i don't believe in alcoholism im a drunk right now but im not an alcoholic
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 22
i don't believe in alcoholism im a drunk right now but im not an alcoholic
Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
The alcohol does not pour itself down my throat. The alcohol is not the problem.
The problem is in thy mind.
One needs to work on correcting/changing ones mind pattern/thought pattern.
There are several ways to do this and it takes time, energy, effort and a serious determination and desire to change and progress.
There is no such thing as 'alcoholism' or an alcoholic.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
The alcohol does not pour itself down my throat. The alcohol is not the problem.
The problem is in thy mind.
One needs to work on correcting/changing ones mind pattern/thought pattern.
There are several ways to do this and it takes time, energy, effort and a serious determination and desire to change and progress.
There is no such thing as 'alcoholism' or an alcoholic.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 22
i would like to simplify alcoholism and the MIND PATTERN behind 'alcoholism'(and drug addiction)
it comes down to this in it's most simplified form.
the thought pattern behind alcoholism = Blotting out your reality. Escaping.
it comes down to this in it's most simplified form.
the thought pattern behind alcoholism = Blotting out your reality. Escaping.
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,760
If there's no such thing as 'alcoholism' or 'alcoholics' then I'm just a very sick person who needs to stay away from alcohol. No matter what it's called, or not called, I cannot drink or I'll get very sick and I don't want to be that sick anymore.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 22
Now one might ask themselves
Couldn't someone just get hooked on alcohol or drugs by overuse by prescription (oxycontin or Valium)or partying due to peer pressure as why would all on drugs want to blot out their realities?
NO! It is a victimization and avoidance issue. The mind-patterns create the situations. The drugs are just tools the mind uses. It is no accident.
Couldn't someone just get hooked on alcohol or drugs by overuse by prescription (oxycontin or Valium)or partying due to peer pressure as why would all on drugs want to blot out their realities?
NO! It is a victimization and avoidance issue. The mind-patterns create the situations. The drugs are just tools the mind uses. It is no accident.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Baghdad
Posts: 2,822
Overheard this is a bar in Put-In-Bay about three years back. Didn't actually overhear it, these middle-aged women were fairly intoxicated, they shouted it. An old joke.
"We're not alcoholics, we're drunks, alcoholics got to meetings"
"We're not alcoholics, we're drunks, alcoholics got to meetings"
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 22
My problem with AA.
They maintain you cannot be cured, living one day at a time without alcohol, practicing spiritual awareness in all your daily activities, helping your fellows in recovery is a good basis for living which, after time, enables you to add other levels of awareness to the basic foundation of sober living.
I agree it has its place and is a fabulous stepping stone. My issue with ANY support group is that it often feeds the issue instead of boosts you up into the next level. I think it depends upon the leadership and participants if it is a longterm help or hindrance..
But I'm still a drunk so what do i know ?
They maintain you cannot be cured, living one day at a time without alcohol, practicing spiritual awareness in all your daily activities, helping your fellows in recovery is a good basis for living which, after time, enables you to add other levels of awareness to the basic foundation of sober living.
I agree it has its place and is a fabulous stepping stone. My issue with ANY support group is that it often feeds the issue instead of boosts you up into the next level. I think it depends upon the leadership and participants if it is a longterm help or hindrance..
But I'm still a drunk so what do i know ?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 22
AA and similar programs teach you that you have a problem you have to deal with and never be cured.
What should be taught(and there are people that do teach this) is how to eliminate the issue and be well.
I know people who are in NA/AA. What they teach them is that once an addict, always an addict forever more. It is actually NOT a good thing because they do not tell them that they can be cured by healing the mind-pattern, it just keeps them thinking they are always an alcoholic or drug addict and can never be cured and just have to deal with it like you said. I think this is why addicts almost always go back and forth between doing drugs (or alcohol) and getting sober.
There is no way "out". It is mental "incurable" dis-ease as far as conventional therapies are concerned.
The agents of the matrix use the pyramid for their symbol. So does AA. You need to ponder this.
:wtf2
What should be taught(and there are people that do teach this) is how to eliminate the issue and be well.
I know people who are in NA/AA. What they teach them is that once an addict, always an addict forever more. It is actually NOT a good thing because they do not tell them that they can be cured by healing the mind-pattern, it just keeps them thinking they are always an alcoholic or drug addict and can never be cured and just have to deal with it like you said. I think this is why addicts almost always go back and forth between doing drugs (or alcohol) and getting sober.
There is no way "out". It is mental "incurable" dis-ease as far as conventional therapies are concerned.
The agents of the matrix use the pyramid for their symbol. So does AA. You need to ponder this.
:wtf2
Disposable Hero
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Being, ME
Posts: 3,758
Do what you will, say what you will say. It's your life, no one else's.
As for me & my disease; i will continue to maintain my total abstinence, i will continue to regularly go to meetings, i will continue to practice the 12 Steps & 12 Traditions, and i will continue to surrender to the God of my understanding. All of this and more on a daily basis!
It seems as if the rational you have been using is not working so well anymore.
It seems as if you are becoming desperate enough to reach out to others here.
It seems as if you are looking for a new way to live & don't even realize it yet.
Don't give up hope, many of us have been through alot of dificulties in our lives.
As for me & my disease; i will continue to maintain my total abstinence, i will continue to regularly go to meetings, i will continue to practice the 12 Steps & 12 Traditions, and i will continue to surrender to the God of my understanding. All of this and more on a daily basis!
It seems as if the rational you have been using is not working so well anymore.
It seems as if you are becoming desperate enough to reach out to others here.
It seems as if you are looking for a new way to live & don't even realize it yet.
Don't give up hope, many of us have been through alot of dificulties in our lives.
The New Me starting 1/11/09
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: California
Posts: 678
I understand the concern about labels. I do agree that alcohol is our way of dealing with the deeper root cause problem. So, yes, you can't just give up alcohol and be "cured". In fact, you need to develop the life coping tools to be happy.
From my experience, I just couldn't develop the life coping tools while drinking. So, am I an alcoholic? Frankly, it doesn't matter. I just found it much more successful to not drink. Good luck.
From my experience, I just couldn't develop the life coping tools while drinking. So, am I an alcoholic? Frankly, it doesn't matter. I just found it much more successful to not drink. Good luck.
Miracles Happen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 9,977
What should be taught(and there are people that do teach this) is how to eliminate the issue and be well.
Looking For Myself...Sober
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Where the heart is
Posts: 10,209
Originally Posted by TheBCKid 
Now one might ask themselves
Couldn't someone just get hooked on alcohol or drugs by overuse by prescription (oxycontin or Valium)or partying due to peer pressure as why would all on drugs want to blot out their realities?
NO! It is a victimization and avoidance issue. The mind-patterns create the situations. The drugs are just tools the mind uses. It is no accident.
Couldn't someone just get hooked on alcohol or drugs by overuse by prescription (oxycontin or Valium)or partying due to peer pressure as why would all on drugs want to blot out their realities?
NO! It is a victimization and avoidance issue. The mind-patterns create the situations. The drugs are just tools the mind uses. It is no accident.
But your above post does not apply to me. And many others I know.
I started using drugs and continued for fun. Thats what we did to have fun. Then it developed into a need more than a want. Then when consequences started to happen. Then I used to numb, escape reality. But until it became a problem and it was just for recreational purposes. It was an enhancer.
But yes, I totally agree with thinking patterns and behavior as well.
I also know quite a few people that were innocently prescribed narcotics for medical purposes and ended up becoming physically dependent thus turning into mental dependency. So there can be accidents.
Last edited by Aysha; 10-18-2009 at 09:57 AM.
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,361
I've been trying to fix it with my mind all the time....it works when sober...
Then everytime I get too confident...start smoking some...and then I can start all over again
...There have been several people throughout my life that claimed that it was all in my head, that I was creating my own addictive personality by thinking too much about it. I used to listen to them, moderating my use, not thinking about it, just doing it...it caused me to do some of the most dumbest things I ever done...and my use of only softdrugs expanded into soft and harddrugs...
funny thing is...
All those people who claimed that I should 'conquer', 'fix', 'surrender', to the drugs and alcohol, they were heavy daily users themselves...they were the dropouts, the unemployed, the anti-social...
I hope my reply is not offensive..i never wrote it with this intention towards you Kid,but i'm detecting some pattern here...
I actually should be gratefull, cause you made me realize more then ever that i should stick with the programme hahahaha
so....cheers...
Then everytime I get too confident...start smoking some...and then I can start all over again
...There have been several people throughout my life that claimed that it was all in my head, that I was creating my own addictive personality by thinking too much about it. I used to listen to them, moderating my use, not thinking about it, just doing it...it caused me to do some of the most dumbest things I ever done...and my use of only softdrugs expanded into soft and harddrugs...funny thing is...
All those people who claimed that I should 'conquer', 'fix', 'surrender', to the drugs and alcohol, they were heavy daily users themselves...they were the dropouts, the unemployed, the anti-social...
I hope my reply is not offensive..i never wrote it with this intention towards you Kid,but i'm detecting some pattern here...
I actually should be gratefull, cause you made me realize more then ever that i should stick with the programme hahahaha
so....cheers...
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Baghdad
Posts: 2,822
Originally Posted by TheBCKid
AA and similar programs teach you that you have a problem you have to deal with and never be cured.
Originally Posted by TheBCKid
What should be taught(and there are people that do teach this) is how to eliminate the issue and be well.
Originally Posted by TheBCKid
I know people who are in NA/AA. What they teach them is that once an addict, always an addict forever more. It is actually NOT a good thing because they do not tell them that they can be cured by healing the mind-pattern, it just keeps them thinking they are always an alcoholic or drug addict and can never be cured and just have to deal with it like you said. I think this is why addicts almost always go back and forth between doing drugs (or alcohol) and getting sober.
Originally Posted by TheBCKid
The agents of the matrix use the pyramid for their symbol. So does AA. You need to ponder this.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 983
Does it really matter if you're 'cured' or not? Unless you want to go back drinking again, who cares?
I'm learning not to get lost in the verbage. Call yourself a drunk or an alcoholic or Morpheus the Wonderful. Do you want to quit drinking or not?
I"m not trying to be rude, i've listened to the Alcoholism Cure on tape, and the philosophy is similar. You are not an alcoholic, you are someone who used alcohol to escape your emotional/physical problems.
I think the steps are more similar to what you are saying than you think. You are eliminating alcohol from your life so that you can properly deal with your "issues".
I'm learning not to get lost in the verbage. Call yourself a drunk or an alcoholic or Morpheus the Wonderful. Do you want to quit drinking or not?
I"m not trying to be rude, i've listened to the Alcoholism Cure on tape, and the philosophy is similar. You are not an alcoholic, you are someone who used alcohol to escape your emotional/physical problems.
I think the steps are more similar to what you are saying than you think. You are eliminating alcohol from your life so that you can properly deal with your "issues".
where the light is
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,763
Originally Posted by TheBCKid
AA and similar programs teach you that you have a problem you have to deal with and never be cured.
What should be taught(and there are people that do teach this) is how to eliminate the issue and be well.
I know people who are in NA/AA. What they teach them is that once an addict, always an addict forever more. It is actually NOT a good thing because they do not tell them that they can be cured by healing the mind-pattern, it just keeps them thinking they are always an alcoholic or drug addict and can never be cured and just have to deal with it like you said. I think this is why addicts almost always go back and forth between doing drugs (or alcohol) and getting sober.
There is no way "out". It is mental "incurable" dis-ease as far as conventional therapies are concerned.
What should be taught(and there are people that do teach this) is how to eliminate the issue and be well.
I know people who are in NA/AA. What they teach them is that once an addict, always an addict forever more. It is actually NOT a good thing because they do not tell them that they can be cured by healing the mind-pattern, it just keeps them thinking they are always an alcoholic or drug addict and can never be cured and just have to deal with it like you said. I think this is why addicts almost always go back and forth between doing drugs (or alcohol) and getting sober.
There is no way "out". It is mental "incurable" dis-ease as far as conventional therapies are concerned.
And it's more than just being well. It's about living a fullfilling, happy life!
Maybe you should read the Big Book & set your sights a little higher.
Take care.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 28
Well, of course it's in our minds. It's also in our physiology - our bodies. If it were only in out minds, then wouldn't deciding not to drink do the trick? In my opinion and in my experience, a sick mind just can't heal a sick mind.
The most innovative treatments around addiction today deal with trauma - emotional and physical - and it's profound effect, usually before the age of 17. It can be a one-time traumatic event or on-going, chronic trauma such as living with an alcoholic or emotionally or verbally abusive parent. The theory goes that our bodies take that trauma in and store it, and it shows up later in life as anxiety, addiction, mental issues, health issues, especially auto-immune disorders . . .
This theory is actually consistent with what some of the great spiritual teachers have had to say.
Before I actually experienced that my relationship with alcohol continued to degenerate even over the many years I was not drinking at all, and when I started again it didn't take very long to spiral down and beyond where I had gone in the first place, I was pretty resistant to the words "alcoholic" and "alcoholism." Now I don't give a flip what it's called.
I've been doing some serious study. There is no "cure" for a screwed-up relationship with alcohol or other substances or any of the myriad ways we find to go unconscious through addiction. No way, no where.
We do manage to live healthy and satisfying lives, but it requires attention and effort. Also, I don't know anyone who has become free from the gruesome effects of addiction and hasn't had some kind of major shift in their life and lifestyle, either willingly or unwillingly.
I've chosen to treat my umm . . . situation as part of my on-going, deep inner growth, whether I'm drinking or not. I feel better and prefer not to drink, but it hasn't always been possible for me to make that choice at will. I must say, though, that each time I've gone down that path, I've come through the worm-hole with a lot more skill at being alive and well.
So, Kid, the issue here for me, and I think for all of us here (hope I'm not assuming, guys) is - are you drinking and unable to stop and if so, is there anything we can do to help?
The most innovative treatments around addiction today deal with trauma - emotional and physical - and it's profound effect, usually before the age of 17. It can be a one-time traumatic event or on-going, chronic trauma such as living with an alcoholic or emotionally or verbally abusive parent. The theory goes that our bodies take that trauma in and store it, and it shows up later in life as anxiety, addiction, mental issues, health issues, especially auto-immune disorders . . .
This theory is actually consistent with what some of the great spiritual teachers have had to say.
Before I actually experienced that my relationship with alcohol continued to degenerate even over the many years I was not drinking at all, and when I started again it didn't take very long to spiral down and beyond where I had gone in the first place, I was pretty resistant to the words "alcoholic" and "alcoholism." Now I don't give a flip what it's called.
I've been doing some serious study. There is no "cure" for a screwed-up relationship with alcohol or other substances or any of the myriad ways we find to go unconscious through addiction. No way, no where.
We do manage to live healthy and satisfying lives, but it requires attention and effort. Also, I don't know anyone who has become free from the gruesome effects of addiction and hasn't had some kind of major shift in their life and lifestyle, either willingly or unwillingly.
I've chosen to treat my umm . . . situation as part of my on-going, deep inner growth, whether I'm drinking or not. I feel better and prefer not to drink, but it hasn't always been possible for me to make that choice at will. I must say, though, that each time I've gone down that path, I've come through the worm-hole with a lot more skill at being alive and well.
So, Kid, the issue here for me, and I think for all of us here (hope I'm not assuming, guys) is - are you drinking and unable to stop and if so, is there anything we can do to help?
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