RoadkillofLife

My 21 yo son is in his final year at college. Freshman yr got in trouble for drinking, went to mandated alcohol counseling and seemed to understand he had a problem. Didn't drink soph year and some in junior year. Sr year is now off campus in house w/ 3 roommates who party. Has bought into the whole "it's my senior year" and "I've got it under control" mindset. We told him no drinking to finish the 1st semester or he wouldn't go back for 2nd and he seemed to cut back (but found out over Christmas break that he hadn't stopped drinking). Sat him down for many talks and sent him back to school with some conditions.

I am ACOA, I said no drinking. Dad is a normal, said no more than 2 for a special occasion (which should be rare). I say cut the boy off if he disobeys. Dad says don't make it about money. I say no spring break. Dad says if he goes to counseling, doesn't drink and gets good grades, he can go.

He's been back at school for 5 days. We find out he has been drinking. Somewhere between the two beers last night to a lot more on Monday and Tuesday nights. He doesn't tell us. He tells a gf/ex-gf. Somedays he reaches out to her and admits he needs help. Other days she is his punching bag for the verbal venom he should be directing at himself. He's an angry belligerent drunk, esp when drinking hard alcohol. Can drink several drinks or can put away ridiculous amounts and still act sober to those who don't know him. Unfortunately he's a high functioning alcoholic. I don't trust him. Dad wants to believe he's telling us the truth.

So what do we do? Wait for him to decide he needs help and support him financially? Bring him home and require him to attend rehab? Dad says he's an adult now. I say, yah, but we're footing the bill, we get to impose some rules.
While he is a fulltime student, he has access to school counselling, etc and our health insurance. But if we pull him out in order to get him help, he doesn't. But he doesn't have the self control, discipline or inclination right now to do it on his own.

I think there is a huge problem. Dad thinks he will grow up.

Any advice would be great.
Weary mom and Denying dad

barb dwyer

Wow.

Well, ... welcome, Roadkill ... welcome to SR.

Hang out for a while, I'm sure others will be along shortly to welcome you to the forum.

I'm a bit rigid on this topic,
I'm not one to condone helping someone kill themselves, or an associate.
Financing one's binges,
is just something I would not be doing.

However-
I'm sure there's others who read SR who can speak with you
more intelligently than I can on the topic.

I'll just say my hello's and welcome's and get out of their way.

kellthebelle

Hi RoadKill,

My oldest son is 19 and at college for his first year. My exah is his stepdad and so I worry about him being an alcoholic. He is definitley drinking and going to parties with his friends. I know that when I went to college and university drinking, partying and going to bars was part of the life. It is pretty "normal" during those years from what I can tell from talking to other parents. I talk to my son about having balance in his life and when he chooses to drink and carry on to be responsible and safe. I have found in the past with him that the bigger deal I make of an issue the bigger the issue becomes.

Just my two cents, hope it helps.

Kell

Pelican

Welcome to the Sober Recovery Family!

I'm glad you found us. You will find lots of information and support for yourself here.

I'm sorry that your son is playing with fire by binge drinking. It's a dangerous game at any age. I have a daughter living on her own and she worried me while she was partying. I worried about her getting a DUI or into other trouble with friends. I have talked with her and she knows that drinking is not something she should play around with because she is the daughter of alcoholics. She also knows that I will not bail her out in any way if she gets into trouble because of alcohol. She also knows that I will not give her money to pay her bills when she spent her paycheck partying. I'm not sure how much she drinks or how often anymore. We live in different states. She knows I am available to her anytime, and she also knows my boundaries.

This is something from your post that stands out to me:
But if we pull him out in order to get him help, he doesn't. But he doesn't have the self control, discipline or inclination right now to do it on his own.

IF you pull him out and force him into rehab or counseling there are no guarantees that you will solve his alcoholism. Especially based on the second sentence that he doesn't have the inclination presently to take action.

I am a recovering alcoholic. I am also a recovering codependent. I'm a fixer! I'm a controller! I'm in recovery. I tell you that because as an alcoholic, there wasn't anything anyone could do for me to get me to stop drinking. I had to want sobriety for myself more than I wanted my husband, marriage, children and career. If I didn't want it more than all those things, I was gonna loose it all to my alcoholism. Alcohol consumed my days. Alcohol was my priority. I had to want to re-arrange my priority list and remove alcohol. Until I was ready, it was staying as my priority.

I don't have the answers you want. I just wanted to share with you that until your son is motivated to make the changes he needs to make in his lifestyle, you may not get the outcome you hope for with any plans you make.

I'm sorry you are frustrated. We are here to support you. We understand what it is like to have a loved one continually making poor choices. You are not alone!

Freedom1990

First of all, welcome to SR.

I don't have any easy quick-fix answers for you. Parenting can be difficult sometimes at best with both parents on the same page, never mind a situation like yours where you and hubby aren't on the same page.

I learned a lot of things the hard way with my 31 year old alcoholic/addict daughter.

Have you considered getting some support for yourself during this difficult time? Alanon has been a lifesaver for me in getting face-to-face support from others who have been where I am, and understand.

There is also an excellent starter book by Melody Beattie called "Codependent No More" that really opened my eyes to the dynamics between my oldest daughter and me.

You didn't cause your son's alcoholism, you can't control it, and you can't cure it. Those are the 3 C's we learn in recovery.

I finally learned to set boundaries, what was acceptable, and what was unacceptable to me.

I did take my oldest daughter in against my better judgment after she had a lengthy jail sentence, and she turned my household upside down in less than a month.

She is no longer welcome in my home, and it's been that way for several years now.

She's been around recovery since she was 8 years old (I first got sober then), and she knows there is a better way to live.

She's an adult, and today I give her the dignity to make her own choices, right and wrong.

The money train stopped on my end a long time ago. She's a clever girl and has managed to survive without my assistance for a long time now.

She was on the cusp of graduating from technical college many moons ago as a medical assistant, and managed to screw that one up by getting kicked out for non-attendance just 3 weeks before classes ended. That was on her dime, not mine.

She's never finished her education, and that is her choice.

My life is full and blessed, in spite of what she does/doesn't do with her life.

I took the plunge to finish my college education at age 50, and am starting my 4th semester full-time in a little over a week.

I hope you continue to post here, and again, welcome to SR!

Spiritual Seeker

He is an adult and can go to spring break if he wants...but if I were his parent it certainly wouldn't be on my dime. I never funded partying.

A condition to keep paying for educ absolutely could be dependent on seeing his grades from 1st semester. If he is pulling passing grades off then let him continue to hold his life together w/o all the controlling rules.
If he is in serious trouble with addiction you have leverage to get him to go to treatment and take a leave of abs. from school.

RoadkillofLife

T minus 5 days to his spring break cruise on his dime. We set conditions like counselling and grades and working out (exercise helps) and he snowed us with the "I'm doing better routine". We found out that he blacked out on Friday, drank alot Saturday and Monday (yesterday) and has been drunk most every weekend.

I'm absolutely terrified he will fall overboard, get robbed or worse in any of the ports of call. He cut me off his Facebook so now I don't know day to day what's going on. Dad has an ambivilant attitude - "what can we do? he's an adult".

If we confront him on the lying, he'll get even angrier and drink more. If we tell him we know the truth about this weekend, he'll get mad at the gf (they're back on this week) and cut her out and potentially then may miss her or get despondent while on the cruise. But if we don't, he won't be accountable.

Help! any advice?

suki44883

Saying this as gently as possible....

Mom, you need to let go. Of course you love your son, but he is 21 years old and it's time for him to learn about life and make mistakes. He'll face the consequences on his own if you will follow your husband's lead and acknowledge that your son is now an adult, and as such, is bound to make some decisions you won't like. I know it's difficult, but if you hope to have a good relationship with your son, you have to learn to let go.

coffeedrinker

i don't think we do our children any favors by giving, giving, and giving to them. he's a college student, he needs to learn and enter his field. he doesn't need cruises, a car, a decked-out apartment, or even new clothes. i have the sense that this boy has experienced a lot of treats in his life, which is only harmful if he now feels he can't live without that level of luxury, or if he feels entitled. and only if he doesn't have a true sense of responsibility. i'm only bringing this up because the less he has had to work for (grades, stuff, respect) the less may respond to consequences you are now trying to put into place.

go to al-anon, and i believe there is a huge, fundamental issue between you and your husband. couples counseling??

good luck. i am of the belief that when this is going on, they don't "grow out of it".

Learn2Live

You did not cause it, you cannot control it and you cannot cure it.

On a personal note: I don't think it makes one bit of difference whether or not you pay for his college, his cruises, his christmas, or whatever. Nobody paid for ANYTHING for me at that age and I STILL drank like a fish and acted the alcoholic I am.

The most helpful question is, are you, by paying his way, enabling? If you would pay for his college, his spring break, and other things if he WASN'T partying, then IMO you are not enabling. In fact, by NOT paying when you previously said you would, you are IMO trying to manipulate him into not drinking.

Go to Al-Anon.
Let Go and Let God.
Take care of yourself.

wanting

My first reaction to reading this was, "Holy crap, what a control freak!" HOWEVER...I'd be a liar if I said I'd never been there. I think I really tried to hyper-manage my AH's drinking and it only made things worse for all of us, probably especially for me. At least he could drink to escape from me. I had to live with me all the time. I would really recommend Al-Anon, so that you can focus on yourself and how you can set healthy boundaries without interfering with your son's God-given right to learn and make mistakes and grow.

FindingPeace1

This post really struck me.

As a codependent, we confuse love with lots of other stuff. Feeling terrified he might do something: fall overboard, get robbed or worse, get angrier and drink more, get mad at the girlfriend and cut her off, get despondent, not be accountable.
This is obsessing. Feeling terror for your adult son's choices is slowly killing you. Codependency is all about our energy fussing outwardly. We worry about THEM. Think about THEM. THEIR feelings, their actions, their reactions.
We try to talk and act in ways that will get them to drink less, be more responsible, feel okay.


That's manipulation.


Harsh, I know. It's manipulation with darn good intent. We all do it. But it's us wanting to control them (for the good, mind you!) And it seems OBVIOUS that NOT drinking and being responsible and not lying is better than drinking and lying and getting in trouble. It's a no-brainer, right? But, ultimately, only your son gets to decide for himself what is the right way to live.
Meanwhile, you are driving yourself crazy feeling terrified.

A number of people have said it. Try letting go.

Letting go doesn't mean being in denial. It means recognizing you can't control him.
Spying on him, checking up on him, asking others to keep track of him is not healthy for you or him.

But the boundaries others have talked about here are for you. How do YOU protect YOU so YOU feel okay? What kind of boundary can you set that is do-able? Grades seem like a good one because you can find out with the school. Bad grades, no funding from us. That kind of thing. Then your energy becomes about you protecting yourself from funding someone who is blowing your money in a way that feels bad (to you) and you can stop obsessing on his behavior. (wouldn't that be nice!)

Don't get me wrong. It totally sucks. My husband drinks and lies and hides. I hate it and I think he's hurting himself and me.
But I can't control it. And my obsessing on it is not serving either of us.

I would reiterate, pick up a copy of Codependent No More by Melody Beattie and go to at least a few Alanon or Codependent's Anonymous meetings. They will help you see things in a new way.

You're not alone. The transition from feeling terrified to letting go seems like an eternity. It's not, though.
Try reading the stickies at the top of the forum. They have tons of good info, too.

Stick around.
Hugs,
w

Insulated

your son is a grown man living in a house of his own. why should he abide by ANY rules mom & dad try to implement? just keep sending money and paying tuition...

your only form of control IS the money.

RoadkillofLife

Is it wrong to put conditions on the THOUSANDS of dollars we are spending on his education? That makes me manipulative and a control freak?! We are sacrificing our life and savings to give him the advantages of a good degree and I'm overstepping my bounds? When he is out on his own paying for his room, board, insurance, medical, car THEN I believe I have no say.Then I will let go. But right now, he relies on us for everything. And legally because we are providing for him, we are still responsible.

I don't get your statements to let go. Isn't setting conditions on the money protecting myself? I won't co-sign on a car if he drinks, because I don't want to get sued. How is that being a control freak? (btw I live in a litagious state.)

RoadkillofLife

my last post was written and rewritten and rewritten again because everyone is calling me a control freak and manipulative. I am completely concerned about his drinking but trying to explain my "manipulative behavior" and why I think I still can have a say in what he does.

I am totally concerned that because he hasn't had to be responsible yet, he won't step up and be a man. I haven't any faith in him because he is drinking to the point of passing out and telling me he has in under control!

the money is moot at this point. except in the next few months when he seems himself as an adult now, yet not making adult decisions. when we could still lose everything if he drives or makes a bad choice.

wanting

Giving him money doesn't make you legally responsible if he gets in trouble for drinking. I'm not sure what his car situation is, but if his car is in your name, you can transfer title to him and have him get insurance in his own name. Or, if drinking and driving is a real problem for him, you could take away the car (assuming it's yours) altogether. But paying for his education is totally unrelated to his drinking. There's no element of protecting yourself there, just elements of control, which don't help you or him.

FindingPeace1

Of course, of course, of course you want to set boundaries around money to protect yourself.

Let me clarify something...
"Letting go" is recovery speak, for sure, and we use it glibly.

Let me explain a bit.

As codependents, and that is my perspective, and many whom have commented, we have a 3 prong animal to wrestle:
a) we don't know what we need/what boundaries to set
b) we don't want to set them or follow through on them
c) we'd rather spend our time obsessing on their bad behavior.

So, for me and my husband, I had to
a) figure out lying was not okay, communication about a number of topics was mandatory, and genuine apologies with a plan of action to not repeat the behavior was required for my partner,
b) now I have to follow through on those and leave the relationship if my boundaries are not honored.
c) lastly, I have to let go.

Meaning? Detach. That means none of the following:
* obsessing
* feeling terrified
* snooping on him
* checking up
* feeling constantly miserable
* worrying
* trying to get him to change
* trying to fix him
Essentially, running on the wheel of my mind and making myself miserable.
Because as they say, we didn't cause their behavior. We can't change it and we can't cure it.

We can do what we can do (set boundaries to protect ourselves) and then we have to let it go (in our minds for right now) for our own sanity.

We can come across as rough, but I promise, the folks here care deeply for you and are committed to your happiness and serenity in this situation.

Most of us claim our own codependency and acknowledge our own manipulation and controlling nature. (Hey, y'all - does someone have a link for Melody's checklist of codie behaviors? That might give everything some context).

I encourage you to read Codependent No More by Melody Beattie and see where many of us are coming from.

Hugs,
w

hello-kitty

Hi. Welcome.

I'm sorry that your son is drinking so much and that it's causing you so much pain. How are you finding out all this information? Perhaps the next time your source of information calls you to tell you what your son is doing, you can tell them that you don't want to hear about it anymore.

Distancing yourself from your son's problem will help restore some sanity and control back into your life - and maybe then you can think more clearly about the kind of boundaries you need to protect yourself.

If you want to stop paying for his college then stop. But you can't make him stop drinking. You've already tried... and it wasn't successful. All the forced counseling and treatment isn't going to get him to stop drinking either. This isn't something you can control or fix.

Have you looked into al-anon at all? As an ACOA you may find it very very helpful. Also the book by Melanie Beattie - codependent no more - may give you a little more peace as you work through your issues with his drinking.

marshallzhukov

If I understand correctly, he is in his final semester at college, and the tuition check has already been sent to the school.

If that is the case, even though he is morally obligated to take your concerns into account, even though that is what a non-addicted, considerate son would do, the fact that the money has already been paid means that you have no leverage, and if you have no leverage than truth be told, there is nothing that worrying about it or setting conditions can hope to accomplish.

You cannot rescind the money, nor are there additional semesters of school that you can refuse to pay for.

As long as he is not driving a car that is titled or insured in your name, then his behavior is his liability, and you cannot be held legally responsible.

Other people have alluded to the fact that he is an adult and that you must let go. They only say that because most of us on this site are very familiar with the utter futility of trying to control an alcoholic or get him/her to stop drinking. By trying to control this situation, by trying to get him sober, when in reality you do not have any bargaining chips with which to do so, is just going to make you in sane. It took me a long time to realize that the toxic people in my life were not going to change, and I was only making myself crazy by expecting that they would or making long range plans predicated on them doing so.

If something like 'spring break' still has a lot of currency with him, then chances are he is still enjoying his drinking enough that continuing it outweighs the negative consequences that will accompany it. Unfortunately if that is the case there is nothing much that you can do about it, period.

Let him graduate college - at this point it would be pointless to pull him out, even if you could, and a degree is something that will be invaluable to him if and when he chooses to get sober. If you were to force him to come home he would probably only resent you for it and choose to drink even more over that resentment.

The truth of the matter is with a college degree (or even without one) you have no further legal or moral obligation to provide for him. Even if he were not an A or causing you trouble it would still not be at all out of order for you to set an expectation that he is now out of school and therefore must provide for himself. Most parents do this out of sheer financial necessity, if nothing else.

Like many of today's youth, once he is out in the 'real world,' he is going to learn a tough lesson - the day starts at 8am, not 11; Friday is still a weekday; showing up at work hungover is not tolerated; blowing all his money on partying when he has to make rent is going to put him out on the street.

You said that he has never had to 'step up and be a man,' because he has never had any responsibility. Provided you do not give into his manipulation or requests for money, that point will come once he is out in the real world, and then possibly things will change.

I guess my question is, are you willing to set boundaries and uphold them? If you get the call at the end of the month and he can't make ends meet, can he expect a check in the mail? If you get the call in the middle of the night from the jailhouse, will he bailed out for the DUI he just received?

Just some things to think about. I hope everything works out one way or another.

MZ

Learn2Live

Hi RoadKill, I am sorry you are frustrated I see in your posts ways that I used to think, act, and speak myself, and these things indicate to me personally that you may benefit from going to Al-Anon. The responses you are reading here show a different perspective on "your problem" than you perhaps expected. I think you may have expected that others would respond that they thought you are right and justified and that is not the reaction you got so perhaps you are irritated?

While I feel that you HAVE the right to your feelings and I understand your frustrations, I personally do not judge anyone's actions in terms of "right" and "wrong" other than in the moral sense. So, no, I don't think what you are doing is "wrong," but I do think you are trying to manipulate and control a 21 year old man into doing what YOU think he should do. It is important to note RoadKill that I did not say YOU ARE "manipulative and a control freak," I said you are trying to manipulate and control (these are behaviors, what you are DOING, not what I might think you ARE, not judgments).

I do think you are saying that you are ENTITLED to do this because you are paying his way. But please try to understand that just because you pay someone's way through college does NOT give you the right to know every little detail of his life and control how he lives it. I assure you that if the scholarships, grants, and stipends I got all through college stipulated that someone else would get to make my decisions and control my life, I would NOT have taken the money. Have you given the 21 year old man you speak of the same choice? Or did this money come with hidden, unspoken expectations and requirements?

If what he is doing is bothering you so much, then stop "sacrificing" your life (which I doubt is what you are really doing) and let him get his education himself. Did he ASK you to pay his room, board, insurance, medical, car, vacations, etc?

In case you didn't notice RoadKillofLife, you already HAVE no say in this, as is apparent from his behavior and your inability to control him despite your efforts.

What do you imagine you are protecting yourself from? I do not see how you are "legally still responsible" in ANY state, given the fact that he is a fully grown adult, old enough to walk into any bar in the world and buy himself a drink. And no, I do not suggest buying a 21 year old man a car. ALL men over the age of 5 should pay for their OWN cars.

I'm sorry if this angers you but again, I recommend you go to Al-Anon. Then "let go" will begin to make more sense. Either that or just listen to what your husband is telling you.