deracs

My AH is 55 days sober. Life is so much better without the drinking but he still holds me responsible for everything. Still says I caused the stress that led to the drinking - always threatens to leave and says he only stays b/c of our child. During his drinking I forgave his namecalling, random urination in inappropriate places, violent outbursts, threats and screaming in front of our child, etc. I apologized, I tried to help, I tried to be better so he'd be better. I finally left and he stopped drinking.
Now I am back and even though he is sober he still will not apologize, still points the finger at me. Even after all of the HORRIBLE things he did, the slightest infraction by me (I lost my temper but then immediately apologized) warranted a day of not talking to me and then a night of yelling at me. Then magically, when the "punishment" is over he doesn't understnad why I'm so sad and hurt and why I do not trust him. I said to him today I no longer wonder if he will leave me, I only wonder when.
Why is he still angry? Why is he still blaming me?

GiveLove

What are you getting out of this relationship, deracs?

Unfortunately, some people are that way because they ARE that way. Popular wisdom says they are angry and self-centered because they drink....but my experience has been that many drink because they are angry and self-centered. Take away the alcohol and you still have a jerk.

Is that going to be good enough for you? If this is what you will be living with forever, is that going to be okay? Do you have any boundaries around how you're willing to be treated? This would be unacceptable to me...what is one thing you could do that would prevent him from pulling this act again?

Is he working a program of any kind? Or is he just abstaining from drinking? These are two very different things.

sailorjohn

JME, but there is a difference between being 'without the drinking' and being 'sober'. Hopefully your husband will reach that point of sobriety sometime in the not-too-distant future. In the meantime, absent any change on his part, expect more of the same.

soberinwpg

Is he doing the steps?

stella27

Do you kind of wish that he would leave? That's the point I got to. When I realized that my house and my life were better without him in it, I stopped letting him call the shots.

Ives

I was reading how being the spouse of an active addict is akin to handing over all of your power to that person. This man is using emotional blackmail against you, like mine has.

freya

Well, the way I look at it, a sober alcoholic is, by definition, taking -- or at least in the process of learning how to take -- responsibility for his/her actions. I personally would not refer to an alcoholic who was not doing that as "sober," but, rather, as "dry."

And 55 days is still very, very early in recovery. I've read several things over the last couple of years that say that it is not even until the 90 day point that brain chemistry returns to anything remotely resemble "normal."

And, finally, why are you waiting for him to leave? You have that same option yourself.

freya

deracs

thanks to all of you for your responses. Your observations are all correct. I do not leave because when I left 2 months ago it was a burden on my family (although they are very supportive) and to upset my child's routine like that again would break my heart - there's just no way to explain to him what's happening - he's too young. My A is not going to meetings (but he does have a sponsor) and I do not believe he is working the steps.
There is a deep-seated anger there for sure regarding his family issues, etc.

He has attempted counseling but claims to know all that "they" know and more by virtue of his own profession - which ironically he is very good at - and it's helping people overcome addiction! That is one of the reasons I have not gone back to Al-Anon and he has not attended any AA meetings. It's very lonely b/c everyone thinks he's the greatest-they literally have no idea of the truth- that's why I finally started posting here - I need someone to talk to who gets it.

And yes, sometimes I wish he would just leave - then I wouldn't feel guilty over my child's reaction (like last time) and I won't have to deal with uprooting us - let my A be uprooted. Does 90 days really make a difference chemically? If so, that gives me something to look forward to -

Still Waters

Hahaha! My AH knows it all too, he's the expert. He hands out mental health advice like tic tacs. It's all me, I'm the one with the problem, he's perfectly fine especially since he's not drinking you know.

God, they're freaking nuts. Get far far far away - this will not get better, it will only evolve into something that makes today look like a walk in the park. The method of manipulation and emotional abuse he's using is working, and he'll only continue to use it rather than ever ever ever admit that HE might need some serious help.

At least that's been my experience with my utterly insane dry drunk husband.

IF he does decided to seek recovery, you'll know it by his actions - there is no rule anywhere that says you can't reevaluate the situation then, but until then - get that child (and yourself) someplace far away from that type of mind and psyche killing abuse.

My $.02.

Spiritual Seeker

another $.02 worth....whether he goes to AA should have nothing to do with you discontinuing al-anon. Get well and a fellowship for you.

Tally

90 days of abstaining means nothing. 90 days sober might. As someone above me said, there's a difference between stopping drinking and actually working a program. My A had 2 years of not drinking, still the same a**h*** he always was.

megan09

He doesn't sound like he WANTS to be sober and totally resents you for the fact he is. This is not good; a recovering addict has to want to be clean more than anything and will go to 'any lengths' to find help and achieve serenity. You are living with a very abusive person; when I stopped drinking 4 years ago I was shell-shocked and full of guilt and shame, but I did not blame anyone else or take it out on anybody. I was a broken person who had to rebuild herself piece by piece. I had to end a 9 year relationship with my then ABF who was always leaving me; once he left me because I told him not to add salt to our then 2 year olds boiled egg! They will find any excuse to go and drink. In the end the emotional trauma of being with him forced me to end the relationship and it was the hardest thing I have ever had to do, but I knew that I didn't deserve to be treated like that and I would no longer accept the 'crumbs' that were being thrown to me once in a while. I am still on my own 15 months later while he has a new GF. This was also difficult for me to accept but I have since discovered that she has a history of relationships with addicts, so she either uses herself or is a very sick lady herself. He has stopped seeing our 4 year old son, and while that hurt, I know believe that it may be for the best; what on earth would he teach him about behaviour and feelings and respect? I am still in therapy about MY issues and am starting to learn so much about myself. I have always attended AA and did an outpatient treatment programme which took a year to complete, one day a week. Thankfully, I was not helped by a 'fake' such as your husband; how he can help other addicts is beyond me - what on earth can he teach them? He doesn't even understand recovery! My thoughts and prayers are with you; you are worth so much more than you are getting.

Pelican

Why is he still angry? Why is he still blaming me?

I think you have answered your own questions when you stated:
I forgave his namecalling, random urination in inappropriate places, violent outbursts, threats and screaming in front of our child, etc. I apologized, I tried to help, I tried to be better so he'd be better.

When I was walking on eggshells in my marriage, I was trying to control the other person's behavior (reactions) with my behavior. I was making myself and my children crazy by trying harder, saying it louder, appologizing more, etc. I was trying to control another, yet I was the one being controlled. I was not free to express myself because I lived in fear of an adverse reaction.

I finally had to accept that I was not responsible for the actions/reactions of another adult.

Have you read Melody Beaties book "Codependent No More"? I found it helpful.

WizeDeb

Ive also read that when they started drinking is the maturity level they are stuck at. The longer they are sober thats when they will start to mature. My AH thinks just because he is working the program all should be forgiven and I should just take him back. Nope not happening.

Freedom1990

Children are like sponges...they soak up every unresolved emotion that is being thrown around in the household.

Upsetting your child's routine temporarily is small change compared to the bigger picture of what he will carry with him throughout his life with the current situation.

I have a daughter soon to be 32. She was 8 years old when I first got clean/sober. I left my EXAH at that time.

She is now an active addict/alcoholic, hasn't worked in over 10 years, lost custody of her children when she overdosed in front of them, and has a long criminal history.

Your son may not be able to put into words what is happening, but he's picking up and internalizing the emotions in that house.

I hope for your sake and your son's that you find recovery for yourself to become whole and emotionally healthy. You are a child of God and deserve far better than what you are getting now.

Bernadette

when does the sober A truly begin to take responsibility?

Not when or how we want them to that's for sure!!

In the spirit of "keep the focus on me" when I get to these very B&W questions (which often have a lot of MY rage behind them!!) I turn it around and ask myself the same question. It gives me the power and it prevents me from ever, ever, ever waiting (excruciating) for someone else to make things better.

Who makes it happen? I do!

peace
-b

AlwaysGrowing

Reading the post my first answer is this. Could be a day, a week, a month, a year, or never. That is the truth. No one really knows.

While I know it hurts for the crap being pointed when do 'YOU' want to do about 'YOU'?

Stay! Go! This is a personal answer. For me as long as my wife is actively seeking help or working on themselves I'm staying put. IF that were not the case I would not stay.

For me --Hope is not expectation but an acceptance of where things are today knowing there 'might' be change down the road due to action 'being' performed.

deracs

He still hasn't taken responsibility - I re-read my last post and all of the wonderful responses I received. Unfortunately, the cycle continued - he started hiding bottles less than 2 months into his 2nd shot at recovery - he's had so many attempts since then. Today he has 2 days dry. The situation got much worse 2 days ago - outside it looks great but inside my house is scary. The physical abuse has escalated, the threats have escalated and my son is now 5 1/2 - he sees and hears more than ever - I read about the 32 yo ACoA on the old posts who is now a drug addict - it petrifies me. AH has asked to stay in the house and I have agreed on the condition that the police will be called at the slightest sign of trouble (I've never called them before) - 2 good friends of his are in AA one for 20+ years and the other with sporadic periods of being dry. I know that i have to force him out in order to save my son and myself - I told AH I will not protect him anymore - i will protect only myself and my son. I see I joined SR in 2005 - 3 months after my engagement and 6 months before I married him - what was i thinking when I went thorugh with it? At least I know Al Anon will take me back - and I hope SR will too.

outtolunch

You and he are teaching this boy how to treat others and be treated by others. He deserves better than this, no?

Protect your son from further damage, please. This is not his fault.

keepingmyjoy1

It is so funny (not haha funny) deracs...as I was reading along in your posts, all I could think of is that he is still drinking....maybe, maybe not. But I know mine was still drinking and just hiding it.

Mine is the same way...his moral compass is totally blown away by the drinking and I believe he is incapable of realizing his responsibility in all the hurt and damage he caused--it is and always will be everybody else's fault.

I copy pasted this from someone's post because it really helped me and I read it every day: (I am so sorry that I did not save the person's name that posted to give them credit!)

When I needed backbone to deal with a self-centered, ruthless, grandiose, lying alcoholic whose treatment of me shattered me to my core, I read--over and over--two books:

Getting Them Sober by Toby Rice Drews
The Addictive Personality by Craig Nakken

My opinion is that alcohol alone is at the core of your marriage problem, and when you fully understand what that means, what alcoholism does to a marriage which once was happy, then you will see your AH in a completely new light. You will see him as a drunk who hurts people. You will not be so shattered by what he does or says.

It is when we look at the man with the same eyes we had years ago, the same spinning heart we had years ago, believing he must surely be the same man we were so in love with, that we are most at risk of being destroyed when the alcoholic leaves us. What is happening is unimaginable to us, because for us, our hearts have not changed, and he looks the same.

But he is not the same. Alcoholism corrupts a man's heart, it turns his heart small, hard and cold, because the part of his organic brain which regulates empathy, compassion, devotion, morality....is dead. It is dead because addiction is a disease of the brain, and it deadens the sensitive and loving and spiritual part of a human brain: the frontal cortex, the higher brain. The alcoholic loses his best self. The one you loved. His new self is a predator.

The disease operates from the lower part of the brain which is most primitive, most animal-like, most ruthless and predatory. And this brain is what controls your husband today. The brain of addiction. If you keep begging him to be the man he once was, if you keep pleading with him to love you as he once did, your entreaties will be futile.

He is self-seeking, in all things, and as many here have shared with you, he is unavailable. This has been building, you did not know, because the disease grows silently and stealthily over time, and while you were having birthdays and Christmases and loving warm nights in bed with him, the disease in him was progressing and his brain was being altered. The darkness of addiction is chilling in its quiet violence to the alcoholic and to his innocent wife.

When you understand addiction, you will finally believe what those here know: that he is not lost, he is consumed. And that everything in his life is a lie.

You are the strong one. He is weak, dependent, and has lost all capacity to direct his destiny. You are the strong one. He will try desperately to convince you he is powerful and in control, and he may make you feel weak and out of control. But you are neither. You are the strong one.

Do not enable him. Do not minimize his neglect of you, of his children, of his commitments. Do not minimize his emotional flirtations with old girlfriends. Do not allow him to swing by and hang with the children whenever he feels like it and crash on a child's bed as you watch, heart split open.

Do not believe anything he tells you. And expect the worst of him.

You are full of love but you are going to have to suit up for war. Because this is alcoholism. And it destroys.

Make that Sunday meeting, get a counselor for you and for the children, get a lawyer.

There is a new brain in your family and it is more cunning, baffling, and powerful than you can imagine.

You will survive and deepen and you will be all right, no matter what. And there is always hope. There is a world full of recovery. There is always hope.

But it is best to hope in safe place, with a clear head, and support.