SadButHopeful

Well I am learning not to try and control the drinking anymore so hopefully these arguments won't happen as often, but....

When I have confronted my AH about his drinking, he will turn it around on me and point out the fact that I'm overweight. He once told me that he would stop drinking if I would not eat chocolate ever again.

If I have a take-away Chinese or McD's, (which is rare btw) he uses this as an excuse to drink because I'm indulging.

How do you respond to this?

justagirl78

My ABF has done the same. Told me he'd stop drinking if I did (I don't have a problem). I outright told him I won't - though for this to work between us I know I have to reassess that decision - at least temporarily.

He's just deflecting his addiction onto you. What he needs to realise is that the decision to drink is on him regardless of outside influences (you eating chocolate). But I think you know that.

What can you do? Call his bluff maybe? Don't eat chocolate, don't eat take-away. Blind side him. It may work, it may not, but at least he knows you have will power he didn't think you had.

Startingover2

Its immature, childish etc...but I guess its what an alcoholic does to justify the drinking.
My exah does it all the time. He always points out that his drinking and cheating were not the only reasons our marriage fell apart. Yep, I will have to say I am not perfect and have issues too, but the drinking and cheating are deal breakers.

He still says things like "if you would make some changes then things would be different between us". Then I ask what changes? He can't answer.

Like I said I am not perfect and probably have a few quirky issues and things I did that irritated him, but I was willing to work on them and change it. He wasn't.

sailorjohn

Is there a reason you're still trying to convince the AH that he has a problem?

Not my thought, but would you try to reason with a person that was obviously mentally ill?

tigger11

I think you know as well as I that you stopping anything won't stop his drinking. Only HE can do that, and only if and when he wants to, and (in my opinion), only with help from AA, etc. If I may suggest... work on you, focus on you, not him or his drinking, through SR, AlAnon, counseling, etc. He's blame shifting. Don't buy into it. Hugs!

hmbld

This does not work and only serves to make you miserable. I did this years ago and it solves nothing.

The best course of action is to not engage him at all and focus on getting your own sanity back. Find a hobby other than him.

justagirl78

Good to know. What just thoughts I was throwing out. I've no clue. In the middle of all of it myself.

hmbld

I wasted far too much of my life trying to change myself over the stupid stuff he'd throw at me. "Well if you'd lose weight maybe I'd drink less, if you made more money maybe I'd drink less, maybe if you weren't always hanging out with your friends maybe I would drink less"..... The list goes on and on and all they are are words and a means of deflecting for an alcoholic. They have zero intention of changing their drinking habits and running you around in circles is their way of buying time and getting you off their back if even for just a little while.

They are also very good at finding and pointing out every nitnoid flaw that you have, heck they'll even make up flaws in order to justify in their mind that it's perfectly okay for them to embalm themselves. It's kind of like their security blanket.

transformyself

Wow, that was a super fast little lesson.

At first I got real angry when I read your post. I have some things to say about blameshifting and denial. My AH does this too.

And it was a good time for a long while I'd get self indignant, point out what he's doing. Stew about it for hours, days even. And the next time he'd do it, my reaction would be even stronger. Geez, didn't this guy get it?

But I don't like that madness anymore. I really don't. We blame each other, argue. No one wins ever. I feel bad about myself so does he. The best thing I've ever done for him and me is stop arguing. Stop trying to talk to him about it. I still have to hold boundaries about drinking around the kids, but I state the reminders once and let him have a freak out session all by himself. I don't even gloat over my detachment, I just focus on my own life and his problems are smaller to me.

Detachment is the only way to sanity for me. If I get into it over anything with AH, I'm the one to walk away now. No thanks.

Linkmeister

I called this the "gripe du jour" syndrome as throughout the course of our relationship, exABF would find flaws and yes, make up flaws. Some of them were dillys and of course, the furthest thing from the truth. Even if someone can withstand some of these slings and arrows, it's hard not to walk on eggshells, not to wonder if some of what they say has a grain of truth in it or if something you say will set them off.

I had it both ways from him-drunk and sober (but a dry drunk) and you wonder at what point it will stop-as much as you can keep telling yourself that all of this character assassination is not really directed at you, that it's the A's shame and guilt and anger coming out, it does not change what was said and how these words can't be taken back. Sure there's hurt involved but what I think I lost the most was my trust for him in spite of the countless times he said how much he loved me and the remorse and everything that goes along with it.

I just went through this madness last weekend and when you start arguing over semantics, how a word was used in a sentence and then tear each other down over something as stupid as that, you know the madness won't end till you walk away, till you detach and do whatever it takes to enforce those boundaries. I felt bad that I lost my temper on a grand scale and so does he.

So, when he kept trying to call and start where we left off, I hung up. I unplugged the phone. That was my detachment from the madness.

Silly me-I talked to him yesterday re his work situation and he dodged a bullet over losing his job. He feels the shame and remorse over this latest binge and I let him talk and was very non committal. Can't face me or even talk on the phone, wants to do communication by MSN as he can verbalize thoughts better. That was fine being on opposite sides of the country, but not a 10 minute drive from each other. He left me some messages, I shut down MSN.

I kind of slipped for a minute but called an AL-Anon friend, came here to SR for lots of ESH and encouragement and saw through the mind games and manipulations. It's not easy but it sure is a lot saner than going through the dance with exABF.....

Still Waters

How much should I care about what an active alcoholic thinks/says to me? Zero.

How much should I care about what a non-recovering sober alcoholic thinks/says to me? Zero.

Beyond what the judge needs to know (in my case) I don't take anything my AH says as meaningful in any way.

NewMe11109

Quack. Quack. Quack.

Remember, an alcoholic must quit for themselves not for anyone else (or chocolate for that matter). Therefore, his statement is worth nothing. I know it hurts, but don't engage in this conversation.

ItsmeAlice

Ugh! I heard that tune like a broken record from my XABF.

The reality is, though, you are not the cause - you are the scapegoat.

He is the reason for his drinking. You are the excuse he gives.

When the arguments swirled up and my XABF's drinking was put back on him, he would drive home my binge eating, my obesity, my age starting to show, my lack of interest in sex, on and on and on.

My retort used to be to remind him that I wasn't any of those things when we found each other BUT he was abusing alcohol for years before we met. Chicken meet egg, egg meet chicken...

When I finally began to understand an alcohlic's denial and how they'll given any excuse to continue their addiction unimpeded, I began to understand how his alcohol abuse became my excuse for letting my health go, for binge eating, for all of it. The reality is, I did all of those things. I was the reason it continued. He was the excuse I gave to keep doing it.

I did get help for my health and I did lose the weight on my own because I couldn't stand what I had become and I just couldn't keep on feeling sick every day. I admit, though, that wanting to show him a thing or two and that my weight wasn't the reason he was an alcoholic was a motivator during those late night workouts.

If you're wondering, I lost the weight and looked and felt so much better. His drinking got worse and he began to get violent for the first time in our relationship. Could it have been that his excuse over my weight was withering away?? His progressing rages and my blooming confidence caused me to seek recovery. We separated seven months later.

Alice

Linkmeister

Alice-My weight has skyrocketed - while I have always had a weight problem, it was only when I read your post that this hit home for me. It's time to look after me now.

Mind you when I was separating from my husband (a non A but a real a**), stress caused my weight to go down from healthy to...well, let's just say that I was a healthy 130 and went down to 90......but I digress. You talked about his rages when your confidence bloomed as you sought recovery and your weight dropped-how ironic when you started to look after yourself that the ex's rages intensified.

The biggest sticking point with me and my exABF was my going to Al-Anon-he always told me that I wasn't with him long enough to need Al-Anon-last week, when he said this once again, I said I've been with him too long not to seek recovery through Al-Anon.

He went from lecturing to rage, to anger to making me choose between him and Al-Anon and still goes in that circle. Since his latest relapse, he has been to one AA meeting and has come up with the usual excuses.

I've "Let Go and Let God" and left him totally alone. Detachment is tattooed on my eyelids so every time I close my eyes and start to miss him, I see that word. I broke down and took a call from him yesterday regarding his work-he dodged a bullet and managed to keep his job-with conditions. I passed no comment nor did I offer any words of encouragement. Told me that he missed our communication on MSN like "the old days" when I was living across the country from him.

I had to call him today as he still had some of my books and I wanted them back-no answer, but a MSN message later no mention of the books but saying that he preferred writing his thoughts.. Talk about living in total isolation - won't answer the phone but will talk on line-another form of control and manipulation. I shut down my MSN and walked away from the chaos that is his life. As for the books-I've seen the ones of mine he has in a 2nd hand store and will pop in tomorrow to pick them up. A small price to pay for not having to go over to see him and get those books.

The irony is that here he is, having lived here all of his life - and having burned all of his bridges with family and friends - having no one but me (now he has lost me)-who has lived here 9 or so months and has made some wonderful friends in Al-Anon and is looking forward to living in a semblance of normalcy......

Kimmieh

I am still waiting for my weight to make me pee the bed or get arrested...

sojourner

There is a technique called "broken record" and may be helpful to you in this case. Bringing up this topic can only be done in a very short, quick period of time because of the nature of it. You must be willing to be "in and out" quickly with the statement that you can see that he has a problem with drugs and/or alcohol by very quickly changing the topic or (more likely) just leaving the room. If he does (and he will especially at first) counter by bringing up you and your problems, you simply say something like, "You may have a point there. But my point right now is that i can see that you have a drug and/or alcohol problem." And if he counters again about you and your problems, you simply repeat, "yes, you may have a point there. But my point right now is that i can see that you have a drug and/or alcohol problem."

Using this technique can bring on great anger on the addict's part. You may want to cut it off after only saying it once by saying something like, "I've really got to get going here. See you later."

This is the broken record technique as I know it. Trying googling it if you need other ideas or phrases that you think will de-fuse his anger.

Hope that helps.

worthyoflove

Maybe it was his way of saying you're not perfect either. Trying to analyze what people say is like self-abuse because I could choose to do other things I love since life is soooo short.

ItsmeAlice

Linkmeister,
I wasn't with him long enough to need Al-Anon-last week, when he said this once again, I said I've been with him too long not to seek recovery through Al-Anon.

This is brilliant! Anyone can be affected by an alcoholic no matter how long the exposure. When that effect lingers on, even if the alcoholic is no longer around, then I think Al-Anon or another recovery program is going to be benefitial. It's not the length of exposure, it's the impact of it, I think.

I am not surprised at all that his favored communication is in writing. My XABF used to complain profusely about the idea of texting, but as his drinking binges began to string together and he wanted to hide his intoxication level from me, he started using texting more and more. Even from another room in the house. Of course, his texting always veered off point and sometimes turned to complete gibberish, so he wasn't hiding anything that way either.

I think these things, like the original OPs situation are all common symptoms of addiction.

Working on an addict has little benefit if any at all. Working on ourselves instead has every benefit guaranteed!

Alice

tigger11

Alice - lots of well articulated wisdom there, thank you!

Kim - LOL, you cracked me UP!

SadButHopeful

Just wanted to pop in and say thanks so much for all of your insight and advice

This is brilliant, thanks!!!