Just broke up with him, worried he's on his way to drink

Old 12-06-2009, 08:24 PM
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Just broke up with him, worried he's on his way to drink

We were fighting on the phone. I told him finally that I didn't want to date him anymore. Then after 5 minutes I got scared and started calling him. He knows I worry when we fight that he might drink. He won't pick up. I left him a voicemail to please text me and just let me know that he isn't going to drink and he's ok (even though I'm still really mad and wish I could just sit here and think about myself and my own feelings). He hasn't texted.

I feel sick with worry. This is horrible. I know if I would just BE there for him and not ASK anything of him, he'd be ok. But when I need something, we start fighting. I finally put my foot down. I want something back. But he's going through a hard time with school right now. Maybe now wasn't the time to ask for the 50/50 relationship I was hoping for.

He's not texting.
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Old 12-06-2009, 08:34 PM
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********************************{breathe}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

#1. You can't make him drink.
#2. You can't make him NOT drink.

We don't drink because *of* anything -
we drink... because we're alcoholics.

The gut feeling I got while reading was
how easy it'd be for him to control your actions
whether you 'get' anything or not
simply by threatening to drink
every time he doesn't get his way.

Now,
I don't know how old you are,
but the behavior I just described ...

is that of a child.
A boy.

I finally came to a place
where relationships with boys
is no longer interesting for me.

I prefer men.
You know - grown ups.

Just something to think about,
because it sounded a whole lot to me
like
you're being controlled and manipulated
(if not flat out blackmailed)
into a one way relationship
where you do all the work
and he does all the destructing.
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Old 12-06-2009, 08:49 PM
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Keep Pedeling, i'm sorry you're feeling this way....

"I know that if I would just BE there for him and not ask anything of him, he'd be ok."

That's not true. And you're not a doormat, and you shouldn't have to walk on eggshells because someone else can't control THEIR behavior.

I'm sorry if that comes off harsh. I don't mean to.

This reminded me of one of the convos I had with my XA before I went no contact, and he had just done something completely hurtful, completely disrespectful to me......
I should have HUNG UP ON HIM and NEVER EVER spoken to him again. But noooooo, I was so worried about what he would do.... I mean he's in so much pain, how could I just not accept his actions??? What if he drinks after our fight??? That's how I felt all the time.

So the next day, sure enough I call him, to smooth things over, and I told him I was so worried that he was going to drink that night....
do you know what he said to me?? He said "see, that's codependence."

Looking back and remembering that infuriates me to this day. He was such a jerk to me and in that moment he actually has the nerve to point out that my worrying about him was codependent!? Like he was pointing out MY flaw! Ugh!! It totally made me feel like I was the damaged one....not him.

And you know what, he was right though. And now i'm addressing it for myself.

And now, I don't care if he drinks. I will never wish anything bad on him. I cared about this man completely. But I don't care what he CHOOSES to do anymore. He was so manipulative and such a user of me in hindsight. Now, I worry about HOW I WILL HANDLE a situation.
And it's baby steps everyday.

What do YOU need right now? Not him, YOU??

HUGS
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Old 12-06-2009, 09:26 PM
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Thank you so much. He finally texted me and said "Don't worry, your conscience is clear." Then he called me and told me in a variety of ways that just because he drank ONE day out of the year, I had no reason to worry. "You're gonna have to get over it already!" It was 3 weeks ago. He went on ranting about how he wasn't my dad (my dad was an alcoholic). My ABF drank for 20 years and was sober almost two years until 3 weeks ago, so I supposed he's right, I shouldn't worry.

KittyBoo, how long have you been away from your ex? When you decided on no contact, did you just stop picking up the phone? Did you tell him you were going to do that?

Barb, it does feel like emotional blackmail. And even though I know it, it's so weird that I can't seem to rise above it sometimes.
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Old 12-06-2009, 09:37 PM
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well, without going into the king story about it we stopped speaking at the end of august.
He actually went back to his ex wife, which was/ still is hard for me. At the time I still put his emotions before mine and tried to remain friends. But really I was fuming.

It's incredibly unhealthy to keep anger bottled up, I've done that all my life, and counseling now is helping me deal with that. The problem was that since I didn't deal with my anger with him when I should have it came out a couple of weeks later.

He's never tried to contact me, aside from one blocked phone call ( good grief) I have not attempted to call or write and I blocked him on facebook over a month ago. Any contact just brings pain...... And I refuse to put myself through anymore pain with him.
I still think about him, but he doesn't need to know that. I'm processing the hurt as it comes, and sometimes it's really hard.

That's one reason why I love it here, I read and read and realize that others are feeling exactly what I feel, and it gives me strength, and I don't feel so alone.

I would recommend that you check out the sticky links at the top of the forum. There's one called classic reading, there's a wealth of information!

Be good to yourself, you deserve nothing but the best. Don't settle for less.
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Old 12-06-2009, 09:39 PM
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and that word was supposed to be "long"...not "king" ... Stupid phone!
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Old 12-06-2009, 09:46 PM
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It might take more than three weeks to get completely on your own feet,
but it's okay.
It takes however long it takes.

In this kind of thing,
awareness is power.

The 'halt' stuff
is just as applicable here
as it is
for any alcoholic in recovery.

Secondly,
it sounds to me like you *are* getting over it -
you're moving him out
and learning to make room
in your life
to attract someone healthier
who has something to give.

yeah, I'm getting over it
moving you out
and moving ON.

I'm all grown up now.
I don't take this crap off anyone any more.

Sometimes I have to tell myself that
every fifteen minutes
until it sinks in.

And maybe no,
he's not your dad
(I love when they use that tired old cliche)
but apparently he's enough LIKE him
to make you want him out of your movie.
To trigger a response
you haven't had to use since then.

There's nothing in the world wrong with wanting an equal energy exchange.

You're not 'wrong' or 'demanding' or any other flippant label
just because you want to be treated by someone
with at least the energy
you give to them.

And -
you don't have to return every call.
You don't have to return ANYcalls
after you say
"I'm done."
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Old 12-06-2009, 09:57 PM
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Thanks again for all the words on encouragement. It's amazing how helpful it is to be here. He's been calling and calling. I haven't picked up. The last message was a "nice" one. He says he wants to talk. I think what he really means is he wants to convince me that how I feel isn't valid and what I think it's valid and he's a wonderful guy that treats me great. That's what most of the conversations seem to be about anymore. Better to just not pick up the phone.

"And maybe no,
he's not your dad
(I love when they use that tired old cliche)
but apparently he's enough LIKE him
to make you want him out of your movie.
To trigger a response
you haven't had to use since then."

That's so true.

"That's one reason why I love it here, I read and read and realize that others are feeling exactly what I feel, and it gives me strength, and I don't feel so alone." It's amazing how much better I feel when I get responses from people who know and have been exactly where I am now.
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Old 12-06-2009, 10:05 PM
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I have to get this out. When we were arguing, I asked him what it was exactly that he was putting into our relationship. He sends me an email almost every morning that is about two sentences. It says good morning and that he loves me and hopes I have a great day. Some variation of that.

And that was all he had. That was all he could think of. And when I said, "that's it?" He went on to tell me that that's all he really ever needed from me, that he doesn't need me to say he's cute, or be affectionate, or all the things I wish he would do for me. He said it in a way like I was a needy freak for wanting the schmoopy talk/times. It made me feel bad and it made me really angry (I have an easy time expressing my anger).

I could quickly make a long list of all of the things that I've done for him, I'm sure you can image how many hours of energy I've poured into our relationship. And that was all he had, an email in the mornings. He once said, like it was just incredible, "It's like you want me to tell you that I love you all the time!" Because, you see, he had already told me once when we got together 6 months ago, and maybe a couple of times after that in real life. Oh wait! There's the "I love you" signature on his morning emails.

OMG. What am I doing?
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Old 12-07-2009, 06:14 AM
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I've been told before that for a healthy relationship to develop, that each person needs to individually be at 100%, meaning, you have taken the time to develop yourself into the person you want to be, and you work to fulfill your own needs and feel whole. Then when you join a relationship, then what you get is more than 100%. Meaning the extra that you get from the other person is gravy.

If any one person comes in at less than 100%, then they search to fill the rest of themselves through their significant other. And that's very depleting to that person, and truthfully even though you try to get that from them, it never really works because you really have to get it from yourself. Does that make sense?

You sound like you need something - affection, validation, from him. You must really find that for yourself, within yourself. You can't 'force' him to give it. If he ever does give it, it should be freely and willingly, and simply a bonus for you, not a necessity.

Especially when you say the long list you've made about what you've done for him and he's not returning it. Is it a competition? If you give of yourself it shouldn't be because you expect something back. It is because you wanted to give it. As soon as you tie your behaviours to an expectation and then that expectation isn't filled, you set yourself up to feel unvalidated, unloved, emotionally depleted.

My used to be this way with my bf, and he knew it and took every advantage. We were very young and I was naive which didn't help. I'd get angry and hang up the phone for example. Then I'd feel bad, and I'd call him back. And he knew it, so would wait smugly for that call to come. He used me against myself, he barely had to lift a finger to control me!

Take your power back. Your example of the morning email. Instead of 'that's it?" it should be 'thank you'. It was a nice comment and you acknowledge it. But you're looking for more where more is unlikely to come. Work on yourself, find that acknowledgment from within. You will find that once you start on that path, it won't be so crucial to get it from others. It's being self-reliant to get your needs met. Start filling your 100% - you can control this, and unfortunately you can never control others. So you will spin your wheels forever trying. Spin your own wheels instead, your car will actually start driving forward.
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Old 12-07-2009, 09:50 AM
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"I've been told before that for a healthy relationship to develop, that each person needs to individually be at 100%, meaning, you have taken the time to develop yourself into the person you want to be, and you work to fulfill your own needs and feel whole. Then when you join a relationship, then what you get is more than 100%. Meaning the extra that you get from the other person is gravy."

I love this. It makes perfect sense to me. I've spent a long time being single because I wanted to have some peace to work on me. By the time my boyfriend showed up, I was so happy in life and thought if I never met anyone, I'd be fine. I'm busy, things to do, great hobbies, great friends, etc. But then he did show up. And I was even happier to share my life with someone.

I do not agree that you should not expect affection or a certain amount of energy from the person you are partnered with. Of course you're right, you should never expect your partner to make your life happy or fix issues that you have from the past, but there are the basics to a loving, healthy relationship. One of those basics is affection. He gets it from me, so yes, I expect it back from him.

"Especially when you say the long list you've made about what you've done for him and he's not returning it. Is it a competition?" No, not a competition. The list isn't purely financial, it's emotional energy. I never expect anything financial from him. I accepted the fact that I would have to pay for everything while he was going through school, but that's not the kind of thing I want back from him. I'm not going to be the only one in the relationship actively trying to resolve all of our issues or putting energy into keeping the relationship healthy and vibrant. He's been a taker, and openly admits that. He comes up here, talks about his life, eats my food, cuts me off if I talk about my life, consistently asks me to help him with his life. He's actually said, "You're just going to have to help me for awhile." It's my own fault for letting it get so lopsided and letting it happen for so long (codie me, right).

It's true, I do give him things because I love him and want him to be ok. I think that's a very natural thing for a women. If I left him and he wasn't drinking, I would continue to provide financial support when he needed it and never need to talk to him at all. But it's not healthy for me to be in a romantic relationship with someone who doesn't put any energy into the relationship.

And yes, I also need validation from him, of course. That is also something that's very important in a healthy relationship. When I calmly tell him that I'm hurt, I need him to be kind and say something like, "I can see how you would feel that way." Not what I usually get from him, which is a lot of anger and him going to great length to tell me that how I feel is wrong and ridiculous. I would be worried if he didn't expect validation and affection from me.

I think it's unhealthy to expect nothing from your partner. I think from your partner and your friends, you should expect affection, interest, validation, understanding, and truth. That's the good stuff that life is made of.

He did drink last night by the way. He called me over and over.
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Kittyboo View Post
"I know that if I would just BE there for him and not ask anything of him, he'd be ok."

That's not true. And you're not a doormat, and you shouldn't have to walk on eggshells because someone else can't control THEIR behavior.
Now, I worry about HOW I WILL HANDLE a situation.
And it's baby steps everyday.

What do YOU need right now? Not him, YOU??

HUGS
I need to post this somewhere.

hey, keeppedaling, consider reading Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch. It might change your perspective on validation.
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by KeepPedaling View Post
I know if I would just BE there for him and not ASK anything of him, he'd be ok.
Originally Posted by KeepPedaling View Post
I think it's unhealthy to expect nothing from your partner. I think from your partner and your friends, you should expect affection, interest, validation, understanding, and truth.
These two statements contradict each other. Which do you really want - to not ask anything of him, or to have some healthy expectations for a supportive partner?

I have a feeling you want the second option, but for some reason you think you can't have the second option without going through the first option. The truth is healthy relationships don't work like this - you don't spend the beginning of it proving that you're worthy enough to be loved to then finally be rewarded with love. Love isn't a prize that someone's going to hand to you one day.

The KEY thing about breakups is to actually act like you're broken up. This may mean non contact. This may mean some distance. But most of all, it means taking a break from the other person's emotional haywire for a while. You are broken up. You do not have to prove that you were a good girlfriend by being a good friend now. Listening to how your ex is doing does not come after breakups. Neither do friendships - those take time to re-form, and don't happen automatically even if the relationship was top-notch.

Now, what could you use? (and yes, stuff that doesn't involve him)
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dothi View Post
These two statements contradict each other. Which do you really want - to not ask anything of him, or to have some healthy expectations for a supportive partner?

I have a feeling you want the second option, but for some reason you think you can't have the second option without going through the first option. The truth is healthy relationships don't work like this - you don't spend the beginning of it proving that you're worthy enough to be loved to then finally be rewarded with love. Love isn't a prize that someone's going to hand to you one day.

The KEY thing about breakups is to actually act like you're broken up. This may mean non contact. This may mean some distance. But most of all, it means taking a break from the other person's emotional haywire for a while. You are broken up. You do not have to prove that you were a good girlfriend by being a good friend now. Listening to how your ex is doing does not come after breakups. Neither do friendships - those take time to re-form, and don't happen automatically even if the relationship was top-notch.

Now, what could you use? (and yes, stuff that doesn't involve him)
Well, I wrote one last night and one this morning. Last night I was on the fence, until I realized he was drinking. I KNOW I can't ask for nothing of him and be with him. I just can't. Although, there's a part of me that wishes I could just care for him and expect nothing at all, I can't do it. I need someone I can count on too.

So ya, breaking up is breaking up. What could I use? I guess just what you guys are doing. Listening. Responding. (I love this forum). Good advice/reminders. For example, it's nice to hear that I don't have to prove that I was a good girlfriend by being a good friend now.

I'm planning a trip out of town with friends this weekend. That will really help. I need to go hang out with my horses and keep going to the gym. All the stuff I do that keeps me centered and happy. I'm just sad for us and worried for him. It's hard to shake that.

Thanks for your help.
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:46 PM
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Keep pedalling,

I'm a recovered alcoholic. I've remained that way by living by the spiritual principles I learned in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. I stay connected to those principles by intensive work with other alcoholics. At times, it seems like my only purpose in life, the one place where I can be uniquely useful to another human being, is in helping a still suffering alcoholic get and stay sober by doing exactly what I had to do. My point is, that I am well qualified to help another person get sober, and I have a fair amount of experience with it.

But I know there is nothing I can do to keep someone else from drinking.

I talked to a guy Thursday. He was in a great mood, jovial, had a plan for staying sober. Things were looking up for him. On top of the world for the first time in a long time. After getting off the phone, I asked another recovered alkie how long they thought C was going to make it. She guessed he'd be drunk by Friday. I was optimistic and guessed Saturday. We both sold him short and he didn't drink until Sunday, when he called me drunk.

What's the lesson here? I know full well that this guy is going to be drunk within a few days after talking to him. I have the tools that will allow him to recover just like I did. And I also know there isn't a damn thing I could have done to keep him from drinking.

Even without co-dependant issues, it's wise to know that you can not control somebody else's drinking. With the codie issues, that kind of thinking can be miserable.
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by KeepPedaling View Post
I do not agree that you should not expect affection or a certain amount of energy from the person you are partnered with. Of course you're right, you should never expect your partner to make your life happy or fix issues that you have from the past, but there are the basics to a loving, healthy relationship. One of those basics is affection. He gets it from me, so yes, I expect it back from him.

"Especially when you say the long list you've made about what you've done for him and he's not returning it. Is it a competition?" No, not a competition. The list isn't purely financial, it's emotional energy. I never expect anything financial from him. I accepted the fact that I would have to pay for everything while he was going through school, but that's not the kind of thing I want back from him. I'm not going to be the only one in the relationship actively trying to resolve all of our issues or putting energy into keeping the relationship healthy and vibrant. He's been a taker, and openly admits that. He comes up here, talks about his life, eats my food, cuts me off if I talk about my life, consistently asks me to help him with his life. He's actually said, "You're just going to have to help me for awhile." It's my own fault for letting it get so lopsided and letting it happen for so long (codie me, right).

And yes, I also need validation from him, of course. That is also something that's very important in a healthy relationship. When I calmly tell him that I'm hurt, I need him to be kind and say something like, "I can see how you would feel that way." Not what I usually get from him, which is a lot of anger and him going to great length to tell me that how I feel is wrong and ridiculous. I would be worried if he didn't expect validation and affection from me.

I think it's unhealthy to expect nothing from your partner. I think from your partner and your friends, you should expect affection, interest, validation, understanding, and truth. That's the good stuff that life is made of.

He did drink last night by the way. He called me over and over.
It's not always easy to find a balance between healthy and unhealthy expectation, is all. I know I expect a partner not to beat or verbally abuse me, and that I expect respect and love, as per my vows.

The reality is we codies tend to mix up basic human expectations (except for the love, I kind of expect the above things from any human being) with our expectations for how our relationship must be and how that partner must conform to those expectations, even if it's not in their nature. For example, the way your bf seems to express his thoughtfulness to you is to send you a brief but nice email. Despite the other things he does, that is a gesture on his part. Your list and your response of 'that's it' seems to wander to the codie territory of you wanting something more from him that he hasn't given. I am/was the same. My H is not the most affectionate guy. Instead of 'seeing' his affection in the things that he did do, I chose to be angry about the things that he didn't do, that I wanted. I wanted flowers, he did the dishes. I wanted a romantic getaway, he rented a video and my fave chocolate bar. This was his expression of love. Totally different than mine. I held it against him every chance I got - not out of hate but out of truly just wanting to be loved in the way I felt I needed. So then I have 2 choices and neither involve him changing in any way. I can either accept who he is and the way he expresses himself, or I can leave and try to find what I want in someone else. But the truth is, because I still engage in unhealthy behaviours, it's likely I'd move to a new relationship and become miserable too in what I wouldn't get.

In your example on validation, you said you'd need him to say something like "I can see how you feel that way". This is the grey area. He is not you, he likely won't respond as you'd wish. And because of who he is, drinking and all, it's even more unlikely.
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:41 PM
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Thanks Silkpin. Honestly, at this point, to me, I think the way he expresses his love for me is irrelevant. He buried us when he started drinking again. There's no reason for me to even think about the details of our relationship. There's no reason for me to consider a relationship with someone who doesn't have himself together 100% like you said. He's chosen to drink, so I'm choosing to move on. I can work out all my needs for affection with a guy who doesn't have trouble staying sober.

Thanks for helping me to work through my situation. I really appreciate it.

Movin' on....
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:42 PM
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pedaling wrote:
OMG. What am I doing?
and there it is.

I wish we had a light bulb smiley.

awareness is power.
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Old 12-07-2009, 03:50 PM
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Anyone dealing with an alcoholic must remember they are not dealing with a sane, rational person. They are dealing with a very sick person and should not take things personally/not take things to heart.

Yes, can be very difficult to do. Easier said than done. I myself took things to heart, until I got educated about the dynamics of alcoholism.

Maybe the alcoholic does suffer, but you must decide if everyone else around the alcoholic must suffer also.

Alcohol is THE WORLD, UNIVERSE, and GALAXY for them. We are just people that assist in helping them maintain that lifestyle.
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Old 12-07-2009, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by keithj View Post
Keep pedalling,

I'm a recovered alcoholic. I've remained that way by living by the spiritual principles I learned in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. I stay connected to those principles by intensive work with other alcoholics. At times, it seems like my only purpose in life, the one place where I can be uniquely useful to another human being, is in helping a still suffering alcoholic get and stay sober by doing exactly what I had to do. My point is, that I am well qualified to help another person get sober, and I have a fair amount of experience with it.

But I know there is nothing I can do to keep someone else from drinking.

I talked to a guy Thursday. He was in a great mood, jovial, had a plan for staying sober. Things were looking up for him. On top of the world for the first time in a long time. After getting off the phone, I asked another recovered alkie how long they thought C was going to make it. She guessed he'd be drunk by Friday. I was optimistic and guessed Saturday. We both sold him short and he didn't drink until Sunday, when he called me drunk.

What's the lesson here? I know full well that this guy is going to be drunk within a few days after talking to him. I have the tools that will allow him to recover just like I did. And I also know there isn't a damn thing I could have done to keep him from drinking.

Even without co-dependant issues, it's wise to know that you can not control somebody else's drinking. With the codie issues, that kind of thinking can be miserable.
Keith, THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! I really appreciate your reply....and I get it.
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