cessy68

Hi all,

I'm so irritated.

Anyhow, since I don't have the energy it takes to do detective work, or research, can you guys answer some questions for me about suboxone?

Long and short. The abf's 2 best friends had a mini-intervention w/ him. Talked w/ me about he 'plan of action'. Although I was happy that his business partner and bf were finally 'aware', (not in denial themselves) and confronted him.... here is what happend.

They got him suboxone.... URGH. WTF? Yea, got it for him. From where? From who? Who the heck knows. I know that suboxone is a program, I know that physicians are supposed to monitor it, and that opiate drugs need to be out for 48 hrs before starting....etc. I know the basics.

One of the 'friends' called me and asked if he made an appt w/ the doctor... I said NO. Only one out of the two friends agrees w/ me, that this MUST be a Dr. supervised thing.... NOT buying them off whomever.

Anyhow, I think he is getting 'high' from the suboxone. A.) can that happen?
B.) can you become just as addicted to suboxone? C.) How do I handle this?

I'm getting the abf in my face everyday now saying, "don't I look great?" "look my eyes are back to normal"... "hey I gained 5 lbs"... " I have so much more energy"..........and yet, I want to slap him across his face.

I think he's fooling himself/me/and his friends that he's magically 'better' because of this miracle cure.

His friend called me this a.m., because they are supposed to have another meeting with him.... that I don't wish to be involved in. I'm at my wits end. However, I told him, I would try to get the RIGHT info about what to do here/ how to handle this.

Gosh, I'm just so done with this crap.

thanks for any insight.

Love,
cess

Freedom1990

School has had me incredibly busy, so pardon me for asking. Last I read, he wasn't living with you anymore. Did I miss something?

cessy68

No, freedom, you didn't miss anything, just to ashamed to admitt that the idiot I am took him back based on his promised to 'get clean', didn't know this is what getting clean would entail.

Furthermore, my sister and I are working my own program to get me 'done' with him. She pointed out that I keep asking him to 'leave', hoping that might make things better. She made me realize I have to be DONE with him when I ask him to leave..... so that no promises, words, anything, would allow me to get sucked back in.

Now It's the holidays.... and I don't want to do anything rash. Now he's got the above issue, (telling me and his partner, and his bf) that he is 'better'.... it just dosen't work that way does it?

I don't question him. I don't ask anything about anything. I'm really trying really hard to come to terms with the fact that this isn't working....

And yet, I have the above.

He's cured!! haha.

(extreme sarcasim.)

Sorry to dissapoint you freedom.

I know you are mad at me.

Love,
cess

Freedom1990

Cessy, I'm not mad or disappointed at you. I've often talked about how long it finally took me to hit a codependent bottom and quit doing the same thing over and over and over...13 years. I've still got a few years of screaming untreated codependency on you, my dear!

My suggestion would be to stay out of it. Let him and his friends figure out this whole suboxone thing if he's delusional enough to think that is recovery.

It's not your problem unless you choose to make it yours, and stay involved with what is going on.

cassandra2

The subs can be abused in the sense that addicts usually will take their opiates full speed and then wait for the WD effects and then take the subs to ease the WD's.

I know that subs can also be abused by people whom are NOT addicted to opiates. I know someone who abused the subs just like addicts abuse the opiates.

Is he getting high off the subs? No, he may be using them to not experience the WD effects. When my RABF was taking the subs he felt like crap. Looked like crap too. They gave him headaches and really kinda left him feeling fluish..But that was him. He weaned himself off of the subs and then relapsed.

The only way the subs should be used is if they are in a program and being monitored with their dosages and held accountable with drug tests and a group and or one on one counseling.

It took a couple of weeks for the doctor to find the right dosage with the subs for my RABF and that probably was the reason he felt like crap. These arent magical pills you can take and your drug problem is gone. Subs are tools to use to help with the physical effects of getting off the opiates. Not something you can just take and say you are cured.

Nothing changes if nothing changes. If he isnt getting into a program or thinks he can handle this or is in the mind set that these pills are gonna fix his problem.....HE IS NOT DONE YET!

Just my opinion honey. I feel for you I really do. Your back on the hamster wheel.....

cassandra2

Cess, this is being said in the most loving way possible. Honey it worries me that you are in such a place within yourself that you think that a person you dont even know is mad or disappointed with you for the way you are living your OWN life.

You said that you need to be done with him when you kick him out and you are right. The only way you are ever gonna be DONE with him is if you start loving yourself. I mean really LOVING yourself. Your statement really struck a cord with me. You really think so low of yourself that you feel like strangers (no offense Freedom) are mad at you.

You need to love CESSY. You need to really dig deep and find love within yourself. That love will EMPOWER you to leave for good.

When I left my abusive ex I realized that I loved myself and my kids more then I loved him. I realized that the it was possible for me to care enough about myself to move on without a thought, without the possibility of being sucked back in. But I really had to love myself. Respect myself. Be true to myself and the kind of life I wanted for me and my kids. That could only come from within.....

cessy68

Cass, I think (no offense either) that you are really over-thinking that one.

I have talked to freedom privately, and I value what she thinks.... I would understand frustration/aggrivation/ even anger ..... based on my yo-yo relationship. It takes energy to support a person, (like me) who keeps makeing the same mistakes, in the name of 'following my heart'.

In addition, I guess A LOT of us here, must be really screwed up then, becasue I have had NUMEROUS pm's asking about my situation, and people admitting that they were afraid when they took their signifigant other back, that they didn't want to post because people would be 'mad' at them, or that they would get a rash of **** because of an action etc on their part.

I believe that there was even a time that you and I talked about not wanting to admit things here...... because we were ashamed, or didn't want people handing us a bunch of criticism.

I KNOW in my head taking him in/back, etc is WRONG.....

My heart still wins.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being afraid that people that I have leaned on for support, (here) would be upset. I get upset with people here... wishing I could knock some sense into them.

It's more than frustrating.

ANYHOW,

Thanks for the answers, and I'm glad you are doing well.

Love,
cess

bluebelle

As you have guessed, the Suboxone isn't a magical cure. It is something that needs to be done under a doctor's supervision, and needs to be combined with a recovery program. Who knows where they are getting the Suboxone. It is troubling to me that they are thinking that they can magically cure him. If he wants to go through recovery, he is going to have to do it himself. He will need to do the work. He will need to work the program. There is just no easy way to recover from opiates.

My RABF used Suboxone in his recovery. He regularly saw a psychiatrist who counseled him and who prescribed him his dosage. He had to work closely with her to find the right amount, and also to decrease the dosage.

My advice would be to stay out of your BF's recovery. He and his friends are going to do what they want. Your BF will make his own decisions. There is nothing that you can do to fix him, or to make him go through recovery in the "right" way. I know, because I tried for too long to tell my RABF how he should recover.

I'm slowly learning that the best way for my RABF and myself is for me to stay out. I don't know what's best for him. It has been a hard lesson for me. I have to keep on reminding myself of this over and over again.

What's been going on in your own life? What happened with your job decision? What are you going to do about school next semester? I'm thinking about taking one class while still working full time. I figure that at least then I will feel like I'm accomplishing something.

littlebird77

From what I know... You can't get high off of suboxone. My recovering ABF is on it. There was a time were he was out a few days and I knew someone who could get it off the street... So yes you can get it off the street, but its crazy expensive. It is really not worth it to the addict to pay for it if they can get the other for cheaper. I agree though it needs to be under doctors supervision... The time I mentioned he could not get the script, my ABF's doctor dropped him claiming he missed an appointment. He was clean as a whistle, and the withdrawals were horrible for him. We went to the ER, and there was nothing they could do.... Thank goodness we found an outpatient program.

I'm all over the place, but my advice if your ABF wants to find a doctor is to find one that works with addicts. The doctor we worked with was a family doctor and charged him cash, along with the insurance. These doctors have to watch a video to be licensed to write scripts. My point is many of these doctors do not know the care involved when dealing with an addict and insurance. This is why we looked into the outpatient program. Where we could go to a doctor that understood this medicine needs to be monitored along with therapy.... The last doctor we had knew nothing about addiction, so when my ABF missed the appointment due to insurance reasons, she blamed it on him relapsing, even though he came up clean on a blood and urine test.

outtolunch

Buying subs off the street is not recovery.

Subs are not a magic bullet. Because Suboxone contains buprenorphine, it is also an opiate, and is addictive like any other opiate.

By taking Suboxone one is trading an addiction to a drug like heroin or oxy for an addiction to buprenorphine. People abuse subs all the time. Getting off subs involves withdrawals and for this reason MDs supervise a taper, over time. Of course when one is buying off the street, anything can and likely will happen.

You took him back for reasons that are all to do with you. That's your business. Can you give this man the gift of dignity to decide when or if he wants to pursue recovery?

MrsMagoo

Cessy, I've ridden the ride you're on and I still choose to get on it sometimes, I don't know if it's "for old times sake" or what. I think part of me misses the chaos. I don't know.

I went back and forth with my husband. Fortunately it was only for about 2 1/2 years but it felt like forever and I was so frustrated because I was on SR, being coached by "The Masters" and despite their patience and sometimes semi-brutal reality checks, I still did as I pleased. My heart and my head would not aline.

Now...I finally sent my husband (who I deeply love) packing again in July. This time I really meant it. I don't think he thought I meant it. He wasn't using again but he did allow is doctors to overmedicate him which was just his way of being high legally. The behavior was still there. He still wasn't participating in life or family and not working.

He relapsed immediately. I don't feel guilty for that and I'm not surprised.

He has been homeless and living on the streets and in shelters since August. I feel guilty sometimes. I survived this. Everyone tells me I saved his life and one day he may just thank me. It doesn't help the pain of today or next week.

This is my point, after being on the street since August - loosing everything and I mean everything including his daughter (there is a one year restraining order), he is finally in treatment. Long term treatment (whoo hooo!). THE PLAN WORKED!!!

Unfortunately, the addict needs to be STRIPPED of EVERYTHING before they do the right thing and your boyfriend and his friends are not doing the right thing. The intentions are good but it's BS. Suboxone is a RX and unless a doctor is writing the Rx, it's an illegal drug. You are doing good to stay out of it but I would take it even further and get completely out of it and make him leave again. If his friends are so concerned about him, he can stay with them, he won't be on the street.

I know, believe me I know, the holidays are coming up and my experience has been that the holidays aren't so hot when your living with any type of addict. It's impossible not to worry. I'm not a gambler and I was willing to follow the advice of others that have lived this, like Freedom and take a chance because I knew MY way wasn't working. THEIR way has.

Now I don't know if we'll get back together or not. Alot has happened but do I fantasize that one day I can still have my happily ever after - YOU BETCHA so see, I'm not cured, but I am making progress.

Thank you SR.

outtolunch

I do not think there is a frequent poster here, who has not ignored their head and led with their heart, too many times, as it relates to the addicted person in their life.

Being ashamed goes hand in hand with codependency. Being ashamed becomes our identity.....and sometimes I think it's just another bit of rationalization we use to keep from exposing ourself to ourself.

cassandra2

Yes Cess I remember the times we would sit and talk about all the recovery nonsense and talk about how we felt like we were being attacked or kicked when we were down. But FOR ME that was when I was the sickest. It was when I was still in the mode of thinking IF HE WOULD JUST GET BETTER THINGS WOULD BE ALRIGHT. That was the time I refused to look at myself and realize that my self esteem was in the toliet.

When I got to the point of being broken and was receptive to maybe just maybe looking at myself and how I played a role in the addiction rollercoaster, it wasnt until then that I realized I was sick and needed help too.

It was at that point that fixing my addict was no longer an option. I was fighting for my own damn survival. I was drowning and I didnt know how to stop. It was then that this voice inside of me told me to fight. FIGHT FOR MYSELF. That was when the pain stopped and I had fully accepted that he was a drug addict and that there was no changing it and that our relationship as I once knew it was dead.

The pain stopped because I stopped resisting what was happening. I started to look at myself and what I needed to do to get healthy.

Now, today I am in a different spot and I am healthier then I have been in a long time. Healthy enough to own my part and continue to stay on my side of the street. Healthy enough to see someone else struggling with low self esteem.

Honey, just like a drug addict can spot another drug addict a codie can spot or in our case read/hear the same thing in another codie.

Just ask yourself this. If you were in a better place emotionally, if you had confidence in yourself and your ability how would you view your ABF? Would you give him the time of day? Would you be fighting so hard for something that your BF doesnt want?

I know how painful it is to be there really I do. I say all of this with so much love for you Cess because I have been there. I know how it feels to be ashamed of going back for seconds. I have been there I know. But I also know that it wasnt until I felt good about me and loved me enough to realize that while in active addiction my BF was no longer something I wanted.

My heart goes out to you. I promise you you will get there. You will be sick and tired of being sick and tired. Everything happens for a reason and when you are ready you will let go and live a beautiful life..Because you are a beautiful woman......

Carol Star

Sounds like he is changing seats on the Titanic!

Serenity Bound

I agree 100% as I one of those posters.

cessy68

The gift of dignity? To a man who is lying to himself? How dignified is that?

I am giving him the 'opportunity' to get clean & sober himself. I don't ask/berate/tell him what to do. When our conversations revolve around his 'recovery', it is because HE is attempting to entertain them w/me.

Frankly, I just nod, and yep him to death, because I don't agree with him fooling himself, and in turn, attempting to fool me.

I don't agree w/ anything.....

BUT, this is not my road to travel..... he can do as he pleases. In the meantime, I feel that I'm not being honest as well.... for I just yep and nod, not in agreement, but as a mean to 'listen' to him, and silently pray he finds his own way.

It's funny, I'm not running and chaseing and begging him to 'change' or get sober, he is running and chaseing me, asking me NOT to abandon him, because he is doing so well with his little plan of suboxone.

BUT.... somehow this makes me at fault. I'm exhasperated.

overtime

you can def get high of those. you crush them up and snort. they usually make people throw up.

Callie

You can also shoot subs. My RAH would use the subs when he ran out of the pills. They'd be a 'bridge' until he could get what he wanted. I've also heard that you can take enough or shoot enough to 'break through' the blocking of subs. For sure he needs to be seeing a doctor and working a program. Without that he's NOT in recovery. You know that though cess. I'm glad you posted girl!

cessy68

Thanks Callie, I'm glad that YOU are glad that I posted, because I'm not so glad....

Exactly what I thought would happend, happend. I don't know... perhaps intentions are well-meant, but If people here say that codependency & self esteem issues go hand in hand, then kicking that person in the gut isn't really helping things either.

Thank you for responding to me.

Love,
Cess

cassandra2

Cess how do you feel you have been kicked in the gut? Lets get this out. Lets work through this together. Get unstuck.