Trying to Stay Positive and Focused
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 436
Trying to Stay Positive and Focused
Hi to all reading
I am new to SoberRecovery but have been going to al-anon for several weeks now. I have been popping onto the site for a couple of weeks and thought that it may be a good time to introduce myself, as I am having a bad day.
I have been married for almost 22 years to AH. Only recently have I labeled the behavior in the merry go round of our marriage as down to alcoholism and have spent years and years trying to fix it. I always thought they were minor/major disagreements which alcohol made worse. Attending and reading Al-anon literature has led me to believe that alcohol has been the root of many of our problems.
I have left/asked him to leave the marital homes several times over the years, but mainly as a wake up call or to shake him up. I am usually the one who backs down though as I miss him and need him back. This I realise now, has made a mess of everything, as I am just full of idol threats and he knows it.
Anyway - I have told him I leaving him again following a couple of bad incidents involving alcohol this Xmas period and because he has also now began to bully and be emotionally/verbally abusive to our daughter, who is seeing a psychotherapist for her issues with her dad/I/life. I have been busy looking at places for my daughter (19yrs) and I to rent and have felt fairly calm that my decision is based on what is best for my daughter and I and not on giving him a wake up call this time. I am trying to get myself healthy and know now that I can not fix him, my daughter and I need some peace.
However, this afternoon he has accused me of being involved in a religious cult (al-anon) and said that they are trying to brainwash me. He follows that up with 'he likes to drink' and we would be ok if I wasn't being brainwashed. He loves me, but doesnt like me at the moment. I keep trying to sound positive with him by saying that I have given myself new boundaries and I dont want to live with an alcoholic anymore as I dont want to put up with his emotional and verbal abuse and neither does his daughter. He tries to make it about small incidents or disagreements that we have and I am trying to say that its not about those but the cause of them.
The confrontation left me feeling upset that he just doesnt get it and wondering if I really am involved in a cult and we would be ok if I wasnt being brainwashed. I am also questioning my motives about leaving him again, or if I put my daughter first, and she leaves then I will no one. (He said I was choosing her over him)
Any words of wisdom out there?
I am new to SoberRecovery but have been going to al-anon for several weeks now. I have been popping onto the site for a couple of weeks and thought that it may be a good time to introduce myself, as I am having a bad day.
I have been married for almost 22 years to AH. Only recently have I labeled the behavior in the merry go round of our marriage as down to alcoholism and have spent years and years trying to fix it. I always thought they were minor/major disagreements which alcohol made worse. Attending and reading Al-anon literature has led me to believe that alcohol has been the root of many of our problems.
I have left/asked him to leave the marital homes several times over the years, but mainly as a wake up call or to shake him up. I am usually the one who backs down though as I miss him and need him back. This I realise now, has made a mess of everything, as I am just full of idol threats and he knows it.
Anyway - I have told him I leaving him again following a couple of bad incidents involving alcohol this Xmas period and because he has also now began to bully and be emotionally/verbally abusive to our daughter, who is seeing a psychotherapist for her issues with her dad/I/life. I have been busy looking at places for my daughter (19yrs) and I to rent and have felt fairly calm that my decision is based on what is best for my daughter and I and not on giving him a wake up call this time. I am trying to get myself healthy and know now that I can not fix him, my daughter and I need some peace.
However, this afternoon he has accused me of being involved in a religious cult (al-anon) and said that they are trying to brainwash me. He follows that up with 'he likes to drink' and we would be ok if I wasn't being brainwashed. He loves me, but doesnt like me at the moment. I keep trying to sound positive with him by saying that I have given myself new boundaries and I dont want to live with an alcoholic anymore as I dont want to put up with his emotional and verbal abuse and neither does his daughter. He tries to make it about small incidents or disagreements that we have and I am trying to say that its not about those but the cause of them.
The confrontation left me feeling upset that he just doesnt get it and wondering if I really am involved in a cult and we would be ok if I wasnt being brainwashed. I am also questioning my motives about leaving him again, or if I put my daughter first, and she leaves then I will no one. (He said I was choosing her over him)
Any words of wisdom out there?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: norwich, uk
Posts: 80
I would say that your AH is also trying to brainwash you. Alot of people on here call it Quacking. Alanon is not a cult. Keep going on your path, he is trying to get you to back down because if you leave him he has no enabler.
You are doing really well, you and your daughter need to leave him.
When he starts speaking to you imagine he is quacking. It will get easier
You are doing really well, you and your daughter need to leave him.
When he starts speaking to you imagine he is quacking. It will get easier
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
hello yesbutnobut...
yes, he is quacking. see, that has always worked in the past, hasn't it? alcohlics have a tendency to minimize. mine would bully me, intimidate me, throw me around and in the morning, act as if nothing had happened. and there i sat, sober, with all my very valid feelings being minimized as if it was no big deal.
alanon is not a cult! he is threatened by your new found self empowerment so he points the finger at them. don't listen. in one ear, out the other, like water off a duck's back.
i am glad to hear that you are moving for you and your daughter, and not to make some point to him. good for you.
it took me years also to put together that alcohol was the root of our dysfunctional relationship. once i got here, and started reading the other stories, it quickly became apparent to me.
stick around. you'll find lots of support here for you and your daughter.
welcome again,
naive
yes, he is quacking. see, that has always worked in the past, hasn't it? alcohlics have a tendency to minimize. mine would bully me, intimidate me, throw me around and in the morning, act as if nothing had happened. and there i sat, sober, with all my very valid feelings being minimized as if it was no big deal.
alanon is not a cult! he is threatened by your new found self empowerment so he points the finger at them. don't listen. in one ear, out the other, like water off a duck's back.
i am glad to hear that you are moving for you and your daughter, and not to make some point to him. good for you.
it took me years also to put together that alcohol was the root of our dysfunctional relationship. once i got here, and started reading the other stories, it quickly became apparent to me.
stick around. you'll find lots of support here for you and your daughter.
welcome again,
naive
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Welcome to the SR family!
Thank you for taking the time to introduce yourself. We're glad you are here!
I am sorry that your husband has made alcohol his priority. I'm sorry that he has not been the husband/father that you and your daughter needed him to be.
Your attending Alanon is for you. Your health and your future. Good on you! I became a better friend, co-worker, mother and ME by attending Alanon meetings, joining SR and reading lots and lots of books. It's about time I started taking care of the most important person in my life, me.
I left my AH (alcoholic husband) of 14 years and took my 2 teenagers with me. I had started attending Alanon and was active on this forum. I needed all the support I could get.
Because I still loved my AH more than myself, I was subject to his manipulations, guilt trips, blame shifting, denial and minimizing. I was left feeling like I could not make any healthy decisions and was a crazy lady. One of the tools I used to keep my focus when the quacking started was a scrap of paper I still keep in my wallet. It says:
___________'s love comes with:
Drunkenness
Emotional Instability
Physical Illness
Legal Problems
Power Plays
Manipulation
Depression
I refer to that list when I start to have doubts about myself and my decisions.
I want to give you a head's up on alcoholic quacking: it tends to increase in volume and frequency the more independent the partner becomes. It can also become violent.
Please continue to take care of yourself and your daughter. You are worth the effort :ghug3
Thank you for taking the time to introduce yourself. We're glad you are here!
I am sorry that your husband has made alcohol his priority. I'm sorry that he has not been the husband/father that you and your daughter needed him to be.
Your attending Alanon is for you. Your health and your future. Good on you! I became a better friend, co-worker, mother and ME by attending Alanon meetings, joining SR and reading lots and lots of books. It's about time I started taking care of the most important person in my life, me.
I left my AH (alcoholic husband) of 14 years and took my 2 teenagers with me. I had started attending Alanon and was active on this forum. I needed all the support I could get.
Because I still loved my AH more than myself, I was subject to his manipulations, guilt trips, blame shifting, denial and minimizing. I was left feeling like I could not make any healthy decisions and was a crazy lady. One of the tools I used to keep my focus when the quacking started was a scrap of paper I still keep in my wallet. It says:
___________'s love comes with:
Drunkenness
Emotional Instability
Physical Illness
Legal Problems
Power Plays
Manipulation
Depression
I refer to that list when I start to have doubts about myself and my decisions.
I want to give you a head's up on alcoholic quacking: it tends to increase in volume and frequency the more independent the partner becomes. It can also become violent.
Please continue to take care of yourself and your daughter. You are worth the effort :ghug3
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: England
Posts: 741
Why shouldn't you put your daughter before your husband? I'm not saying you are, but so what if you where!!
Quacking is all the stuff alcoholics say when they're trying to shift the blame away from themselves and on to other things. If you take a stand back and detach from it you can see it clearly for the manipulation it really is.
They will say ANYTHING to be able to carry on drinking and have things exactly how they want it.
When I found this forum and began to change and stand up for myself he didn't like it, told me I was listening to a bunch of idiots and I shouldn't believe everything I read.
Ok, so who is better to listen to? Al-anon or this forum....places dedicated to helping people, sharing experiences and hope, supporting each other without judgement etc.
OR
A man/woman who has been drinking for 20+ years, someone who's brain is so pickled from alcohol misuse they can't see the wood for the trees.
Someone who wants everything their way. Someone who wants to convince you that you're in the wrong and there's nothing wrong with having a partner who's drunk and causing problems all the time.
He's just trying to manipulate you because you're rocking his boat.
Quacking is all the stuff alcoholics say when they're trying to shift the blame away from themselves and on to other things. If you take a stand back and detach from it you can see it clearly for the manipulation it really is.
They will say ANYTHING to be able to carry on drinking and have things exactly how they want it.
When I found this forum and began to change and stand up for myself he didn't like it, told me I was listening to a bunch of idiots and I shouldn't believe everything I read.
Ok, so who is better to listen to? Al-anon or this forum....places dedicated to helping people, sharing experiences and hope, supporting each other without judgement etc.
OR
A man/woman who has been drinking for 20+ years, someone who's brain is so pickled from alcohol misuse they can't see the wood for the trees.
Someone who wants everything their way. Someone who wants to convince you that you're in the wrong and there's nothing wrong with having a partner who's drunk and causing problems all the time.
He's just trying to manipulate you because you're rocking his boat.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
yesbutno--
He tries to make it about small incidents or disagreements that we have and I am trying to say that its not about those but the cause of them.
Trying to argue with an active alcoholic is pointless at best and dangerous and crazy-making at worst.
If he tries to argue this with you in this way again just try the non-response. I learned this from someone in AlAnon and it has made a huge difference in being able to maintain my peace of mind when I have to talk to the alcoholics I love or find myself in a room with them when they are quacking.
I just say a thoughtful "Hunh."
or
"I hear what you're saying."
or
"Oh."
I neither agree nor disagree, and I just get away from them asap.
Also once I fully accepted alcoholism for what it is I found it best to believe exactly what they say & show me. So if he says
'he likes to drink'
I would say "I believe you, I know you do. And I am just getting out of your way because I don't like to be around your drinking. This way we both get what we want."
It's great you are going to AlAnon and since it is working for you it does not matter what anyone especially an alcoholic thinks about it! AlAnon is not a cult!! It saved my life. Do alcoholics like it when we change? Absolutely not. Will they say ANYTHING to keep us in our old sick patterns that allow King Alcohol to rule the house: you betcha! Always remember nothing gets in the way of their drinking. Nothing.
Picture this when he talks:
and stick to your plan that will bring you and Dear Daughter much needed peace of mind. Nothing changes if nothing changes, and while change is hard, it is also inevitable. Working for positive change is so worth it!!
peace & welcome-
b
He tries to make it about small incidents or disagreements that we have and I am trying to say that its not about those but the cause of them.
Trying to argue with an active alcoholic is pointless at best and dangerous and crazy-making at worst.
If he tries to argue this with you in this way again just try the non-response. I learned this from someone in AlAnon and it has made a huge difference in being able to maintain my peace of mind when I have to talk to the alcoholics I love or find myself in a room with them when they are quacking.
I just say a thoughtful "Hunh."
or
"I hear what you're saying."
or
"Oh."
I neither agree nor disagree, and I just get away from them asap.
Also once I fully accepted alcoholism for what it is I found it best to believe exactly what they say & show me. So if he says
'he likes to drink'
I would say "I believe you, I know you do. And I am just getting out of your way because I don't like to be around your drinking. This way we both get what we want."
It's great you are going to AlAnon and since it is working for you it does not matter what anyone especially an alcoholic thinks about it! AlAnon is not a cult!! It saved my life. Do alcoholics like it when we change? Absolutely not. Will they say ANYTHING to keep us in our old sick patterns that allow King Alcohol to rule the house: you betcha! Always remember nothing gets in the way of their drinking. Nothing.
Picture this when he talks:
and stick to your plan that will bring you and Dear Daughter much needed peace of mind. Nothing changes if nothing changes, and while change is hard, it is also inevitable. Working for positive change is so worth it!!peace & welcome-
b
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 220
Welcome to SR! My husband has used this same argument whenever I joined a bible study or really anything that takes the focus off of HIM and onto ME. Al-Anon is not a cult! It is a wonderful place full of wonderful people who are all struggling with the same issues. I admire your strength and your courage! Keep the focus on you and you will grow.
Hugs to you! Ker
Hugs to you! Ker
Seeking Serenity
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 144
Welcome ybn...
Al Anon and this forum are designed to help people like us who live or have lived with alcoholics. No one understands you better than us.
We are not a cult. We are a group of people with battle scars to prove what living with someone who drinks can do to you mentally, physically, and emotionally. That includes the children of alcoholics.
He is threatened by your new found knowledge. He liked you in the dark. This way he had a free pass to do what he pleased. Now he has to be more accountable to you because you finally recognize the illness you are dealing with. Too bad for him! You are entitled to a life that works for you as well as your daughter.
One of the wonderful things I learned here and at Al Anon is that:
I didn't cause it...
I can't control it...
I can't cure it...
When you embrace those 3 C's and realize that all you can control is yourself...life will begin to make more sense. When life starts to make sense...real change can happen.
Listen closely...your life is calling!
Take care of yourself and your daughter. Don't be so hard on yourself. You are walking a path that MANY people have walked before you. The best part is...we do get better.
(((HUGS TO YOU AND YOUR DAUGHTER)))
Al Anon and this forum are designed to help people like us who live or have lived with alcoholics. No one understands you better than us.
We are not a cult. We are a group of people with battle scars to prove what living with someone who drinks can do to you mentally, physically, and emotionally. That includes the children of alcoholics.
He is threatened by your new found knowledge. He liked you in the dark. This way he had a free pass to do what he pleased. Now he has to be more accountable to you because you finally recognize the illness you are dealing with. Too bad for him! You are entitled to a life that works for you as well as your daughter.
One of the wonderful things I learned here and at Al Anon is that:
I didn't cause it...
I can't control it...
I can't cure it...
When you embrace those 3 C's and realize that all you can control is yourself...life will begin to make more sense. When life starts to make sense...real change can happen.
Listen closely...your life is calling!
Take care of yourself and your daughter. Don't be so hard on yourself. You are walking a path that MANY people have walked before you. The best part is...we do get better.
(((HUGS TO YOU AND YOUR DAUGHTER)))
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
He loves me, but doesnt like me at the moment
that the NICEST people in the world
people who could otherwise SHAME Mother Theresa
turn to DOO-DOO when their illusions are threatened.
So, unless your'e the first-rate confrontational toe-stepper *I* tend to be,
(with the scars and crisis poverty level to prove it)
my recommendation is to follow Bernadette's advice.
And make your plan.
Welcome to the forum!
I hope you find the companionship and understanding I've found here.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: jefferson pa
Posts: 14
I wanted to say hello and i too have heard the same ...My AH says all of this ..I read your post and couldnt believe how much it resembled my own conversations with my husband .. I have read these post for years and had a different screen name ( lost the password. ) but yes had read from time to time the post and advice and it finally has clicked in me in the past two months or so ..now when he talks I say to myself yep thats quaking ....and remember that his whole goal is to continue to live in the denial and continue to suck me into the merry go round too ....so keep coming back and reading and you will hold onto your strength .
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 436
Thanks guys for all your welcomes, words of wisdom and support, hopefully I can repay on this site in the coming months as I grow personally stronger.
I like the term quacking and shall try to think of that from now on.
Also, over the years I have learnt not to argue with him when hes been drinking as there is no point as he is unreasonable and I am the one who ends up hurt or crying, but occasionally I forget or get caught up in the moment before I realise and try to end the confrontation.
Thanks for some of the useful tools that you have mentioned, they should help with remaining positive. I am struggling with that and mostly because I know that I am not going to manage financially very well at all, living as a single person, I have been doing my sums and they dont stack up, so that is very upsetting and frightening and making the decision to leave much harder.
Thanks to all who replied once again.
I like the term quacking and shall try to think of that from now on.
Also, over the years I have learnt not to argue with him when hes been drinking as there is no point as he is unreasonable and I am the one who ends up hurt or crying, but occasionally I forget or get caught up in the moment before I realise and try to end the confrontation.
Thanks for some of the useful tools that you have mentioned, they should help with remaining positive. I am struggling with that and mostly because I know that I am not going to manage financially very well at all, living as a single person, I have been doing my sums and they dont stack up, so that is very upsetting and frightening and making the decision to leave much harder.
Thanks to all who replied once again.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MASSACHUSETTS
Posts: 441
I can not believe how similar our stories are. I too am in a marriage of almost 22 years and have a teenage daughter 19 and also one 17. I too have done the threat of leaving or trying to get him to leave. Right now I am sticking to my guns because I know that this is a progressive disease and if I do not separate from him, he will be like see it didn't happen, things are good.
My husband's pattern is he stops for a while and then starts up again. He had a DUI last year and stopped for @ 6 months. I thought that was finally the end until I noticed that he was starting to drink again and hiding it. He is blaming me and feels he can control his drinking! HA you have a pending DUI case and your are still drinking :wtf2 You promised that the DUI finally woke you up and you will never drink again. My girls and I are definitely sick of the behavior when is drinking and do not want it around us anymore.
What helps me is to post here and read others posting. I have gone to Alanon but I just do not seem to connect that well, maybe I should give it another shot. I do like some of their slogans Easy does It and One Day at a Time. Focus on yourself and try to make a better life for yourself. Do not listen to him, this disease is progressive and it will get worse. I keep telling myself that these days so that I do not go backwards and forgive again. I have forgiven in the past and it does not help. I am trying to take the route that this is a medical condition and he needs treatment. If he had any other disease, I would not just sit back and let him slowly kill himself from it.
They have to decide that they want the help and follow through. Unfortunately, until they make that decision for themselves, it will be more of same. I do not want more of the same. We deserve better and so do our girls!!
Hang in there and keep coming back, it really does help.
My husband's pattern is he stops for a while and then starts up again. He had a DUI last year and stopped for @ 6 months. I thought that was finally the end until I noticed that he was starting to drink again and hiding it. He is blaming me and feels he can control his drinking! HA you have a pending DUI case and your are still drinking :wtf2 You promised that the DUI finally woke you up and you will never drink again. My girls and I are definitely sick of the behavior when is drinking and do not want it around us anymore.
What helps me is to post here and read others posting. I have gone to Alanon but I just do not seem to connect that well, maybe I should give it another shot. I do like some of their slogans Easy does It and One Day at a Time. Focus on yourself and try to make a better life for yourself. Do not listen to him, this disease is progressive and it will get worse. I keep telling myself that these days so that I do not go backwards and forgive again. I have forgiven in the past and it does not help. I am trying to take the route that this is a medical condition and he needs treatment. If he had any other disease, I would not just sit back and let him slowly kill himself from it.
They have to decide that they want the help and follow through. Unfortunately, until they make that decision for themselves, it will be more of same. I do not want more of the same. We deserve better and so do our girls!!
Hang in there and keep coming back, it really does help.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
POISON, every single word that comes out of his mouth is poison. The question for you is, why do you keep inviting him in to fill your head full of poison? On SR we call it "quacking," which is a funny way of saying that you can pretty much ignore everything he says, and should ignore what he says. But to me, it is more insidious than that. That poison keeps you wrapped up in it, keeps you sick, and makes it all the more difficult to escape. That is the nature of the disease.
When you find yourself TALKING to him, try to accept that the reason is because you WANT something from him. What is it that you want? Do you want your feelings validated by him? If so, try to realize that you will not get them validated there; keep going back to al-anon. Seek validation and understanding elsewhere. Shift your focus onto yourself and what you need to do to care for yourself; what YOU want for YOUR life and your daughter.
When you have found yourself in the middle of a conversation with this person, take two giant steps backward, stop talking, and just observe. The more you learn, the easier it will become to see clearly what he is doing, the less it will hurt and confuse you.
You are right, he DOESN'T get it and he has not gotten it in 22 years. RUN and don't look back. And STOP talking to him, unless it is something practical that is absolutely necessary that needs to be discussed.
When you find yourself TALKING to him, try to accept that the reason is because you WANT something from him. What is it that you want? Do you want your feelings validated by him? If so, try to realize that you will not get them validated there; keep going back to al-anon. Seek validation and understanding elsewhere. Shift your focus onto yourself and what you need to do to care for yourself; what YOU want for YOUR life and your daughter.
When you have found yourself in the middle of a conversation with this person, take two giant steps backward, stop talking, and just observe. The more you learn, the easier it will become to see clearly what he is doing, the less it will hurt and confuse you.
You are right, he DOESN'T get it and he has not gotten it in 22 years. RUN and don't look back. And STOP talking to him, unless it is something practical that is absolutely necessary that needs to be discussed.
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