tiredspouse

I am close of the end of my divorce from AH. Have any of you all felt like you live in a parallel reality from your A? Despite battling the disease, being mean, not wanting to spend time with me (until he saw I might actually move on), drunk bedtime stories, leaving me and the kids to drink at the neighborhood bar on a regular basis, nightly runs to "walgreens", multiple rehabs, recovery, relapses, etc. the D is my fault. AH has been sober for almost 1 year (although frankly I don't believe it)

D was "working on the marriage", "is a man who keeps his vows", "was a really good friend and husband" (that's my favorite). I, on the other hand, am breaking my vow to God, ruining every Christmas, etc., etc. It's like all of this was done to him, and there is no desire to admit his part. I think he believes all of this - or maybe it's just manipulation.

I realize I need to treat this as quacking, but it's hard not to feel like the wicked witch who came and wrecked the family. However, our happy family was a mirage, and once I saw that, I was unable to ignore it.

I guess I have just never been on such a parallel path with someone. I don't think he will ever see my viewpoint, and I struggle to see his.

kv816

Understand, relate, agree 120%!!!!

Last time xabf and I talked it was far from usual. He'd been binging all week (from what I heard--we weren't talking much). Anyway. He asked if I wanted to go out on a date with him. I said sure...knowing dang well it'd never happen. What he was planning was days away and I knew he'd "hate" me at some point in those few days.

And I was right. Surprise. He was talking to me (the usual...what's wrong with me, my life, my kids, my job, all the wrong I've done to him, all the wrong the rest of the world has done to him). I wasn't getting angry with him. A little annoyed, but I listened. I finally said a few things and then asked what he wants from me. He paused a second and said "you don't have a damn thing I want".

I said good night and hung up.

Two days later (on the "date" night) he called, b!tching. How can I say I want to be with him if I don't even call for two days. This is why he never makes plans, because I always ruin them by throwing a fit like a stubborn little brat child. I said "wait a minute, YOU said I have nothing you want...why would I want to go out on a date with someone who openly admitted that I can't provide him with anything?"

Of course, he never said that. It never came out of his mouth. Not the first time he's said (or done) something that he later didn't remember. I became a story teller, a liar, a childish b!tch.

And he can't believe I'd treat him so terribly; make up such stories like him saying something that never once came out of his mouth. He was always so good to me. Treated me better than ANY guy I was ever with before. Treated my kids better than anyone else, including their father. He was always my best friend and treated me with nothing but respect (keep in mind my very first number one boundary was DON'T CALL ME WHEN YOU'RE DRINKING and this was a CUI- conversation under the influence).

If I had had any strength left to waste on him, I woulda called him an idiot. Because that's what he was....an idiot. The truth was RIGHT THERE in front of him but he just didn't want to see it that way.

Oh well. I'll do better....eventually. I'm happy with just me right now.

JenT1968

As far as I recall, and there are photos, my husband and I were married, to each other 4 years ago, after 6 years of living together.

Apparently though we have been having entirely different marriages. To all intents and purposes we have been married to entirely different people. I'm glad I don't know his wife, she sounds horrible. Well, they both do.

HIs wife is an unfaithful, money grabbing, cold, friendless, frigid, layabout who forced him into having another child, leaves all the childcare to him, and the housework, and makes him pay for everything. She treats him and everyone else like sh*t, she gave him 2 nervous breakdowns, goes on at him constantly about how she can't live like this, and then out of the blue she tells him she's divorcing him. She thinks the divorce is all about his drinking when in fact its about her lack of sex drive and how much other people find her odd and difficult and dislike her. She's clueless about how her behaviour affects other people, what they think of her, he has had to protect her from the knowledge of how she hurts them for years. She checks up on him, rifles through his drawers when he's out, and plots secret escape plans in her diary. She is completely unsympathetic to the depression he has had to bear, she has no clue how it feels, on top of that he has had to deal with her post-natal depression, twice, and she completely denies that her inability to cope with life (which he has had to suffer the consequences of) led to her losing her last job, instead maintaining that she left 3 months before her extended fixed term contract was up to get a permanent, better hours, higher paid job. She fails to understand that he had to leave one job 3 days after they found out she was pregnant because they were being so mean to him, and that the job he was suspended from because they thought he was stealing from them was due to jealousy and managers who couldn't do their jobs. She doesn't trust him, doesn't beleieve that th police have had him followed twice, both for periods of 6 months and have produced dossiers about him that a very good source has said have been leaked out. She has made him so mad that he threatened her and has been violent towards her, something that he'll now have to live with because of her, not only that but she won't forget that it's happened, he can see it in her eyes. Throughout all that he has loved her though, unlike her, he has never resorted to hate, even when he threatened to have her shot, or tear her face off. Don't even get me started on her family.

My husband doesn't sound too nice either. Not like him, who is loving and caring and funny and gets who I am and still loves me

Other than the photos we don't appear to have shared similar experiences of much during those years. I often come out of engagements with him doubting my sanity (I didn't lose my last job did I?, which people do I treat like sh*t? his whole family thinks I am odd, in what way?). and then it will all be nice again, and I wonder I doubt my experiences and sanity further.

Cowgirl1265

Ceridwen, as sad as it is, your post made me laugh out loud. It is so true, these disparate belief systems that exist in some marriages. It is surely present in my own and something I'm struggling with today.

FreeingMyself

I love how you put this! That is exactly how I feel - there reality I live and his aren't even in the same universe. He frequently forgets/ or pretends to forget the horrible things he says. Most recently he deleted a comment that was nice that I made on facebook, then denied it and when I went back deleted the whole post. Does he think I am that stupid - why yes he does. He tells me all kinds of horrible things about myself that I KNOW are not true.....I could have written either of the first 2 posts. NOW is different though....somewher I snapped, and all his comments and meanness just didn't matter...so I told him to leave. Calmly...that I was done. And what is scary is I mean it.......I told him that maybe with counseling we could try, but other than that that I am done....I'm not yelling anymore, I'm calm and peaceful about my decision....my reality is now my reality...without his influence.

coffeedrinker

tiredspouse,

in the back of my mind, while divorcing my husband of 17 years, i hoped that one day my three daughters would see my strength and admire me for the decision i took to break up our family. they are almost all young adults now, and i still believe that.

silkspin

Even though my H is not mean or abusive, he still had tendrils of things in the above posts. Shows that no matter where on the spectrum they land, it's a common thing seemingly with this disease.

He used to tell me that I'm the one who changed. He was still the same happy go lucky, wanting to love life guy and somewhere along the way I got bitter and angry. I couldn't unwind. I was the party-pooper. I wonder why? All the times I had to drag his butt from a cab, worry when he didn't come home etc. Gee, I totally blew things out of proportion, he simply enjoyed unwinding after a difficult week and yet I made him a monster. I was unappreciative of all the good he did do - dishes, taking out the garbage. Wow, someone should give that guy a medal for taking out the trash!
Our sex life declined too - who can be intimate with someone who passes out snoring and gross on the weekend, or who gets up looking hung and rough? Sexy, huh? Well it was me again - I wasn't sexy anymore, I didn't try so hard to wear sexy underthings or seduce him. And yet, at the beginning when I believed this, I would try and nothing would change anyway. Go figure.
But this was so subtle that it was barely perceptible. Our conversations like this would happen as a result of my nagging/anger over drinking episodes. I realized that when I engaged with him, he would lash out in these ways because it would quickly bring things back to the norm and deflect any need to look at himself. After al anon, that all changed.

Now that he's sober for almost a year, these things seem to have left with the booze. He no longer says these things and actually has admitted some of his wrongs and has apologized. Things have come a long way, but now if he ever does engage, I disengage and tell him I don't accept those things as mine. It works pretty well to halt that train of thought with him.

Still Waters

It's not even parallel - it's far far removed. He is the expert on everything, while having no experience with any of it.

MissFixit

Yes

He is the nicest man in the world and he will be the first one to tell you so.

dothi

Hi coffeedrinker,

Daughter of alcoholic dad here, whose codependent mom stayed with him but tried to leave him a few times. I admit that I absolutely did not support her. I also did not see what alcohol had to do with the problems in our family, or why dad was so happy all the time while mom was so angry. These are things I could not have an adult perspective on until I was an adult.

As a woman in her mid-20s now, the relationship I have with my mom is quite literally the best it's ever been. I understand that she did the best she could with what she knew and what resources she had. But there was a learning curve that took a few years as I put myself, my family, and my world into perspective. It also took some time to sort out my anger and figure out what I was really upset about (instead of just venting it at mom).

Don't hold your breath that your daughters will understand by the time they graduate high school. Their brains and their relationships with other people are still developing well into their 20s. I believe you will have strong relationships with your daughters again, but it may not happen until they've completely grown up. Sometimes it seems that rewarding relationships with your children is the most extreme form of delayed gratification we will ever experience. But it can and (in all likelihood) will happen.

Tally

My ex A is sober (*dry) nearly two years now and still doesn't think he did anything wrong when drinking, if anything was mentioned about past behaviors all the excuses in the world still applied.
As long as you know the truth and believe what you feel in your heart, does it REALLY matter how he justifies his behaviour to himself?

grrl77

Oh my, how I can relate with the altnerate jacked up reality. My ex often left me feeling paranoid, too and sometimes I look back and go, "Hrm, was it really that way?" He once told me a drunk convo, that he "didn't know if he could look at me the same" because I used to work as an underwriter in the mortgage industry, since you know, I apparently single-handedly took out the entire financial economy. You'd think I told him I was selling my "cash and prizes" on the street for dope, from the way he was acting! He then went on to tell me that his job is upstanding, and generally, he doesn't bother with people that make under $50,000 a year. He's just too good for that.

Not. Even. Kidding.

Keep in mind, at the time? I was a temp making well under that and he was interested in me. He also went off about how he looks down upon people with tattoos and piercings, they're unprofessional, etc. The next day, I told him what he said. He, of course, didn't remember it. Was confused, because... well. He works with people that make a lot more than he does with tatoos and piercings - that's just the business in which he works! :P (Let's not forget to mention the girl he took interest in after me works at a convenient store down in his building, probably making minimum wage. Hrm. That's neither here nor there, though, just an admitted catty jab. :P ) He was mortified at what he'd said in regards to the money thing. Didn't deny it, just was freaked out that he had no recollection of saying it.

Let's not forget the instance last July, where I'd worn a gorgeous black dress to an outing we went to. I'd shown him the dress before we went out, I told him about it, and when I appeared from his bathroom, he told me how gorgeous I looked. About a month ago, he started ranting about that night I wore that dress. Told me I was "wildly overdressed," and "embarassed him." This dress was a conservative knee length pretty black dress that every woman I know owns. Showed a little boob. Nothing extreme. Completely appropriate for the evening. I mean, what guy wouldn't want a gorgeous woman in a pretty dress next to them for the evening? I guess one that didn't feel that great about themselves to begin with maybe?

Except this time, there was no "Oh my God I really said that?!" Mainly because we barely talk anymore. He won't pick the phone up when he's sober, even. I think he's too embarassed. It seems he's getting worse. Whatever the reason is, it's not my business.

All this used to upset me, and sometimes it still does, and then I kinda throw myself in the reality of it - I'm a beautiful, gorgeous, smart woman. I might have some issues, like codependency, but I'm working on it. He's got his own issues, and I pray that he finds it in himself to get himself some help. I try to limit the insanity that surrounds him and his problem as best I can, though I slip sometimes. But that's totally what it is - absolute insanity. The man that I find that I miss, is the guy underneath it all. Who I know, and who he is right now, are completely different.

bookwyrm

My STBXAH tried to enforce his 'parallel' reality on me and it worked for many years. I disbelieved myself to the point I thought I was going crazy/getting early onset dementia. I'm glad to say no more now!

Thumper

This was a good thread for me today as I mistrust myself to often. It is an battle to often to try and convince myself that my reality is *real*. I am not a crazy or heartless person.

Alcoholics do have their own damn version of reality an they actually believe it.

BuffaloGal

To me, that, and not drinking, is the heart of alcoholism. My 10 year old daughter can already see through her dad's "excuses" (her word). When we were married he spent a lot of time in the parallel reality (claimed that his wife was fat and boring... etc. I am 5'6" and weigh 125 lb, by the way... said his wife was a prude... NOT! During our divorce I acquired a FWB partly for therapeutic purposes). But he would also come back to the world as we know it (admitted that he had poor impulse control, that he had a hard time telling me the truth... admitted that I asked him to move out because I rightly couldn't stand living with him anymore)

At that time he doesn't entirely believe his own crap-- I dunno about now. The ten or twenty percent of him that knew he's full of s**t kept him feeling guilty and added an extra layer of misery to his life, but it leaves me with some hope that he has the ability to drag himself out. He's not stupid, despite his best efforts to make himself so.

grrl77

I wonder what that is, you know? Like some of the stuff G would say in his rant, he wouldn't even remember the next day. In fact, that night we talked about the mortgage crisis stuff and how, you know, I was pretty much evil for working in that field at one point two years prior, heh... When i confronted him about it the next day, he didn't remember. In fact, he was *horrified* he'd said such things. Then he wound up e-mailing me the next day at work, telling me he becomes such a monster when he drinks, and he's truly sorry. He said he knows he needs to get a handle on it, and wants to inquire at work about seeking help. He did just that, too. He just never actually went. We'd talked about all that before, his fears and stuff, in sober convos. He just wasn't ready.

But now, it seems like... he's beyond even saying he's sorry. He knows sorry doesn't cut it anymore. He said, "I know my sorrys won't change anything until I actually get clean one day." And he left it at that. The dumbass comments still come, no sorries ever follow up - I guess I just wonder how we go from being horrified and embarassed to... him just rocking and rolling how he is, and... essentially being OKAY with it all? Does he really believe this crap?

honoryourself

Just want to add that mine is very involved in his alternate reality. As long as I can't "prove" (or he thinks I can't prove) that he has done something, then he hasn't done it and seems to truly believe that.

I could go on and on.. but honestly, he's not worth the effort. haha I just know that he's not what I want anymore. But I liked whomever posted before that they were married to two totally different people.. haha! Feels about right right now.. though int he beginning I think we both felt a lot of connection, I guess I didn't know him well enough, and likewise I suppose. I am sure AH's new friends all 'know' that I"m a cheating, lying, money hungry, b*tch who is set out to make his life miserable, trying to make him go poor and ruin him, etc. etc... So far from the truth.

grrl77

Indeed. Last night, I got told we fight all the time because we're so different naivity-wise. He used an example of when I was there last - I made a comment about how the guy laying on the subway floor could be dead. He wasn't moving, didn't even look like he was breathing. I said, well.. he could be? I was genuinely concerned. He then went on about how I'm so "non-judgemental." Last I checked, that wasn't a bad thing? But apparently, non-judgemental = not having an opinion on something, but if i have an opinion on something, then "all we do is fight."

It's just a ridiculous cyclical thing.

Still Waters

Yeah, mine is claiming I abandoned the marriage, but in a parallel universe he sent me multiple emails telling me to get out of his house. I guess those just don't exist on his planet.

Still Waters

It's definitely a clear indication of just how deluded the alcoholic mind can be. The scary thing is, in my AH's case, he's dry. Or he was when I left.

He's claiming he can't support himself, that he needs me to pay permanent alimony - yet he recently bought himself a new toy. He came and took the vehicle I left in, in the middle of the night, leaving me stranded - he claims I stole it. It was purchased during the marriage and was the only vehicle I had access to. Now he has all three vehicles, I have none.

Yet he wants me to pay his attorney and court fees.

They are - even if dry and not in recovery - insane.