Growing pains
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Growing pains
My husband isn't working any kind of program and it shows. I've invited him several times to join me or go alone to my therapist but he stubbornly refuses. He doesn't have any problems, everyone else does. He listens when I share something I've learned, those light bulb moments. Mostly because I keep it short and sweet. But without doing any work, there's not a whole lot of retention.
Last night he was badgering our daughter to the point she was in tears. She was so upset she wasn't paying attention going down the stairs and slipped. She was alright but it was like salt on the wound.
It was all passive/aggressive speech on his part. She was trying very hard not to cross the line and go into combat mode, and he wouldn't stop when asked by both of us. I finally pinched his upper arm and that at least redirected his focus.
After a few minutes she came and spoke to him, telling him how she felt. It was absolutely heartbreaking. She was very clear in stating how certain actions/words of his made her feel without berating him. He kept trying to interrupt and invalidate her feelings, but I kept saying please let her finish. She was fighting really hard to maintain her composure. He finally shut up, then apologized, and I'm really hoping he retains this learning experience.
It's obvious that he has some issues with her, always has even before addiction, but won't make the effort to resolve them, where she is and always has been willing. Our daughter - her very existence - challenges every single character defect in him.
I'm almost at a loss how to help either one of them and am running out of tricks to pull out of my hat.
Last night he was badgering our daughter to the point she was in tears. She was so upset she wasn't paying attention going down the stairs and slipped. She was alright but it was like salt on the wound.
It was all passive/aggressive speech on his part. She was trying very hard not to cross the line and go into combat mode, and he wouldn't stop when asked by both of us. I finally pinched his upper arm and that at least redirected his focus.
After a few minutes she came and spoke to him, telling him how she felt. It was absolutely heartbreaking. She was very clear in stating how certain actions/words of his made her feel without berating him. He kept trying to interrupt and invalidate her feelings, but I kept saying please let her finish. She was fighting really hard to maintain her composure. He finally shut up, then apologized, and I'm really hoping he retains this learning experience.
It's obvious that he has some issues with her, always has even before addiction, but won't make the effort to resolve them, where she is and always has been willing. Our daughter - her very existence - challenges every single character defect in him.
I'm almost at a loss how to help either one of them and am running out of tricks to pull out of my hat.
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((Chino)) - I face the same thing with my dad. He has gotten better with ME, but he is horrible with Brit, and when I step in, he attacks me as well.
He and my mom actually went to al-anon years, and years ago (well, she's been dead since 1991) and he enjoyed it, but states he "doesn't have time" for a meeting. I've given him websites of online meetings. I send him "Ralph Marston" daily motivational readings I think apply. I keep my boundaries as best I can.
He's told me, time and time again that he will "check into" anger management or counseling, he will go to a meeting, but this has been going on for years and he has done nothing. He SEEMS to finally be trying to listen to what I say, and trying to follow my lead (like leaving when Brit starts yelling, rather than engage in an argument) but he's usually as bad as she is.
I don't meant this to be all about me and my problems...I just want you to know that I've tried everything I know, too, and I'm worn out. Your situation hurts my heart, because your daughter is trying so hard. With Brit, I have an unruly 16-year-old, but then she GOT that way because my dad and stepmom raised her that way
I like the pinch on the arm! I wish I had some advice, I really do. I usually wait until things have calmed down, a bit or something is said and sneak in a comment at a time when dad is more receptive - I do the same with Brit. I've seen SOME improvement but we still have a ways to go.
Sending you some HUGE hugs, because I know how hard it is to be in your position. I've told dad I love him, but there are times I just want to smack him upside the head!!
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
He and my mom actually went to al-anon years, and years ago (well, she's been dead since 1991) and he enjoyed it, but states he "doesn't have time" for a meeting. I've given him websites of online meetings. I send him "Ralph Marston" daily motivational readings I think apply. I keep my boundaries as best I can.
He's told me, time and time again that he will "check into" anger management or counseling, he will go to a meeting, but this has been going on for years and he has done nothing. He SEEMS to finally be trying to listen to what I say, and trying to follow my lead (like leaving when Brit starts yelling, rather than engage in an argument) but he's usually as bad as she is.
I don't meant this to be all about me and my problems...I just want you to know that I've tried everything I know, too, and I'm worn out. Your situation hurts my heart, because your daughter is trying so hard. With Brit, I have an unruly 16-year-old, but then she GOT that way because my dad and stepmom raised her that way
I like the pinch on the arm! I wish I had some advice, I really do. I usually wait until things have calmed down, a bit or something is said and sneak in a comment at a time when dad is more receptive - I do the same with Brit. I've seen SOME improvement but we still have a ways to go.
Sending you some HUGE hugs, because I know how hard it is to be in your position. I've told dad I love him, but there are times I just want to smack him upside the head!!
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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Chino....I always knew that my husband was critical of any of my step children or our two children after they turned 5yo. I now know that he has been an addict longer than I actually thought. They often are resentful to the children because they feel as though they are getting money that they can be using for addiction. My husband had a lot of resentment towards his oldest daughter who we had custody of at the time. He would say mean things and I never knew why until his addiction was revealed.
It is easy to pick at an innocent child but, they know that we are not going to put up with it. The child just usually takes it and balls up without a fight. Chino protect her the best way you know how and try to put demands on him when it comes to speaking to her appropriately. They will remember these things when they get older.
Hugs
It is easy to pick at an innocent child but, they know that we are not going to put up with it. The child just usually takes it and balls up without a fight. Chino protect her the best way you know how and try to put demands on him when it comes to speaking to her appropriately. They will remember these things when they get older.
Hugs
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Thank you for sharing, Amy. I used to wonder why couples would divorce after something traumatic happened, and now I'm starting to understand why. Each person grows from the experience but not all in positive, productive ways. That isn't something I'm considering though, and I'm not in 'saving my marriage' mode either. I'm all about maintaining my serenity and supporting others efforts in that area.
I think if something like this happens again, I'm going to take my daughter and leave the house. She hasn't been feeling well at all because of her hepatitis and had to visit the ER Saturday for an IV and anti-nausea meds.
In the few minutes we had alone before my daughter spoke with him, I asked him if he would treat his mother that way, and if she were sick, too? I reminded him that genuine respect for others is across the board, not conditional, and I had to learn that the hard way, too.
That pinch? Oh I wanted to smack him, the impulse was definitely there. But I shook it off really fast and pinched him instead. I knew better than to add my voice into the mix, it would've just raised emotions and the noise level. A pinch was the only distraction I could come up with at that moment.
Unhappy, thank for sharing, too. The (recovering) addict is our 21 year old daughter, the one I'm talking about. God willing, she'll reach 22 this Friday. My husband doesn't pick at others very often but for whatever reason last night, she was his target. He doesn't understand her, never has, and neither did I until addiction forced the issue. She is completely unlike the rest of us. Now I think of her as being unique
It's easy for me to recognize that she challenges his character defects because she does with all of us, including her 24 year old brother. He just has more self control.
I think I'm going to ask my husband if he wants to understand her. That should open a door. Hopefully a door towards enlightenment.
I think if something like this happens again, I'm going to take my daughter and leave the house. She hasn't been feeling well at all because of her hepatitis and had to visit the ER Saturday for an IV and anti-nausea meds.
In the few minutes we had alone before my daughter spoke with him, I asked him if he would treat his mother that way, and if she were sick, too? I reminded him that genuine respect for others is across the board, not conditional, and I had to learn that the hard way, too.
That pinch? Oh I wanted to smack him, the impulse was definitely there. But I shook it off really fast and pinched him instead. I knew better than to add my voice into the mix, it would've just raised emotions and the noise level. A pinch was the only distraction I could come up with at that moment.
Unhappy, thank for sharing, too. The (recovering) addict is our 21 year old daughter, the one I'm talking about. God willing, she'll reach 22 this Friday. My husband doesn't pick at others very often but for whatever reason last night, she was his target. He doesn't understand her, never has, and neither did I until addiction forced the issue. She is completely unlike the rest of us. Now I think of her as being unique
It's easy for me to recognize that she challenges his character defects because she does with all of us, including her 24 year old brother. He just has more self control.
I think I'm going to ask my husband if he wants to understand her. That should open a door. Hopefully a door towards enlightenment.
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My heart goes out to you Chino, and I think you are handling it well.
To bully a child (and that's what it is) teaches a child to bully, robs them of self-esteem and is hurtful, mean and childish behaviour for an adult.
Your daughter handled this well too, and I'm glad you stepped in to let her finish what she had to say. That's teaching everyone about "healthy communication".
Big Hugs
To bully a child (and that's what it is) teaches a child to bully, robs them of self-esteem and is hurtful, mean and childish behaviour for an adult.
Your daughter handled this well too, and I'm glad you stepped in to let her finish what she had to say. That's teaching everyone about "healthy communication".
Big Hugs
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(((Chino)))) - the last time we had a blowup (and that's about what it is), I was trying to drag Brit out of the house as my instinct was the same as yours - just get away. I told her that in the future, I would just say "get in my car" and she was to head for my car.
I'd rather not even BE in the middle but I agree with Ann...bullying a child (and I don't care WHAT the age of the child) is wrong. However, I also agree that my dad shouldn't have to tolerate being spoken to in the way Brit cusses he and stepmom out and it's a little late to undo what they've allowed.
Getting distance between them seems to work the best. It allows for everyone to regroup and calm down...including me.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
I'd rather not even BE in the middle but I agree with Ann...bullying a child (and I don't care WHAT the age of the child) is wrong. However, I also agree that my dad shouldn't have to tolerate being spoken to in the way Brit cusses he and stepmom out and it's a little late to undo what they've allowed.
Getting distance between them seems to work the best. It allows for everyone to regroup and calm down...including me.
Hugs and prayers!
Amy
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Hey Chino, I can relate to your post, as for some reason we were all cranky at my house tonight, me, my husband, and our daughter (age 23) who is in recovery. My daughter now has the most sense out of the three of us, having put many years into meetings and step work. My husband and I were bickering (I wasn't feeling well, and that seems the be when I get defensive). She didn't get involved, and quickly removed herself to go to her nightly meeting.
Your daughter will get much strength as she continues with a program. For me, when the crap hits the fan, it usually means I am not focusing on myself, and need to get to my own meeting. My husband, who also doesn't do a program will have to figure things out for himself. It sounds like you are heading in the right direction. JG
Your daughter will get much strength as she continues with a program. For me, when the crap hits the fan, it usually means I am not focusing on myself, and need to get to my own meeting. My husband, who also doesn't do a program will have to figure things out for himself. It sounds like you are heading in the right direction. JG
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Hey Chino, I don't know the age of your daughter...... but it's a really hard position to be in.
My father was the bully in my house when growing up, a functioning alcoholic.... my mom the co-dependant wife. I would express how I felt to my father, and he was short, rude, cold to me. Not only did I become bitter and angry at my father for his ways.....(no abuse or anything like that), but in general his grumpy-tired self, but I was very angry at my mom.
The reason I became angry at my mother, was I saw the energy it robbed from her. She did EVERYTHING, for EVERYONE. I saw her 'act' fine, at the dinner table, when in fact I KNEW she was stewing about the fact that he had a couple beers after work. When I would express how I FELT about their relationship/him, she would patronize me by saying, "this is my problem, your father loves us and works hard, if he has some beer and it makes me upset, that is about ME not YOU."
BUT in reality, it was about ME. I saw her take us on vacations alone, because my dad was absent.....I saw HER at my sporting events, because he worked, went out with the guys, and went home.... I saw HER cooking/cleaning/wrapping presents on holidays, while he was sleeping. I became really resentful THAT SHE MADE EXCUSES FOR HIM.
It makes me sad, that to this day, she excuses his ways. (he's still a mild drinker). He is still grumpy, and helpless w/out HER. I looked at her when I had them over for dinner recently, and she told him, "just shut up, I'm talking, what do you know..... I raised these kids on my own"......
And she is still there.......... makeing excuses, saying "he loves us the only way he knows how".
Its frusterating as hell, (and apparently causes me to have a lot of emotions towards BOTH of them).
SO, not that I'm telling you MY screwed up fam's problems, I'm just saying BE VERY CAREFUL, about trying to HELP either your husband or your daughter in thses situations...........your daughter might very well wind up angry with you, because she dosen't want help from you, she wants her father to 'man up' and love the little girl inside of her, without any HELP, from anyone.
Does that make sense?
Love,
Cess
My father was the bully in my house when growing up, a functioning alcoholic.... my mom the co-dependant wife. I would express how I felt to my father, and he was short, rude, cold to me. Not only did I become bitter and angry at my father for his ways.....(no abuse or anything like that), but in general his grumpy-tired self, but I was very angry at my mom.
The reason I became angry at my mother, was I saw the energy it robbed from her. She did EVERYTHING, for EVERYONE. I saw her 'act' fine, at the dinner table, when in fact I KNEW she was stewing about the fact that he had a couple beers after work. When I would express how I FELT about their relationship/him, she would patronize me by saying, "this is my problem, your father loves us and works hard, if he has some beer and it makes me upset, that is about ME not YOU."
BUT in reality, it was about ME. I saw her take us on vacations alone, because my dad was absent.....I saw HER at my sporting events, because he worked, went out with the guys, and went home.... I saw HER cooking/cleaning/wrapping presents on holidays, while he was sleeping. I became really resentful THAT SHE MADE EXCUSES FOR HIM.
It makes me sad, that to this day, she excuses his ways. (he's still a mild drinker). He is still grumpy, and helpless w/out HER. I looked at her when I had them over for dinner recently, and she told him, "just shut up, I'm talking, what do you know..... I raised these kids on my own"......
And she is still there.......... makeing excuses, saying "he loves us the only way he knows how".
Its frusterating as hell, (and apparently causes me to have a lot of emotions towards BOTH of them).
SO, not that I'm telling you MY screwed up fam's problems, I'm just saying BE VERY CAREFUL, about trying to HELP either your husband or your daughter in thses situations...........your daughter might very well wind up angry with you, because she dosen't want help from you, she wants her father to 'man up' and love the little girl inside of her, without any HELP, from anyone.
Does that make sense?
Love,
Cess
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Wanted to add.......... I know that your daughter is the ra in your life, but regardless, the dynamics of addiction run through.... perhaps your daughter just wants to be loved and understood by her daddy..... she turned out to be an addict, apparently I turned out to be a codie.
luck of the draw.
And yes, takeing her and leaving, will help with her not being bitter in the future with you. jmo.
Love,
Cess
luck of the draw.
And yes, takeing her and leaving, will help with her not being bitter in the future with you. jmo.
Love,
Cess
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cessy, I posted that my daughter is 21. When she and her dad want and need my guidance, I do my very best to share what I've learned in actions and words, while keeping myself centered. Yes, she wants to be understood and the only thing I can do about it is offer my ES&H to either of them when they want/need it.
My daughter knows and accepts that it's the truth, but it doesn't keep her from wishing he'd learn better ways. I hope he does too. You know how we say "we teach people how to treat us"? Well, she's teaching him how to treat her and God bless her, she hasn't given up. If she ever does give up, he'll have no choice but to also accept that "she loves him the only way she can." It goes both ways and they both know it.
A very liberating part of my recovery is not worrying more about others reactions, like bitterness, than focusing on my own actions. I focus on being genuine and true to myself, my own value system, and let the chips fall where they may. I'm going to PO someone somewhere and I can't help that without compromising myself. I won't do it any more.
These growing pains are unavoidable but suffering is optional. All I can do is pray my husband and daughter continue to work through it. I have a lot of hope because they made it through this round and came away with better understanding than they had before. One day at a time and always with a back up plan
"he loves us the only way he knows how".
A very liberating part of my recovery is not worrying more about others reactions, like bitterness, than focusing on my own actions. I focus on being genuine and true to myself, my own value system, and let the chips fall where they may. I'm going to PO someone somewhere and I can't help that without compromising myself. I won't do it any more.
These growing pains are unavoidable but suffering is optional. All I can do is pray my husband and daughter continue to work through it. I have a lot of hope because they made it through this round and came away with better understanding than they had before. One day at a time and always with a back up plan
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Originally Posted by Chino 
These growing pains are unavoidable but suffering is optional. All I can do is pray my husband and daughter continue to work through it. I have a lot of hope because they made it through this round and came away with better understanding than they had before. One day at a time and always with a back up plan
Very true chino, but it's ok to 'feel'... don't you think? I had a therapist tell me once, that the more we don't aknowledge how we 'feel' the worse it gets. He explained that when we are sad.... we SHOULD cry, when we are mad, we SHOULD slam a door, vent.... etc. He explained that it is a primal need, that as adults we try to stuff away and down. Babies don't have stress issues, because they let it out. If they are cold, they wail, if they are hungry, they cry... if they need to be held, they calm when you hold them..... they let you know what they feel. The same holds true in early ages-- say 2-4, when they hurt, they kick and scream.
Although we have to 'mature' and know when/and how/ to APPROPRIATLEY express ourselves.... we still need to 'feel' and get it out.
Hopefully writing here, is one way you get it out.
I know that I've got my messed up stuff over here...... but I do know these things I tell you to be true.
I hope in some way, the littlest things I've learned, (from very loving, healthy people in my life), can help you, and others here.
Love,
Cess ((hugs))
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Cessy said:
Very true chino, but it's ok to 'feel'... don't you think? I had a therapist tell me once, that the more we don't aknowledge how we 'feel' the worse it gets. He explained that when we are sad.... we SHOULD cry, when we are mad, we SHOULD slam a door, vent.... etc. He explained that it is a primal need, that as adults we try to stuff away and down. Babies don't have stress issues, because they let it out. If they are cold, they wail, if they are hungry, they cry... if they need to be held, they calm when you hold them..... they let you know what they feel. The same holds true in early ages-- say 2-4, when they hurt, they kick and scream.
This is one of the bigggest differences between hubby and I. I have always been the type of person to express my anger, sadness... the same way I expressed my happiness. When I first met hubby I thought it might be good for his control of his emotions to balance out my over emotional way of dealing with everything. After almost 10 years instead of it being some kind of balance the only thing I have learned from him is to try to tamp down my emotions and reactions because when I slam a door or raise my voice he makes me feel like I embarrass him.
Sorry, didnt mean to hijack someones thread but when I read what you wrote I just had to put it into words
Very true chino, but it's ok to 'feel'... don't you think? I had a therapist tell me once, that the more we don't aknowledge how we 'feel' the worse it gets. He explained that when we are sad.... we SHOULD cry, when we are mad, we SHOULD slam a door, vent.... etc. He explained that it is a primal need, that as adults we try to stuff away and down. Babies don't have stress issues, because they let it out. If they are cold, they wail, if they are hungry, they cry... if they need to be held, they calm when you hold them..... they let you know what they feel. The same holds true in early ages-- say 2-4, when they hurt, they kick and scream.
This is one of the bigggest differences between hubby and I. I have always been the type of person to express my anger, sadness... the same way I expressed my happiness. When I first met hubby I thought it might be good for his control of his emotions to balance out my over emotional way of dealing with everything. After almost 10 years instead of it being some kind of balance the only thing I have learned from him is to try to tamp down my emotions and reactions because when I slam a door or raise my voice he makes me feel like I embarrass him.
Sorry, didnt mean to hijack someones thread but when I read what you wrote I just had to put it into words
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Originally Posted by cessy68
Very true chino, but it's ok to 'feel'... don't you think?
Suspicious, it isn't a hijack. There's ES&H in this topic and I hope anyone reading it gets something out of it. I have
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sorry it took so long for me to add my 2cent, i wanted to read a few other responses because i found myself in the same position only it was OUR son and sometimes daughter. my son's anger turned into rage ending in a fight with his dad. my ah is the addict and he don't seem to think that others have any feelings. i stepped in over the yrs as best i could but each time it got worse between the two, not the fights but what i feel now was emotional. he grew to detest his dad's behavior toward al of us.
i think it was wrong for my son to react the way he did but i think it was also wrong for my ah(dad) to attack him and i could not allow this in our home. i think my son had gotten to his enough point and so did i. he was a minor at the time. my ah couldn't see that his actions were to me abusive and didn't see a need to change.
i chose to protect my kids so he chose to leave and that was ok, just what we needed. i pray you and yours will soon be able to work through all of this. sorry that you have to be in the middle of all of this but you are mama, and thats what mama's do. still praying for you and yours.
i think it was wrong for my son to react the way he did but i think it was also wrong for my ah(dad) to attack him and i could not allow this in our home. i think my son had gotten to his enough point and so did i. he was a minor at the time. my ah couldn't see that his actions were to me abusive and didn't see a need to change.
i chose to protect my kids so he chose to leave and that was ok, just what we needed. i pray you and yours will soon be able to work through all of this. sorry that you have to be in the middle of all of this but you are mama, and thats what mama's do. still praying for you and yours.
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Thank you for sharing, teke. I started this topic needing a release and have come away even more determined to continue what I'm doing. I never considered giving up but if it's possible to put an extra steel rod in my spine, I'm doing it.
If anyone in our home has ever been a stuffer, it's my husband. My therapist, going only on what I share with him, has pointed out the obvious: it appears my husband is very uncomfortable with his emotions and doesn't know how to express what he wants. I have a very close relationship with my in-laws and a few of them are ranters, especially when they are powerless over something.
I can't be sure but I think my husband is finally starting his descent towards bottom. His behavior reminds me of our daughter's when she started that journey. The morning following this episode, she said the two of them are alike in a lot of ways, and not all good.
I have an appt with my therapist this evening and I'm sure you all can guess what the main topic will be!
If anyone in our home has ever been a stuffer, it's my husband. My therapist, going only on what I share with him, has pointed out the obvious: it appears my husband is very uncomfortable with his emotions and doesn't know how to express what he wants. I have a very close relationship with my in-laws and a few of them are ranters, especially when they are powerless over something.
I can't be sure but I think my husband is finally starting his descent towards bottom. His behavior reminds me of our daughter's when she started that journey. The morning following this episode, she said the two of them are alike in a lot of ways, and not all good.
I have an appt with my therapist this evening and I'm sure you all can guess what the main topic will be!
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