Learn2Live

Author Iyanla VanZant says, "When you see crazy comin', CROSS the street!"

So why is it that when I see crazy coming, KNOWING everything I know, having experienced everything I have experienced, working as hard as I have to find and maintain my peace and serenity, I not only DON'T cross the street, but I open my door, smile, hand it a warm cup of cocoa, and invite it in?

"'Cause you're a caretaker....'cause you're codependent...'cause you're such a sweet person....'cause you're an alcoholic....'cause you have mental illness....'cause you haven't fully worked the steps with a sponsor....'cause you haven't worked thru Step 4 thorougly enough....."

'Cause I WHAT?!?!??!! I don't operate on automatic pilot anymore. I am no longer needy by any stretch of the imagination. I am the most self-aware, persistent, conscious, questioning person I know. I now am able to think through 99.9% of all my actions beforehand; I'm no longer operating out of depression, fear, panic, anger, or other negativity; I am a very strong, confident, capable, and independent woman; I have great social supports and a job and income I love; I have a full and happy life. I have had a spiritual awakening, that is, I have made conscious contact with my Higher Power and use and respect him as much as I am able to in my daily life. I am happy with my marital and parental status; I have traveled the world; I had a good childhood; awesome twenties; productive thirties; still look good in my fourties; have developed an attitude and daily practice of gratitude; I have taught myself how to stop WANTING and LONGING... So somebody please tell me, what ELSE is there that could be causing this to happen AGAIN?

'Cause I STILL have some lesson to learn that I have not learned yet? I know I am a slow-learner sometimes and I know I am a "late bloomer" as they say. I know I DO have Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder and that contributes to some of my "issues." But what am I MISSING here? Why is it that ever since I was 25, when I got my first house, I invite people to live with me to "get on their feet."? Yes, I have helped people; these were not AMAZING feats that made me feel "better about myself." There's no self-esteem issue here; I have done that work already, 11 years of that work.... I don't feel sorry for people, that's not why I do it; these are FRIENDS that come under hard times and all I do is share space with them. I don't caretake like I'm their Mom. I'm not giving or sacrificing a whole lot for these people; I am and always have been "live and let live"..... I don't NEED or WANT anything from these people, other than: If you live in my house, you must work during the day, be respectful of others, do not disturb my peace and serenity, contribute to the household as best you can, do not lay around on my sofa, and no parties in my house.

My father was like this too. He would stop and help people who were broken down on the side of the road, give them tools or car batteries he could ill-afford to lose. He would pick up young men hitch-hiking and take them to McDonald's, give them a couple bucks, give them his coat, and drop them off someplace dry and warm. He used to go to the grocery store and buy 10 gallons of milk and 10 gallons of bread, and drive over to the REALLY poor people's houses, which were really just shacks (we were already poor but not as poor as these people were) and walk down that dirt road in the winter, and deliver them this food. His mother (my grandmother) ALWAYS had someone living with her that she was helping out. I remember this man who lived with her for years. He was quite obviously alcoholic, but had previously been an insurance salesman. She just provided him a place to live, a bath, and food. She had like 10 siblings and EVERY single one of them got sick from cancer and she nursed them 'till they died. Each and every one.

This does not sound like something that I can change about myself. Nor do I have any desire to do so. But I am learning how to identify healthy boundaries for myself, to an extent; to apply those boundaries; and to practice maintaining them. Can something so complicated (letting someone with obvious troubles and "baggage" move into your house) and potentially harmful to my well-being REALLY be so necessary to learn whatever lesson it is I need to learn? What lesson could it possibly be?

Thanks for any feedback or stories you can provide...

JenT1968

I'm not really sure I understand the question...

if it's not a problem to you which is what you appear to be saying here:

then I don't understand the post.

if it is a problem to you, then some of this can't be as true as you think it is?

I think I must have missed the point of the post somewhere.?

Learn2Live

Hey JenT, it's not a problem so much as it is a PATTERN I see repeated throughout my life, and in my family history. Some of these situations have caused me trouble; some have not.

I don't know what the reason is for me being this way; all I know is that SOMETIMES it gets me in trouble, sometimes it doesn't. Usually, if I do not become romantically involved with someone who I allow to move into my house, there is no problem. But under situations where I become romantically involved with someone, AND they move into my house, I become negatively affected.

I don't know whether or not my "strengths" description paragraph that you say must not be true IS true. I know I believe those things about myself. I know that's how I feel about myself. But perhaps there are things there in my perceptions of myself that may not be true but I just don't see it. That's why I posted what I posted :O)

I am trying to find the reason why I may be doing this repeatedly over time, and am hoping that someone here on SR has had similar observations about themselves or others that they can share with me, to give me a different perspective.

Thanks for your reply :O)

husbandofacoa

Everyone in this program suffers from this behavior to one extent or another. What helped me stop was the years of being blamed by the people that I tried so hard to help. I finally learned, deep in my soul, that I wasn't helping them when I thought I was helping them. Most of these folks need to fall flat on their fat a**es before they will get better. My "helping" has prevented them from growing.

Also, all the ones in my life are mostly ungrateful, lying, a**holes. This too is a pattern. I don't want to help them anymore.

Finally, and one of the most painful things that a sponsor ever said to me: "what are you getting out of this?" He was right! I wasn't helping to help them. I was helping to make me feel special, superior, and like the White Knight! I am not the White Knight. I don't even know what is best for myself! How can I know what is best for them?

mermaidgirl

L2L-I like your post. I can definitely sense what your question is...and the only advice I have is similar to Husbandofacoa. Look at your "helping" with as much clarity as possible. I believe there are different degrees of "helping". Asking yourself what you are getting out of a situation by helping is a difficult one to answer for some of us.

I used to think I had to help, because this is what I was conditioned to do as a child. As I grew up, I realized and keep reminding myself that I need to check my motives at the door before I do this anymore.

The best way I can determine what is going on for myself is to look at how I felt when someone helped me out. Did someone carry me when I couldn't carry myself? Absolutely-and I also remember when it became too much-as in too much helping from someone else. This is the dynamic that I have to be careful of when I am on the other side.

Questions are good...questions to yourself are even better.

Buffalo66

I also have trouble understanding how, at 40, after years of "successful" therapy to work through my childhood, after years of spiritual travel and journey, and after seeing and feeling the CoD in me...Working steps to get past that, seeing As for what they are, consciously understanding, and really choosing to heal...

Why have I gone back to be used and hurt, and taken for a fool?

My current therapist said this to me, and it really rung true. I am now focusing on this phrase as the centerpiece of my work:

" Obviously we are dealing with a part of you that just cannot bear to 'put the face to the crime'. No matter what evidence you are presented with, there is some part of you who is insisting that people do not operate in this way, people are not this evil. We have to pop that part of you's bubble."

mermaidgirl

there is some part of you who is insisting that people do not operate in this way, people are not this evil. We have to pop that part of you's bubble."

Boy did you just put the hammer to the nail. That is me, me, me. It is hard for me to believe that anyone would do this or that to me...that anyone would LIE to me that is also my spouse, or mom, or anyone who claims to love me. It's beyond denial. It's my sick way of trying to get in, or stay in a situations that are simply bad for me and the other.

Still Waters

That's the magical thinking and denial. "It really isn't that bad"

Learn2Live

Thanks for your responses; they all have me questioning, thinking and digging more.........

There has only been ONE instance where I set out from the start with the conscious intention of HELPING someone and allowing them to move into my home. I KNEW I would have to sacrifice some of my time, peace, and serenity. What I had to give up was NOTHING compared to what this man, who my family has known since he was a child, was struggling with. No, it may not have been the HEALTHIEST decision in my life, but more than anything else, he was mostly just a NUISANCE. Caused a little heartbreak but nothing life-altering.

And I realized something recently from this experience I'm describing and that is, when I find myself BEGINNING to obsess about someone else, THAT is the time to nip the obsession in the bud. Early detection and awareness of this is KEY. All addictions have been defined as unhealthy, out-of-control obsessions. I think that falling in love with someone is an OBSESSION that we call "Love." I think this way because I have been in Love many times, and EACH time I fall in Love, I become OBSESSED with the object of my Love. And THAT is what gets me stuck in unhealthy relationships to begin with....

Anyway, peeps can call me what they like (alcoholic, codependent, whatever) but I am glad I allowed this person to move into my house, and I will never go back on that; he has cleaned himself up; discovered and accepted that he is alcoholic, etc; achieved 6 months clean and sober for the first time in 35 years; began working on his Recovery thru A.A.; has accepted that he needs help; now WANTS help; is going to a drug and alcohol counselor and a psychiatrist (with no prodding from or involvement by me at all); and started taking pride and care about his appearance. He spent about $15,000 to get his three missing front teeth replaced. It took him about 5 surgeries and 8 additional dental appointments over the course of about two years.

NO, I take NO credit for ANYTHING. I don't feel a sense of pride in MYSELF. I feel a sense of pride in my friend who has fought a good fight and continues to do so. I get a sense that I did not turn my back on someone who was very obviously dying and he has benefited.

But BEST of all for me, I got a life experience I otherwise would not have gotten. I learned that no, when alcoholics and drug addicts SAY they love you and care about you, they are not necessarily LYING, despite the contradictory behavior they exhibit. I learned I have a SEVERE anger problem. I learned and was able to practice identifying, setting, and maintaining personal boundaries for the first time in my life. I learned that I JUDGE people because of their alcoholism or drug addiction and I learned that doing so is NOT RIGHT or healthy. I learned that just because someone is a crack addict, does NOT mean he is a useless piece of $hit. (If you want evidence of that, I'll be more than happy to oblige you a list.) I learned that it is healthier to have an attitude of gratitude; that there IS a God; and that I can LOVE someone without being IN LOVE with them. I really could go on for quite some time but I'll stop here..... Thanks for listening to those things I've learned.... (An added benefit of allowing that person into my life and my house was that I found SR and have gotten re-introduced to, and focused on, 12-Steps).

As for the rest of the people who have lived with me, what did I get? One paid rent though not a lot, because he was losing his job. I didn't care how much he paid, as long as he was consistent and he helped cover the necessary household expenses. What did I get out of letting a person live in my basement? He was a "kid," with no family, no home, and no food. What I got out of it was that I did not let a person who was like a brother to me be homeless with no one to turn to, and I taught him how to roast a chicken and boil potatoes for himself.

******************

What I know from my own Recovery is that each time you involve yourself in something, each time the same experience comes back to you yet again, there is a LESSON to be learned that you have not yet learned. In EVERY experience I have, I look for the LESSON, especially when that experience has caused me pain or suffering.

What my post is about is, THIS experience, RIGHT NOW, my inviting yet another person to live in my home while he gets his life together is presenting me with a lesson and I'm trying to figure out what that is. He is an old high school buddy of mine who separated from his alcoholic wife a year ago, after many years of what WE already know he has been going through; and had to leave his small children with their mother to move out of state for work.

The Lesson, of course, is about ME--not HIM...RIGHT? I mean, I don't THINK it's about him. But see, I am now romantically involved with him. What is strange to me is that I vowed about 15 years ago, when my first niece and nephew were born, that I would not become romantically involved with a separated man with children; It is against my values..... Hunh..... WOW, did you see that? I just realized I am acting against my own values. That, I know, is a first step toward degrading my own self-esteem..... Now how did I do that? Did I excuse myself from my own value because the wife is an alcoholic and because I think he has NEEDED to get away from her for so long? Am I using HER alcoholism as an excuse for MY own bad behavior????

I don't know how I got here. I DIDN'T relapse; I have not had a drink in quite a while. I am not afraid. I still consider him just a friend, and I have no problem with the guy moving in if that will help him get his head straight, as long as he contributes to the household in a manner that is acceptable to me (as the homeowner); and we have come to a financial agreement regarding that.

I wonder...is the lesson I need to learn about helping people, about some need to help people, or is it about getting romantically involved with old friends? Or perhaps it is so that I can observe MYSELF in this other person who is apparently CODEPENDENT with his alcoholic wife????

I think I'm being impatient, wanting to learn the lesson, without having the experience....

tigger11

A friend of mine said to me today; "You're a romantic idealist. Life just doesn't happen that way." Thinking long and hard about that.

BuffaloGal

In my life, I've found that sometimes I can love someone without being in love with them, and sometimes I can't, and the sooner I know for sure the better off I am.

When you see crazy coming, if you feel moved to pick it up, that's a call that no one can make for you, and which you only have to justify to yourself.

Of course crazy is not worthless or useless, we all have a streak of crazy somewhere, we all deserve love.

But put on a heavy pair of gloves first, because, 9 times out of 10, the nature of crazy is to bite. That goes for your heart too.

Sometimes those lessons I've learned from situations where I've been compelled to help have been absurdly simple. For me the problem wasn't figuring out what the lesson was-- it was learning to take off my blinders long enough to see what was written in huge letters right in front of me. I still opt to help, sometimes, but I feel like my choices are more deliberate and self aware these days. I'm less surprised by the consequences.

Learn2Live

Thanks Buffalo66--

Quote:

Why have I gone back to be used and hurt, and taken for a fool?

I have gotten to this "place" where I somehow have detached to where I don't see myself as any of those things anymore, as either used OR hurt BY someone else. I don't see myself as taken for a fool. That is THE OTHER PERSON'S "stuff." Do you know what I mean?

Like, when my old BF, who was 5 years clean, "cheated on me," at first, I flipped the F out. The ENTIRE contents of the ENTIRE kitchen made its way violently to the floor. I drank myself into oblivion, screamed, yelled, threw things, you name it. Sooner or later I got myself to Al-Anon and started working the steps and reading books, and going to therapy, and seeing a psychiatrist and soon enough I realized the he had done nothing TO ME. He did it to HIMSELF.

He sunk so low that, despite the fact that he was "in love with me," despite the fact that he had never been happier with any other woman, despite the fact that finally his little daughter would have a "normal" home to go to (away from her crack-addict mother and stepfather), despite the fact that he had asked me to marry him, given me a ring, and pronounced to all his friends and family that he was going to marry me, despite his oath to me both public and private, he went out and in a single act, destroyed EVERYTHING that we had, and destroyed his happy, safe, comfortable life for himself and his daughter. And that, my dear, THAT is between HIM and his Higher Power. Not between Him and Me.

I feel the same way about people who are married. When you marry, in this country, traditionally you marry under God. You make a vow, in church, to God, not to eachother, to obey God's laws that once you are married, you are joined as one and you do not bring or allow any other person into your marriage other than children. When a person breaks that vow, they are breaking their vow to their Higher Power. And if a person is not going to honor a vow to their Higher Power, then HOW in the hell are they going to honor a vow to YOU?

My attitude? If you want to act like a fool, if you want to show all your friends and family how unreliable and unhealthy you STILL are; if you want to spend your nights in bars, drink and drive, get plastered till you drool and urinate in your own pants, snort up till your so high that you can't even speak your own name, you go right ahead; it's YOUR life, not mine. But, if you want to be in MY life, or you want to share a life with me, I will not participate in those things, condone or support those things, nor will I allow you in my presence when you are intoxicated, high, or otherwise on substances or actively using substances. Take it or leave it. And now that I have experienced the PEACE and SERENITY my life brings, I will NOT allow anyone to take that away from me. If I make a conscious, thought-out decision to accomodate another person and allow them to take some of that peace and serenity away from me, it is for a VERY good reason, AND there are limits.

Anyway, it doesn't sound to me like you are in denial that people do bad things. I never heard that before and so I don't really know what your therapist is talking about, so I don't know what to share about that. You sound to me like you are aware of what is going on around you and what other people are doing. Have you ever read the book by Laura Schlessinger called, "How Could You do That?! The Abdication of Character, Courage, and Conscience"? Good read. It's where I started long ago when I first started examining and re-building my morals and values in Recovery.

Learn2Live

Thanks Tigger. I don't know if I know exactly what your friend meant about being a "romantic idealist" but I do know I used to be an idealist. I used to have a standard for pretty much everything that I came into contact with, from the way my socks had to be folded, to the way my house had to look, to what another person should or should not have said to me or to a friend, to the way things should operate at work. I could go on forever. I ALWAYS had an opinion about EVERYTHING and how everything SHOULD or HAD TO be.

Addressing that was early Recovery for me and the way I started was with the laundry. I had to train myself to not require the laundry to be folded perfectly each and every time. I would quick fold the things like shirts but if wrinkles didn't really matter on certain kinds of items, like socks, underwear, pjs, or sheets and towels, I'd just throw them in the right drawer and if I got to fold them later, fine, if not, well that was fine too. It took practice but it works and it helps set you on a path away from perfection and more toward PEACE and SERENITY.

Learn2Live

Thank you Bucyn for your response.

Quote:

I wonder if those 10 siblings of your grandmother's that she nursed through sicknesses appreciated it and were thankful and returned the favor best they could; or were they users and destructive to her?

I'm certain they must have been as grateful as they could have been, and I'm also certain they did not return the favor because they died. I don't think they were using her or trying to destroy her; they were on their deathbeds.

Learn2Live

Quote:

special, superior, and like the White Knight!

I've never felt any of these things. I did feel pride in myself when I graduated college with a master's degree. I think the only ways i have ever felt "superior" is when I have Judged other people, usually drug addicts or alcoholics. Or a new boyfriend's ex-girlfriend.

Quote:

I don't even know what is best for myself! How can I know what is best for them?

I have gotten to the point in my life where I finally KNOW what is best for me and I do not have to spend a whole lot of time thinking about it. For this, I am truly grateful to my Higher Power for giving me this clarity of mind.

transformyself

I think you're spectacular. The only problem I can see is an obsession with capitols and the bold feature..

gerryP

Bless your family's heart Live2learn...

Learn2Live

transformy

Hey girl! Been a long time!!! Hope you're doing well...

You are too funny. I think I ALLCAPS for emphasis and bold the vocabulary words. I think this is a habit I picked up in college or something (read WAY too many text books). It helps me organize my thoughts in my A.D.H.D. brain somehow. Sorry if it is offensive :O)

Learn2Live

Thank you GerryP.

transformyself

Girl it's not offensive, I LOVE it,

Just trying to give you some love and help you not take yourself so seriously...all though that's how we get better and better, right?