mermaidgirl

I realize guilt isn't a good partner for a person with (recovering) codie bhaviors...however I need to own what I did.

A few of you know the behaviors with my RAH (was not totally in recovery-just sober). He's been out of job for the better part of 18 months and he has lied to me for the entire marriage. I did not know he was an alcoholic when we married 7 years ago; the discovery was traumatic for me-but I decided to stay anyways.

Things between us have been hard-especially in August-and the more detached I became with love-the more healing I experience; and so it goes.

Eight months ago I was approached by a good friend of ours-an attraction was there between both of us. His move coincided with my RAH's admission he had not held back funds from some 1099 work he did in 2008 and we owed $7K in taxes (I haven't paid any in 12 years) AND he was fired from his job. So-I threw caution to the wind and flirted back, exchanging only emails. WE had lunch a couple of times-no sex. We both agreed to end it because it was just wrong; acknowledged if things were different, then things would be different.

Two weeks ago, the spouse of this guy called MY RAH; because she found the emails. My RAH was furious, as I would be too. But, (and here is the good BUT), he realized that he must have pushed me away that much because he said he knows I would never hurt anyone-and this is true. Every 72 hours, however...he brings it up and throws it in my face. All I can think of when he does that is...I've had 7 years of a lying, decietful spouse on my hands...and it could have been much worse.

I consider everyone here an inner circle that I have nowhere else (other than my Al-Anon folks and it's difficult to get to my favorite group). I felt I needed to just say-boy, Mermaidgirl-you f**d this one up...but, with the help of the program...I am forgiving myself. I only hope that my RAH forgive me and realizes how far down we are and we heal. There are glimmers of hope, but every 72 hours...the scab gets picked off by him.

Thanks for listening; thanks for sharing-

daisyjen

Hi Mermaid,
I know what you are feeling right now. Ive been there...

After 14 1/2 yrs of marriage to a drunk, I felt the effects of another mans interest in me and responded. It was via the computer, but none the less, it was wrong. There were what-ifs between us and then my husband quit drinking. I continued the flirting and after a year, my RAH found out, and it ended. He never did and still hasnt been the person he needs to be. He kinda understands the reasons but still it hurts him to the core that I could do that. I NEVER even looked at a man prior to that, 100% faithful. Could he say that? No, hes a flirt, but also never emotionally cheated in the way I did.

Its been a yr and a half since it ended and he is still picking off the scabs... Still brings it up, even in front of the kids. I have forgiven him for all the years I suffered at the hands of his disease, but one wrong doing on my part cant be put behind us. He keeps saying, once a cheater, always a cheater.

Have you tried counseling? We have, but it didnt seem to sink in and I was harrassed after every session, so we quit. Maybe it will work for you!! Good luck!

mermaidgirl

Thanks for your words, Daisy. So far (holding my breath) it seems that he is finally realizing what he has pushed me to. We are both in counseling-he attends AA. I came home today (we have separate counseling sessions on Saturday), and he told me he has been an absolute a-hole...for a very long time to me. He doesn't know why I stayed and he is determined to win me back. He said that's why he does 150 situps a day .

This is the only incident that has hit him hard and brough him up to speed, if you will. I told him I hope he means what he says...he said he totally understands why I would doubt his words, but he is determined to make me want him again-and no other.

All I can say for you is-if you could do it over again-would you have flirted? My counselor asked me this today-and I honestly cannot say I wouldn't change anything. It was crossing a line; but I was truly pushed to a point where I had nothing to lose and my RAH had made choices to consistently push me out of the picture for 7 years...no, I don't think I would have changed my choices. I hope things work out for you-

Learn2Live

Hi Mermaid. Just a few questions for you to ponder: Where is your guilt coming from? Have you fully taken ownership of your behavior?

mermaidgirl

Well L2L...funny you should ask! After a much needed session with my counselor yesterday, we went over the whole guilt issue again. Guilt is something I was raised with, unfortunately and so ownership can take me to many inappropriate levels. So, to answer your question-yes, I absolutely take ownership for my behavior and have admitted this to my RAH. And the guilt? I have taken too much ownership of that one. I am in a good place now, but it is just unfortunately that this is what it took...my counselor made a great comment yesterday. She said most growth happens during pain. So true.

ItsmeAlice

When we forgive it is really for ourselves to let go of the anger and resentment, not to free the other person of their guilt or remorse. That said, your guilt and remorse will not be relieved by him forgiving you. You have to deal with that on your own. He seems to be dealing with his guilt by redirecting the blame and bringing up what you've done at regular intervals.

It also seems that neither of you are in a place to forgive the other just yet.

Start by forgiving yourself for being human and making a mistake. Say your apologies and live your amends by not justifying poor judgement by the actions of others. (Two wrongs not making a right and all that). This will go a long way to lessening the effect of his picking at the subject for you.

You can try telling him you've decided to forgive yourself for what you've done and encourage him to forgive himself for the years of addiction and lies.

Maybe once you both feel less guilt, less remorse, and less shame you will stop acting out towards one another and truly forgive each other.

I wish you the best.

Alice

daisyjen

Mermaid-

Wow, thats a tough one.... tough because admitting to no regret makes me doubly wrong morally...

All I can say is that emotional affair saved me in a way. I was told so many lies for so long, I had very little happiness in my life, and my self esteem was nil. I was desperate in so many ways.

It took many months for his affections to click on a light in me, but eventually, it did. And I saw that I was worthy of much more that I was receiving in my marriage. I saw that I did not HAVE to live that way. I saw that in the eyes of another man that I was beautiful, inside and out. I saw that I could enjoy waking up in the morning, beginning a new day.... I saw that I had choices...

My husband noticed the change in me and got sober. All the begging, pleading, crying, manipulating, tantrums did nothing to motivate him. Me, standing up for myself, gaining confidence and looking reality in the eyes got him moving towards sobriety...

Are we completely healthy yet? NO! But in time, itll come. I have to focus on me and stop zoning in on his stuff. Will we make it thru together? I really dont know what I want still....

Cowgirl1265

You got something you needed from your emotional affair, clearly. Whether it was the right thing to do or not, it is done and all that can be done is to move on. But I just want you to check your thinking on this.

You did not CAUSE your husband's addiction. You cannot CONTROL his addiction and you cannot CURE it.

YOU CANNOT CURE IT.

YOU did not make him want to be sober. His fear of losing you made him want to be sober.

In the long run, if the involvement you had with this other man helped you and your husband to have some realizations about your own lives and your marriage that helped you each to grow in your relationship with one another, then wonderful. But I will tell you as someone who has been on the other side of the equation, having a husband who had an internet affair, mostly affairs aren't wonderful. They are poisonous and hurtful to the person on the other side. If my husband tried ever in front of me to justify that his affair was somehow good for our marriage? Pardon me, but I'd kick him in the nuts.

I'm going to stop here, I don't want to take your inventory.

covington

In 20 years of being pretty much grown up and having experienced three long term relationships, I've never, not once, had any urge to cheat on any other partner.

Then again, no other partners were as disinterested in being polite, and disinterested in sex because they were drunk almost every single night. Really, hard as it was for me to face it, those aren't attractive characteristics in a partner. And the fact that he put on about 50 pounds sitting down watching movies drinking beer? Not really attractive. The fact that he didn't want to go outside and *do* anything ever? Hmn. Ugh. As much as I want to blame him for me feeling bored in the relationship, I became boring if I chose to sit there. I became sedentary. I used to have some muscles, they sort of melted away due to lack of activity.

It can be refreshing for someone else to think you're attractive. And to be honest, any guilt I might feel about being attracted to someone else was more than erased by the fact that he was way more attracted to the alcohol than to me. Just my point of view.

. . . in my case this got me happy. It got me to realize I didn't need him. It got me to realize I could have a life away from him. If I wanted to. It made me realize my self esteem could rebound, no matter what he decided to do with his weekends.

daisyjen

I never said I cured his alcoholism, Im not that powerful. I meant the change of my state of mind clicked something in him and he searched for his own cure( he asked for GODS help and HE cured him).

I also never meant to infer that my internet affair was "good" for our marriage. It helped me wake up from despair. It had had a horrible effect on his trust in me, and without trust in a marriage, what do you really have?? But, oh, Ive been "kicked in the nuts" enough throughout our marriagebecause of his drinking, Ive gotten used to it.

mermaidgirl

without him doing anything different, do you "want" this man in your life? i'm curious what it is he can do to WIN you back? that sounds suspiciously like a contest...........perhaps it is a wake up call. but does it CHANGE anything for you?

Thank you all for the discussion-as difficult as this topic is. And, I apologize for not updating sooner-but the week just got away from me. To answer some of the conjecture...without him doing anything different, I would say the relationship would be doomed. And I say this, because I am working on myself and that is what I believe he feels is "different". It isn't this other dude at all-it's the fact that I have been therapy for almost a year and a half, been working and understand myself better, attending Al-Anon meetings and coming to an understanding of how I landed up here, in this relationship.

Ironically, I do not look at this situation as him "winning" me back at all. He has known all along what it will take to engage his family in his life and that is to work his recovery from ALL angles-something he was not doing consistently. When he works it-I want to be nowhere but with him. When he isn't working it-no one can stand to be around him (hate to say it-but it's the "dry drunk" phenomena).

When I got back from my counseling appointment last week I was again surprised by him. (he goes to his AA meetings on Saturday and then individual counseling) I was expecting him to start grinding me into the ground again...but he didn't. He said he takes responsibility for his part in this whole thing...and that he now realizes that back in Jan/Feb of this year I must have been at the end of my rope...because that was when he came to a counseling session with me, but it was a total disaster. He said he owed me an apology as well as my counselor because he was such an a**hole and only cared about himself...he says he now sees what his behavior could have pushed me to do. This is what I call a recovering alcoholic.

We take it-one day at a time. The difference is-I think he knows the tipping point-even if I couldn't put it into words. And, when I tried to let him know over and over again-it held no weight. For some reason-this was HIS tipping point.

Sorry this is long...but I hope it helps someone out there~

MeHandle

The consequence to abandoning your wife to alcohol: she most likely is weakened to fall too temptation from the other sex.

He owns something of this too.