nodaybut2day

I've been rereading the threat on codependence, and thinking about my own very dangerous codependent tendencies. Thinking back, I believe I've been like this as long as I can remember. I've *always* felt insecure and I've *always* wanted other people to like me. I've *always* put others before myself, even if it was detrimental to me. Saying NO has always been extremely difficult for me...

I'm wondering if it's possible to be born codependent. I realize that according to attachment parenting and emotional attachment theories that humans are supposedly always in need of the closeness and presence of others...but codependence seems like a negative facet of this need, involving gradual or near complete sublimation of self. Is is possible that I just don't remember a period in time where my sense of self and my boundaries to others was "healthy", so it *seems* as though I've always been this way in my interactions with other people?

If so, it's not really a question of recovery but almost a question of re-education starting from scratch. Somehow, it makes the road seem longer...

SadLittleSister

I think that, like many other personality traits (outgoing vs. introverted, for instance), some people have a predisposition to develop a co-dependent mindset. I have also been a pleaser and a caretaker and a need-to-be-in-control type my whole life. In my case, since my mother and sister are also very much this way, "nurture" might have contributed as well as "nature." But I think brain chemistry plays a part.

canuckch

nodaybut2day.
I have wondered about this myself. My first memories of feeling inadequate or less than my friends are early kindergarten. This feeling of not fitting in, of a difficulty playing with other children. It was almost as if I was putting emphasis on feelings that others my age weren't even aware of. As if I never really knew who I was but I was mostly concerned about copying other kids if only to fit in. If a kid takes your toy you just take it back, right? Except that I was hurt. I felt sad, run over and disliked.

During my early twenties I came up with a theory. I came to the conclusion that I might possibly be "defect" because I was feeling to deeply. I wondered if my brain was wired wrong. For example. It has taken me years to desensitize myself to movies. And there is still no way I would be able to watch a war movie. My mom remembers me crying during Heidi. I wasn't just watching Heidi, I "was" Heidi. My mom once told me that if I was upset during a movie or a tv show I was so upset that I would still be upset 4 hours later. Trying to process. Having a hard time turning off the emotions and returning to reality.

I think it was 7th. grade we went and watched "The Lord of the Flies" with our class. We had to write a report on it afterwards. I couldn't make it through the movie. I had to leave half way through and hide for the reminder in the bathroom. I felt so broken. Almost to the point of physically ill. The emotions were so overwhelming.

So I do think some of us come with a predisposition to codependent behavior. Can we change that? I don't know, but I sure am trying.

P.S. And I came from a "picture perfect family". O.k. yes I know no such thing truly exists but it came pretty close.

andyaddict

I don’t see unhealthy attachment completely explained by Bowlby’s attachment theory, maybe some strips of it but Bandura’s Social Learning Theory seems to explain just as much if not more of this behavior. However I believe that nearly ALL behavior is learned – how it’s learned isn’t as important as realizing that it IS learned.

Though there could be a mild genetic predisposition such as an over/under active pituitary, thyroid or adrenal gland, these are only markers that help explain tendencies, not define behaviors in my opinion.

Kind of like solving a crime where they find out exactly WHO benefits from the occurrence, take an inventory to find out exactly WHY this behavior is appealing. You might find out that there is some “learned” deviant behavior underneath the illusion of “helping” others. Bill Wilson coined this as hiding a bad motive beneath a good one.


a

nodaybut2day

I have clear memories of being babysat with neighborhood children and just sitting there, bawling, while one of the oldest children hit me repeatedly. Even at such a young age, the concept of defending myself against aggression wasn't innate. In a sense, I had no physical boundaries I fought to have respected. In my XAH's case, I've heard from his mother and sibblings that he was, at a very young age, excessively aggressive and confrontational. It makes me wonder if there's a natural tendency in some people to be victimized just as there exists a natural tendency in other people to be aggressive/violent.

In any case...I guess it is irrelevant with regards to recovering or re-educating oneself to learn healthy behaviour patterns.

BuffaloGal

I've read that anxiety is innate, you can measure it in babies, and it varies widely. My infant daughter sure got alarmed when I handed her to someone else. But I think people-pleasing as a way to alleviate anxiety is taught and learned. Oversensitivity, though, I do wonder if that's genetic. I can't filter out others' emotions, I've always hated violent or horror movies, and I to this day I can't watch Bambi because the "Mommy! Mommy!" bit makes me cry. None of this bothers my 10 year old whatsoever.

For a long time I've thought that a lot of interpersonal problems worldwide would be solved if, for one generation, sons were all raised by women, and daughters were all raised by men. Twenty years later, women would be assertive and know how to change their own oil, and men would enter adulthood with the use of the dishwasher, vacuum cleaner, and washing machine integrated into their gender role. (Yes, I'm being sexist, most males of my acquaintance vacuum more often than me. It's the principle, here.)

I was with my nuclear family until I was 4, then I lived with my dad after the age of 9. I missed an entire education in codependency-- for which I'm grateful. My guess is that my mom entered marriage with a 50's era dose of wifely selflessness, which gained her a lot of heartache, and cost her about 6 years of her short life trying to preserve her hopeless marriage to an immature, self centered man. Being a girl without a mom during my formative years was a nightmare, with one exception: I got to make up for myself what it meant to be a relationship partner and a woman. (Oh, and my dad has grown up since his 20s, in many ways. Still, he's a much better father than significant other.)

I didn't learn how to shave my legs or do makeup or girl talk or interact with my own gender, which has been a struggle. But equally I didn't learn what I call "feminine BS," the weirdly self destructive tendencies I've observed in my female friends for two decades now. I can't tell how many times I've looked at my girlfriends and wished they could understand how much easier things would be, relationship wise, if they'd take a cue from their partners and act like an a**hole occasionally. Assume that there's dozens of guys out there that would be interested if the current one didn't make the grade. Act like they were more attractive than they were, not less. Be sullen and uncommunicative, and watch their boyfriends make an effort to get their attention for a change. View themselves as complete, alone! There's a whole repertoire of behavior that can be selectively borrowed to improve one's life. No one has to become a jerk to reap the benefits of protecting their own best interests, but if you want your partner to understand what it's like when the shoe is on the other foot, you have to be willing to take off your own shoes, hand em over, and put on some different ones.

Yes, I have a category called "masculine BS" as well, and of course it's not that black and white. I don't like "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" because I think it's wildly oversimplified, and besides, after reading it I concluded that I'm from Mars but I'm pretty secure in my female identity anyway. I know males can be codependent, it's not a coincidence that my boyfriend and I just broke up because I was annoyed by his attempts to fix me, and he was irritated by my failure to correct some of my personal flaws.

I struggle against excessive self isolation, which has its own set of toxic results. Losing yourself in the need for closeness is damaging-- so is teaching yourself that the need doesn't exist. "Re education" is a pretty accurate term for what I've tried to do in the past few years. The take home lesson from my mother's death for the child I used to be was that closeness and emotional attachment are things that can be yanked away permanently, without warning... which is true, but that doesn't mean it's a great idea to persuade yourself that they're unnecessary. I wonder if that's part of why I fell in love with someone who didn't have a whole lot of obvious emotional attachment to offer. Not none, but much less than usual.

nowinsituation

This thread is extremely interesting. I've been confused as to the roots of my codependency as well, and also can't remember a time when I was comfortable in my own skin. I was overweight as a child, and teased mercilessly by my siblings and my classmates. Many "caring" adults also made comments that were very hurtful. For most of my adult life (pregnancy years excluded) I have maintained a healthy weight; but my self esteem has never recovered. I was also physically and emotionally abused by my older brother, and now in therapy am starting to see that I was emotionally abused by other members of my family. I always knew what they did hurt me, but just thought I was too sensitive.

And, as for the movies. OMG -- My mom tells of taking me to see Bambi and not being able to console me as a cried hysterically in the theater. I had to hide behind my Dad's chair watching the Wizard of Oz as I was so scared of the wicked witch (and those flying monkeys!). Rember the daytime drama "Dark Shadows"? My brother and sister watched in religiously -- I couldn't even be in the same room when it was on. Even as an adult, when I was watching the video Steel Magnolias I had to pause the movie and walk around my house a few times I was sobbing so hard.

That is interesting that that characteristic may somehow be related to codependency??

Lilya

This is a good discussion. I´ve always thought codependency was a part of the disease, alcoholism and other addictions. I think we may be born with a predisposition for codependency, but it´s also a learned disability.

I had the problem of dual nationality as a child, so kids were merciless and I learned to please them to get them to stop teasing me. I also think I was predisposed to be that way, regardless of the kids behaviour. I think I´ve been controlling since I was a kid.

I know that I have problems of codependency, but I see a marked difference since I started in AA and therapy. When there is an argument, I usually remind myself that there are always three sides to every story, my side, their side and the "true" side (objective side). It has been a very long progress and there is a lot more work ahead.

There is a really good book I keep at my bedside, Codependence No More by Melody Beatty. I really recommend it.