Planning my escape & feeling guilty?
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Someplace USA
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Planning my escape & feeling guilty?
I got some positive feed back on a place I looked at renting a few weeks back, this just happened today. I've been really excited about moving out. My AH who had been in a really foul state of mind had suddenly last week turned bright a cheery. I guess when the weeks of verbal abuse didn't make me cry this is a new game or he just got what he wanted. I'm not sure.
He doesn't know I plan on leaving. He can get so mean I'll just be gone one day. I'm sure it's a codie thing... BUT why do I feel so guilty??? I know it's just because he's being nice right now. I keep on moving forward because deep down I know he's still drinking just as much and this mood can change just as quick as the last. The kids and I deserve better.
Knowing all I know; this is hard. I wish he was being mean. On top of this my parents are completely against this. I should just stay and pray for him to change. I guess 8 years wasn't long enough. I'm also a little afraid of the unknown. Oh well thanks for listening to me. I'm going to keep moving forward; I meet with my lawyer for an update next Thursday and I guess then I should hear about this house in a week. I'm just stressing... Thanks for listening...I just didn't expect to feel guilty or second guess myself. I'm goofy I guess...
He doesn't know I plan on leaving. He can get so mean I'll just be gone one day. I'm sure it's a codie thing... BUT why do I feel so guilty??? I know it's just because he's being nice right now. I keep on moving forward because deep down I know he's still drinking just as much and this mood can change just as quick as the last. The kids and I deserve better.
Knowing all I know; this is hard. I wish he was being mean. On top of this my parents are completely against this. I should just stay and pray for him to change. I guess 8 years wasn't long enough. I'm also a little afraid of the unknown. Oh well thanks for listening to me. I'm going to keep moving forward; I meet with my lawyer for an update next Thursday and I guess then I should hear about this house in a week. I'm just stressing... Thanks for listening...I just didn't expect to feel guilty or second guess myself. I'm goofy I guess...
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In the barn
Posts: 324
Brundle, I think its very natural to second guess this big of a decision. It sounds like you are doing all you can to make sure that you are taking the right steps for yourself and your kids. And it is normal to feel pressured by the disapproval of those we love; even as much as my parents completely understood why I asking J for a separation, they still didn't like it, and that made it harder for me.
Ultimately, what matters is what YOU know is best for YOU and your children. You have done so much to validate and check that; it is time to trust your innate wisdom and your good heart. Its OK to have doubts. If you didn't you wouldn't be human.
I will be praying for you to have strength in the upcoming weeks and that if this house you are looking at is the right one for you that it comes through.
Ultimately, what matters is what YOU know is best for YOU and your children. You have done so much to validate and check that; it is time to trust your innate wisdom and your good heart. Its OK to have doubts. If you didn't you wouldn't be human.
I will be praying for you to have strength in the upcoming weeks and that if this house you are looking at is the right one for you that it comes through.
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
I should just stay and pray for him to change. I guess 8 years wasn't long enough.
I know you're processing about the guilt. the beautiful thing is you're still doing the right thing, regardless of the sickness around you.
I stood at this threshold not too long ago myself. You're about to break out of the cocoon Beautiful Brundle. I'm honored you come here and share it with us.
You can do this! Just remember the magic words:
I am leaving you now.
This is my choice.
I am free of your toxic behaviors
All is for my greater good.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Hi brundle.
I am learning even if I feel guilt, pain, anger, resentment, sadness, envy, jealousy or everything at the same time, these feelings are just feelings and one day they will change and I will feel something else. Perhaps making room for peace, silence, serenity.
Those feelings are natural and they do not need to distract you from reaching your objective. Keep remembering your ultimate objective and don't lose focus...
I do not think you will miss the Jyke and Mr Hyde syndrome. Take all the chances you are given now, you may not be given another chance. You got to take it.
Acting nice for a while does not make up for anything really. Probably he senses you are changing and moving forward. Do not fall for the trap. You deserve something different and you know it is just a matter of time when Mr Hyde takes over again.
I am learning even if I feel guilt, pain, anger, resentment, sadness, envy, jealousy or everything at the same time, these feelings are just feelings and one day they will change and I will feel something else. Perhaps making room for peace, silence, serenity.
Those feelings are natural and they do not need to distract you from reaching your objective. Keep remembering your ultimate objective and don't lose focus...
I do not think you will miss the Jyke and Mr Hyde syndrome. Take all the chances you are given now, you may not be given another chance. You got to take it.
Acting nice for a while does not make up for anything really. Probably he senses you are changing and moving forward. Do not fall for the trap. You deserve something different and you know it is just a matter of time when Mr Hyde takes over again.
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
Brundle,
A little perspective from the other side of the fence. I'm a recovered alcoholic. I remember talking to my ex-wife a couple years after I got sober. She was expressing a little sadness, or maybe even some regret about the death of our relationship. She had made a fast exit with serving me divorce papers and a no contact order out of the blue. I went to work one morning and couldn't go home that night. At the time, it seemed harsh.
But, on hearing her express a little regret, I shared my view of that situation with her. I explained that it was like living in a room filled with running chainsaws. And she kept trying to live in that room, walking around avoiding the chainsaws. And she kept getting hit by them. It comes down to survival. Those chainsaws were going to cut her up, and she either needed to leave the room or get rid of the saws.
It left her with some uncomfortable and unresolved feelings about the relationship, but at the time, it was truly survival for her. No one can live under those conditions. Get out of the room that's causing all the damage, and then you can look at the issues of loss and grief.
A little perspective from the other side of the fence. I'm a recovered alcoholic. I remember talking to my ex-wife a couple years after I got sober. She was expressing a little sadness, or maybe even some regret about the death of our relationship. She had made a fast exit with serving me divorce papers and a no contact order out of the blue. I went to work one morning and couldn't go home that night. At the time, it seemed harsh.
But, on hearing her express a little regret, I shared my view of that situation with her. I explained that it was like living in a room filled with running chainsaws. And she kept trying to live in that room, walking around avoiding the chainsaws. And she kept getting hit by them. It comes down to survival. Those chainsaws were going to cut her up, and she either needed to leave the room or get rid of the saws.
It left her with some uncomfortable and unresolved feelings about the relationship, but at the time, it was truly survival for her. No one can live under those conditions. Get out of the room that's causing all the damage, and then you can look at the issues of loss and grief.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: back from the brink
Posts: 457
well Brundle, perhaps you haven't had "enough" yet.
It's best when moving forward to cut all ties, don't look back - but forward.
If you are still hearing that tiny voice in your heart that says "stay" - my advice is to stuff it. But, I speak from further down the road, and my view has cleared considerably.
I sure know what you are feeling, if that is worth anything.
It's best when moving forward to cut all ties, don't look back - but forward.
If you are still hearing that tiny voice in your heart that says "stay" - my advice is to stuff it. But, I speak from further down the road, and my view has cleared considerably.
I sure know what you are feeling, if that is worth anything.
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Keith
I see thing pretty much the same way, except what used to be my husband is now a brain eating Zombie (and yes I came up with this long before the movie) He looks like my husband and I see him stumbling around in the house and go to comfort him but he swipes at me with dirty claws and if I don't get away, he'll really hurt me. Even eat my brain.
The chainsaws are a beautiful image.
I shared my view of that situation with her. I explained that it was like living in a room filled with running chainsaws. And she kept trying to live in that room, walking around avoiding the chainsaws. And she kept getting hit by them. It comes down to survival. Those chainsaws were going to cut her up, and she either needed to leave the room or get rid of the saws.
The chainsaws are a beautiful image.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
Brundle- It is perfectly natural to second-guess your decision -- it would be weird not to! Your posts sometimes broke my heart hearing of the abuse you had to take. Please go back and read them...I think you'll find yourself in the proper frame of mind once again. Whether you go or stay, we all want you just to have peace of mind and a rich, full life. (((Hugs)))
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Brundle,
We second guess our second guesses, that's a symptom of our dysfunction. It's okay to feel guilty, especially if you can figure out why you're feeling that way. Is it because you're a raging codie? Is it really sadness that you're interpreting as guilt? Is it guilt over the vows you took seriously, but which were never meant to enslave us into abuse?
Just let it flow through, and out. There are brighter days ahead.
We second guess our second guesses, that's a symptom of our dysfunction. It's okay to feel guilty, especially if you can figure out why you're feeling that way. Is it because you're a raging codie? Is it really sadness that you're interpreting as guilt? Is it guilt over the vows you took seriously, but which were never meant to enslave us into abuse?
Just let it flow through, and out. There are brighter days ahead.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Someplace USA
Posts: 415
Still Waters
Thanks,
I'm sure it's a raging codie thing!!! LOL!! love that!
It's guilt over leaving my husband; even though I know that guy doesn't live in the shell of a man I live with. I know what he's done. I know he will do more of it. So I'm leaving. The rest of what I'm feeling I think is fear of the unknown (maybe).
I sometimes feel like there's two of me. The strong me; that says I'm gonna do this no matter what.
Then there's the codie me who is just freakin' out over the whole thing. Does that make sense?
Thanks,
I'm sure it's a raging codie thing!!! LOL!! love that!
It's guilt over leaving my husband; even though I know that guy doesn't live in the shell of a man I live with. I know what he's done. I know he will do more of it. So I'm leaving. The rest of what I'm feeling I think is fear of the unknown (maybe).
I sometimes feel like there's two of me. The strong me; that says I'm gonna do this no matter what.
Then there's the codie me who is just freakin' out over the whole thing. Does that make sense?
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Girl, you're doing just fine. I'm right where you are too, taking responsibility for my own damn life. Learning which voice will lead me where I want to go--which is to serenity and sanity.
Hell, we both prayed for help. It's come! Just not in the form we were initially asking for.
I just posted a second blog that talks about my two voices and what happens when I don't listen to fear. What we think (or hear) doesn't have to dictate what we do. The impulsivity of this disease is the kicker for me. If I keep my anxiety down to a minimum, I'm less likely to make decisions I regret.
Go have a great day. Please keep us updated on the new place.
Hell, we both prayed for help. It's come! Just not in the form we were initially asking for.
I just posted a second blog that talks about my two voices and what happens when I don't listen to fear. What we think (or hear) doesn't have to dictate what we do. The impulsivity of this disease is the kicker for me. If I keep my anxiety down to a minimum, I'm less likely to make decisions I regret.
Go have a great day. Please keep us updated on the new place.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Wizard Land Downunder
Posts: 2,615
Brundle,
You already know that his manner could, and probably will, change and old Hyde will be there again. It is a successful ploy used to keep the other person unsure, upset and bewildered, and have them wondering if they are doing the right thing or not.
You haven't come to this decision to leave without a lot of serious thought, and after you have gone thru 8 years of his drinking and all that has gone on.
Your parents may not be happy about divorce, neither are you, but you have lived the c**p, not them. It would have been some support if they had accepted that you know what you need to do for yourself and your children, but if they can't do that then so be it.
You have prayed for sobriety, recovery and change for him, but it looks like your HP sees you doing the recovery and changing your lives, because AH won't.
Let it go, and stick to your plans for a healthy life and the wellbeing of your kids.
That is what is important, the rest is just static noise in your ear. Ignore it.
God bless
You already know that his manner could, and probably will, change and old Hyde will be there again. It is a successful ploy used to keep the other person unsure, upset and bewildered, and have them wondering if they are doing the right thing or not.
You haven't come to this decision to leave without a lot of serious thought, and after you have gone thru 8 years of his drinking and all that has gone on.
Your parents may not be happy about divorce, neither are you, but you have lived the c**p, not them. It would have been some support if they had accepted that you know what you need to do for yourself and your children, but if they can't do that then so be it.
You have prayed for sobriety, recovery and change for him, but it looks like your HP sees you doing the recovery and changing your lives, because AH won't.
Let it go, and stick to your plans for a healthy life and the wellbeing of your kids.
That is what is important, the rest is just static noise in your ear. Ignore it.
God bless
Being Silent so I can Hear
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,521
Sure Brundle, I think we all have both sides - the strong side and the scared side. Fear of the unknown/change yet the conviction that we have to do something to save ourselves.
Normal, but not fun.
The guilt thing bothers me too, even though I know in my head that feeling guilty for leaving a man who is still abusive in any way he can find to be after almost a year is silly.
Normal, but not fun.
The guilt thing bothers me too, even though I know in my head that feeling guilty for leaving a man who is still abusive in any way he can find to be after almost a year is silly.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
Guilt
Hi Brundle, Sorry about the guilt. Here's how I understand it and have been able to get it out of my life. 
8 Hope this helps in some way.
Your feelings of guilt are not because you are codependent. The feelings are not an innate part of you; they originate with what you have become accustomed to by involving yourself in an alcoholic/addicted relationship for 8 long years.
Guilt is a mechanism that addicted and other sick persons use to control and manipulate others, even children. These people become very adept at it and are able to use it in subtle ways where we do not even recognize it when it is being used on us. We know we feel bad but we don't really know why. We feel this way for the simple fact that it is sickness.
When we have involved ourselves with a sick person who uses guilt (and other mechanisms of control) like this, we internalize it and even begin to use it ourselves to get what we want. Guilt is very effective at motivating us to take certain actions, getting us to second-guess ourselves, and to give in to the person who is trying to control us.
To manage or eliminate guilt, or any other feeling, first you must become aware of it and what it is doing to you. Which you have, and which you acknowledge is stressing you out.
(I personally don't believe it's the actual event (physically moving out) that is so difficult for you, is it? Nor do I think it is fear of the unknown. You sound like a very strong and capable woman to me. I mean you've birthed and are raising three children, right? First, if that sick guy was not in the picture at all, I imagine that you and the kids moving, with the aid of a few happy friends, would be kind of fun, maybe a new adventure. But nooooo, you've got this sick lump of cancer back there spoiling all the fun! And second, as a mom, you never know what is going to happen to your children and you face that EVERY day! How can you see yourself as fearful of the unknown?
You are not! You are a very brave woman!
Next, look inside for the reason you feel guilty. My guess is you feel guilty because subconsciously we think what he wants us to think, "Poor guy, look how sweet he is being right now and here I am dumping him. If he were just mean to me, I wouldn't need to feel guilty about leaving because then I'd have a valid excuse to leave. He is going to feel so bad when I take the kids and leave. And I don't like to make other people feel bad."
Next, look for the TRUTH beyond the guilt:
(1) You do not need an excuse to leave. We do not need to make the decisions about our own lives and those of our children based on someone else's behavior, bad or good.
(2) How he feels is up to HIM. You cannot MAKE someone else feel bad; everyone chooses and has the ability to control their own feelings.
(3) Neither are you dumping him. You have stuck it out this long and asked him to address his own issues and he has chosen not to. You are simply choosing health for yourself and your children.
Of course these are just my assumptions. You may have other thoughts going on behind your guilt.
I know it feels like there are two of you, but there really aren't. The strong you is the remnants of health that you have remaining after these last 8 years. The "codie" you is the remnant of the sickness that you have been mired in for these last 8 years. Once you get AWAY from the addicted person and the sickness he lives in the "strong" you will be there ALL the time. This is not permanent. Your inner person is not a "codie" -- your ways of thinking are codependent. Sounds like semantics, I know, but this is not semantics. The relationship between you and the addict is codependent. If you get yourself in a healthy relationship, there is no NEED to think or behave in codependent ways.
Like my Dad always says, Keep On Keepin' On..
<--Here's a picture of you and the kids having fun. You can do this!
8 Hope this helps in some way. Your feelings of guilt are not because you are codependent. The feelings are not an innate part of you; they originate with what you have become accustomed to by involving yourself in an alcoholic/addicted relationship for 8 long years.
Guilt is a mechanism that addicted and other sick persons use to control and manipulate others, even children. These people become very adept at it and are able to use it in subtle ways where we do not even recognize it when it is being used on us. We know we feel bad but we don't really know why. We feel this way for the simple fact that it is sickness.
When we have involved ourselves with a sick person who uses guilt (and other mechanisms of control) like this, we internalize it and even begin to use it ourselves to get what we want. Guilt is very effective at motivating us to take certain actions, getting us to second-guess ourselves, and to give in to the person who is trying to control us.
To manage or eliminate guilt, or any other feeling, first you must become aware of it and what it is doing to you. Which you have, and which you acknowledge is stressing you out.
(I personally don't believe it's the actual event (physically moving out) that is so difficult for you, is it? Nor do I think it is fear of the unknown. You sound like a very strong and capable woman to me. I mean you've birthed and are raising three children, right? First, if that sick guy was not in the picture at all, I imagine that you and the kids moving, with the aid of a few happy friends, would be kind of fun, maybe a new adventure. But nooooo, you've got this sick lump of cancer back there spoiling all the fun! And second, as a mom, you never know what is going to happen to your children and you face that EVERY day! How can you see yourself as fearful of the unknown?
You are not! You are a very brave woman!
Next, look inside for the reason you feel guilty. My guess is you feel guilty because subconsciously we think what he wants us to think, "Poor guy, look how sweet he is being right now and here I am dumping him. If he were just mean to me, I wouldn't need to feel guilty about leaving because then I'd have a valid excuse to leave. He is going to feel so bad when I take the kids and leave. And I don't like to make other people feel bad."
Next, look for the TRUTH beyond the guilt:
(1) You do not need an excuse to leave. We do not need to make the decisions about our own lives and those of our children based on someone else's behavior, bad or good.
(2) How he feels is up to HIM. You cannot MAKE someone else feel bad; everyone chooses and has the ability to control their own feelings.
(3) Neither are you dumping him. You have stuck it out this long and asked him to address his own issues and he has chosen not to. You are simply choosing health for yourself and your children.
Of course these are just my assumptions. You may have other thoughts going on behind your guilt.
I know it feels like there are two of you, but there really aren't. The strong you is the remnants of health that you have remaining after these last 8 years. The "codie" you is the remnant of the sickness that you have been mired in for these last 8 years. Once you get AWAY from the addicted person and the sickness he lives in the "strong" you will be there ALL the time. This is not permanent. Your inner person is not a "codie" -- your ways of thinking are codependent. Sounds like semantics, I know, but this is not semantics. The relationship between you and the addict is codependent. If you get yourself in a healthy relationship, there is no NEED to think or behave in codependent ways.
Like my Dad always says, Keep On Keepin' On..
<--Here's a picture of you and the kids having fun. You can do this! Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Someplace USA
Posts: 415
Learn2Live
You live in my brain. Assume away. Yes to everything you wrote. You have my thoughts and motives down completely!
Even to the point of wanting my AH to be "bad".
Thank you! You put into words what I couldn't even put into a full clear thought!!!
You live in my brain. Assume away. Yes to everything you wrote. You have my thoughts and motives down completely!
Even to the point of wanting my AH to be "bad".
Thank you! You put into words what I couldn't even put into a full clear thought!!!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Hi,
I know your guilt well. Still get guilty feelings now and then about the ex despite all the cruel crap. I think the important thing is that you make choices that are best for you in the long run, not react to those guilty feelings.
Take Care
I know your guilt well. Still get guilty feelings now and then about the ex despite all the cruel crap. I think the important thing is that you make choices that are best for you in the long run, not react to those guilty feelings.
Take Care
1 Corinthians 13:1-13 love
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL
Posts: 435
Brundle,
About the parents , as I recall christians who have opinions on divorce, them believing you don't have grounds, the reason they don't want you to divorce?
The book NOt Under Bondage might persuade them to move their position or at least have a serious clue to yours.
In general, when i reach a point with other christians of disagreement on what is a righteous decision or behavior , I gently remind them that my own conscience is enough to deal with in light of God and i don't need to take on theirs too. I explain it clearly, it goes something like this, "I know and stand before a greater Judge then you." Not all positions, opinions and advice by godly people is right, and their brand of comfort can suck ! per the book of Job :-)
What is going through your head? WhY do you feel guilty for divorcing him? Do you feel guilty because you are concerned you might actually be guilty of doing something that is wrong ( a conscience issue) or because of cody thinking? Just thinking, is it possible you might also be taking on the weight of people like your parents who are judging you as guilty if you get a divorce? If he was being mean instead of nice would it change you conscience or only your feelings of guilt?
Think about this: If you feel guilty because he is being nice what do you feel guilty about? ( him being nice? :-) ... smile and enjoy it while it last. From what you have told us here it doesn't last for long. Hopefully for you and the kids daily comfort and enjoyment it will last longer then usual. I wouldn't feel guilty about it
love tammy
ps; i got my motorcycle ride :-)
About the parents , as I recall christians who have opinions on divorce, them believing you don't have grounds, the reason they don't want you to divorce?
The book NOt Under Bondage might persuade them to move their position or at least have a serious clue to yours.
In general, when i reach a point with other christians of disagreement on what is a righteous decision or behavior , I gently remind them that my own conscience is enough to deal with in light of God and i don't need to take on theirs too. I explain it clearly, it goes something like this, "I know and stand before a greater Judge then you." Not all positions, opinions and advice by godly people is right, and their brand of comfort can suck ! per the book of Job :-)
What is going through your head? WhY do you feel guilty for divorcing him? Do you feel guilty because you are concerned you might actually be guilty of doing something that is wrong ( a conscience issue) or because of cody thinking? Just thinking, is it possible you might also be taking on the weight of people like your parents who are judging you as guilty if you get a divorce? If he was being mean instead of nice would it change you conscience or only your feelings of guilt?
Think about this: If you feel guilty because he is being nice what do you feel guilty about? ( him being nice? :-) ... smile and enjoy it while it last. From what you have told us here it doesn't last for long. Hopefully for you and the kids daily comfort and enjoyment it will last longer then usual. I wouldn't feel guilty about it
love tammy
ps; i got my motorcycle ride :-)
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