FindingPeace1

don't you hate it when you pour your heart out and your post doesn't post?

Anyway,
I have been avoiding y'all for fear of...judgment, I guess. I think a part of me feels if I was self respecting I would not stand for one lie...but I will. A good friend says I am afraid of my OWN self judgment and am putting it off on you.

Hubby came back mid Sat. He is immovable. Me too. (We are stubborn people, for sure). We went back to life.

He is in a zombie/lifeless state of depression now. Same friend says its a tactic to avoid dealing with alcohol abuse, but who knows. He is depressed. Who wouldn't be after I called him out like that? Makes sense. His row is not one I want to hoe.

Most of what he says is depressed/sarcastic. So we just moved, he got his first paycheck. It will barely pay the bills. He is thoroughly miserable about that. He thought we could swing it. He says, "Okay, well...I could get rid of my cell phone...I have no friends anyway, right?" (It really burned him when I said that having no friends was not a normal thing.) When I comforted him he said, "Don't pity me. Sorry I shared my feelings. I will try to keep them to myself next time." Twisted, passive aggressive logic. He straight up says he is trying to be the person he thinks I want him to be. I think that is totally unhealthy, but its not my job to police his health...

He says he will stop drinking because that is what I want. I told him what I want is honesty. If he drinks, be open about it. He said there is NO WAY he would drink in front of me while I sit in judgment of him, assessing everything. He says it is NONE OF MY BUSINESS whether he has friends or not or what he decides to do or how healthy he is or isn't. I thought it was. I thought that was caring. Maybe not...

I went to my first Alanon meeting yesterday. It was an hour and a half drive. Bad news? No one showed (can you believe it?) Good news? It was at a library, so I started reading Codep. No More. Good stuff! I went to lunch and then to a bookstore and bought the book (as well as the Lang of Letting Go).
Striking ideas so far:
* You are not responsible for making other people "see the light" or "set them straight". It is your job to set you straight and see your own light.
* It doesn't matter if it IS a problem. It doesn't matter if it WILL get worse. It doesn't matter if he IS hurting himself. It doesn't matter if he DOES need help. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
* No amount of control will effect a permanent or desirable change in another.
* He is not a victim. People resent being told they are incompetent, which is what you are saying if you are rescuing. Caretaking looks friendlier than it is. Do you feel benevolent or concerned or sorry? Good chance you are rescuing. Refuse to rescue.

I grew up with the Queen of Codies. No joke. I learned to care is good/healthy/right/benevolent. Ugh. I think I have my care/love all mixed up with codependency.
He said I wouldn't allow him to be human. Maybe he's right. Even self abuse is human. Depression is human. He gets to be himself.

I am going to look for a therapist. I have to travel to another state and stay with friends to make some money. At least I can freelance and thus do working vacations. I am thinking I will go for a week once a month and save up. It will help with finances and pay for therapy. I said I wanted him to go to a therapist, but maybe that was wrong headed. It certainly can't hurt for me to!

I have been calling the organizer for that alanon, but she doesn't answer. The next closest group is over two hours away. (yikes)

I will hold off on kids till I can figure myself out a bit.

My lifeless-zombie hubby says, "sorry you think I am so f***ed up you have to go to therapy."

He is not my job/project/responsibility. He is not a victim. I trust in the universe that he will be okay. I am working on focusing on me today. (HARD WORK!)

Hugs

FindingPeace1

Another thing from the book - she says codies don't ask for what they need. I'm so so at it. I think if what I want conflicts with what I think he wants I feel confused (because I am a pleaser).
But I think I chose him, in part, because since he doesn't ask for anything, or point out any faults (recent convo excluded), I am safe to deal or not deal with my stuff on my time.
I have dated people who pointed out my stuff and it REALLY shut me down. So I found a way to not have my buttons pushed.
HMM!
It's good to see your own garbage!

Bernadette

He is not my job/project/responsibility. He is not a victim. I trust in the universe that he will be okay. I am working on focusing on me today.

Bravo!!!

(HARD WORK!)

But soooooooooooo worth it!

Seems like you got a lot out of a no-show AlAnon meeting! So many times in my life I have been grateful for and amazed by the power of the library!!

peace-
b

NYC_Chick

Hugs. I'm sorry you are going through is.

My xabf did the same things. Just replace your husbands name with my xabf's name. He will go back to normal once he thinks you have forgotten about all of it. My friends husband did the same thing too before she left. It's textbook manipulation and not your fault at all.

As far as us judging, you have to do what is best for you. It does not matter what other people think. Hang in there!

naive

hi wife-

sounds like he's taking the "poor me" stance. mine used to say things like "it's okay if you hate me, i hate me too". for us codies, that is our cue to rush in, give them all our energy and make them better.

i don't really understand where you get the "one lie" position. it's not one lie to hide drinking 10 - 15 bottles of wine in a week. that would take many, many lies. it would take advanced planning and scheming actually.

so now he's depressed? now he's saying sorry that you have to go to therapy because of him?

and on and on it goes. this is the cycle. the lies, the self-hatred, the depression, the high when they drink again. the next depression.

we, in turn, stop trusting. we become suspicious perhaps even when they haven't done anything. on the surface, everything is back to normal. but it's not. they go more undercover and we learn to become detectives. it's an awful cycle.

think you might be one of the lucky ones, who gets informed before too much damage and heartbreak occurs.

FindingPeace1

I want to rescue him SOOO much. It is dawning on me. I think:
Isn't it my place? My job? To love him? Support him? Isn't he in his time of need? I am his wife, aren't I? Doesn't he need me now? When he's down? Wouldn't I want that?? Him to support me? Isn't that what partners do? Make space for the other? Take care of them? Love them when they won't love themselves? He needs me, obviously. I would want him to do the same. Stick by me. Love me, regardless. Allow me my imperfections. Allow me my humanness. Am I so cold? Do I expect him to be perfect? What kind of spouse am I?

Aw, shucks.
How do you pull apart codependency from healthy partnership and love? I seriously can not see the difference!
And I think if I am to step away from the addict, I won't have good reason to return. And that scares the crap out of me.
We just got married 2 years ago. I picture me separating and I feel...embarrassed to have had that big wonderful wedding in front of our friends and family. I feel embarrassed to have to admit we separated. Is that dumb? What/who am I protecting? I would feel like a failure and an idiot, to boot. How could I have been there and then here? What planet was/am I on? I feel ashamed. Is that normal?

LaTeeDa

A social worker once told me that she learned not to cross that line by never putting more effort into helping someone than they are putting into helping themselves. I think that is a good guideline.

Has he asked for your help? Your support? Are you really wanting to "help" him do something, or are you wanting to "make" him do something? Are you supporting him in what HE wants, or are you pushing him to do what YOU want?

You don't have to answer me here, just ask yourself.

L

naive

hi wife-

i think that the line between co-dependency and caring for someone gets crossed when we do for them what they must do themselves. when our efforts spare them the consequences of their drinking, it turns into enabling.

i do understand the embarassed feeling, but you will feel better once you stop protecting his drinking and speak up and get the support you need.

who you are must come from deep within yourself, not from what the outside world thinks.

how is it your fault that he tricked you? he certainly went out of his way to hide his drinking from you. i wouldn't worry about what other people think...it's hard to understand unless you've lived through it.

you are doing great in educating yourself. your own recovery is a journey. it takes time to come out of our own denial. just keep focusing on yourself and you're own recovery. i know it's hard to watch someone you love sitting around dejected and depressed but you do not do him any favors in minimizing what has occurred and making him feel better. that just gives him permission to do it again.

if you were him, what would you do?

i imagine you would reach out for help. i imagine you would apologize and ask your husband for his support in tackling this obstacle in your marriage. i imagine you would go to AA, educate yourself, work the steps.

that is what is required here. it is not what he is doing. he is continuing to zap your energy with this new posture of "poor me".

cassandra2

Being a codie myself I was nodding through your questions and saying yes yes yes. BUT in healthy ways. Go back and read the list of characteristics that most codies posses in Codep No More. Now apply that to the questions you just asked yourself.

To love a person means that you accept them for who they are no matter what. When I say accept them I dont mean in terms of "biting your tongue" type accepting. What I mean is accepting that your husband has a drinking problem and its HIS problem. Its not your problem to fix. Therefore you accept that he has a problem and at the same time you accept that you cant "help" him change. To be codependent is to NOT accept it because we go about fixing THEM.

I love my RABF but if its him or me that is gonna sink I am swimming for the shore. What good am I to anyone if I sink?

First we must practice self love and then when we are really good at loving ourselves and putting ourselves first it is then that we can help another human being. And when I say help I mean being there to listen, being a sound board, showing our support in loving noncontrolling ways.

Startingover2

Ahhh the victim. They love that role and how they can twist us codies into the rescue.

Today I told my exah the date of our baby's dedication at church. Now mind you I take her to church every week and faith is part of my life...not his. He is still drinking and involved with a married woman. I had to tell him of the dedication in case he wants to be a part of it. His response?....."Will lightning strike me down when I walk into the church?"

Now, the codie wanted to say "oh no...you are fine." It is also the response he wanted to hear from me.

But.....

I just smiled and walked away. No need to preach. No need to judge. He knows what a mess he has made of his life.

bookwyrm

I felt (and despite myself still do to some extent) the shame of separation and divorce - and I stayed for 18 years! Marriages fail, not people. YOU are not the failure here! This took ages for me to get. If I made a mistake, I was a mistake. It took a lot of work for me to get out of that mindset. Do you think that you would feel less ashamed and less of an idiot if you spent more years in an unhappy marriage? Don't let this shame and fear cloud your judgement. You only get one shot at life.

To help me work out if what I was doing was enabling I used to ask myself - is this what a partner would do or a mother? I hate the term wife and all its subservient connotations and would rather use partner, cos that was what we agreed to be in our wedding vows. Not that it worked out that way...

I'm so glad you got a copy of Co dependant No More - it really opened my eyes to a lot of the things I had been doing. Self awareness isn't easy but it is so worth it! You sound like you have really made a breakthrough in your recovery. Keep up the good work!