nodaybut2day

I'd like to trust XH. I'd love to believe his words. They sound soooo convincing. All the drama he created over picking up DD and seeing her unsupervised is now irrelevant: he just called and cancelled his visit. !!!

Obviously, I'm relieved, and obviously, I'd love to believe his statement that he a) REALLy wants me to see my stepson, and b) doesn't want me to feel uncomfortable with him taking DD on his own...but I just don't. I'm like some dog that's been beaten repeatedly who flinches when his master comes over to pet him. I'm frozen in place waiting to be kicked in the face again.

When he admits that he's tired and doesn't really want to take DD to a kindergym for his visit (he tried to have the visit at his place but to deny me entrance since he won't let me see my stepson, but was taken aback when I reminded him that I am still on the lease until January 1st 2010). To me, the fact that he's tired (i.e. lazy) and would rather go home "to relax" (i.e. have a beer) rings more true than anything else.

Is this wrong? Should I be the better person and trust that he truly wants me to feel at ease with unsupervised visitation?

*** HA! I just posted in another thread about avoiding the "feeling superior" dynamic and here I am doing it again!

aboutdone

NO.

For whatever reason their minds are constantly thinking of twists and turns and lies and manipulations. Even now that mine is sober, wanting unsupervised visits, when he lives with an alcoholic/user, who has men and parties at his house all hours of the night. And this lunatic thinks THAT is a good environment for him, not alone our baby girl. NOT.

My X RAH will spin a web of lies even I get tangled up in deciphering them sometimes. And usually, when it comes down to it, the thing that they are stressing is so important, really isn't. They will continually demand to see their kids, then be too drunk to meet up, or too tired, or always have something else to do, other than do what you were fighting about to begin with.

Thumper

Well trust is built on a history of trustworthy actions.

If there is a history of mis-trustworthy actions then mistrust is the only smart thing to respond with.

If you have a history of trustworthiness and yet mistrust - then you have something to look into.

Learn2Live

Please stop describing yourself in these ways. You are NOT a dog. You are NOT frozen. You are NOT waiting to be kicked in the face again. Please do this for yourself: Stop thinking of yourself this way. You are a WOMAN who has suffered through the sicknesses that surround addiction and alcoholism. STOP SECOND-GUESSING YOURSELF. Please.

No. BUT It's easier for me not to think in terms of right and wrong in this type of thing (not talking about moral right and wrong; talking about whose side is right and whose side is wrong). It is easier to examine this sort of thing in terms of which choice is the healthiest.

Are you comparing yourself to him? What do you mean by "better"? Is that what you want, to PROVE something to him or to yourself or to someone else? It's nothing to do with who or what is better.

You cannot force trust. It is either there, or it isn't. You already know your answer. Trust your instincts.

What difference does it make what he WANTS? What is important is YOU ARE THE MOTHER. Trust and follow your instincts-ALWAYS. You know what is best for your child without even having to think about it.

Good luck.

husbandofacoa

Why should you trust someone who has a proven track record of lying? This is part of our sickness that we let these people get into our heads and convince us of things that ARE NOT TRUE!

I AM SICK OF THEIR GAMES! I AM NOT GOING TO PLAY ANYMORE!

Thanks. I feel better.

Still Waters

You go husband!

I'm not playing anymore either, fun and games time is OVER.

PuzzledinTX

Amen! This thread helped me further realize I'm not alone. I have an update on my situation that I'll post in a separate thread.

tjp613

I could have bet $1,000 that this was gonna happen.

nodaybut2day

After a good night's sleep and thinking on this, I realize that I'll need to be constantly vigilant with this man because he'll always be trying to pull the wool over my eyes FOR HIS BENEFIT. Tidbits of the conversation came back to me as I woke up
"You have no choice but to work with me..."
"I can't let you see K because of what *you* have done..."
"You've made yourself my enemy by trying to take my daughter away..."

All this, said in the most logical and kind tone of voice. :wtf2

I guess I'm just all too willing to believe his "gestures of good faith" because he can be so nasty otherwise. This is a bit like being back in the relationship with him, when I'd spend my evenings and week-ends walking on eggshells, trying to assess whether or not he was happy and making sure I didn't "do anything wrong" so he could keep being happy. The only difference is that now he's using our daughter as a tool in his games.

Ugh, why is it so hard to see through him? He wears me down so much that when he throws me a bone, I immediately let my guard down, and then straight away, I feel guilty for being so gullible. I'm just not built for waging war on someone, and yet, I have no choice but to continue.

tjp613

When you get burned over and over and over again, you'll learn!... maybe.

nodaybut2day

ugh thanks...now I feel like I need to go back to my old screen name.

bookwyrm

I know what you mean - the knee jerk reactions that I used to have living with STBXAH are still lingering - no contact is helping me with that. I believed him and trusted him implicitly and it was really hard to not believe him during the separation. I feel that my marriage is a bad habit I need to break. I spent 18 years with him and picked up a lot of 'unhealthy' ways of thinking about myself, life and everything else. Quitting smoking was easier than quitting these bad habits - and I can't find a patch for them!

At least you're aware of his manipulation now. You're making progress! :ghug3

aboutdone

It has been my experience with my now R XAH, that they will focus on whatever it is they know gets under your skin and eats at you. While AH was drinking and previously living with the alcoholic/user friend over the summer, I filed for divorce. I gave him supervised visitation EVERYDAY from 9am-noon, at my home which was 6 blocks away from where he lived. He was to submit to a in home UA and alcohol swab, before I would allow him to stay for the visit. The first week after he was served the temp orders, he sent me email after email about how I was just a controlling manipulative person. Threatened he had an attorney. The following Monday he showed up, I handed him the UA and was HOT. However he finally did it, and then didn't show up again. He could see his daughter everyday for 3 hours a day, more generous than any other visitation plan the state gives, and he showed up ONCE.

We are now divorced, was working on things, and he is sober now. I went No contact with him yesterday, due to him crossing some boundaries. He emailed and text me a couple times yesterday, with the last email at 10:00pm last night, stating his attorney would be in touch with me after the holiday weekend in regards to his visitation with our 5.5month old baby. At the end of the email, he stated if I could find it in my heart to let him see her, to email him or text him my schedule. WTF?

He didn't bother to attend the final hearing for the divorce. I asked for sole custody, and was awarded that. The visitation was set as the parties agree, so there isn't any set visitation schedule. This was all done about 2 weeks ago.

So when I look at this email, I just cracked up. Normally I would have been upset, because he knows my greatest fear of him having our daughter at the place where he resides with the parties, and drinking that goes on there.

But...when I pulled back and deciphered the email, it was an empty threat, because he didn't talk to his attorney at night, because his attorney wouldn't be in touch with me, he would file a motion to set visitation, he didn't have money or the ambition to attend final hearing, so why 2 weeks later would he now? QUACKING.

And then the fact that he then asks me to give him a schedule to see her, makes it completely clear to me, that he has no attorney.

I have already contacted the supervised visitation center here, and I am in the process of setting up visitation for him through them.

Even though it is near impossible.....if you can act like what he is doing is great, it helps. If you can act like you don't care that you don't get to see step son, and in all actuality you are relieved you do not have to remain in contact with the stepson, then your X will bend over backwards to inconvenience you by wanting you to see him.

Unfortunately we have to play some games of our own at times, just to deal and get what is the best healthy outcome for our children.

Here is another example: While divorcing my first husband the narcissist, he was determined to get custody of our children. Even though I was a stay at home mom, and he spent most of his time working on the road. He did it just to tick me off, so during the temporary orders, which was 60 days before our divorce was final, he had 3 scheduled weekend visitations with the kids. SO, I called him the Monday before each weekend he was to have the kids, and left message that it was imperative that he picked up kids on Friday on time, because I had a flight to catch, going to Vegas for the weekend with friends. On Friday afternoon around 3pm he left message that he couldn't take kids for the weekend, because something came up, and too bad I couldn't go to Vegas.

So 2 weeks later I did it again, stating that I was trying to make up the trip, same thing happened. 2 weeks after that I did it again, and again he canceled. I walked into court proving that he skipped 3 weekends of visitations, why would he need full custody, and when the judge asked him why he skipped, he told the judge because he wasn't my babysitter for me to have a good time. LOL. The judge laughed, gave him a talk about it was none of his business what I did, and pointed out he had been played. The judge gave us joint custody and me residential.

Shame on me eh? But I did what was best for my kids. Hang in there.

Thumper

Don't be so hard on yourself. My AH can still send me into an emotional pit of doubt and confusion too. You can't help the feelings but you can choose how to react to them, which decisions you make, where you go from here.

It is a process. First you recognize the problem, see what is happening, work through it, make the good decisions, etc. You are doing that. This is you climbing out of that pit of doubt and confusion. Don't feel badly about that - feel empowered. You are climbing *up*. I hope eventually we do enough recovery work of our own to put a lid on the pit so we no longer fall into it at all.

nodaybut2day

Thank you for your responses Thumber, bookwyrm and aboutdone. It helps a lot to read your word aboutdone.

I think that I felt more confident when I assumed that XH didn't have representation (because I know he's broke). Now that he's pulled out this League of Father lawyer (whom both my lawyer and the family court judge I spoke to knew and groaned about), I feel uncertain. I'm truly afraid of a court battle with him, and if he does have a pro-bono lawyer from the Father's League of whatever, it will be ugly. I KNOW how dirty XH can play; he's not above inventing all sorts of things about me, or twisting around anything to get what he wants, even if it's not really what he wants! It's just to **** me off, as some of you have said, but he'll do it nonetheless. He's very good at becoming obsessed with something and not letting go for AGES.

Still Waters

noday - I'm dealing with the same. Totally made up accusations from my AH in the divorce papers no less. Thing is, he has to prove those things.

He can say anything he wants, but the judge is going to look at the facts. So get all the documentation you can.

My insane AH claims I stole the vehicle I fled in from him. The vehicle was purchased during the marriage...it's 50/50 according to state law. That doesn't stop him from telling anyone who will read an email that I stole it from him and this proves that I'm unstable.

aboutdone

Don't let yourself get ate up, with the what ifs. When in a divorce or custody battle with an not so nice person, you need to just take care of your side of the street. If you let yourself get worked up, and freak out, then you can't think clearly and rationally. You are too busy focusing energy on the negatives.

My best advice to you, is if you are not keeping a hand written log of all contact with him, concerning children, or while he is intoxicated, start doing that immediately. This actually carries alot of weight. It does have to be handwritten daily. When you are ready to go to court, you can give your lawyer the journal, you can come up with a solid reason for your request for custody, and visitation arrangements.

Make sure when you do this, that you only state the facts in this journal, as it can be subpoened. If you journal other things, never open that up to the courts. This one only has to be factual, not judgemental.

IE: 11/24/09 No contact from Mr. xxxx today in regards to our child XXXX.
11/25/09 Mr. xxx called requesting to pick up our child xxx on such and such. I agreed to this time, and returning at this time.
11/26/09 Mr. xxx called and canceld out on picking up our child. During conversation his voice was slurred.

ALWAYS REFER to your child as "OUR" child. Always insist that you want what is best for your daughter, and you want her to have a healthy relationship with her father, and for that to happen he needs to be "clean and sober" while around the child. You need to be able to provide examples of what makes it unsafe for your child to be around him, while he is intoxicated.

You need to express how important it is to you that your child has a relationship with him, "clean and sober".

Everything you do, needs to show you as a great mother, (which you are), and your desire to make sure you aren't alienating the parent.

Just like when I gave my XRAH visitation every morning, with the requested testing. I gave him an opportunity 7 days a week for 8 weeks to be the clean and sober Dad that our daughter needs in her life. What I also did, was make it appear that I wanted more than anything for him to have and maintain a relationship with our daughter.

I knew when I did that, I would win either way. Either he wouldn't be able to stay sober and come see her, and I would get my sole custody....or he would step up, and be a clean and sober Dad, which is best for my daughter, and he would have been able to get joint custody, which still would have made me happy, because I really just want what is best for my daughter.

Buffalo66

I think you should definitely mistrust his motivations.

Mine does it, only he barely even tries to cloak it in lies anymore...he just says, "I want to have my free time be mine, and I dont feel like being responsible today..." Then he will say something like, "besides, I dont have anywhere fun to take him..."

translation: "I want to drink today, I dont want to drive drunk. I dont want to alter my drinking plans to accommodate my four year old."

The other day, he went so far as to admit that he was being selfish. He was being honest, but that does not change the fact that my day went to h*ll, or that our son was disappointed. `

I think it is wise to assume the lesser. Is it you being judgemental? I think it is you seeing the truth.

nodaybut2day

Thanks again for your advice re the handwritten log aboutdone. I had been keeping a log but on the computer. I guess I need to redo it all by hand now.

Another thing...I'm feeling like my issues are less and less relevant to this board because I've separated from XH. The alcohol seems to be fading into the background and custody/manipulation seems to be coming to the forefront. Should I still keep posting on this board?

tjp613

I'm sorry, Noday!!! I should have phrased that differently! I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. What I SHOULD have said is, "I've been burned more times than I can count by my ex-husband!! He can be so sweet and funny and bat his eyelashes at me and I just want to believe that I can trust him and be on mature, amicable terms with him....then right when I need his cooperation on something.... **BAM!!!**....he reminds me that he will never EVER change and he totally cannot be trusted."

I am the one that is STILL learning!! Just hoping you can learn a little faster than me!!

Again, I apologize for being insensitive to the way I phrased my response.

(((Hugs)))