Lotus2009

Hi all,

I know it's no use trying to understand A's behavior... BUT why do you think some A's cheat as soon as there are problems?

Are they just selfish and don't care about anybody but them, are they trying to make themselves feel better about themselves in times of trouble (i.e. boost their self-esteem), is this something that they will stop once sober...?

Just found out a few things... He hasn't cheated yet (since we've gotten married), but is trying (unsuccessfully so far). I'm so angry I'm shaking!!! I really have to hold myself back not to go home today and scream at him (that's all I want to do right now - but wouldn't be any use, since he's been drinking since sunday night and prob. won't stop until he has to go to work tomorrow). Up to today, I really thought he loves me - now I'm questioning that - who would do something like that to someone they loved!?
.

Astro

I think there are so many answers to this, I'll just share my experience as an alcoholic.

I loved my spouse, or at least as much as I was capable of. I loved alcohol more though, and bringing home flowers and saying "I love you" doesn't cut it for very long, it sounds like a broken record to go along with all the lies and broken promises.

I was looking for someone to love, accept, and understand me as I was, and it would've been nice to have a drinking partner too. It wasn't only when our relationship was "in times of trouble" or there were problems, it's because I was looking for those things from my partner and wasn't getting them. So while I never was successful at anything other than an emotional affair, yes it was exciting and it boosted my self-esteem to have someone else notice me and pay attention to me. When I sobered up and she demanded a divorce, I wanted those things even more, I was looking for the next woman who would come along and "fix me up".

Marriages obviously take two people though, and there are two sides to every story. When my ex wasn't getting the love she wanted from me anymore, she found it in the arms of co-workers. So I guess we both could ask, who would do something like that to someone they loved!?

But all of this begs the question: Why would anyone want to be with someone who's unfaithful and can't honor a commitment to a relationship? It's been incredibly freeing to move on and learn (slowly and sometimes painfully) how to have a healthy relationship.

transformyself

I"m an investigative journalist. I thought I could figure this out.

I snooped, I prayed, I begged, I threatened. I interviewed people. I read on the internet. He lied and drank and was charming and playful with our kids and i was the problem. He seduced me and ignored me and re-wrote our history and made me believe I was imagining things and hung up on me. He treated me like crap and even though I was outraged that he did so, I stayed right there and tried to figure out what he was doing and why.


April 2008 I caught him bringing his drunk girlfriend into our home and thew him out for 5 months and he lived with her and when I filed for divorce he wanted to come home so I took him back and believed his lies that we would finally be happy.

But eventually I would misbehave. I was damaged, very damaged and wanted reassurance. He would either a) give it to me once then snap at me the next time I had problems and wanted to talk about them or b) accuse me of ruining everything. Why didn't I just shut the hell up and let him drink and do what he wanted. Why did I have to ruin everything. He was happy if I was happy, so why wasn't I happy?

My husband has been waking me up out of a dead sleep, drunk, and telling me he was divorcing me since February. I would cry and follow him and try to get him to understnad that if we only worked harder, if he just helped me heal, we would be happy together. He would bully me and I would shut my mouth and be good for awhile. Just don't leave me.

In May he went to a work party where she was and talked to her. I had been asking him for three weeks if I should get a sitter to go with him and he raged at me, "She'll be there, we can't go because you won't let go of the past!" then the day of the party, he came home from work, took a shower and left to go to the party. I cried, I called him screaming, He didn't care. And he came home the next day and told me he had apologized to her for all "the drama" with me.

I tried to leave him then and couldn't. Rented a room and never spent a night there. I was inconsolable and out of my mind with grief. How had my life become such a nightmare? Still, I wouldn't let go. Wouldn't walk away. I was terrified he would go to her. She drinks more than he does. She has no kids and devoted her every waking moment to his happiness. I know, I read the love notes between them.

By June our house was foreclosed. He will drink every penny. Suck up everything until there is no more. I came up with a crazy scheme to commit to each other for a year, find a place to move and help our kids. He agreed.

I found a place, reserved a truck and two days later caught him texting her again.

I was tricked into leaving him by my HP. I even tried to not move out, to stay there with him. He was still drinking and raging at me. Everything was my fault, his affair, he couldn't talk to me because he was too afraid of my reaction, the house was a pit and it was all my fault.

I got the truck and told myself I would just move stuff but stay with him.

That night, he got drunker and drunker and we faught and he came in and said, "I;m taking off my wedding ring and divorcing you." I laid there and stared at him. He left the room and for the first time I didn't follow him crying. Instead I repeated the following four sentences

I am leaving you now
It is my choice.
I am free of you and your toxic behavior.
This is all for my greater good.

And I fell asleep, for the first time, without being triggered into that horrific state of abandoment and shame and fear.

I woke up the next morning, put on my shoes and loaded that truck. He did his usual apology thing, asking if I was ok. I was beeming. "I'm great," I told him. "Will you hold the door for me?"

Sept 2 I moved, with the kids, into the house I rented thinking we would live here as a family. And we do. We are happier, I am happier, than I think i have ever been. I escaped. Me and the kids escaped.

Your husband doesn't love you Lotus. He loves drinking. If he cheats, he won't love that other woman either. He can't.

Cowgirl1265

I don't think it's just A's - I think cheating transcends addiction and is a hallmark of unhealthy self-love and relationship behavior.

I went through this with my mentally ill H, twice. Here is what I found notable:

1. We were not good at communicating in healthy ways. He was not good at talking about his needs, and when he did manage to talk about them (usually in non-productive ways) I was not good at listening to them. Like many codependents, we each heard a "need" as "criticism."

2. He is uncomfortable with dealing with his own feelings. He can't just sit on a feeling and work it through - he has to act on it. Its why addicts become addicts - they drink or drug over the discomfort of their feelings. It becomes such a habit, they do the same thing with feelings in relationships. Its easier and faster to find another person to pretend with than to take the time and discomfort to work through your issues with your partner.

3. He is narcissistic. Even though he knew it was wrong, his need to gratify self was more urgent than his wanting to be a family or follow his own moral code.

I'm sure there are a million more factors involved, but off the top of my head, these are what stood out to me from his internet affairs.

sailorjohn

I can't answer that question specifically, but my own experience, I think my ex cheats because she has some very serious issues related to her own sexuality, likely have nothing to do directly with her own alcoholism/addiction.

My be the case with the a in your life, I think we give men, for example, too much credit for being pigs, or having too much testosterone, and don't look at that simple question, why would someone engage in that sort of unhealthy behavior?

Not letting them off the hook, mind you, cheating is probably at the top of my list for deal breaking, and I'm not claiming a saint either, I fully recognize how corrosive it is to trust in a relationship, and simply dangerous for the 'victim' and 'perpetrator'.

brundle

Because WE (the sober partner) don't understand THEM. Usually the other person is the one who they can complain about US to. Remember they never see themselves as the guilty one. They are always misunderstood.

It's been my experiance that this other person usually buys into all that crap and the A can whine and cry the blues to them. I've heard "this other person understands me." or better "appreciates me".

I've been married to two addicts and it always comes down to wanting no responsibility and it's never their fault. They tend to be selfish and immature. Using comes first followed closely behind doing what feels good (what they want). They hate getting into "trouble"; kind of like a little kid. So they lie; a lot. But most of the time what they want out weighs good sense; and what's good for the family.

Sorry if this sounds harsh; I've got 15 total years in and at this point I think it's kind of black and white if they are abusing any kind of substance...

Ago

alcoholism =/= cheating

It can exasperate the behavior but I have been cheated on more by codies then alcoholics, that's just my experience, either one can become a love addict of a sort, and both are capable of cheating, although in all fairness I must say that's because I date codies like many of you date alcoholics

Alcoholism and cheating can absolutely go hand in hand, and they are both ways in which someone is trying to not feel their feelings, trying to escape, trying to get needs met.

Cheating is it's own deal, it's own way to try to "fix" someones insides with outside stuff, it shares a lot in common with alcoholism and relationship addiction, in that it's a sick person desperately trying to fill a void inside them, and "the answer" becomes the problem.

I am not getting my needs met and must look to somewhere else, and then, like all drugs, it stops working and they must move on the next one, and the next one, never realizing the unfulfillment lies within.

To understand infidelity I had to research it and realize I was dealing with an entirely new beast

There is more information about cheating then I can comfortably share in this thread although to me Cowgirls hit a few important points.

Zak68

Well this is what my AW had to say.

It started last August. He was my best friend. I told him all my struggles with her. It started with emails directly to her and not the group. "Hey. How are you today?" One thing led to another and they met for lunch. Then he asked her to his office. They did it there but were so nervous (why not? they just cheated on their spouses and on good friends) so they set up a meeting the next day.

She worked in commercial real estate so she would get keys to listings that were empty and they would do lunch and each other there. She said it was exciting and adventerous, it was like her second addiction. The high she would get thinking of meeting him, the forbidden sex. Then an hour later she was in the restroom dry heaving from the guilt. Yet, she would go back again and again.

It all started though with him telling her she wasn't an alcoholic compared to others. She wanted to hear that since all I did was tell her she needed help.
He told her she was smart, successful, sexy and what man wouldn't want her. I told her that too but after 16 years of me telling her that she stopped believing me.

transformyself

Zak: My AH had an affair partner that drank more than he did, and would never ever ask him to sober up. I was demanding it.

LaTeeDa

I believe in many cases alcohol gets too much credit/blame. Not all alcoholics are cheaters, and not all cheaters are alcoholics. Same with abuse. Some people just behave badly. Often, we prefer to believe the behavior is caused by the alcohol because its less uncomfortable that believing we chose the wrong person to be a partner in life. My spouse never cheated (that I know of), but it was one of the most difficult things I ever had to do when I admitted to myself that I picked the wrong guy.

Alcohol or not, cheating or not. I picked someone who didn't share my goals and ideals. And I couldn't change him into someone who did.

L

Learn2Live

People who cheat "aren't there yet." (That's not to say they're on their way or that they'll EVER get there.) But mature, committed, healthy adults can control themselves, despite their urges. I personally have never been a cheater but have had many partners, alcoholic/addicted AND not, who have cheated on me.

As Anvil showed, they cheat for many reasons. Alcohol is very frequently a "starter drug," which lowers your inhibitions and therefore opens you up to even more and worse bad behavior.

But if we keep asking the question "Why do alcoholics cheat?" we blame the alcohol. When there really is no one and nothing to blame in the first place.

Lord knows I know how you feel and I don't ever want to feel it again. But, I personally have found that I am more AFRAID of the feelings it might cause if the person does cheat on me, than the feelings I have when it actually happens. Go figure. Must be my drama.

It makes no sense because NOTHING they do makes sense from our perspective.

Cowgirl1265

I'm not really at that step yet. But something someone posted on another thread about reading an article on abuse and giving it to their AH had me thinking. I googled 'characteristics of abuse' and looked at one article I found. It had examples of abuse categorized in different areas. Yes, I recognized several things that my mentally ill husband has done to me frequently over the years. But you know what else I found? A lot of stuff my codie self has done to HIM. Equally. Tit for tat. My codependent behavior was JUST AS ABUSIVE as his.

I'm appalled at myself. Horrified, disgusted. When I get to the point where I'm ready to make amends, I have a lot to make amends for.

Ugh. I'm so grateful my HP is leading me to become well.

brundle

I think many of us here with alcoholic partners could find reasons to cheat. I know I could in fact my list is so long it could roll out the door. I choose not to; just like I choose not to drink (be an alcoholic). I also had to pull myself together and choose not to abuse my pain pills. We all have choices to make.

So often we ask why does someone do what they do? It all comes down to choice. I think LaTeeDa maybe onto something that we are always blaming the alcohol. When maybe we just pick either not so nice people who make lots of wrong choices. I often think why wouldn't they keep making wrong choices? How often did I look the other way when my AH did something wrong? Or did I allow the bar to lower?

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome. I know for myself; years ago I would really lie to myself and act like each "good time" we had was going to last. Deep down I knew they where coming shorter and shorter.

For me it's come to: hey I wouldn't make that choice or hurt someone that way. So if my partner is going to behave in a dealbreaker way and not stop I need to leave. I think you all know we are not talking about cap off the tooth paste stuff. I'm not asking 'why?' anymore. There is no why; you either act right or wrong. e.i...My AH wants to be a drunk...fine...but not with me around!

Learn2Live

Gosh Lavash, your story sounds so familiar to my stomach. Not sure about insecure, but definitely disgusting behavior.

Learn2Live

Lavash,

I know exactly what you are thinking and feeling and for me it is a BIG TRAP. For me I have discovered that it is my overdeveloped sense of responsibility for OTHER people's feelings and my habit of feeling sorry for people. At the same time, I NEGLECT and IGNORE my own feelings and focus on what I believe are other people's "problems". Recipe for DISASTER, time and time again.

I have had to force myself to HONOR other people in ways I am unaccustomed to. For instance, I have to honor the alcoholics, addicts and other people in my life by accepting that they know best how to live their own lives. When we think of and treat other people as though they are children who cannot direct their own lives, find their own higher power, and make their own choices, we are trying to control them in order to satisfy our OWN needs.

You are not a mind reader and it is dangerous to your own health to continue to try to be. You cannot assume that just because he doesn't want someone else using his grill means he is hurting. Hate to stereotype but knowing men, he's probably not hurt, just jealous. There is a big difference. Either way, for you to react to what you think his feelings are is not good for you. Trust that he is mature enough, despite everything you have seen in him, to deal with his own feelings and insecurities BY HIMSELF. If he doesn't, that is HIS problem. It only becomes YOUR problem if you choose to continue to have him in his life. One year sober, and in recovery, or not, it takes a LONG time and A LOT of hard work for a person to work through what they need to work through.

Focus on you and your life and what is healthy for you. Become selfish about who you "care" for because I'm willing to bet a new car that you have an unhealthy sense of what it means to care for others. At least I do.

Take care. Be good to yourself.

MissFixit

Don't know why people cheat, other than they are looking to fill themselves up with something external. They feel bad about themselves. My ex cheated on me and it has taken me almost a year to accept it and be okay without him.

Zak68

My AW and I are separated now. She cheated on me and asked me while we are apart if I will see other women. I told her that was not my goal. I am not doing this to see other people but the thought did cross my mind.

She has been my only serious relationship and only the third woman I have slept with. Part of me really wonders if I stay because I don't know any better. I was and still am a shy person at heart and meeting women was never my thing. In a way I think I owe it to myself to see what else is out there.

I just don't know. For now I will just live my life and see what crosses my path.

Bohn05

Yes my alcoholic financee was on a dating website while making plans for me to give up my job of 24 years and house and move down to Baltimore with him. Even denied emailing and talking to women until I figured out his password and saw the proof. He acts like he has a right to. He was just having some fun he told me. Well what about the people he is hurting--me and the women he is emailing. I told him he resembles a sociopath--no feelings and he got really mad. He told me I should not be such a "snoop dog" and if I was around more he would not have to do this? Can't believe that rationale even flies with him but apparently it does. Sometimes I think maybe alcoholics just do have these characters flaws and issues and we blame alcohol. He did cheat on his ex wife also and I guess he was an alcoholic at that point also??? I guess what I am saying is I am tired of blaming alcohol and myself for his character flaws--maybe he is just not a good person--alcohol or not???

Take care--better things are out there for us who truely care about other people!!!

MissFixit

Bohn,

Is he still your fiance? I hope not.