The cycle of certainty and doubt
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The cycle of certainty and doubt
I have been struggling with this cycle since I left, but looking back, I realize that I was dealing with it way back before I was married to XAH. It's more glaring now because I'm not IN the madness, I'm somewhat removed from it. It gives me time to examine what goes on inside me without constant interference from XAH to muddy the waters.
Now that I've left, and now that things have calmed down significantly, I am experiencing a sense of lingering and annoying doubt at what happened previously. XAH has been behaving himself for nearly a month, with the occasional "I still love you" or "I miss when you take care of me"...visits have been regular, but altogether short, perhaps because XAH is slowly turning off the Super Dad mode and is settling back into focusing on what's most important: himself.
So, aside from being selfish and self-centered, there's no trace of him being abusive. There's no trace of him drinking either. I never see booze in his fridge, or beer glasses left lying around when I visit. This is where I begin to doubt myself, probably because when we were together, he was NEVER a raging drunk, peeing himself or falling asleep in a puddle of his puke. He just always had a beer in his hand. And abuse wise, he NEVER hit me, sexually abused me or anything of the like. He was just a narcissist King Baby who was a pain in the butt to live with. It was all...so...middle-ground and well-hidden...and now that things are more settled, I doubt whether it even happened. I wonder if I made a mountain out of a molehill.
I really HATE this, because I *remember* being woefully unhappy. I remember the tears, the yelling, the slamming doors and breaking items, the fights. I remember dreaming of a better life, of a better marriage, and knowing that he would never be able to share that with me.
I guess I want to still feel validated that I left. I shouldn't need to, and it's somewhat embarassing that I do. Things weren't "horrible"; I wasn't a bruised up mama showing up at the hospital every month after "an accident". In the last months, I had learned to stand up for myself a lot more, and I refused to let him trample on me anymore, so things got marginally better, and yet I still left.
I really would like to get back to that "certainty" I felt in the weeks following my departure.
Now that I've left, and now that things have calmed down significantly, I am experiencing a sense of lingering and annoying doubt at what happened previously. XAH has been behaving himself for nearly a month, with the occasional "I still love you" or "I miss when you take care of me"...visits have been regular, but altogether short, perhaps because XAH is slowly turning off the Super Dad mode and is settling back into focusing on what's most important: himself.
So, aside from being selfish and self-centered, there's no trace of him being abusive. There's no trace of him drinking either. I never see booze in his fridge, or beer glasses left lying around when I visit. This is where I begin to doubt myself, probably because when we were together, he was NEVER a raging drunk, peeing himself or falling asleep in a puddle of his puke. He just always had a beer in his hand. And abuse wise, he NEVER hit me, sexually abused me or anything of the like. He was just a narcissist King Baby who was a pain in the butt to live with. It was all...so...middle-ground and well-hidden...and now that things are more settled, I doubt whether it even happened. I wonder if I made a mountain out of a molehill.
I really HATE this, because I *remember* being woefully unhappy. I remember the tears, the yelling, the slamming doors and breaking items, the fights. I remember dreaming of a better life, of a better marriage, and knowing that he would never be able to share that with me.
I guess I want to still feel validated that I left. I shouldn't need to, and it's somewhat embarassing that I do. Things weren't "horrible"; I wasn't a bruised up mama showing up at the hospital every month after "an accident". In the last months, I had learned to stand up for myself a lot more, and I refused to let him trample on me anymore, so things got marginally better, and yet I still left.
I really would like to get back to that "certainty" I felt in the weeks following my departure.
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
"I miss when you take care of me".
Girl, validate yourself. If anything, this relief should validate that it's the right thing to not live with him.
Why are you creating these horrific comparisons? The things he never did? Why aren't you validating your own reality? The horrific things he DID do?
Better yet, why are you even going there? What is fantastic in your life today? More exciting, fulfilling and wonderful than that old crap? Make your life the best it can be!!! You're worth it!
Last edited by transformyself; 12-18-2009 at 07:10 AM. Reason: typos. lil boogers.
Curled up in a good book...
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
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You know, when I start looking back and the rose tinted glasses somehow fall onto my face, all I have to do is go and re read my old journal entries or even my old posts here. Helps me remember the stuff that I'm conveniently forgetting and makes me wonder just how I forgot most of that stuff!! There is also an element of what is talked about in this classic sticky thread: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...sick-mind.html I minimise my own pain as not important!
You do deserve better and you are making great strides towards your own happiness!
You do deserve better and you are making great strides towards your own happiness!
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Transformed...you're right. I need to slap myself silly.
Bookwyrm, thank you for posting that.
You know, I always thought of my "ability" to forget the bad stuff that happened to me in the past as a positive characteristic. It came in handy a lot...I was molested by my physiotherapist when I was 14, but I didn't remember most of what happened. I was in controlling relationships with men, but hey, who remembers the details? I had paying customers try to do all kinds of bad things to me when I was a stripper, but hey, why dwell on that stuff?!
You've just shocked me into realizing that I've spent the better part of my life trying to bury or forget all kinds of things. It's the way I work. And look where it got me.
Maybe I did it as a way to protect myself from the things done to me, or from the things I did to myself, because if I *actuallly* had the guts to examine people and events for what they were, I'd have to stop and re-evaluate how I lived my life.
Bookwyrm, thank you for posting that.
You know, I always thought of my "ability" to forget the bad stuff that happened to me in the past as a positive characteristic. It came in handy a lot...I was molested by my physiotherapist when I was 14, but I didn't remember most of what happened. I was in controlling relationships with men, but hey, who remembers the details? I had paying customers try to do all kinds of bad things to me when I was a stripper, but hey, why dwell on that stuff?!
You've just shocked me into realizing that I've spent the better part of my life trying to bury or forget all kinds of things. It's the way I work. And look where it got me.
Maybe I did it as a way to protect myself from the things done to me, or from the things I did to myself, because if I *actuallly* had the guts to examine people and events for what they were, I'd have to stop and re-evaluate how I lived my life.
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
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HEY!~ no no no!!
You do NOT need to hurt yourself and I'm sorry if I came off judgemental or however that's spelled.
Nothing changed for me until I changed what I said about myself to myself. Spoke kindly and with love to myself. Be honest, yes, but be forgiving and as kind as you are to others. Self abuse and self defeating talk seem to be something that recovering folks do. "Attack the argument not the person." Why attack at all?? "Get out the two by fours." No. No no no.
Realizing you pack down horrific abuse is a good first step. But why should you beat yourself up for not knowing something back then that you know now?
Change takes time. And lots of self love. Learning to be kind to myself, love myself and be aware of those critical voices in my head gives me greater freedom than anything else.
Transformed...you're right. I need to slap myself silly.
Nothing changed for me until I changed what I said about myself to myself. Spoke kindly and with love to myself. Be honest, yes, but be forgiving and as kind as you are to others. Self abuse and self defeating talk seem to be something that recovering folks do. "Attack the argument not the person." Why attack at all?? "Get out the two by fours." No. No no no.
Realizing you pack down horrific abuse is a good first step. But why should you beat yourself up for not knowing something back then that you know now?
Change takes time. And lots of self love. Learning to be kind to myself, love myself and be aware of those critical voices in my head gives me greater freedom than anything else.
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Originally Posted by wanting 
Was your AH the lying liar who lies, or am I thinking of someone else? I'm specifically thinking about someone whose H had told a lot of lies about his past.
You are thinking of the right one (who told tall tales about being a mastermind criminal with a super crew of criminals by his side, misunderstood by his powerful doctor siblings, escaped home at 15 to go live with his sensei, and on and on and on).
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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See, that alone should validate your leaving!
I left my oldest daughter's father mostly because of drugs and cheating, but now that I've had 10 years to reflect on that relationship, there were so many lesser things that should have been deal breakers, like being a lying liar who lies. Now, with my STBX, those things aren't entirely obvious to me yet (although they are obvious to every single person in our lives). I'm still in a bit of a fog, I guess. Maybe you are too, and you should just trust your instincts.
I left my oldest daughter's father mostly because of drugs and cheating, but now that I've had 10 years to reflect on that relationship, there were so many lesser things that should have been deal breakers, like being a lying liar who lies. Now, with my STBX, those things aren't entirely obvious to me yet (although they are obvious to every single person in our lives). I'm still in a bit of a fog, I guess. Maybe you are too, and you should just trust your instincts.
Blu**ed Lines...A ClockWork SR
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: AZ
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"So, aside from being selfish and self-centered, there's no trace of him being abusive. There's no trace of him drinking either. "
My take is being selfish and self centered is abusive. It is also why you left. One month is a short period of time. I'm haven had a drink in over 4 months and know that I'm in a better place. In retrospect I would not have trusted me with anything at the one month mark. It's about some much more than ot picking up. Second guessing ourselves is part of the game. Look at what he actually does, not what he says... Just my 2 cents. Chang isn't easy after the initi epiphany stage and takes work.
My take is being selfish and self centered is abusive. It is also why you left. One month is a short period of time. I'm haven had a drink in over 4 months and know that I'm in a better place. In retrospect I would not have trusted me with anything at the one month mark. It's about some much more than ot picking up. Second guessing ourselves is part of the game. Look at what he actually does, not what he says... Just my 2 cents. Chang isn't easy after the initi epiphany stage and takes work.
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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I have to say that I completely related to this post - and some of the things my AH have done are incredibly mean and cruel. I also feel frustrated that I felt SO sure of myself asking him to leave, but then I have doubts sometimes. I know that the man he is though, is not the man I want him to be. He has cut down his drinking considerably, but it really hasn't changed the way he treats me. It seems to me he'll have an occassional moment where he "understands" his own behavior, and then switches back to the same mean person. I know I feel calmer and more at peace than in a long time. My fears are mostly financially related......and that is NOT enough to change it. I think it is normal to doubt our decisions/feelings especially with someone like an alcoholic who appears often to have 2 distinctly different personalities. I just keep reminding myself, that if it were my sons doing to their wife what he has done to me, or if a man ever treated my daughter the way he has treated me that I would never "allow" that, and then the realization that I have value just like my kids do and I don't deserve it either. And lastly, that by keeping them in the environment I am increasing the chances that they think his behavior is ok. And in the end.......I would do whatever it takes to keep them healthy and happy!
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
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There are days I feel certain and days that I question myself. On the days that I question myself, I let go of my feelings and do what my head tells me is the right thing. I continue on the path I set for myself when I felt certain.
Sure enough, a few days later the certainty comes back.
Even on your worst days, you can be certain this guy doesn't have his head on straight. And you can't fix him. You can't save him. You can't help put him back together.
It's his MO to manipulate you. He's a mastermind at it. He knows what buttons to push and he is pushing them right now.
He'll get back to his craziness very soon. So stay safe. Stick to the plan. Do the next WISE THING.
Sure enough, a few days later the certainty comes back.
(who told tall tales about being a mastermind criminal with a super crew of criminals by his side, misunderstood by his powerful doctor siblings, escaped home at 15 to go live with his sensei, and on and on and on).
It's his MO to manipulate you. He's a mastermind at it. He knows what buttons to push and he is pushing them right now.
He'll get back to his craziness very soon. So stay safe. Stick to the plan. Do the next WISE THING.
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Originally Posted by nodaybut2day
And abuse wise, he NEVER hit me, sexually abused me or anything of the like. He was just a narcissist King Baby who was a pain in the butt to live with. It was all...so...middle-ground and well-hidden...and now that things are more settled, I doubt whether it even happened. I wonder if I made a mountain out of a molehill.
Last edited by DesertEyes; 12-25-2009 at 08:43 AM. Reason: fixed broken quote
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I just left 3 weeks ago. There are things I miss like our money, my big house, warm oil heat. I guess I'm mean... I don't miss him... but he wasn't around much and when he was he was in his basement... I could easily think; was it really that bad? We all want what we were use to. Even if it's not good for us. Just like if you eat a cookie each night after dinner... soon you'll crave that cookie after dinner... in fact you may want more then one if it's there... if you gain weight because of eating that cookie(s) and stop eating them your body will bug you for that after dinner treat. Try it and see. We are just like that with our A.
I also think that our A have taught us to question ourselves for so long that whatever doubts a normal person would have over a major choice we have double. You just have to remember there was a real reason that would make a sane person leave their home and do something so drastic.
My AH makes it easy sometimes like when he says I'm crazy he was only having two a night when I know (because I was crazy and counting) he had no less then 8-12 each and every night. I wonder if the lie is for me or him? That makes me know I'm in the right place.
I also think that our A have taught us to question ourselves for so long that whatever doubts a normal person would have over a major choice we have double. You just have to remember there was a real reason that would make a sane person leave their home and do something so drastic.
My AH makes it easy sometimes like when he says I'm crazy he was only having two a night when I know (because I was crazy and counting) he had no less then 8-12 each and every night. I wonder if the lie is for me or him? That makes me know I'm in the right place.
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Dear Nodaybut2day,
Remember also, that alcoholism is a PROGRESSIVE disease, and that left untreated and without a positive program, the alcoholic WILL get worse, spiraling downward, and taking with him anyone in his path. Just because you left before his rock bottom doesn't mean he isn't an untreated alcoholic who is going to get much, much worse. You simply decided that YOU didn't deserve to be treated less than lovingly by the man in your life, nor did you need to let yourself be swept down in that whirlwind due to someone else's addictions. Don't feel bad for taking care of yourself - it was absolutely the right thing to do. You recognized YOUR addiction (to him) and you did something about it. Let him recognize his own when the time comes...
I really think if we, as codependents, could "trust" the lessons learned by our peers here, rather than live in denial (much like our A's) and believing that somehow, our situation is "different" or that we know more than others or that our 'love' is greater and will surmount all the problems (yadayada) that we could avoid much pain, pain that is almost always inevitable, because addiction is always progressive.
But, like our A's, we just don't take others' word for it, and must learn the lessons ourselves, must put ourselves through the pain before the lesson sticks, before we realize that we are JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, that our situation is no different, and that there is a way out but it involves doing it ourselves, for ourselves.
His progression downward is no longer YOUR progression downward. YOU recognized the fallacy in it and chose to make YOUR life better. Good for you. Now no more doubting that you did what was right, that you recognized a bad situation and corrected it, that you made a life choice that is upward and positive. Merry Christmas and please continue to keep your faith and to take care of YOU.
Remember also, that alcoholism is a PROGRESSIVE disease, and that left untreated and without a positive program, the alcoholic WILL get worse, spiraling downward, and taking with him anyone in his path. Just because you left before his rock bottom doesn't mean he isn't an untreated alcoholic who is going to get much, much worse. You simply decided that YOU didn't deserve to be treated less than lovingly by the man in your life, nor did you need to let yourself be swept down in that whirlwind due to someone else's addictions. Don't feel bad for taking care of yourself - it was absolutely the right thing to do. You recognized YOUR addiction (to him) and you did something about it. Let him recognize his own when the time comes...
I really think if we, as codependents, could "trust" the lessons learned by our peers here, rather than live in denial (much like our A's) and believing that somehow, our situation is "different" or that we know more than others or that our 'love' is greater and will surmount all the problems (yadayada) that we could avoid much pain, pain that is almost always inevitable, because addiction is always progressive.
But, like our A's, we just don't take others' word for it, and must learn the lessons ourselves, must put ourselves through the pain before the lesson sticks, before we realize that we are JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, that our situation is no different, and that there is a way out but it involves doing it ourselves, for ourselves.
His progression downward is no longer YOUR progression downward. YOU recognized the fallacy in it and chose to make YOUR life better. Good for you. Now no more doubting that you did what was right, that you recognized a bad situation and corrected it, that you made a life choice that is upward and positive. Merry Christmas and please continue to keep your faith and to take care of YOU.
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 65
Missing out on what could have been is a big one for me.
Creature comforts are a big one for me.
I haven't left yet. I'm working on making it so that I can. But like another poster said...looking at those journal entries going back over 8 years even though I don't write much, there is enough justification in the unhappiness and sorrow on those pages to warrant wanting freedom from the insanity.
Try and have the best time that you can.
No one is ALL bad, mine has some truly wonderful qualities and is quite charming and playful at times a true puer eternis (eternal boy) but this same part of his make-up drives me over the edge at times as well.
Creature comforts are a big one for me.
I haven't left yet. I'm working on making it so that I can. But like another poster said...looking at those journal entries going back over 8 years even though I don't write much, there is enough justification in the unhappiness and sorrow on those pages to warrant wanting freedom from the insanity.
Try and have the best time that you can.
No one is ALL bad, mine has some truly wonderful qualities and is quite charming and playful at times a true puer eternis (eternal boy) but this same part of his make-up drives me over the edge at times as well.
Seeking Serenity
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 144
I know deep down in my heart I did the right thing by leaving, but I too have times when the doubt creeps back in. I think that's normal. Years of living with an A has certainly trained us to question ourselves. We learn to twist and manipulate thoughts as well. I miss my old life...with it's financial security...and I miss the old person my AH used to be. But that man is lost to me.
I don't know if this will work for you, but what I did yesterday seemed to help a bit. I have all these thoughts inside my head, but they never were allowed to come to the surface. Things that I would have loved to spit in his face over what he has done to hurt me or ways he has made me feel. Things I surpressed to try and make the marriage to a sick individual work. I sat down and started a list...I called it "REASONS WHY I LEFT YOUR SORRY ASS". I swear...that's what I called it.
I thought if I could put down on paper the many reasons why I left him it would serve as a good reminder to me when the doubts like yours creep in. I started typing this list up and in no time...I had 5 pages and 59 bullet points!! It just started coming out of me. I am not finished with this list. I had to leave to go to Christmas Eve services, but I am starting again tonight once the holiday is pretty much over. There are so many more that need to be written down. As I read them again I realized I DID have a reason to leave his sorry ass!!
That list is going to be a work in progress and as a new miserable memory comes to mind I will write it down. It felt so good to get it on paper.
I hope this helps you. I certainly know how you feel. Hang tough...you are not crazy!
(((((((hugs to you)))))))
I don't know if this will work for you, but what I did yesterday seemed to help a bit. I have all these thoughts inside my head, but they never were allowed to come to the surface. Things that I would have loved to spit in his face over what he has done to hurt me or ways he has made me feel. Things I surpressed to try and make the marriage to a sick individual work. I sat down and started a list...I called it "REASONS WHY I LEFT YOUR SORRY ASS". I swear...that's what I called it.
I thought if I could put down on paper the many reasons why I left him it would serve as a good reminder to me when the doubts like yours creep in. I started typing this list up and in no time...I had 5 pages and 59 bullet points!! It just started coming out of me. I am not finished with this list. I had to leave to go to Christmas Eve services, but I am starting again tonight once the holiday is pretty much over. There are so many more that need to be written down. As I read them again I realized I DID have a reason to leave his sorry ass!!
That list is going to be a work in progress and as a new miserable memory comes to mind I will write it down. It felt so good to get it on paper.
I hope this helps you. I certainly know how you feel. Hang tough...you are not crazy!
(((((((hugs to you)))))))
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 65
Just love it WHY I LEFT YOUR SORRY ASS
It reminds me of when I feel "mean" [rejecting to a misguided lost soul] all I have to do is read some of my journal entries...not that I write every day, but often enough to have recorded some of the depths...It works for me too!
It reminds me of when I feel "mean" [rejecting to a misguided lost soul] all I have to do is read some of my journal entries...not that I write every day, but often enough to have recorded some of the depths...It works for me too!
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