talking

Old 11-09-2009, 03:57 AM
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Question talking

Will try to post with one word since the last submittal didn't work.

I understand the didn't cause it, can't control it or cure it...

and the denial on their part can be so strong..

I was just wondering if you still try to talk them into seeing that they have a problem or perhaps true detachment is going your way and letting them go theirs.

I read an article last night where they asked a group in recovery if anyone had said anything to help them get to that point ... in an attempt to figure out what it is alcoholics need to hear....and the answer was no.

Do you still talk with your alcoholic about their alcoholism? Does it seem to help?
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Old 11-09-2009, 04:23 AM
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Only a few short comments on that subject if and when ABF brings it up himself, otherwise I keep my thoughts to myself or on this site.

Just now I have gut feeling that he is getting toey, that a breakout could easily be ahead. I am trying to decide whether to ask if cravings or a trigger are causing concern, or just keep my mouth shut and hope it is just indigestion on my part. He said last time he was sobering up, for me to let him know if I was worried and he would tell me honestly if he was having a problem, but things change later when completely sober, so I am a bit wary of rocking the boat.

If he does hit the drink, from past experience it could be a rough ride, and staying detached would be hard as we live in the same complex, but being prepared is some help.

God bless
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by whereisthisgoin View Post

Do you still talk with your alcoholic about their alcoholism? Does it seem to help?

Do you want another adult (not a professionally licensed therapist or job supervisor) talking to you about YOUR problem? A problem that you are not willing to admit exists?

I tried talking to my AH about his drinking. He would come back with the standard: I was drinking when I met you. I'm not as bad as _________. I don't cheat. I have a steady income, etc....

I realized later after learning more about the codie/alkie relationship (dance) that he was quacking and I was nagging. We were not communicating.

I did try to communicate some of my boundaries. Not a whole laundry list, but one at a time, and only if he was sober and in a calm mood. I didn't want to sleep with my AH when he was smashed. He had sleep apnea and would start/stop snoring and sound like he was struggling for air throughout the night. Even with ear plugs in my ears it was too loud.

So one morning when he was remorseful and filled with self pity for sleeping alone, I told him that he makes too much noise when he sleeps after having more than a few beers. I don't get a good nights sleep when he is so loud. I stated my boundary(in hind sight I see that I added justification) and that was that.

He didn't offer to stop drinking and he didn't offer to sleep on the couch. I continued to use the air mattress as needed. It was later in the progression of addiction, that I suggested he put his drunk self on the air mattress.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:50 AM
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If you're anything like me, you've talked to him about it ad nauseum. I tried reasoning, crying, begging, yelling, manipulation, threats, videotaping him drunk and showing it to him, talking to his friends, relatives..........well, you get the idea.

The last conversation we had about it went something like this:

HIM: I'm not letting you or anyone else control me!

ME: You're right, you're a big boy, you do whatever you want. I'll decide what I need to do.

HIM: *mouth open, silence*

L
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:37 PM
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Ya don't pull on Superman's cape,

Ya don't spit into the wind,

Ya don't pull the mask off the old lone ranger,

....and ya don't talk to non-recovering A's about their addiction/alcoholism!!!!

freya

(adapted from Jim Croce)
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:47 PM
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I was just wondering if you still try to talk them into seeing that they have a problem or perhaps true detachment is going your way and letting them go theirs.
No. I do not try to talk them into anything. If they can't see, they can't see, and I'm no miracle worker. You can't turn a blind man into a seeing man... Not trying to force your opinion on someone else is a sign of detachment but detachment does not necessarily mean physical detachment. You can detach from a person but still live in the same house. Detaching while keeping them in your life is harder than if you don't associate with the alcoholic, but it can be done....

Do you still talk with your alcoholic about their alcoholism? Does it seem to help?
Does it seem to help what? Or whom? Does it help me to talk to an alcoholic about their own alcoholism? No. Can it help an alcoholic if someone talks to them about their alcoholism? Yes. It's not likely to do much to get the alcoholic to change, but it can help them if they want to be helped.
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Old 11-09-2009, 04:06 PM
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I haven't bothered talking to him about his drinking. Once was enough - he knows what I think and he doesn't agree, surprise surprise! Now he's my ex, so it's really not my business anyway. I think that the last person to be able to make them see the light is their significant other. I've often hoped that one of his friends would say something but it hasn't happened as far as I know. Shame because he might feel less pressure from a friend.
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Old 11-09-2009, 04:14 PM
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I decided Sunday to quit talking to him about his problems. He just avoided/denied/manipulated the conversation. Then I got mad, and we ended up in the same place we always have.

It's been very quiet in my life since. We have nothing left to talk about, besides the kids.
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:06 PM
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I guess you could say I did this. I forced him to drive to his parents, and tell them the whole story of why he was living with them.

Then I told all of them that unless he got serious help for his problems - not just ordering a few books and going to yet another counseling appt - I was leaving him. And I was taking the kids, and he would not be able to see them while he was still actively drinking.

His parents and I agreed that counseling had not worked in the past. We all suggested treatment. So it was a very unplanned intervention, but still an intervention none the less. Did it work? THAT remains to be seen. He says he willingly left, although it was not his own idea.

What did happen was he left to get help, and it helped me to sort out my life and my part in this relationship. His parents finally saw that I am not the winch he painted me to be. My family saw him for who he really was, behind closed doors.

So to make a long story short, whether or not treatment works for him - it worked for me. I have changed my life 100% and can't wait to see what the future holds for me.
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:07 PM
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Maybe I should explain that I had kicked him out a week before this happened, and he told his parents he had a little too much to drink over the weekend. He said that someone I worked with told me some lies about what happened, and I was mad at him.
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Lavash View Post
This brings me to something I always wondered about, when a family/loved ones have an intervention for someone, is that not pushing the healing on the addict?
In my opinion, yes.
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by intheknow View Post
Maybe I should explain that I had kicked him out a week before this happened, and he told his parents he had a little too much to drink over the weekend. He said that someone I worked with told me some lies about what happened, and I was mad at him.
I would like to know more about your story - do you have a link to a post that would help me? I admire your approach.
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:15 PM
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Lavash, I think that you pegged some of it, interventions can involve codependence. Sometimes an intervention is what helps an addict hit bottom, but unless that is the case, forced "recovery" isn't going to work. Addicts don't get well until they need to get well and other people can't tell them when to need it.

Its an interesting discussion point, to be sure.
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:16 PM
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Lavash,
We are not "letting" them rot. If we had that kind of power, we wouldn't "let" them drink!
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:23 PM
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I will do some digging and see if I can find the major part of the story. I posted previously under another name. When I registered on this site I was dumb enough to use a username and password that he and I used on alot of other accounts...duh! Then he came back from rehab and kept using my laptop while I was at work. Decided it was time to change my name.

The words I used went something like this...

"I refuse to get in the same car, and drive down the same road with you, thinking I will end up in a different place. I have been down that road so many times before, and I deserve better. If you are not willing to try to make it better, I will do it on my own. It's your choice."

I was also very clear that if he entered and completed rehab, I made no guarantees about the future of our relationship. I have not told him that I love him or I miss him since he left for treatment, and probably way before he left. I just stopped saying the words - because I wasn't sure I meant it. I try to keep physical contact to a minimum - have not kissed him since before this all happened. I want to be sure I mean these things before I do anything to make him think there is a glimmer of hope to this relationship.

We have been separated since mid-September. He comes to my house to see the kids, and eat dinner with them when he is not working. He also comes over here to check the computer to see when he is going to work (although he has a computer at home) - my therapist pointed out that he is still manipulating the situation so he can still come to the house everyday...she is right.

So last week I told him I didn't want to see him for a few days and sent our son to stay with him at his house. He showed up friday nite, wanting to take me to dinner because he missed me. I told him he hasn't given me the chance to miss him yet, he is here all the time anyway.

He got the hint.
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