Right?????????
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
Right?????????
Wednesday 9/30 my partner and I broke up....if you want the not-too-gorey details I have written about it in the "Relationships" forum.
Anyways, this AM I got the following e-mail from her:
"... I need to feel comfortable and safe when I go into meetings whether I need to talk about any of the stages of grief I might be going through at the time or not to talk just to have an hour where that committee in my head is quieted. So for a period of time can you refrain from attending the Saturday meeting for awhile? As always I will respect your space for gay fellowship on Wednesdays.
~C"
OK some background: both the Wednesday and Saturday night are open GLBT AA meetings -- Wed/discussion & Sat/speaker-discussion -- the attendees at which tend to be, depending on the week, probably anywhere from 50-70% the same people at both meetings. I have gone to the Wednesday meetings pretty much every week for over 4 years....I go the the Saturday one sporadically, but almost always when my partner was not around....and, as I've said elsewhere, she has not been around most Saturdays for the last few months, which means I've pretty much been going every week. I know and am known by the majority of people at the meetings and consider many of them part of my support system, as I am part of theirs.
My partner, as I've also said elsewhere, almost always only attends her HG, which is a GLBT Friday evening meeting, which is a relatively small meeting the core attendees at which are a few couples who do not regularly attend the other local GLBT meetings. She rarely attends any other meetings at all, and she has told me many times, ever since she began attending meetings again ~4 years ago, that she does not like the Wednesday and Saturday meetings, that they are clickish and mainstream, that she doesn't fit in at them, and that the people there don't like her. I honestly don't think any of that is acutally true, but I do think that she -- as a general rule -- believes it...but, whatever.....
So, obviously, the e-mail makes very little sense in any kind of objective, rational way....and I think I had two simultaneous "gut responses" to it: 1) What manipulative B*llsh*t! and 2) I should do this for her because she does really need help/support and she has so much trouble opening up to people and getting that and becasue she really is probably in much worse shape right now than I am.
But, the more I thought about it....the more BS it became...because, let's face it, the reason I am in a much better place is because I work my program very seriously and very consistently -- a fairly big piece of that being going to meetings and spending a lot of time working with and talking to program people. But, it's also true that I have much, much less problem just deciding on the spur of the moment to check out a new or different meeting because, unlike her, I have relatively high self-esteem and a positive outlook and typically assume that meetings are going to be good, that the people there are going to be welcoming and supportive, and that I am going to have a good/valuable experience.
Well, obviously, I got really, really caught up in the pros and cons of this -- and I did talk with a few people in RL this afternoon -- 2 recovering alcoholics and 2 double winners -- and have basically gotten the laughter followed by: "Why are you even thinking of taking care of her? Take care of yourself!" response or the "The only time I've ever seen her at either of those meetings in years is when she tags along with you!" response.
And, in all honesty, I did partially wimp-out few minutes ago and temporarily give in to her...ended up telling her I was still processing it and would not attend the meeting tonight....like an idiot, I called her because I really did want her to know that I've been thinking about her and about her dad (not recovering well from a recent surgery)...and I wanted to try to talk with her about this calmly and rationally.....that right there should have been a really good indication that I was not in my right mind, because lately she has been pretty much 100% in that place of she gets what she wants or she is a totally harsh, nasty, blaming b*itch.
And that's exactly what happned. She immediately went to that "Well, I'm an alcoholic and you know I could drink over this, don't you???" place. Right. Yeah she could. And that just suddenly became 1) the truth and 2) my problem/responsibility because we broke up????? Because her dad had surgery????? I think I'm missing something here because I kinda had the idea -- with any 12 step program -- that the point was you work it hard and strong so that you have the tools and the support in place before you suddenly desperately need them and realize you don't have them when these kind of things happen...
Again, w-h-a-t-e-ve-r......I just felt like "You are so friggin' sick, just go to the friggin' meeting and let me be somewhere, anywhere else," because the truth is she would not go if I were there -- which is, of course, a major problem in and of itself. So, tonight I'm not going....but......
What I really feel this is like is dealing with a terrible 2 year old when he's in that place where mom is just sooooo tired and it's just sooooooooooo much easier to give in than deal with the temper tantrums....
.......and that, of course, is the very worst long-term strategy possible.
Right?????????
freya
Anyways, this AM I got the following e-mail from her:
"... I need to feel comfortable and safe when I go into meetings whether I need to talk about any of the stages of grief I might be going through at the time or not to talk just to have an hour where that committee in my head is quieted. So for a period of time can you refrain from attending the Saturday meeting for awhile? As always I will respect your space for gay fellowship on Wednesdays.
~C"
OK some background: both the Wednesday and Saturday night are open GLBT AA meetings -- Wed/discussion & Sat/speaker-discussion -- the attendees at which tend to be, depending on the week, probably anywhere from 50-70% the same people at both meetings. I have gone to the Wednesday meetings pretty much every week for over 4 years....I go the the Saturday one sporadically, but almost always when my partner was not around....and, as I've said elsewhere, she has not been around most Saturdays for the last few months, which means I've pretty much been going every week. I know and am known by the majority of people at the meetings and consider many of them part of my support system, as I am part of theirs.
My partner, as I've also said elsewhere, almost always only attends her HG, which is a GLBT Friday evening meeting, which is a relatively small meeting the core attendees at which are a few couples who do not regularly attend the other local GLBT meetings. She rarely attends any other meetings at all, and she has told me many times, ever since she began attending meetings again ~4 years ago, that she does not like the Wednesday and Saturday meetings, that they are clickish and mainstream, that she doesn't fit in at them, and that the people there don't like her. I honestly don't think any of that is acutally true, but I do think that she -- as a general rule -- believes it...but, whatever.....
So, obviously, the e-mail makes very little sense in any kind of objective, rational way....and I think I had two simultaneous "gut responses" to it: 1) What manipulative B*llsh*t! and 2) I should do this for her because she does really need help/support and she has so much trouble opening up to people and getting that and becasue she really is probably in much worse shape right now than I am.
But, the more I thought about it....the more BS it became...because, let's face it, the reason I am in a much better place is because I work my program very seriously and very consistently -- a fairly big piece of that being going to meetings and spending a lot of time working with and talking to program people. But, it's also true that I have much, much less problem just deciding on the spur of the moment to check out a new or different meeting because, unlike her, I have relatively high self-esteem and a positive outlook and typically assume that meetings are going to be good, that the people there are going to be welcoming and supportive, and that I am going to have a good/valuable experience.
Well, obviously, I got really, really caught up in the pros and cons of this -- and I did talk with a few people in RL this afternoon -- 2 recovering alcoholics and 2 double winners -- and have basically gotten the laughter followed by: "Why are you even thinking of taking care of her? Take care of yourself!" response or the "The only time I've ever seen her at either of those meetings in years is when she tags along with you!" response.
And, in all honesty, I did partially wimp-out few minutes ago and temporarily give in to her...ended up telling her I was still processing it and would not attend the meeting tonight....like an idiot, I called her because I really did want her to know that I've been thinking about her and about her dad (not recovering well from a recent surgery)...and I wanted to try to talk with her about this calmly and rationally.....that right there should have been a really good indication that I was not in my right mind, because lately she has been pretty much 100% in that place of she gets what she wants or she is a totally harsh, nasty, blaming b*itch.
And that's exactly what happned. She immediately went to that "Well, I'm an alcoholic and you know I could drink over this, don't you???" place. Right. Yeah she could. And that just suddenly became 1) the truth and 2) my problem/responsibility because we broke up????? Because her dad had surgery????? I think I'm missing something here because I kinda had the idea -- with any 12 step program -- that the point was you work it hard and strong so that you have the tools and the support in place before you suddenly desperately need them and realize you don't have them when these kind of things happen...
Again, w-h-a-t-e-ve-r......I just felt like "You are so friggin' sick, just go to the friggin' meeting and let me be somewhere, anywhere else," because the truth is she would not go if I were there -- which is, of course, a major problem in and of itself. So, tonight I'm not going....but......
What I really feel this is like is dealing with a terrible 2 year old when he's in that place where mom is just sooooo tired and it's just sooooooooooo much easier to give in than deal with the temper tantrums....
.......and that, of course, is the very worst long-term strategy possible.
Right?????????
freya
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Here is my best for you: There is no Right and there is no Wrong. You have simply reacted and are continuing to react. Case in point:
Doesn't matter if it is manipulative, BS, deserved, undeserved, unfair, wrong, any other adjective or adverb you can think of. And you should not do anything for anyone other than YOU. You must take HER out of YOUR Sobriety and your Recovery. She sure probably does need the help you think she does but it is NOT your responsibility to either provide her the help NOR sacrifice YOUR needs for HER needs.
Calm down, breathe, and let go of what you think she is doing. Let go of the hurt and the anger and the pain. You do not need to respond to her. In fact, right now, I don't recommend it. Go no-contact and do what is in your best interest for YOU. If SHE cannot handle YOU in the same meeting, she should make adjustments for HERSELF. If YOU cannot handle HER in the same meeting, YOU should make adjustments for YOURSELF.
p.s. I'm sorry you are going through this. I know everything's going to all right.
1) What manipulative B*llsh*t! and 2) I should do this for her because she does really need help/support and she has so much trouble opening up to people and getting that and becasue she really is probably in much worse shape right now than I am.
Calm down, breathe, and let go of what you think she is doing. Let go of the hurt and the anger and the pain. You do not need to respond to her. In fact, right now, I don't recommend it. Go no-contact and do what is in your best interest for YOU. If SHE cannot handle YOU in the same meeting, she should make adjustments for HERSELF. If YOU cannot handle HER in the same meeting, YOU should make adjustments for YOURSELF.
p.s. I'm sorry you are going through this. I know everything's going to all right.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In my little piece of heaven
Posts: 2,870
I remember when I was going thru the divorce process with my exH. He suddenly decided he could benefit from attending Al Anon and insisted on going to the same meeting I attended regularly. We lived in a big city - trust me there were a lot of other meetings he could have attended, but it had to be this one.
I went thru many of the same emotions you described. Righteous indignation was on the top of the list. I talked to recovery friends and ultimately did what I needed to do to take care of myself. It only lasted a few weeks, but I would look to see if his car was there. If it was, I skipped that meeting and made it a point to go to a different meeting in our area. I found multiple benefits... I avoided him, he soon quit going to the meeting as he couldn't manipulate the people who were there, and I discovered some other meetings in our area that were really quite healthy and helpful.
My sponsor used to tell me that time heals all wounds, and usually wounds all heals as well.
I went thru many of the same emotions you described. Righteous indignation was on the top of the list. I talked to recovery friends and ultimately did what I needed to do to take care of myself. It only lasted a few weeks, but I would look to see if his car was there. If it was, I skipped that meeting and made it a point to go to a different meeting in our area. I found multiple benefits... I avoided him, he soon quit going to the meeting as he couldn't manipulate the people who were there, and I discovered some other meetings in our area that were really quite healthy and helpful.
My sponsor used to tell me that time heals all wounds, and usually wounds all heals as well.
Curled up in a good book...
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,542
I don't have anything to add to the excellent advice you've already received. I just wanted to send you some support. You know you're not responsible for her and you know its a crappy situation. My STBXAH was a master at emotional manipulation, his favourite trick to bring me into line was to threaten suicide. I eventually knew it for the BS it was but that didn't stop me feeling a whole load of guilt every time he used it. Doesn't work any more and I'm no contact now but still, I really feel for you. Going back to the first step helped for me until I could minimise contact. :ghug3
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
It's your meeting, you've been going to for years. It's up to her to deal with you being there if she feels she absolutely has to be at that meeting, or find other avenues of support. It's not your problem.
Easily said right?
Easily said right?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
I don't compromise my recovery, and what I do for my recovery, for anyone.
What I am hearing is for some reason you still feel sorry for her to a certain extent because she is so sick.
She's an adult. Whether she acts like one or not has no bearing on the fact that she IS an adult.
Give her the dignity to live her own life, miserable as it may be, and don't catch the ball of guilt when she throws it at you.
Perhaps now is the time to go no contact?
:ghug2 :ghug2
What I am hearing is for some reason you still feel sorry for her to a certain extent because she is so sick.
She's an adult. Whether she acts like one or not has no bearing on the fact that she IS an adult.
Give her the dignity to live her own life, miserable as it may be, and don't catch the ball of guilt when she throws it at you.
Perhaps now is the time to go no contact?
:ghug2 :ghug2
Ohhhhhh.......now I get it....
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 46
I have been told several times in the past couple of week to take care of myself. but it's easier said than done. I know, I have been struggling with it alot lately.Sensing strenghth and encouragement nt
Ohhhhhh.......now I get it....
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 46
I have been so exhausted lately that when I was writing my response earlier, I actually dozed off.... What I meant to say was.....SENDING STRENGTH AND ENCOURAGEMENT YOUR WAY!!!!!!!!!!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
Thanks everyone. Always great to have people who care enough to tell me the truth!!!!!!
OK...this has actually turned out to be the most awesome thing......and I had a huge epiphany around it -- and around one my most problematic MOs, this AM.....
The backstory: Since Friday I have been having this totally awesome coversation with a friend re: the relationship between spirituality and sexuality....Now both of us are, sexually, submissives, so some of the convo has been around that as a metaphor for for relating to HP.....And, one of the things about that that is pretty odd for me personally - in terms of my overall style and approach to life -- is that I am very much a big-brain, rational, in-control kind of person...and intellect has pretty much "ruled" my life and behavior since a very young age. But when it comes to sex and romance, that has never, ever been the case and I've always, for as along as I can remember, been all about following / going where I'm lead through attraction in this area. It's like, in this respect, big-brain has just somehow naturally always known and respected the fact the she needs to not be meddling in or trying to control things.
So, anyways, last night -- after having totally, unbelievably given (more like "thrown!") away my serenity and p*ssed myself off over my wimp-out on the phone with my ex. I finally was able to go to a different meeting / calm down / reconnect with HP and feel 90% better.
Then, this AM I get up and start my daily routine, and I am, of course thinking about, among other things, my ongoing discussion with my friend and my behavior with my ex yesterday...and suddenly it occurs to me 1) that the reason I did what I did and then flipped out over is as I did was because I had pretty much failed, beginning early in the day, to pay much attention to being in touch with HP and, more importantly, 2) the reason that I had failed to do so was because I was letting my big-brain totally control the show because I was so involved in the convo. So, when I got that e-mail from my ex, not only was I at pretty low power spiritually, but I was also so "up in my head" that I had virtually no emotional resources at the ready to defend against letting the big-brain proceed with trying to "take care of" it all cooly and rationally.
So, anyways, the "epiphany" for me is around the fact that big-brain needs to be better trained to and more aware of when she needs to step out of the way in order for me to submit to HP/receive from HP the same way that she has always somehow known that she needs to step out of the way in order for me to submit/receive sexually.
The truth is, as far as I can tell, big-brain doesn't actually have a problem with this theoretically....because she pretty much always does have good motives and sincere commitment to taking care of me (the whole "me") but she's got the habit of being in control and the very bad habit of being in control in a totally steam-rollerish way...and even though we have made great progress in breaking her of that habit, obviously, true long-term success is going to depend, daily, on our overall spiritual condition...So, yeah, defintely looks like it's time for a more concious and concerted effort there.
freya
OK...this has actually turned out to be the most awesome thing......and I had a huge epiphany around it -- and around one my most problematic MOs, this AM.....
The backstory: Since Friday I have been having this totally awesome coversation with a friend re: the relationship between spirituality and sexuality....Now both of us are, sexually, submissives, so some of the convo has been around that as a metaphor for for relating to HP.....And, one of the things about that that is pretty odd for me personally - in terms of my overall style and approach to life -- is that I am very much a big-brain, rational, in-control kind of person...and intellect has pretty much "ruled" my life and behavior since a very young age. But when it comes to sex and romance, that has never, ever been the case and I've always, for as along as I can remember, been all about following / going where I'm lead through attraction in this area. It's like, in this respect, big-brain has just somehow naturally always known and respected the fact the she needs to not be meddling in or trying to control things.
So, anyways, last night -- after having totally, unbelievably given (more like "thrown!") away my serenity and p*ssed myself off over my wimp-out on the phone with my ex. I finally was able to go to a different meeting / calm down / reconnect with HP and feel 90% better.
Then, this AM I get up and start my daily routine, and I am, of course thinking about, among other things, my ongoing discussion with my friend and my behavior with my ex yesterday...and suddenly it occurs to me 1) that the reason I did what I did and then flipped out over is as I did was because I had pretty much failed, beginning early in the day, to pay much attention to being in touch with HP and, more importantly, 2) the reason that I had failed to do so was because I was letting my big-brain totally control the show because I was so involved in the convo. So, when I got that e-mail from my ex, not only was I at pretty low power spiritually, but I was also so "up in my head" that I had virtually no emotional resources at the ready to defend against letting the big-brain proceed with trying to "take care of" it all cooly and rationally.
So, anyways, the "epiphany" for me is around the fact that big-brain needs to be better trained to and more aware of when she needs to step out of the way in order for me to submit to HP/receive from HP the same way that she has always somehow known that she needs to step out of the way in order for me to submit/receive sexually.
The truth is, as far as I can tell, big-brain doesn't actually have a problem with this theoretically....because she pretty much always does have good motives and sincere commitment to taking care of me (the whole "me") but she's got the habit of being in control and the very bad habit of being in control in a totally steam-rollerish way...and even though we have made great progress in breaking her of that habit, obviously, true long-term success is going to depend, daily, on our overall spiritual condition...So, yeah, defintely looks like it's time for a more concious and concerted effort there.
freya
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
So, as some of you know, there was apparently a bit of drama here on Monday and Tuesday re: whether or not my ex was "stalking" me here on SR. Well, yesterday I was told by an AA friend that my ex has e-mailed some people with links to some of my posts here.
Now, this is totally bizarre for a few reasons: 1) She certanly knows me well enough to know that whether she or anyone else is reading what I write here, it's not going to make any difference to me; 2) Why would anyone else be interested -- I mean, does she really think anyone cares so much about our break-up that she might be able to manipulate him/her into doing her stalking/spying/whatever-the-h*ll-it-is for her???? Stalking is sick enough --but second-hand stalking???? Give me a break! I'm not sure even she knows people -- even in VR -- who would be interested in stooping that low! and 3) What would she possibly hope to gain by doing this??? I mean, I do try not to bash her, but it's certainly not like what I have to say makes her look stellar either, so why would she really want to draw people's attention to it?
Anyway, so who's reading what, I don't care.....but, her weird behavior in this regard, I do care.
It just feels very uncomfortable to me -- my "sponsor" used the word "psycho" and the person who told me about this used the word "creepy," but I guess, since I totally don't understand it, I'll just settle for its not being something I want to deal with or be around.
So, we were supposed to go to a movie at the local GLBT film festival Saturday, said plan having been made when I was still hopeful that we could be friends despite the break-up. But, after getting this new info, I just really felt not-at-all-good about trying to do that with her....So, after going to way too many meetings this week and talking to quite a few people, I have just sent her an e-mail telling her that I don't feel comfortable doing it and, briefly, why. I had 2 people go over it with me before I sent it....and obviously, I "thought" about it for over 24 hours before I even decided not to do it.
What is wrong with me? Why is it that what is prefectly obvious to other people and what would be perfectly obvious to me, too, if it were someone else's "issue" takes me 24 hours and the program support of several people in order for me to get it right and feel right about doing so?????? Actually, to trust myself is what it's really about and to trust that I'm doing the right thing, even though she is porbably not going to like it.....although, at this point, the honest to God truth is probably that, if it were something she would like, that would be a pretty good indicator that it was not the right thing!
freya
Now, this is totally bizarre for a few reasons: 1) She certanly knows me well enough to know that whether she or anyone else is reading what I write here, it's not going to make any difference to me; 2) Why would anyone else be interested -- I mean, does she really think anyone cares so much about our break-up that she might be able to manipulate him/her into doing her stalking/spying/whatever-the-h*ll-it-is for her???? Stalking is sick enough --but second-hand stalking???? Give me a break! I'm not sure even she knows people -- even in VR -- who would be interested in stooping that low! and 3) What would she possibly hope to gain by doing this??? I mean, I do try not to bash her, but it's certainly not like what I have to say makes her look stellar either, so why would she really want to draw people's attention to it?
Anyway, so who's reading what, I don't care.....but, her weird behavior in this regard, I do care.
It just feels very uncomfortable to me -- my "sponsor" used the word "psycho" and the person who told me about this used the word "creepy," but I guess, since I totally don't understand it, I'll just settle for its not being something I want to deal with or be around.
So, we were supposed to go to a movie at the local GLBT film festival Saturday, said plan having been made when I was still hopeful that we could be friends despite the break-up. But, after getting this new info, I just really felt not-at-all-good about trying to do that with her....So, after going to way too many meetings this week and talking to quite a few people, I have just sent her an e-mail telling her that I don't feel comfortable doing it and, briefly, why. I had 2 people go over it with me before I sent it....and obviously, I "thought" about it for over 24 hours before I even decided not to do it.
What is wrong with me? Why is it that what is prefectly obvious to other people and what would be perfectly obvious to me, too, if it were someone else's "issue" takes me 24 hours and the program support of several people in order for me to get it right and feel right about doing so?????? Actually, to trust myself is what it's really about and to trust that I'm doing the right thing, even though she is porbably not going to like it.....although, at this point, the honest to God truth is probably that, if it were something she would like, that would be a pretty good indicator that it was not the right thing!
freya
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Do you mean we should be able to just...do things...like "normal" people? No worrying, wondering, re-hashing, re-writing? 
I totally agree, and when it you get that figured out can you fill me in?
I totally agree, and when it you get that figured out can you fill me in?
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Breakups suck.
Hang in there freya! And if she goes to "your" meeting then find another meeting. Then after you heal and no longer care if she goes or not, you can go back to the old meeting. Well that is what I would do. Sounds so easy too hopefully there are other meetings available or online meetings. Not to give her anything but to allow you to attend a meeting and have your full attention on what is said.
:ghug2
Hang in there freya! And if she goes to "your" meeting then find another meeting. Then after you heal and no longer care if she goes or not, you can go back to the old meeting. Well that is what I would do. Sounds so easy too
hopefully there are other meetings available or online meetings. Not to give her anything but to allow you to attend a meeting and have your full attention on what is said.:ghug2
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Baghdad
Posts: 2,822
Originally Posted by freya 
What is wrong with me? Why is it that what is prefectly obvious to other people and what would be perfectly obvious to me, too, if it were someone else's "issue" takes me 24 hours and the program support of several people in order for me to get it right and feel right about doing so?????? Actually, to trust myself is what it's really about and to trust that I'm doing the right thing, even though she is porbably not going to like it.....although, at this point, the honest to God truth is probably that, if it were something she would like, that would be a pretty good indicator that it was not the right thing!
freya
freya
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 14,246
What is wrong with me?
Why is it that what is prefectly obvious to other people and what would be perfectly obvious to me, too, if it were someone else's "issue" takes me 24 hours and the program support of several people in order for me to get it right and feel right about doing so??????
I recently got into to a situation with my FIL and when he did his 'thing' of trying to get me upset (I allowed him to succeed)....I was caught totally unaware. This was fairly upsetting in itself because...you see...I've been married to his son over 35 years and know what I need to do.
You're doing a great job of working through this. I hope the dust settles soon and you're feeling more peaceful about it all.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
OK 2 meetings today....and both of them perfectly, exactly what I needed:
The first one, the speaker said: "The first thing my sponsor always asks me is: 'Is (or will) this thing (this behavior, this relationship, this activity, this thought process, this attitude, whatever) helping or hindering your relationship with HP?' "
DUH!!!!!!!!! The only question that matters, the bottom line issue 100% of the time.....how in the friggin' h*ll is it so easy to forget it?????????
Maybe because it makes "the right thing" so undeniably clear?
The second one, one of my sponsee's just hit the nail right on the head. Talking about her "recovering" AB: "I just told him: 'If you want to keep on living exactly where you were living and doing exactly what you were doing 7 years ago, then I can't stop you. But I've grown and I've changed and I think I've passed the point of no return, so if you stay stuck and I keep growing then I don't see how we'll be together.' Yeah, I said it and I'm OK with it......because I do love him but I don't need him and I am going forward."
OH, YEAH!!!!!......and that's exactly the issue with me and my ex...and it's so wonderful to see this girl getting it and being so committed to her own growth and her own path. That is just such good stuff!!!!!!!
freya
P.S. ....and one more thing....one of the people I talked to today (double winner with great program in both rooms) said, when I was bemoaning the fact that I've been "needing" so many meetings lately:
"Well, you know, I go to as many meetings as I can. When things are good, it raises my baseline level of serenity and happiness, joy & freedom; and when things aren't good, it keeps me from falling too far below that baseline."
So true, so true!
The first one, the speaker said: "The first thing my sponsor always asks me is: 'Is (or will) this thing (this behavior, this relationship, this activity, this thought process, this attitude, whatever) helping or hindering your relationship with HP?' "
DUH!!!!!!!!! The only question that matters, the bottom line issue 100% of the time.....how in the friggin' h*ll is it so easy to forget it?????????
Maybe because it makes "the right thing" so undeniably clear?
The second one, one of my sponsee's just hit the nail right on the head. Talking about her "recovering" AB: "I just told him: 'If you want to keep on living exactly where you were living and doing exactly what you were doing 7 years ago, then I can't stop you. But I've grown and I've changed and I think I've passed the point of no return, so if you stay stuck and I keep growing then I don't see how we'll be together.' Yeah, I said it and I'm OK with it......because I do love him but I don't need him and I am going forward."
OH, YEAH!!!!!......and that's exactly the issue with me and my ex...and it's so wonderful to see this girl getting it and being so committed to her own growth and her own path. That is just such good stuff!!!!!!!
freya
P.S. ....and one more thing....one of the people I talked to today (double winner with great program in both rooms) said, when I was bemoaning the fact that I've been "needing" so many meetings lately:
"Well, you know, I go to as many meetings as I can. When things are good, it raises my baseline level of serenity and happiness, joy & freedom; and when things aren't good, it keeps me from falling too far below that baseline."
So true, so true!
Last edited by freya; 10-15-2009 at 06:41 PM.
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 1,636
Engaging with Insanity...
..is Insanity.
Ago used to have a signature line that said that......and how true it is.
So, yesterday I did very, very well, with not engaging in the insanity of my ex.....this AM I did not do quite so well at not engaging in the insanity of my codependent mom and sister.
Yesterday afternoon I finally got a response to my e-mail to my ex about not going to the film due to her bizarre behavior. And, of course, in the e-mail the bizarre behavior appeared to only be escalating. So, I read a couple lines, immediately stopped myself and forwarded it to one of my friends who had told me they'd be willing to screen her e-mails for me. Forwarded it and then deleted it.
So far, so good.
And then actually did put it out of my mind -- in the sense of not sitting around thinking about the few crazy lines I had read and how I should or could respond to them, etc....etc....etc.....
Very good.
Went to another new-to-me meeting last night and saw this man, with whom I used to work and whom I have only seen one other time in the last 13 or 14 years, but with whom I seem to have some kind of strange symbolic connection. So, anyways, he was talking about his own 2-week-old break-up and just dealing with exactly the same disconnected-from-reality insanity with his ex as I am dealing with with mine. And I started crying -- for both of us I think -- when he was sharing. And afterward we talked, and it was very good for me because I found myself really talking to him about using program tools and program people who are there for him, and about how I've been doing all of that and it really has been so helpful for me. And, then, of course, I had to admit to myself that it really was good and OK and not some kind of sign of crazy weakness that I was doing all of that, which, of course, got me to feeling very, very grateful and blessed that I have all of that available to me and that I actually am using it even when I feel like I shouldn't have to be and even when I don't feel 100% comfortable doing so.
So, it was very good -- and if I had gotten on my high horse and decided that I was going to attend the Saturday GLBT meeting, despite the fact that HP had totally removed all of my energy and concern around it, just "for the principle of it" (said principle probably being nothing higher than "you're not the boss of me" and "I'll show you"!!!!), I, obviously, would not have seen or gotten to talk to this person.
But, then, this AM, my mom and my sister: I made the mistake of telling them about the e-mail yesterday and how I had handled it. I guess, somehow, I expected that they would "get" the fact that this was a success and a good thing.
Sis: "But you don't even know what she said about you in it!"
Me: "Yeah....that was kinda the whole idea."
Mom: "But what if she's out there telling people terrible lies about you?"
Me: "What IF......?????? I'm as close to certain as I can be that she probably is."
Mom: "Well, what are you going to do about it?"
Me: "What am I going to do about it? Hopefully, nothing. It's not really my business or my problem. I guess I'm just going to try to keep out of it and away from it and let my own behavior and program speak for itself."
Sis (getting a bit hysterical): "Nothing!?!?!?!? You don't care what people think about you?"
Me: "Of course there are some people who I care what they think about me...but they aren't likely to be the same people who are going to entertain her BS just because she chooses to put it out there or not be able to tell that she's just in a really messed-up, out-of-control place. As for people who want to go there with her just for the drama??? Can't really say that I do care what they think...." (then, trying to insert some humor) "Actually, can't really say that I believe that they 'think' period."
So, it went on. A bit later I made the even bigger mistake of trying to remind my mom that she had frequently told us when she was raising us that the good opinion of people who form their opinions based on prejudice, or gossip, or the desire to conform and be approved of was not worth having and that we were much better off knowing such people for who they were so that we would not get in the position of even imagining that they could truly be trusted or relied on or capable of friendship and/or acting with integrity.......Of course, her response was something about how it's different when people are hurting your family members......exactly how it's "different" and how it's "hurting" me, unless I choose to give it that power, I couldn't really get her to explain......
Finally, I did disengage by telling them that I really was just going to concentrate on taking care of myself and not trying to control her or anybody that she could control that easily....and I left the kitchen.
Yeah, definitely should not have gone there....and they will doubtlessly regroup and come back even stronger tomorrow evening with my brother for reinforcements (local family always comes to my house on Monday evenings for dinner).
So, it'll be a good opportunity to practice not engaging with them about it......How fun!
freya
Ago used to have a signature line that said that......and how true it is.
So, yesterday I did very, very well, with not engaging in the insanity of my ex.....this AM I did not do quite so well at not engaging in the insanity of my codependent mom and sister.
Yesterday afternoon I finally got a response to my e-mail to my ex about not going to the film due to her bizarre behavior. And, of course, in the e-mail the bizarre behavior appeared to only be escalating. So, I read a couple lines, immediately stopped myself and forwarded it to one of my friends who had told me they'd be willing to screen her e-mails for me. Forwarded it and then deleted it.
So far, so good.
And then actually did put it out of my mind -- in the sense of not sitting around thinking about the few crazy lines I had read and how I should or could respond to them, etc....etc....etc.....
Very good.
Went to another new-to-me meeting last night and saw this man, with whom I used to work and whom I have only seen one other time in the last 13 or 14 years, but with whom I seem to have some kind of strange symbolic connection. So, anyways, he was talking about his own 2-week-old break-up and just dealing with exactly the same disconnected-from-reality insanity with his ex as I am dealing with with mine. And I started crying -- for both of us I think -- when he was sharing. And afterward we talked, and it was very good for me because I found myself really talking to him about using program tools and program people who are there for him, and about how I've been doing all of that and it really has been so helpful for me. And, then, of course, I had to admit to myself that it really was good and OK and not some kind of sign of crazy weakness that I was doing all of that, which, of course, got me to feeling very, very grateful and blessed that I have all of that available to me and that I actually am using it even when I feel like I shouldn't have to be and even when I don't feel 100% comfortable doing so.
So, it was very good -- and if I had gotten on my high horse and decided that I was going to attend the Saturday GLBT meeting, despite the fact that HP had totally removed all of my energy and concern around it, just "for the principle of it" (said principle probably being nothing higher than "you're not the boss of me" and "I'll show you"!!!!), I, obviously, would not have seen or gotten to talk to this person.
But, then, this AM, my mom and my sister: I made the mistake of telling them about the e-mail yesterday and how I had handled it. I guess, somehow, I expected that they would "get" the fact that this was a success and a good thing.
Sis: "But you don't even know what she said about you in it!"
Me: "Yeah....that was kinda the whole idea."
Mom: "But what if she's out there telling people terrible lies about you?"
Me: "What IF......?????? I'm as close to certain as I can be that she probably is."
Mom: "Well, what are you going to do about it?"
Me: "What am I going to do about it? Hopefully, nothing. It's not really my business or my problem. I guess I'm just going to try to keep out of it and away from it and let my own behavior and program speak for itself."
Sis (getting a bit hysterical): "Nothing!?!?!?!? You don't care what people think about you?"
Me: "Of course there are some people who I care what they think about me...but they aren't likely to be the same people who are going to entertain her BS just because she chooses to put it out there or not be able to tell that she's just in a really messed-up, out-of-control place. As for people who want to go there with her just for the drama??? Can't really say that I do care what they think...." (then, trying to insert some humor) "Actually, can't really say that I believe that they 'think' period."
So, it went on. A bit later I made the even bigger mistake of trying to remind my mom that she had frequently told us when she was raising us that the good opinion of people who form their opinions based on prejudice, or gossip, or the desire to conform and be approved of was not worth having and that we were much better off knowing such people for who they were so that we would not get in the position of even imagining that they could truly be trusted or relied on or capable of friendship and/or acting with integrity.......Of course, her response was something about how it's different when people are hurting your family members......exactly how it's "different" and how it's "hurting" me, unless I choose to give it that power, I couldn't really get her to explain......
Finally, I did disengage by telling them that I really was just going to concentrate on taking care of myself and not trying to control her or anybody that she could control that easily....and I left the kitchen.
Yeah, definitely should not have gone there....and they will doubtlessly regroup and come back even stronger tomorrow evening with my brother for reinforcements (local family always comes to my house on Monday evenings for dinner).
So, it'll be a good opportunity to practice not engaging with them about it......How fun!
freya
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