can't hire live-in nanny
can't move to be closer to family
then nothing is going to change. Well, that's a lie. Things with an active alcoholic always get worse. The disease is progressive and things will deteriorate slowly at times and quickly at others, but deterioration is guaranteed.
Sacrifices will obviously have to be made on his part if he wants positive change. Safety and mental health of children growing up w/ an alcoholic parent is #1.
I suggest your friend contact some kind of counselor for himself and start sorting out what kind of changes he can make and what kind of options he does have.
When I turn my focus to can instead of can't - or accept that I will do whatever it takes to change a miserable situation then things start to move. Baby steps still take me places!
peace-
b
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 193
Originally Posted by WANMAN 
I certainly hope that she is not putting the kids in harms way. I think he would take steps to protect his children if he thought that was happening.
The problem is the antagonistic, obnoxious and accusatory personallity toward him and the kids and the constant not stop attempts to pick a fight while drunk.
The problem is the antagonistic, obnoxious and accusatory personallity toward him and the kids and the constant not stop attempts to pick a fight while drunk.
Has the idea of her losing her kids been approached? Everyones bottom is different.. that consequence might be enough for her to accept the help.
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I'll have to say that I like the quote that "nothing changes if nothing changes".
We have had many many conversations but in the end he keeps coming up with all the road blocks. And I am beginning to understand that while every point for not doing something has its individual reason, the big picture dictates that something must be changed instead of nothing being changed.
Simply put, he is going to have to find the courage to make change for the better or regret it. Otherwise it could be too late. All sorts of things can and probably will occur if things are left as they are and I certainly don't think any of them will be positive. Sooner or later her luck will run out and something horrible could happen to one or both of the kids.
I have suggested that he attend local meetings for friends and family of alcoholics and he has done that, but when she stops drinking for a couple of weeks he quits going.
The other possibility is that he loses his cool and does something stupid like slap her around in the heat of the moment (hasn't happend yet) which would seroiusly effect his ability to do what is in the best interest of the children.
Change really is in order and status quo is not an option (and he really thinks it is). Hopefully, if he resumes attending the local meetings others can help him realize this.
Thanks to everyone for all your help.
We have had many many conversations but in the end he keeps coming up with all the road blocks. And I am beginning to understand that while every point for not doing something has its individual reason, the big picture dictates that something must be changed instead of nothing being changed.
Simply put, he is going to have to find the courage to make change for the better or regret it. Otherwise it could be too late. All sorts of things can and probably will occur if things are left as they are and I certainly don't think any of them will be positive. Sooner or later her luck will run out and something horrible could happen to one or both of the kids.
I have suggested that he attend local meetings for friends and family of alcoholics and he has done that, but when she stops drinking for a couple of weeks he quits going.
The other possibility is that he loses his cool and does something stupid like slap her around in the heat of the moment (hasn't happend yet) which would seroiusly effect his ability to do what is in the best interest of the children.
Change really is in order and status quo is not an option (and he really thinks it is). Hopefully, if he resumes attending the local meetings others can help him realize this.
Thanks to everyone for all your help.
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: minneapolis, mn
Posts: 2,762
hi there. i just have to pop back here on this thread. could you perhaps suggest that your friend register an account here on s/r? this middleman thing seems complicated, and as you yourself said, there reaches a point where you want and need to back out of it.
the alcoholic has to hit bottom - we have all heard this numerous times. but something else is true: he (friend) has to hit his "bottom" as well. it's always an emotional bottoming out by the way. i am getting the strong sense that he isn't quite there yet. he has obstacles, yes, but are his objections really excuses in the form of obstacles? i should think that if he is that unhappy and his children are at risk for suffering emotional harm (and they are, make no mistake) then getting her out of there should be priority one.
you just posted this - perhaps others will come along and give some ideas, but perhaps even just telling her she needs to leave and can come back to her family once she has sobered up, will cause her to actually do it. wringing his hands with you lending an ear isn't very productive.
and i apologize if i am coming across as insensitive - it is not my intent. like i said, it's just a hunch.
the alcoholic has to hit bottom - we have all heard this numerous times. but something else is true: he (friend) has to hit his "bottom" as well. it's always an emotional bottoming out by the way. i am getting the strong sense that he isn't quite there yet. he has obstacles, yes, but are his objections really excuses in the form of obstacles? i should think that if he is that unhappy and his children are at risk for suffering emotional harm (and they are, make no mistake) then getting her out of there should be priority one.
you just posted this - perhaps others will come along and give some ideas, but perhaps even just telling her she needs to leave and can come back to her family once she has sobered up, will cause her to actually do it. wringing his hands with you lending an ear isn't very productive.
and i apologize if i am coming across as insensitive - it is not my intent. like i said, it's just a hunch.
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
hi Wanman - and welcome to SR!
wow. Three similar threads in an hour....
has me kinda sayin...'hmmmm'.
First -
when you said your friend went to Alanon,
but when the wife stjopped
and then HE quit going -
that said something to me
about the addiction to addicts.
Programs of recovery like AlAnon
and Alcoholics Anonymous
aren't 'lifestyles'.
They're LIFE.
Life savers. Life paths.
And I've learned that without a full committment to either-
- neither works.
I have to advise that your friend
go back to Alanon -
and KEEP going back.
Until something changes.
Ad then -
go back again.
Lastly - speaking as an alcoholic myself -
I can say that
when an alcoholic knows
they're buffered in their addiction
they will not stop.
Almost every alcohoic with any quality recovery time
that I know - myself included -
had to hit bottom.
That means -
the buffer has to be gone.
Or nothing changes.
Just food for thought.
Again - welcome to SR!
wow. Three similar threads in an hour....
has me kinda sayin...'hmmmm'.
First -
when you said your friend went to Alanon,
but when the wife stjopped
and then HE quit going -
that said something to me
about the addiction to addicts.
Programs of recovery like AlAnon
and Alcoholics Anonymous
aren't 'lifestyles'.
They're LIFE.
Life savers. Life paths.
And I've learned that without a full committment to either-
- neither works.
I have to advise that your friend
go back to Alanon -
and KEEP going back.
Until something changes.
Ad then -
go back again.
Lastly - speaking as an alcoholic myself -
I can say that
when an alcoholic knows
they're buffered in their addiction
they will not stop.
Almost every alcohoic with any quality recovery time
that I know - myself included -
had to hit bottom.
That means -
the buffer has to be gone.
Or nothing changes.
Just food for thought.
Again - welcome to SR!
Awakening
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Beautiful Texas hillcountry
Posts: 1,272
I was exactly where your friend is 3 years ago.
I hired a college student nanny who would be at my home at 5:15 am, and get my daughter up and to school so I could get to work on time. She was with us 2 years. Now that my dd rides the bus, she helps out on school holidays etc.. If we don't get to see her for several weeks we call her up and all go to a movie. Then there is the after care program at school till 6pm.
We lost our house and had to move to an apt., my bed is in the living room. My daughters teacher and school knew what was going on and the principal offered me a voucher to continue at his school even though I moved out of his district. He didn't want my daughters life upset even more than it already was. He's a good man.
I went to Alanon and made friends and people came out of the wood work to help me and my daughter.
It can be done.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
I hired a college student nanny who would be at my home at 5:15 am, and get my daughter up and to school so I could get to work on time. She was with us 2 years. Now that my dd rides the bus, she helps out on school holidays etc.. If we don't get to see her for several weeks we call her up and all go to a movie. Then there is the after care program at school till 6pm.
We lost our house and had to move to an apt., my bed is in the living room. My daughters teacher and school knew what was going on and the principal offered me a voucher to continue at his school even though I moved out of his district. He didn't want my daughters life upset even more than it already was. He's a good man.
I went to Alanon and made friends and people came out of the wood work to help me and my daughter.
It can be done.
Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote
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